Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.

TIA.

On Sunday, 5 June 2016 14:06:37 UTC+1, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.

If you are going to be there the full term it is a lifetime's investment or 10.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:06:35 -0000 (UTC), R D S wrote:

I need to ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they
will check the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

And is at least the paperwork cost of actually purchasing the lease
included in the £120?

I have a sneaky feeling that this is one of those things that with a
little bit of research and checking of details you can DIY without
much difficulty.

Solicitors like to project the image it's difficult or full of traps
that you must employ and "expert". When it reality it's money for old
rope.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"R D S" wrote in message ...

Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.

TIA.

Start he
https://www.gov.uk/leasehold-propert...g-the-freehold

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:06:35 -0000 (UTC), R D S wrote:

I need to ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they
will check the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

And is at least the paperwork cost of actually purchasing the lease
included in the £120?

I have a sneaky feeling that this is one of those things that with a
little bit of research and checking of details you can DIY without
much difficulty.

except that when you buy a lease you are required to pay the selling party'
solicitors bill (subject to a test of reasonableness) and they don't need to
reciprocate in this diy approach

Having said that IIRC there is no statutory "right to buy" the lease of a
business property, if the freeholder doesn't want to sell it, you are
snookered

tim

"Richard" wrote in message
...
"R D S" wrote in message ...

Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.

TIA.

Start he
https://www.gov.uk/leasehold-propert...g-the-freehold

and then come back, because the property is neither a flat nor a house :-(

tim

On 05/06/2016 15:01, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:06:35 -0000 (UTC), R D S wrote:

I need to ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they
will check the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

And is at least the paperwork cost of actually purchasing the lease
included in the £120?


I think the £120 is for just asking if he can paint the back door blood
red etc. The lease is likely to cost 10s of thousands.





--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 05/06/2016 16:20, Tim... wrote:

"Richard" wrote in message
...
"R D S" wrote in message ...

Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.

TIA.

Start he
https://www.gov.uk/leasehold-propert...g-the-freehold

and then come back, because the property is neither a flat nor a house :-(

tim



Someone's awake

Also not clear to me if the OP holds a lease on the *whole* of the
property. If not, buying the freehold of the whole[1] means ending up
on other end of the process, whereupon £120 for dealing with letters
asking for agreement to drill holes through the wall to install a
thingummy-whatsit might seem scant recompense for the duties of being a
lessor.

[1] I'm assuming this is in England

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 05/06/16 17:56, Robin wrote:
On 05/06/2016 16:20, Tim... wrote:

"Richard" wrote in message
...
"R D S" wrote in message ...

Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.
So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.

Even at current low interest rates the ground rent income isn't worth
more than a few hundred pounds. And with 850 years to go the reversion
is worth nothing. So on the face of it the only value is in that ability
to charge £120 per fart.

€¦
Also not clear to me if the OP holds a lease on the *whole* of the
property. If not, buying the freehold of the whole[1] means ending up
on other end of the process, whereupon £120 for dealing with letters
asking for agreement to drill holes through the wall to install a
thingummy-whatsit might seem scant recompense for the duties of being a
lessor.

That is the big problem. Presumably the shop is only part of the
building, the freehold will the entire thing




[1] I'm assuming this is in England



--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 21:13:48 +0100, DJC wrote:

Even at current low interest rates the ground rent income isn't worth
more than a few hundred pounds.

£1.14/year and 850 years is £851.14 if anyone is still around to
collect it...

And with 850 years to go the reversion is worth nothing.

Yep.

So on the face of it the only value is in that ability to charge £120
per fart.

Or get what anybody is willing to pay...


--
Cheers
Dave.

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 05/06/2016 15:01, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:06:35 -0000 (UTC), R D S wrote:

I need to ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they
will check the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

And is at least the paperwork cost of actually purchasing the lease
included in the £120?


I think the £120 is for just asking if he can paint the back door blood
red etc. The lease is likely to cost 10s of thousands.

not with a GR of pennies and a term of 800 years

On 06/06/2016 01:15, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 21:13:48 +0100, DJC wrote:

Even at current low interest rates the ground rent income isn't worth
more than a few hundred pounds.

£1.14/year and 850 years is £851.14 if anyone is still around to
collect it...

