My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?

On Mon, 2 May 2016 00:34:59 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?


I think it's suitability may depend on how often you use a corded
drill for 'bigger jobs', inc non drilling?

If you have to have only one drill then an SDS can probably do things
most non SDS's can't (better than the 'hammer' position on a non SDS
fir example) but you might find it a bit big and heavy for 'ordinary'
drilling jobs, like making pilot holes in wood or even drilling
smaller holes through steel.

In an ideal world you would have a 'big / SDS' drill for core drills
and chiseling *as well* as your std corded (for wire brushing or any
prolonged high load type work), a decent battery drill (where being
portable is key) and even a Demel for the smaller / finer stuff (and
you can even fit other variants in between, like an air powered drill
/ die grinder, pillar drill, brace and bit etc). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

If you have some difficult walls to drill then you cannot beat an SDS drill, our last house was built from over baked engineering bricks from a local brickyard, ordinary hammer drills just could not touch them. Then I got my trusty ELU and never looked back. My SDS also has a Jacobs chuck that fits in the SDS tool holder but I only use it in absolute desperation as it really is a kludge. The tool holders do not grip the SDS bits like a chuck, insert a drill bit and you can feel slight movement longitudenly. Insert the Jacobs chuck and it throws the whole balance of the machine and the accuracy.. If you want to use it for drilling in other materials other than brick or concrete then you are better off paying the extra and getting twist drills that have an SDS tool end and fit directly into the tool holder. SDS drills are kind on the bits, I have a 7mm bit I bought over 20 years ago and it is still usable today despite seeing regular service.

Richard

On 02/05/2016 00:34, JoeJoe wrote:
My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?

I've had one of those 3 years now. It's very good indeed at heavier work
- large holes/tough material drilling, or removing masonry for example.
Makes my old B&D mains hammer and 18V hammer feel like toys.

I wouldn't use it for lighter jobs though - combination of: it's quite
noisy, messy, big and heavy; cordless is more convenient; the
chuck-changing and bit setting using the chuck is cumbersome (but the
SDS system bits are easy); and, the variable speed isn't the last word
in finesse.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 02/05/2016 00:50, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 00:34:59 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?


I think it's suitability may depend on how often you use a corded
drill for 'bigger jobs', inc non drilling?

If you have to have only one drill then an SDS can probably do things
most non SDS's can't (better than the 'hammer' position on a non SDS
fir example) but you might find it a bit big and heavy for 'ordinary'
drilling jobs, like making pilot holes in wood or even drilling
smaller holes through steel.

In an ideal world you would have a 'big / SDS' drill for core drills
and chiseling *as well* as your std corded (for wire brushing or any
prolonged high load type work), a decent battery drill (where being
portable is key) and even a Demel for the smaller / finer stuff (and
you can even fit other variants in between, like an air powered drill
/ die grinder, pillar drill, brace and bit etc). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Sorry, I should have been more specific:

I already have a reasonably powerful battery-powered combi drill that I
use for small jobs (screwing, drilling in wood, etc).

The garage is already full, so I am looking for just the one drill for
the more heavy-duty jobs: masonry, large holes in wood, and although
never tried it before, the option to be able to do the occasional
chiselling (power points etc) also sounds attractive.

Weight is not a major issue as it will only be occasionally used.

JoeJoe Wrote in message:
My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?


Search this newsgroup for "sds drill" and enjoy the spirited
discourses that regularly crop up, usually after a post
er....just like yours.....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Mon, 2 May 2016 08:15:57 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

snip

In an ideal world you would have a 'big / SDS' drill for core drills
and chiseling *as well* as your std corded (for wire brushing or any
prolonged high load type work), a decent battery drill (where being
portable is key) and even a Demel for the smaller / finer stuff (and
you can even fit other variants in between, like an air powered drill
/ die grinder, pillar drill, brace and bit etc). ;-)


Sorry, I should have been more specific:

That's no problem. I covered all bases just in case. ;-)

I already have a reasonably powerful battery-powered combi drill that I
use for small jobs (screwing, drilling in wood, etc).

Ok.

The garage is already full,

Then may I suggest you need a bigger garage (not less tools). ;-)

so I am looking for just the one drill for
the more heavy-duty jobs: masonry, large holes in wood, and although
never tried it before, the option to be able to do the occasional
chiselling (power points etc) also sounds attractive.

