"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 05/05/2016 08:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
ARW a écrit :
Why not just fit your own isolator and not tell them?

Done, yesterday lol

Did you fit a changeover switch so you can plug in a generator instead of
a plain isolator?


I fitted one the other day. Customer had just had his meter moved and
although the bloke that did the work works for "insert big co name here" the
job was cash in hand. And for a bit of extra cash cash in hand he also split
the electric supply (one to the meter and one to inside the house. The
changover switch is used to swap between the two.

--
Adam

On 04/05/2016 19:37, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 04/05/16 18:06, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I have arranged to have my gas and leccy meters changed for the Smart
versions. As I don't have an isolator upstream of my consumer unit, I
thought it would be a good time to have one fitted, so enquired if that
could be done at the same time if I supplied and mounted a suitable
isolator in the cabinet.

The reply from my supplier astounded me - Their engineers are only
trained to swap the meters, they are not qualified to do anything else.

The guy that swapped my gas meter left us with a leak, after he had gone
away after relighting the boiler. It was a swap that left the new meter
hanging on the pipes, no secure wall/floor contact or screws.

We called Transco out for the emergency, they tightened the nuts which
fixed the leak, still left the meter floating in air, refused to relight
the boiler (for being a bit unserviced) and stuck a prohibition notice
on it.

Ha. Years ago (before Transco) my parents phoned about a gas leak, they
came and checked, no leak found, but they put prohibition notices on
both the front and back room fires (back also included the central
heating boiler) leaving no heating at all.

In both cases they claimed that a "non-combustibe" hearth was required
under the fire, despite both fires having integral metal bases and the
one in the back room having a second metal base, with all the boiler
controls inbetween the two.

They rapidly removed the prohibitions when it was pointed out that when
the system was installed by my father, they'd come out and tested and
inspected the installation and approved it.

They were called out twice more for the leak and still said there wasn't
one.

In the end we called them back for a fourth time - after using just soap
and water to find that their pipe to the meter was leaking!

SteveW

On 04/05/2016 21:20, Roger Mills wrote:
On 04/05/2016 19:43, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andrew Gabriel a écrit :
The smart meter installers are mostly trained by rote - they aren't
electricians or gas fitters. They wouldn't be able to get enough of
them fast enough for the programme, and within costs.

That sounds as if I ought to be very, very concerned indeed. How do they
justify unskilled or at best semi-skilled people doing a job like this?

They're trained to do a specific job - and nothing else.

Happens in other industries. For example, you can be trained just to
take blood samples from patients - without requiring any medical
qualifications! I don't which is the more scary.

doctors have more important things to do than take bloods. That's
what phlebotomists (bleeders) are for, and sometimes they have
got some nursing or auxiliary care experience anyway. Most
patients have decent and easy veins to access and it's really
quite easy. Kiddies can be challenging. If the patient had difficult
veins (inpatient or outpatient) then there were always more experienced
people around to assist.

I have taken more blood samples than I could ever count. St Richards
hospital didn't even employ bleeders to go round the wards in the
morning, so the haematology technicians did it. At St Bartholomews there
was a group of ladies who went around the wards first thing in the
morning then spent the rest of the day in outpatients. Any
difficult patients were sent up to the Haematology dept where the
technicians would have a second attempt and as a last resort, get one of
the same departments trainee medical haematologists to try.

On 04/05/2016 21:02, Robert wrote:
On 04/05/2016 20:07, Simo wrote:


"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
I have arranged to have my gas and leccy meters changed for the Smart
versions. As I don't have an isolator upstream of my consumer unit, I
thought it would be a good time to have one fitted, so enquired if
that could be done at the same time if I supplied and mounted a
suitable isolator in the cabinet.

The reply from my supplier astounded me - Their engineers are only
trained to swap the meters, they are not qualified to do anything
else. Swapping meters is likely the most dangerous job on a domestic
installation, with some very serious safety implications if they do
get it wrong.

They indicated they would need to engage another 'specialised
engineer' to do it, at a cost to me of £70. Good grief what is the
world coming to?