And with 850 years to go the reversion is worth nothing.

Yep.

So on the face of it the only value is in that ability to charge £120
per fart.

Or get what anybody is willing to pay...



Or possibly to gain control over maintenance and repairs (depending on
how responsibility is split in the lease).



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

We bought the freehold of the first house we owned, if I recall it was 10x the ground rent which was £15 per annum at the time. Even with owning the freehold you may find restrictions in the form of covenants that limit the number of "farts" you are allowed. Our bungalow is freehold but the previous owner had to stump up a £400 "administration fee" to the original developer to add a conservatory due to the developer selling the property with restrictive covenants that gave him a say on what could or could not be built. Whilst these things are useful at the time of development and prevent householders constructing horrendous structures affecting the value of the properties, 40 years on its just a "nice little earner" and of course is something that can be passed on to descendants who probably do not know what it is all about but brings in a little income for basically doing nothing.

Richard

On 06/06/16 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:

ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.


As the OP is talking about a shop none of the usual advice re
residential property applies. In the common residential case the
legislation giving rights to enfranchisement together with restrictions
on what can be charged for 'management' make being the landlord more
trouble than it's worth. A landlord is therefore generally willing to
sell out and would rather come to a private arragement than be forced
down the statutory route.
http://www.lease-advice.org/






I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT *our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for 10
years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they will find
(as has already happened) any mention of freehold purchase will be
assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want to go
down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder - arguing
over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a starting point.
(Guess who pays for the freeholders surveyor ????!!!!). So you are
looking at having to spend some cash upfront.

This leaves a gap in the market for a class of "freehold consultants" who
offer to handle the negotiations for you. We were contacted by one who
claimed to be "in the area". Unfortunately the fact *he* came to *us*
meant he could never pass the smell test, and we never used him, despite
his helpfully reminding us of his existence.

Then one day - out of the blue - the doorbell rings. It was the
freeholder asking if we were interested in buying the freehold. We
chatted and a sum was agreed which seemed about right, so we got a
solicitor and bought it. SWMBO had previously spoken with him on the
phone, and I have to say he was as sleazy in person as she had described
him.

I also will never shake the feeling the freehold consultant and
freeholder were in collusion. Given the tortuous and opaque nature of the
process, it's easy to envisage a scheme whereby chummy boy pretends to
"negotiate" with the freeholder and get the grateful homeowner to cough
up over the odds without going through (and paying for) the surveyor
bunfight.



--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 06/06/16 01:15, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 21:13:48 +0100, DJC wrote:

Even at current low interest rates the ground rent income isn't worth
more than a few hundred pounds.

£1.14/year and 850 years is £851.14 if anyone is still around to
collect it...

Usually valued at the NPV of than £1.14 and whatever you guess the
long-term interest rate will be. So present value as an income stream
less than £200







And with 850 years to go the reversion is worth nothing.

Yep.

So on the face of it the only value is in that ability to charge £120
per fart.

Or get what anybody is willing to pay...




--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 06/06/16 09:40, Tricky Dicky wrote:
We bought the freehold of the first house we owned, if I recall it was 10x the ground rent which was £15 per annum at the time. Even with owning the freehold you may find restrictions in the form of covenants that limit the number of "farts" you are allowed. Our bungalow is freehold but the previous owner had to stump up a £400 "administration fee" to the original developer to add a conservatory due to the developer selling the property with restrictive covenants that gave him a say on what could or could not be built. Whilst these things are useful at the time of development and prevent householders constructing horrendous structures affecting the value of the properties, 40 years on its just a "nice little earner" and of course is something that can be passed on to descendants who probably do not know what it is all about but brings in a little income for basically doing nothing.


In cases like that you ignore the covenants and whait for someone to
challenge it.


--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 06/06/16 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT *our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for 10
years.

Did you ever take legal advice to see if that was enforceable?