Again, I don't think any SDS drill used as a power chisel / 'hammer
drill' will be as good as a 'proper' power chisel / Kango but if you
are only doing smaller jobs with it (and not taking down a concrete
air raid shelter, like we did) they can be a real asset.

Weight is not a major issue as it will only be occasionally used.

Understood. I have one of the very first 'cheap' (as in 29 quid) SDS
drills that I think came from Argos and it feels like it's been made
out of old tank parts (and even smells the same).

As an aside, this hammer drill has an appeal and I don't know why ...?
;-)

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/221544...-1/s-l1000.jpg

Cheers, T i m

On 02/05/2016 09:37, T i m wrote:
As an aside, this hammer drill has an appeal and I don't know why ...?
;-)

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/221544...-1/s-l1000.jpg

I think Makita's colours might go better with that top. :-)

--
Rod

JoeJoe a écrit :
Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard", which
would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my bits are
standard.

If you are thinking you can use the standard chuck for normal impact
drills, then forget it - it is not designed to do that. The chuck is
only useful for none impact drilling - of metal and wood, but it is a
bit clumsy for that.

You will need to buy proper SDS bits for drilling concrete and brick.

On Mon, 2 May 2016 09:39:17 +0100, polygonum
wrote:

On 02/05/2016 09:37, T i m wrote:
As an aside, this hammer drill has an appeal and I don't know why ...?
;-)

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/221544...-1/s-l1000.jpg

I think Makita's colours might go better with that top. :-)

'Top' ... oh, I see what you mean, I'd not noticed ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 1 May 2016 22:53:50 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

If you have some difficult walls to drill then you cannot beat an SDS drill,

Agreed.

our last house was built from over baked engineering bricks from a local brickyard, ordinary hammer drills just could not touch them. Then I got my trusty ELU and never looked back. My SDS also has a Jacobs chuck that fits in the SDS tool holder but I only use it in absolute desperation as it really is a kludge. The tool holders do not grip the SDS bits like a chuck, insert a drill bit and you can feel slight movement longitudenly. Insert the Jacobs chuck and it throws the whole balance of the machine and the accuracy.

Yup, ok in an emergency if you only have the SDS with you and then
find you have to go though some metal etc.

If you want to use it for drilling in other materials other than brick or concrete then you are better off paying the extra and getting twist drills that have an SDS tool end and fit directly into the tool holder.

Agreed. I think they are a bit more expensive and no so common
(especially in sets) but as you say, are available and you might just
need just a select few sizes (6, 8, 10mm)?

SDS drills are kind on the bits, I have a 7mm bit I bought over 20 years ago and it is still usable today despite seeing regular service.

That might be a record for a drill bit! ;-)

Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG

My Dad had some and I did use them to reasonable success when a lad.
Fairly slow going though! Funny that whilst obviously 'very old'
(60's?) in concept, hand powered drills have gone back thousands of
years.

What I did use the Rawlplug 'drills' more regularly for, pre 'hammer
drills' was breaking any stone you came across when drilling a hole
with an ordinary masonry bit and electric (or even hand) drill. One or
two hits with that and hammer and you could then drill through the
remains of the stone without burning the tip of your drill out (or the
hole going wildly off line).

Those were the days of regular use of the brace and bit, before the
advent of flat / speed drills for wood. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 02/05/2016 00:34, JoeJoe wrote:
My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

An SDS will make mincemeat of even the toughest walls.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

It will probably come with a few SDS bits for masonry, if not they are
cheap as chips. Only use the standard chuck for drilling wood, metal etc.

Any thoughts please?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

In article ,
JoeJoe wrote:
My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?

Not got that particular one, but Lidl tools generally do what it says on
the tin and are very good value too. And if you keep the receipt, can get
your money back easily, if it doesn't suit.

As will all SDS, it is ideal for drilling holes in masonry. And for
chasing, etc. But not anything like as good for drilling holes in anything
else. It will be a lot larger (longer) and heavier than a plain mains
drill. The normal chuck may allow more slop too.

But at that price you could get it and a plain ol' mains drill and still
be quids in from your original budget.

--
*I thought I wanted a career. Turns out I just wanted paychecks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 2 May 2016 08:02:01 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 02/05/2016 00:34, JoeJoe wrote:
My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?