IMO it's the sensible way to do the meter changers, only train them to
change
meters and have other more generally qualified people doing the rest.
Its called de-skilling and has occurred in many service industries.
Take a well defined routine job away from a generically trained
professional/technician/engineer and train someone with much lower
qualifications to just do the one job - much cheaper and can result in a
better job being done. You then need far fewer expensive generically
qualified people .
In the NHS taking routine blood samples used to be done by doctors even
consultants and is now done very efficiently by phlebotomists a "
clinical support worker" who does nothing else.

Which of course means that for my regular blood tests, I cannot have
them done at the local GPs (even by the Practice Nurse) and instead have
to go to the local hospital. That means being there by 06:30 if I don't
want a 2 hour or longer wait. As they don't open the outer door of the
corridor until 7:00, no-one can get a ticket from the dispenser and you
just have a load of tired people who pour in and then have no idea who
was first. I'm actually due to start work 15 miles away at 7:00 (at one
point is was 06:30 and 45 miles away) and am paid by the hour, so ending
up at the back of the queue and still having to wait for hours is more
than a little frustrating.

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 04/05/2016 21:02, Robert wrote:
On 04/05/2016 20:07, Simo wrote:


"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
I have arranged to have my gas and leccy meters changed for the Smart
versions. As I don't have an isolator upstream of my consumer unit, I
thought it would be a good time to have one fitted, so enquired if
that could be done at the same time if I supplied and mounted a
suitable isolator in the cabinet.

The reply from my supplier astounded me - Their engineers are only
trained to swap the meters, they are not qualified to do anything
else. Swapping meters is likely the most dangerous job on a domestic
installation, with some very serious safety implications if they do
get it wrong.

They indicated they would need to engage another 'specialised
engineer' to do it, at a cost to me of £70. Good grief what is the
world coming to?

IMO it's the sensible way to do the meter changers, only train them to
change
meters and have other more generally qualified people doing the rest.
Its called de-skilling and has occurred in many service industries.
Take a well defined routine job away from a generically trained
professional/technician/engineer and train someone with much lower
qualifications to just do the one job - much cheaper and can result in a
better job being done. You then need far fewer expensive generically
qualified people .
In the NHS taking routine blood samples used to be done by doctors even
consultants and is now done very efficiently by phlebotomists a "
clinical support worker" who does nothing else.

Which of course means that for my regular blood tests, I cannot have them
done at the local GPs (even by the Practice Nurse)

We can and in fact some of the retirement villages etc even
have someone come around and do that in your own unit.
And some of the local GPs do it too.

and instead have to go to the local hospital. That means being there by
06:30 if I don't want a 2 hour or longer wait.

Ours don't have as long a wait as that, but I personally do show up
so I am first in line, essentially because I hate going without breakfast
and prefer to have the blood taken as early as possible and then go
home and have my usual breakfast.

As they don't open the outer door of the corridor until 7:00, no-one can
get a ticket from the dispenser and you just have a load of tired people
who pour in and then have no idea who was first.

Ours is much better organised. The place you wait has no door at all,
the shutter is to the counter where you flash your papers etc and the
door to where they actually take the blood is next to that. The ticket
dispenser is always available and they reload it before leaving in the
evening the night before so its always available before they start.

The other path group isnt in the hospital and isn't quite so well
organised. You have to wait outside but everyone keeps track of
who showed up when so you do get to get your blood taken in
the order in which you showed up.

I'm actually due to start work 15 miles away at 7:00 (at one point is was
06:30 and 45 miles away) and am paid by the hour, so ending up at the back
of the queue and still having to wait for hours is more than a little
frustrating.

On 05/05/2016 20:48, Steve Walker wrote:
Which of course means that for my regular blood tests, I cannot have
them done at the local GPs

New GP indicated. Ours has a specialist phlebotomist.

They called me on Tuesday, and I made an appointment for the next
morning. I arrived a few minutes early and was called straight in.

Wish I hadn't let her stick a blob of cotton wool on to my hairy arm
with strong tape though!

Andy

On 05/05/2016 20:48, Steve Walker wrote:
That means being there by 06:30 if I don't want a 2 hour or longer wait.