I have a covenant that is ancient that says to build anything, I need to
write to the interested party's estate and enclose a fee of one guinea
(yes it's that old). My solicitor laughed and said "sod that" and "come
back later and take out some indemnity insurance for £60 in case it ever
shows up during a sale"

On 06/06/16 10:13, DJC wrote:
On 06/06/16 09:40, Tricky Dicky wrote:
We bought the freehold of the first house we owned, if I recall it was
10x the ground rent which was £15 per annum at the time. Even with
owning the freehold you may find restrictions in the form of covenants
that limit the number of "farts" you are allowed. Our bungalow is
freehold but the previous owner had to stump up a £400 "administration
fee" to the original developer to add a conservatory due to the
developer selling the property with restrictive covenants that gave
him a say on what could or could not be built. Whilst these things are
useful at the time of development and prevent householders
constructing horrendous structures affecting the value of the
properties, 40 years on its just a "nice little earner" and of course
is something that can be passed on to descendants who probably do not
know what it is all about but brings in a little income for basically
doing nothing.


In cases like that you ignore the covenants and whait for someone to
challenge it.



+1 - and take out indemnity insurance which is a one off tiny fee to
make it bullet proof.

"DJC" wrote in message ...
On 06/06/16 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:

ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.


As the OP is talking about a shop none of the usual advice re residential
property applies. In the common residential case the legislation giving
rights to enfranchisement together with restrictions on what can be
charged for 'management' make being the landlord more trouble than it's
worth. A landlord is therefore generally willing to sell out and would
rather come to a private arragement than be forced down the statutory
route.

not with 99 year leases

The reversion is a valuable property not to be sold on lightly

tim

On 06/06/2016 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT *our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for 10
years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they will find
(as has already happened) any mention of freehold purchase will be
assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want to go
down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder - arguing
over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a starting point.
(Guess who pays for the freeholders surveyor ????!!!!). So you are
looking at having to spend some cash upfront.

This leaves a gap in the market for a class of "freehold consultants" who
offer to handle the negotiations for you. We were contacted by one who
claimed to be "in the area". Unfortunately the fact *he* came to *us*
meant he could never pass the smell test, and we never used him, despite
his helpfully reminding us of his existence.

Then one day - out of the blue - the doorbell rings. It was the
freeholder asking if we were interested in buying the freehold. We
chatted and a sum was agreed which seemed about right, so we got a
solicitor and bought it. SWMBO had previously spoken with him on the
phone, and I have to say he was as sleazy in person as she had described
him.

I also will never shake the feeling the freehold consultant and
freeholder were in collusion. Given the tortuous and opaque nature of the
process, it's easy to envisage a scheme whereby chummy boy pretends to
"negotiate" with the freeholder and get the grateful homeowner to cough
up over the odds without going through (and paying for) the surveyor
bunfight.


There is a law that says the freehold has to be offered and at a maximum
rate of 22 times the ground rent. I don't recall the time scales that
the offer must be made within but its a few years IIRC.
This doesn't apply to commercial properties AFAIK.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/06/2016 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT *our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for 10
years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they will find
(as has already happened) any mention of freehold purchase will be
assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want to go
down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder - arguing
over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a starting point.
(Guess who pays for the freeholders surveyor ????!!!!). So you are
looking at having to spend some cash upfront.

This leaves a gap in the market for a class of "freehold consultants" who
offer to handle the negotiations for you. We were contacted by one who
claimed to be "in the area". Unfortunately the fact *he* came to *us*
meant he could never pass the smell test, and we never used him, despite
his helpfully reminding us of his existence.

Then one day - out of the blue - the doorbell rings. It was the
freeholder asking if we were interested in buying the freehold. We
chatted and a sum was agreed which seemed about right, so we got a
solicitor and bought it. SWMBO had previously spoken with him on the
phone, and I have to say he was as sleazy in person as she had described
him.

I also will never shake the feeling the freehold consultant and
freeholder were in collusion. Given the tortuous and opaque nature of the
process, it's easy to envisage a scheme whereby chummy boy pretends to
"negotiate" with the freeholder and get the grateful homeowner to cough
up over the odds without going through (and paying for) the surveyor
bunfight.