I've had one of those 3 years now. It's very good indeed at heavier work
- large holes/tough material drilling, or removing masonry for example.
Makes my old B&D mains hammer and 18V hammer feel like toys.

I wouldn't use it for lighter jobs though - combination of: it's quite
noisy, messy, big and heavy; cordless is more convenient; the
chuck-changing and bit setting using the chuck is cumbersome (but the
SDS system bits are easy); and, the variable speed isn't the last word
in finesse.

Rob, is it the Lidl one you have and is it three function as the
selector appears to have only two positions and three is not mentioned
in the text?

I am in the market for an SDS+ drill to replace my Makita that has
just died after 3 years. On inspection I found that the pin driving
the impact mechanism was blue from heat and the motor pinion teeth
were mostly missing! I was dismayed to find that there was no apparent
lubrication in the drive and gear mechanism.

I have compared the theoretical spec for the Lidl one and it appears
(on paper!) to be up there with more expensive budget machines from
Toolstation:

Lidl Impact force 3J, Input Power 1050W £40
Draper 20503 2.5J, 750W, £80
Both 0-5,300ipm
Sparky BPR261E 3.1J, 820W, 0-5450ipm £100

Looking at Bosch at twice the price the spec appears to be the same
but hopefully more reliable design and build quality .. but are they?

Mike

After reading through the posts I never saw mention of SDS plus (maybe
missed it) But with ref to chesels etc should it not be an SDS plus
rather than SDS.
Just me thinking out loud.

On 02/05/2016 10:24, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2016 22:53:50 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

If you have some difficult walls to drill then you cannot beat an SDS drill,

Agreed.

our last house was built from over baked engineering bricks from a local brickyard, ordinary hammer drills just could not touch them. Then I got my trusty ELU and never looked back. My SDS also has a Jacobs chuck that fits in the SDS tool holder but I only use it in absolute desperation as it really is a kludge. The tool holders do not grip the SDS bits like a chuck, insert a drill bit and you can feel slight movement longitudenly. Insert the Jacobs chuck and it throws the whole balance of the machine and the accuracy.

Yup, ok in an emergency if you only have the SDS with you and then
find you have to go though some metal etc.

If you want to use it for drilling in other materials other than brick or concrete then you are better off paying the extra and getting twist drills that have an SDS tool end and fit directly into the tool holder.

Agreed. I think they are a bit more expensive and no so common
(especially in sets) but as you say, are available and you might just
need just a select few sizes (6, 8, 10mm)?

Bosch SDS bits from Toolsatan - less than £2 for a 6mm.

SDS drills are kind on the bits, I have a 7mm bit I bought over 20 years ago and it is still usable today despite seeing regular service.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

In article ,
ss wrote:
After reading through the posts I never saw mention of SDS plus (maybe
missed it) But with ref to chesels etc should it not be an SDS plus
rather than SDS.
Just me thinking out loud.

Think you'll find most new are SDS plus these days.

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/05/2016 11:16, wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 08:02:01 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 02/05/2016 00:34, JoeJoe wrote:
My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?

I've had one of those 3 years now. It's very good indeed at heavier work
- large holes/tough material drilling, or removing masonry for example.
Makes my old B&D mains hammer and 18V hammer feel like toys.

I wouldn't use it for lighter jobs though - combination of: it's quite
noisy, messy, big and heavy; cordless is more convenient; the
chuck-changing and bit setting using the chuck is cumbersome (but the
SDS system bits are easy); and, the variable speed isn't the last word
in finesse.

Rob, is it the Lidl one you have and is it three function as the
selector appears to have only two positions and three is not mentioned
in the text?


Here's mine:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/47717472@N03/26165841493/

The setting it's on is the chisel 'hammer' symbol. The other two are
drill and hammer drill. The 4th setting lets you turn the chisel.

I am in the market for an SDS+ drill to replace my Makita that has
just died after 3 years. On inspection I found that the pin driving
the impact mechanism was blue from heat and the motor pinion teeth
were mostly missing! I was dismayed to find that there was no apparent
lubrication in the drive and gear mechanism.


Disappointing for Makita. Mine does get warm, and there's some grease
supplied, which I suppose helps.