It isn't the wait that is the problem for me. (It would just be a boring
inconvenience.) For quite a number of blood tests, time matters.

Our local hospital phlebotomy opens at 08:00 which, with luck, means a
draw just early enough. The GP appointments don't even start before 09:00.

Time wouldn't be quite such an issue if the medics even realised the
importance of time of draw. They don't. So they don't, actually can't,
make any allowance. Diagnosis, adjustments to medication, etc., can all
be affected because of this desperate ignorance. (Yes - there is
recognition of time for some tests.) Nor do they recognise that far more
tests are affected by fasting/not fasting than is ever acknowledged.

--
Rod

On 05/05/2016 10:46, Adrian Caspersz wrote:


I know less about the subject than you. How is the size calculated?



http://yorkshirecopper.com/webcasts2...ng/player.html

http://copperplumbing.org.uk/sites/d...d-sizing_0.pdf

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Thu, 5 May 2016 20:45:28 +0100, Andrew wrote:

doctors have more important things to do than take bloods. That's
what phlebotomists (bleeders) are for,

Quite I'd much rather have bloods taken by someone who is doing it
many times a day than some one who only does it occasionally. The
Practice Nurse takes bloods at our GP's, prefereably in the morning
so they leave on the transport around midday to reach the lab that
day.

If we had to be referred to a hospital with a lab, that would be a 50
to 70 mile round and 3 hours or so depending on the which hospital
and assuming use of own transport. Public transport would take most
of the day *and* require the appointment to be late morning/early
afternoon.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 5 May 2016 21:42:31 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 05/05/2016 20:48, Steve Walker wrote:
Which of course means that for my regular blood tests, I cannot have
them done at the local GPs

New GP indicated. Ours has a specialist phlebotomist.

Not so easy to change for many people who don't live in a densely
populated area .
Ours had a phlebotomist but withdrew her in her a cost cutting
exercise. They quickly did a partial reverse after protests that
older people in area without public transport were already relying on
Family, Friends,Volunteers to get them to the surgery let alone the
hospital about 15 miles away and employed one part time .
Tests were then done on if you really can't make it to the Hospital
then we may fit you in here basis.
Since then they have relented further and the service is available 5
mornings a week, all of Wednesday,and a monthly Saturday Morning,

G,Harman



They called me on Tuesday, and I made an appointment for the next
morning. I arrived a few minutes early and was called straight in.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Thu, 5 May 2016 20:45:28 +0100, Andrew wrote:

doctors have more important things to do than take bloods. That's
what phlebotomists (bleeders) are for,

Quite I'd much rather have bloods taken by someone who is doing it
many times a day than some one who only does it occasionally. The
Practice Nurse takes bloods at our GP's, prefereably in the morning
so they leave on the transport around midday to reach the lab that
day.

If we had to be referred to a hospital with a lab, that would be a 50
to 70 mile round and 3 hours or so depending on the which hospital
and assuming use of own transport. Public transport would take most
of the day *and* require the appointment to be late morning/early
afternoon.

all of my local hospitals run a turn up and wait system for taking bloods

only the GPs require you to make a specific appointment

tim

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2016 20:48, Steve Walker wrote:
That means being there by 06:30 if I don't want a 2 hour or longer wait.

It isn't the wait that is the problem for me. (It would just be a boring
inconvenience.) For quite a number of blood tests, time matters.

Our local hospital phlebotomy opens at 08:00 which, with luck, means a
draw just early enough. The GP appointments don't even start before 09:00.

Time wouldn't be quite such an issue if the medics even realised the
importance of time of draw. They don't. So they don't, actually can't,
make any allowance. Diagnosis, adjustments to medication, etc., can all be
affected because of this desperate ignorance. (Yes - there is recognition
of time for some tests.) Nor do they recognise that far more tests are
affected by fasting/not fasting than is ever acknowledged.

My GP (receptionists) insist that if you have a fasting requirement
you*must* have your appointment before 9:30.