There is a law that says the freehold has to be offered and at a maximum
rate of 22 times the ground rent.

no there isn't

the value of a lease is the sum of the amortised value of the GR PLUS the
value of the reversion interest

Whilst it is possible to express the amortised value of the GR as a multiple
the reversion value is a function of the total property value and often
there is no relationship at all between GR and property value

tim

On 06/06/2016 12:44, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/06/2016 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done
this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of
the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a
different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT *our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for 10
years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they will find
(as has already happened) any mention of freehold purchase will be
assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want to go
down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder - arguing
over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a starting point.
(Guess who pays for the freeholders surveyor ????!!!!). So you are
looking at having to spend some cash upfront.

This leaves a gap in the market for a class of "freehold consultants"
who
offer to handle the negotiations for you. We were contacted by one who
claimed to be "in the area". Unfortunately the fact *he* came to *us*
meant he could never pass the smell test, and we never used him, despite
his helpfully reminding us of his existence.

Then one day - out of the blue - the doorbell rings. It was the
freeholder asking if we were interested in buying the freehold. We
chatted and a sum was agreed which seemed about right, so we got a
solicitor and bought it. SWMBO had previously spoken with him on the
phone, and I have to say he was as sleazy in person as she had described
him.

I also will never shake the feeling the freehold consultant and
freeholder were in collusion. Given the tortuous and opaque nature of
the
process, it's easy to envisage a scheme whereby chummy boy pretends to
"negotiate" with the freeholder and get the grateful homeowner to cough
up over the odds without going through (and paying for) the surveyor
bunfight.


There is a law that says the freehold has to be offered and at a
maximum rate of 22 times the ground rent.

no there isn't

No there isn't what a right or a maximum?

Well the rights are here ...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...entary-c829404

As for the maximum value its what the solicitor told me so it may or may
not be true.

On Monday, 6 June 2016 16:22:57 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/06/2016 12:44, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/06/2016 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done
this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of
the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a
different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT *our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for 10
years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they will find
(as has already happened) any mention of freehold purchase will be
assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want to go
down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder - arguing
over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a starting point.
(Guess who pays for the freeholders surveyor ????!!!!). So you are
looking at having to spend some cash upfront.

This leaves a gap in the market for a class of "freehold consultants"
who
offer to handle the negotiations for you. We were contacted by one who
claimed to be "in the area". Unfortunately the fact *he* came to *us*
meant he could never pass the smell test, and we never used him, despite
his helpfully reminding us of his existence.

Then one day - out of the blue - the doorbell rings. It was the
freeholder asking if we were interested in buying the freehold. We
chatted and a sum was agreed which seemed about right, so we got a
solicitor and bought it. SWMBO had previously spoken with him on the
phone, and I have to say he was as sleazy in person as she had described
him.

I also will never shake the feeling the freehold consultant and
freeholder were in collusion. Given the tortuous and opaque nature of
the
process, it's easy to envisage a scheme whereby chummy boy pretends to
"negotiate" with the freeholder and get the grateful homeowner to cough
up over the odds without going through (and paying for) the surveyor
bunfight.


There is a law that says the freehold has to be offered and at a
maximum rate of 22 times the ground rent.

no there isn't

No there isn't what a right or a maximum?

Well the rights are here ...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...entary-c829404

As for the maximum value its what the solicitor told me so it may or may
not be true.

If it's the same as a flat then there is no maximum it's what the leaseholder asks for then the negoiations begin.

In article ,
Tricky Dicky wrote:
We bought the freehold of the first house we owned, if I recall it was
10x the ground rent which was £15 per annum at the time. Even with
owning the freehold you may find restrictions in the form of covenants
that limit the number of "farts" you are allowed. Our bungalow is
freehold but the previous owner had to stump up a £400 "administration
fee" to the original developer to add a conservatory due to the
developer selling the property with restrictive covenants that gave him
a say on what could or could not be built. Whilst these things are
useful at the time of development and prevent householders constructing
horrendous structures affecting the value of the properties, 40 years on
its just a "nice little earner" and of course is something that can be
passed on to descendants who probably do not know what it is all about
but brings in a little income for basically doing nothing.

Mine - inner London - forbids me from keeping pigs. Or carrying out trade
as a tinker or organ grinder. Keeping chickens and running a brothel is
apparently OK. ;-)

--
*Of course I'm against sin; I'm against anything that I'm too old to enjoy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 06/06/2016 12:44, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/06/2016 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need
to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will
check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done
this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of
the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a
different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT *our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for 10
years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they will
find
(as has already happened) any mention of freehold purchase will be
assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want to go
down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder - arguing
over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a starting point.
(Guess who pays for the freeholders surveyor ????!!!!). So you are
looking at having to spend some cash upfront.

This leaves a gap in the market for a class of "freehold consultants"
who
offer to handle the negotiations for you. We were contacted by one who
claimed to be "in the area". Unfortunately the fact *he* came to *us*
meant he could never pass the smell test, and we never used him,
despite
his helpfully reminding us of his existence.

Then one day - out of the blue - the doorbell rings. It was the
freeholder asking if we were interested in buying the freehold. We
chatted and a sum was agreed which seemed about right, so we got a
solicitor and bought it. SWMBO had previously spoken with him on the
phone, and I have to say he was as sleazy in person as she had
described
him.

I also will never shake the feeling the freehold consultant and
freeholder were in collusion. Given the tortuous and opaque nature of
the
process, it's easy to envisage a scheme whereby chummy boy pretends to
"negotiate" with the freeholder and get the grateful homeowner to cough
up over the odds without going through (and paying for) the surveyor
bunfight.


There is a law that says the freehold has to be offered and at a
maximum rate of 22 times the ground rent.

no there isn't

No there isn't what a right or a maximum?

there isn't a maximum (well there is, it's the amount that the tribunal
assesses if you take it that far, but it isn't a simple calculation that you
can do for yourself)

tim

On 06/06/16 11:00, tim... wrote:

"DJC" wrote in message
...
On 06/06/16 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:

ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of
the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.


As the OP is talking about a shop none of the usual advice re
residential property applies. In the common residential case the
legislation giving rights to enfranchisement together with
restrictions on what can be charged for 'management' make being the
landlord more trouble than it's worth. A landlord is therefore
generally willing to sell out and would rather come to a private
arragement than be forced down the statutory route.

not with 99 year leases

The reversion is a valuable property not to be sold on lightly


Long leases are precisely those with little value to the freeholder.
With a lease of less than 80 years the 'marriage value' is disregarded
so buying a freehold via the statutory right to enfranchisement will not
be hugely expensive.


--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 06/06/16 13:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 12:44:45 +0100, tim... wrote:

Whilst it is possible to express the amortised value of the GR as a
multiple the reversion value is a function of the total property value
and often there is no relationship at all between GR and property value

Which is as far as I got.

Basically there's an element of (what the statutory leasehold valuation
process) determines as "the freehold value" which comprises a figure
derived from how much the property has increased in value since the lease
was granted. Oh, and you use a proxy for that figure of "rateable value".
So far so obscure. Until then realise that no property in England
(residential again) has had a rateable value since 1990.

Rubbish.

There is some very detailed information here.
http://www.lease-advice.org/advice-g...and-valuation/




Back to the RICS bunfight again.



--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 06/06/2016 08:22, tim... wrote:

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 05/06/2016 15:01, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:06:35 -0000 (UTC), R D S wrote:

I need to ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they
will check the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

And is at least the paperwork cost of actually purchasing the lease
included in the £120?


I think the £120 is for just asking if he can paint the back door
blood red etc. The lease is likely to cost 10s of thousands.

not with a GR of pennies and a term of 800 years


The income stream is the £120 at time to do anything to the property


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 06/06/2016 08:22, tim... wrote:

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 05/06/2016 15:01, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 13:06:35 -0000 (UTC), R D S wrote:

I need to ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they
will check the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

And is at least the paperwork cost of actually purchasing the lease
included in the £120?


I think the £120 is for just asking if he can paint the back door
blood red etc. The lease is likely to cost 10s of thousands.

not with a GR of pennies and a term of 800 years


The income stream is the £120 at time to do anything to the property

That can't be considered an income *stream*.

Most punters with such a clause in their lease will never pay the freeholder
a penny under that clause.

"DJC" wrote in message ...
On 06/06/16 11:00, tim... wrote:

"DJC" wrote in message
...
On 06/06/16 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:

ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of
the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.