Why is it that I cannot be trusted to fast until 10:30 if I am told that I
have to? (Bearing in mind all the other things that they have to trust that
I do, or not, they they have no checks for)

tim

On 06/05/2016 09:46, wrote:
On Thu, 5 May 2016 21:42:31 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 05/05/2016 20:48, Steve Walker wrote:
Which of course means that for my regular blood tests, I cannot have
them done at the local GPs

New GP indicated. Ours has a specialist phlebotomist.

Not so easy to change for many people who don't live in a densely
populated area .
Ours had a phlebotomist but withdrew her in her a cost cutting
exercise. They quickly did a partial reverse after protests that
older people in area without public transport were already relying on
Family, Friends,Volunteers to get them to the surgery let alone the
hospital about 15 miles away and employed one part time .

Bloody hell that's a waste.
Our GP had a couple of receptionists trained to take blood.

Not that I use them as I go to the clinic that does blood from 07:00.

On 06/05/2016 10:44, tim... wrote:

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2016 20:48, Steve Walker wrote:
That means being there by 06:30 if I don't want a 2 hour or longer wait.

It isn't the wait that is the problem for me. (It would just be a
boring inconvenience.) For quite a number of blood tests, time matters.

Our local hospital phlebotomy opens at 08:00 which, with luck, means a
draw just early enough. The GP appointments don't even start before
09:00.

Time wouldn't be quite such an issue if the medics even realised the
importance of time of draw. They don't. So they don't, actually can't,
make any allowance. Diagnosis, adjustments to medication, etc., can
all be affected because of this desperate ignorance. (Yes - there is
recognition of time for some tests.) Nor do they recognise that far
more tests are affected by fasting/not fasting than is ever acknowledged.

My GP (receptionists) insist that if you have a fasting requirement
you*must* have your appointment before 9:30.

Why is it that I cannot be trusted to fast until 10:30 if I am told that
I have to? (Bearing in mind all the other things that they have to
trust that I do, or not, they they have no checks for)

Its nothing to do with trust.
How many suffer ill effects from fasting too long?

I get mine done at ~07:00 if its fasting.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/05/2016 10:44, tim... wrote:

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2016 20:48, Steve Walker wrote:
That means being there by 06:30 if I don't want a 2 hour or longer
wait.

It isn't the wait that is the problem for me. (It would just be a
boring inconvenience.) For quite a number of blood tests, time matters.

Our local hospital phlebotomy opens at 08:00 which, with luck, means a
draw just early enough. The GP appointments don't even start before
09:00.

Time wouldn't be quite such an issue if the medics even realised the
importance of time of draw. They don't. So they don't, actually can't,
make any allowance. Diagnosis, adjustments to medication, etc., can
all be affected because of this desperate ignorance. (Yes - there is
recognition of time for some tests.) Nor do they recognise that far
more tests are affected by fasting/not fasting than is ever
acknowledged.

My GP (receptionists) insist that if you have a fasting requirement
you*must* have your appointment before 9:30.

Why is it that I cannot be trusted to fast until 10:30 if I am told that
I have to? (Bearing in mind all the other things that they have to
trust that I do, or not, they they have no checks for)

Its nothing to do with trust.
How many suffer ill effects from fasting too long?

If I'm on a travelling holiday I regularly go until the afternoon before
eating

If I don't, I spend half of the day looking for a toilet to use, like *now*

In some countries it isn't easy to find a clean usable toilet, so I try to
avoid the problem

tim

On 06/05/2016 10:44, tim... wrote:
My GP (receptionists) insist that if you have a fasting requirement
you*must* have your appointment before 9:30.

The impact of eating and drinking (other than water) on some tests has
been missed for decades. Doctors are hardly going to put themselves out
to make early drawing available if they don't know of the impact it has.
(Both in terms of making fasting easier and ensuring that the actual
time is early enough.)

--
Rod

On 06/05/2016 09:46, wrote:
Since then they have relented further and the service is available 5
mornings a week, all of Wednesday,and a monthly Saturday Morning,

A number of years ago it was noticed that the GP/surgery contracts
included a component for providing phlebotomy services - but most
surgeries didn't provide the service. After that, our surgery started
doing some phlebotomy but in such a half-hearted way it is probably best
to avoid. You simply can't get, for example, a GP appointment and blood
draw such that you can do both in one visit. Further, a number of tests
require special handling and might need to be done at a hospital.