As the OP is talking about a shop none of the usual advice re
residential property applies. In the common residential case the
legislation giving rights to enfranchisement together with
restrictions on what can be charged for 'management' make being the
landlord more trouble than it's worth. A landlord is therefore
generally willing to sell out and would rather come to a private
arragement than be forced down the statutory route.

not with 99 year leases

The reversion is a valuable property not to be sold on lightly


Long leases are precisely those with little value to the freeholder. With
a lease of less than 80 years the 'marriage value' is disregarded

that's for an extension, not for an outright purchase

so buying a freehold via the statutory right to enfranchisement will not
be hugely expensive.

agreed, but it is still an order of magnitude more than the amortised value
of a peppercorn ground rent.

And it's surprising just how many people CBA with buying a lease when it
cheap and get stung when it gets down to 50 years and find that the property
is unsalable.

tim

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

If it's the same as a flat then there is no maximum it's what the
leaseholder asks for then the negoiations begin.

s/leaseholder/freeholder/ ?

Surely the leaseholder is buying so will offer as little as possible
the freeholder is selling so asks for what they think they might get
+ some.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

If it's the same as a flat then there is no maximum it's what the
leaseholder asks for then the negoiations begin.

s/leaseholder/freeholder/ ?

Tis a common mistake

I know the difference and I still do it sometimes :-(

tim

On Monday, 6 June 2016 20:33:07 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 06/06/2016 12:44, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/06/2016 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I need
to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will
check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done
this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective of
the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a
different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT *our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for 10
years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they will
find
(as has already happened) any mention of freehold purchase will be
assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want to go
down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder - arguing
over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a starting point.
(Guess who pays for the freeholders surveyor ????!!!!). So you are
looking at having to spend some cash upfront.

This leaves a gap in the market for a class of "freehold consultants"
who
offer to handle the negotiations for you. We were contacted by one who
claimed to be "in the area". Unfortunately the fact *he* came to *us*
meant he could never pass the smell test, and we never used him,
despite
his helpfully reminding us of his existence.

Then one day - out of the blue - the doorbell rings. It was the
freeholder asking if we were interested in buying the freehold. We
chatted and a sum was agreed which seemed about right, so we got a
solicitor and bought it. SWMBO had previously spoken with him on the
phone, and I have to say he was as sleazy in person as she had
described
him.

I also will never shake the feeling the freehold consultant and
freeholder were in collusion. Given the tortuous and opaque nature of
the
process, it's easy to envisage a scheme whereby chummy boy pretends to
"negotiate" with the freeholder and get the grateful homeowner to cough
up over the odds without going through (and paying for) the surveyor
bunfight.


There is a law that says the freehold has to be offered and at a
maximum rate of 22 times the ground rent.

no there isn't

No there isn't what a right or a maximum?

there isn't a maximum (well there is, it's the amount that the tribunal
assesses if you take it that far, but it isn't a simple calculation that you
can do for yourself)


OK what is it then, as I've just gone through this.
Think it's called a section 42.

But basically the leasholder tells you how much they want and this is just to increase the lease extention . If yuo don;t agree with that amount you go through a solicitor who will tell you to get a surveyor in which you pay for.
Then they get a surveyor in which you pay for. They come up with their figures
and come back to you with a new one. If you don't agree then that's that no leasehold extention, unless you take it to a tribuneral.

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016 09:06:05 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

If it's the same as a flat then there is no maximum it's what the
leaseholder asks for then the negoiations begin.

s/leaseholder/freeholder/ ?

Surely the leaseholder is buying so will offer as little as possible
the freeholder is selling so asks for what they think they might get
+ some.

No the leaseholder already owns the lease.
Once the lease is up the property reverts to the leaseholder so there's no advantage to them to sell the lease or extend it as they can lose money.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 6 June 2016 20:33:07 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 06/06/2016 12:44, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/06/2016 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I
need
to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will
check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done
this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the
owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective
of
the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and
one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a
different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT
*our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for
10
years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they will
find
(as has already happened) any mention of freehold purchase will be
assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want to
go
down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder -
arguing
over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a starting point.
(Guess who pays for the freeholders surveyor ????!!!!). So you are
looking at having to spend some cash upfront.

This leaves a gap in the market for a class of "freehold
consultants"
who
offer to handle the negotiations for you. We were contacted by one
who
claimed to be "in the area". Unfortunately the fact *he* came to
*us*
meant he could never pass the smell test, and we never used him,
despite
his helpfully reminding us of his existence.

Then one day - out of the blue - the doorbell rings. It was the
freeholder asking if we were interested in buying the freehold. We
chatted and a sum was agreed which seemed about right, so we got a
solicitor and bought it. SWMBO had previously spoken with him on the
phone, and I have to say he was as sleazy in person as she had
described
him.

I also will never shake the feeling the freehold consultant and
freeholder were in collusion. Given the tortuous and opaque nature
of
the
process, it's easy to envisage a scheme whereby chummy boy pretends
to
"negotiate" with the freeholder and get the grateful homeowner to
cough
up over the odds without going through (and paying for) the surveyor
bunfight.


There is a law that says the freehold has to be offered and at a
maximum rate of 22 times the ground rent.

no there isn't

No there isn't what a right or a maximum?

there isn't a maximum (well there is, it's the amount that the tribunal
assesses if you take it that far, but it isn't a simple calculation that
you
can do for yourself)


OK what is it then,

It's the sum that the tribunal's experts assess as the value.

as I've just gone through this.
Think it's called a section 42.

But basically the leasholder tells you how much they want and this is just
to increase the lease extention . If yuo don;t agree with that amount you
go through a solicitor who will tell you to get a surveyor in which you
pay for.
Then they get a surveyor in which you pay for. They come up with their
figures
and come back to you with a new one. If you don't agree then that's that
no leasehold extention, unless you take it to a tribuneral.

Yep

so you take it to the tribunal (for which you pay).

and then when they have come up with their value that IS the maximum value
that the FH can charge for the selling/extending the lease (today).

But getting a figure for that maximum value requires a lot of work and
expense by the purchaser.

There is not a simple finger in the air value for it (which was the point at
issue).

tim

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 7 June 2016 09:06:05 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

If it's the same as a flat then there is no maximum it's what the
leaseholder asks for then the negoiations begin.

s/leaseholder/freeholder/ ?

Surely the leaseholder is buying so will offer as little as possible
the freeholder is selling so asks for what they think they might get
+ some.

No the leaseholder already owns the lease.
Once the lease is up the property reverts to the leaseholder so there's no
advantage to them to sell the lease or extend it as they can lose money.


See how easy it is to get wrong:

Once the lease is up the property reverts to the *freeholder* .....

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 11:45:46 +0100, tim... wrote:

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 6 June 2016 20:33:07 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 06/06/2016 12:44, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/06/2016 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill
always includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break
wind, I need to ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120
for which they will check the lease and advise whether I am
permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone
done this and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the
owner of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO
irrespective of the value of the freehold, there's a baseline of
c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house,
and one of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could
use a different one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the
freeholder. AT *our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance
for 10 years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they
will find (as has already happened) any mention of freehold
purchase will be assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want
to go down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder
- arguing over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a
starting point.
(Guess who pays for the freeholders surveyor ????!!!!). So you
are looking at having to spend some cash upfront.

This leaves a gap in the market for a class of "freehold
consultants"
who offer to handle the negotiations for you. We were contacted
by one who claimed to be "in the area". Unfortunately the fact
*he* came to *us*
meant he could never pass the smell test, and we never used him,
despite his helpfully reminding us of his existence.

Then one day - out of the blue - the doorbell rings. It was the
freeholder asking if we were interested in buying the freehold.
We chatted and a sum was agreed which seemed about right, so we
got a solicitor and bought it. SWMBO had previously spoken with
him on the phone, and I have to say he was as sleazy in person as
she had described him.

I also will never shake the feeling the freehold consultant and
freeholder were in collusion. Given the tortuous and opaque
nature of the process, it's easy to envisage a scheme whereby
chummy boy pretends to "negotiate" with the freeholder and get
the grateful homeowner to cough up over the odds without going
through (and paying for) the surveyor bunfight.


There is a law that says the freehold has to be offered and at a
maximum rate of 22 times the ground rent.

no there isn't

No there isn't what a right or a maximum?

there isn't a maximum (well there is, it's the amount that the
tribunal assesses if you take it that far, but it isn't a simple
calculation that you can do for yourself)


OK what is it then,

It's the sum that the tribunal's experts assess as the value.

as I've just gone through this.
Think it's called a section 42.