--
Rod

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/05/2016 10:44, tim... wrote:

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2016 20:48, Steve Walker wrote:
That means being there by 06:30 if I don't want a 2 hour or longer
wait.

It isn't the wait that is the problem for me. (It would just be a
boring inconvenience.) For quite a number of blood tests, time matters.

Our local hospital phlebotomy opens at 08:00 which, with luck, means a
draw just early enough. The GP appointments don't even start before
09:00.

Time wouldn't be quite such an issue if the medics even realised the
importance of time of draw. They don't. So they don't, actually can't,
make any allowance. Diagnosis, adjustments to medication, etc., can
all be affected because of this desperate ignorance. (Yes - there is
recognition of time for some tests.) Nor do they recognise that far
more tests are affected by fasting/not fasting than is ever
acknowledged.

My GP (receptionists) insist that if you have a fasting requirement
you*must* have your appointment before 9:30.

Why is it that I cannot be trusted to fast until 10:30 if I am told that
I have to? (Bearing in mind all the other things that they have to
trust that I do, or not, they they have no checks for)

Its nothing to do with trust.
How many suffer ill effects from fasting too long?

**** all IMO.

I get mine done at ~07:00 if its fasting.

So do I but that is because I never
voluntarily go without breakfast.

Turns out that the entire fasting thing is a
complete waste of time for most blood tests.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...allacy/7371580

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/05/2016 10:44, tim... wrote:

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2016 20:48, Steve Walker wrote:
That means being there by 06:30 if I don't want a 2 hour or longer
wait.

It isn't the wait that is the problem for me. (It would just be a
boring inconvenience.) For quite a number of blood tests, time matters.

Our local hospital phlebotomy opens at 08:00 which, with luck, means a
draw just early enough. The GP appointments don't even start before
09:00.

Time wouldn't be quite such an issue if the medics even realised the
importance of time of draw. They don't. So they don't, actually can't,
make any allowance. Diagnosis, adjustments to medication, etc., can
all be affected because of this desperate ignorance. (Yes - there is
recognition of time for some tests.) Nor do they recognise that far
more tests are affected by fasting/not fasting than is ever
acknowledged.

My GP (receptionists) insist that if you have a fasting requirement
you*must* have your appointment before 9:30.

Why is it that I cannot be trusted to fast until 10:30 if I am told that
I have to? (Bearing in mind all the other things that they have to
trust that I do, or not, they they have no checks for)

Its nothing to do with trust.
How many suffer ill effects from fasting too long?

If I'm on a travelling holiday I regularly go until the afternoon before
eating

I don't eat anything during the day even when not travelling.

If I don't, I spend half of the day looking for a toilet to use, like
*now*

I don't drink anything for breakfast anymore and still have a ****
during the day unless I am tearing around in very hot weather.

In some countries it isn't easy to find a clean usable toilet, so I try to
avoid the problem

I'm not fussy about what they are like when I want somewhere to ****.

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2016 10:44, tim... wrote:
My GP (receptionists) insist that if you have a fasting requirement
you*must* have your appointment before 9:30.

The impact of eating and drinking (other than water) on some tests has
been missed for decades. Doctors are hardly going to put themselves out to
make early drawing available if they don't know of the impact it has.

In fact it turns out to not be necessary to fast for most blood tests.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...allacy/7371580

(Both in terms of making fasting easier and ensuring that the actual time
is early enough.)

In article l.net,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Thu, 05 May 2016 01:10:54 +0100, Graham. wrote:

Wouldn't you need to be Gas Safe certified to change somebody's gas
meter?

Yes, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have a class that only
allows the holder to change meters. Gas Safe is not just a bit of
paper allowing you to work on gas but lots of bits of paper each one
allowing you to work on different aspects of gas, domestic,
commercial, industrial, etc

I have a recollection of Transco refusing to get their staff
registered (CORGI at the time), arguing it wasn't appropriate
training for supply side work. Government had no choice but to
give in, as it would otherwise leave no staff in the country
able to undertake any gas supply work, including emergency
fixes, from the date registration became mandatory.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]