But basically the leasholder tells you how much they want and this is
just to increase the lease extention . If yuo don;t agree with that
amount you go through a solicitor who will tell you to get a surveyor
in which you pay for.
Then they get a surveyor in which you pay for. They come up with their
figures and come back to you with a new one. If you don't agree then
that's that no leasehold extention, unless you take it to a tribuneral.

Yep

so you take it to the tribunal (for which you pay).

and then when they have come up with their value that IS the maximum
value that the FH can charge for the selling/extending the lease
(today).

But getting a figure for that maximum value requires a lot of work and
expense by the purchaser.

There is not a simple finger in the air value for it (which was the
point at issue).

tim

So when our freeholder turned up, and suggested a figure (which was about
5% of what we paid for the property) we just paid it. The logic being we
could *easily* spend a couple of grand getting the "correct" figure, only
to discover it was what was suggested in the first place.

My guess is that is for a house

FH-ers of flats are much less likely to just knock on the door offering a
sale as the joint enfranchisement process is much more fraught

but when they knock on the door freely offering an extension they always ask
for an uplift in the GR as that ongoing income is what makes the holding the
FH worthwhile.

The statutory process requires that the GR become a peppercorn one, so they
don't like that at all and do everything that they can to avoid it.

Though opening offers for extensions that I have heard of have been
insultingly bad for the tenant, hoping to catch out someone who doesn't know
the score (which IME given the scant attention that the likes of Kirtsy and
Phil give to leases is not difficult). For one the uplift in the GR itself
was more than enough to cover the premium for the reversion but they we
still asking for a substantial sum for that.

Whilst it is clear that a request for 5K for a sale is not worth the work of
arguing over, an increase in GR to 500 pounds doubling every 10 years and a
premium of 20K, for an extension back to 99 years, most certainly is.

tim

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016 11:46:20 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 6 June 2016 20:33:07 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 06/06/2016 12:44, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/06/2016 09:21, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:55:33 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 05/06/2016 14:06, R D S wrote:
Has anyone bought their freehold?

My shop is leasehold, I pay 57p every 6 months and the bill always
includes a letter reminding me that if I want to break wind, I
need
to
ask them first and enclose a cheque for £120 for which they will
check
the lease and advise whether I am permitted to do so.

So i'd like to buy the lease at least on the shop. Has anyone done
this
and if so how was the process and what did it cost?

Value approx 70k, 850 yrs remaining on the lease.


ISTR that, for my house (similarly low rent and long lease), the
owner
of the freehold wanted £500 plus the legal costs.

One of the snags is that the purchaser has to pay the
freeloaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hholders legall costs too. SO irrespective
of
the
value of the freehold, there's a baseline of c. £2k.

I get where the OP is coming from. We bought a leasehold house, and
one
of the covenants dictated which insurer we used. We could use a
different
one, but the lease insisted it be approved by the freeholder. AT
*our*
expense (£60). Which meant we paid over the odds for insurance for
10
years.

I also sympathise with the OP trying to get good advice - they will
find
(as has already happened) any mention of freehold purchase will be
assumed to refer to flats.

We were trying to buy our freehold from the day we moved in. The
roadblock we hit was calculating what it was *worth*. If you want to
go
down the proper route, it involves you - and the freeholder -
arguing
over what a surveyor says the property is worth as a starting point.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 7 June 2016 11:46:20 UTC+1, tim... wrote:


so you take it to the tribunal (for which you pay).

yes you pay either way, we came to an agreement.
My surveyor change an extra grand for his 6 hours of negotiations to get
it down from 57K (leaseholders calculation) to 36K


and then when they have come up with their value that IS the maximum
value
that the FH can charge for the selling/extending the lease (today).

But getting a figure for that maximum value requires a lot of work and
expense by the purchaser.

which was already done an he came to 57K and his fee was £900 for that.


There is not a simple finger in the air value for it (which was the point
at
issue).

Yes although I don;t know why it can;t be simplier other than for profit
reasons.


You were lucky that the FH accepted your surveyor's opinion

most are very reluctant to do so

tim