I have compared the theoretical spec for the Lidl one and it appears
(on paper!) to be up there with more expensive budget machines from
Toolstation:

Lidl Impact force 3J, Input Power 1050W £40
Draper 20503 2.5J, 750W, £80
Both 0-5,300ipm
Sparky BPR261E 3.1J, 820W, 0-5450ipm £100

FWIW, mine is:

Impact energy: 3 joules max, 1050W
Drilling capacity: 13 mm in steel max. 32 mm in wood max. 26 mm in concrete

The one on sale now does look a little different - the drill casing is
fancier. And it's clean ;-)


Looking at Bosch at twice the price the spec appears to be the same
but hopefully more reliable design and build quality .. but are they?


Well, there's a question! I do like Bosch tools, but I find the
Lidl/Aldi offerings work pretty well for me.


--
Cheers, Rob

On Mon, 2 May 2016 11:34:57 +0100, David Lang
wrote:

On 02/05/2016 10:24, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2016 22:53:50 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

If you have some difficult walls to drill then you cannot beat an SDS drill,

Agreed.

our last house was built from over baked engineering bricks from a local brickyard, ordinary hammer drills just could not touch them. Then I got my trusty ELU and never looked back. My SDS also has a Jacobs chuck that fits in the SDS tool holder but I only use it in absolute desperation as it really is a kludge. The tool holders do not grip the SDS bits like a chuck, insert a drill bit and you can feel slight movement longitudenly. Insert the Jacobs chuck and it throws the whole balance of the machine and the accuracy.

Yup, ok in an emergency if you only have the SDS with you and then
find you have to go though some metal etc.

If you want to use it for drilling in other materials other than brick or concrete then you are better off paying the extra and getting twist drills that have an SDS tool end and fit directly into the tool holder.

Agreed. I think they are a bit more expensive and no so common
(especially in sets) but as you say, are available and you might just
need just a select few sizes (6, 8, 10mm)?

Bosch SDS bits from Toolsatan - less than £2 for a 6mm.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p61943?table=no

But that is a masonry bit?

I thought we were talking of ordinary HSS bits but on an SDS mount
(like for when you are drilling though concrete and hit a steel plate
or some such)?

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 11:34:57 +0100, David Lang
wrote:

On 02/05/2016 10:24, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2016 22:53:50 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

If you have some difficult walls to drill then you cannot beat an SDS
drill,

Agreed.

our last house was built from over baked engineering bricks from a
local brickyard, ordinary hammer drills just could not touch them.
Then I got my trusty ELU and never looked back. My SDS also has a
Jacobs chuck that fits in the SDS tool holder but I only use it in
absolute desperation as it really is a kludge. The tool holders do
not grip the SDS bits like a chuck, insert a drill bit and you can
feel slight movement longitudenly. Insert the Jacobs chuck and it
throws the whole balance of the machine and the accuracy.

Yup, ok in an emergency if you only have the SDS with you and then
find you have to go though some metal etc.

If you want to use it for drilling in other materials other than
brick or concrete then you are better off paying the extra and
getting twist drills that have an SDS tool end and fit directly into
the tool holder.

Agreed. I think they are a bit more expensive and no so common
(especially in sets) but as you say, are available and you might just
need just a select few sizes (6, 8, 10mm)?

Bosch SDS bits from Toolsatan - less than £2 for a 6mm.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p61943?table=no

But that is a masonry bit?

I thought we were talking of ordinary HSS bits but on an SDS mount
(like for when you are drilling though concrete and hit a steel plate
or some such)?

or even a reinforcing rod in a pre-cast concrete beam.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Mon, 02 May 2016 12:00:53 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 11:34:57 +0100, David Lang
wrote:

On 02/05/2016 10:24, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2016 22:53:50 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

If you have some difficult walls to drill then you cannot beat an SDS
drill,

Agreed.

our last house was built from over baked engineering bricks from a
local brickyard, ordinary hammer drills just could not touch them.
Then I got my trusty ELU and never looked back. My SDS also has a
Jacobs chuck that fits in the SDS tool holder but I only use it in
absolute desperation as it really is a kludge. The tool holders do
not grip the SDS bits like a chuck, insert a drill bit and you can
feel slight movement longitudenly. Insert the Jacobs chuck and it
throws the whole balance of the machine and the accuracy.

Yup, ok in an emergency if you only have the SDS with you and then
find you have to go though some metal etc.

If you want to use it for drilling in other materials other than
brick or concrete then you are better off paying the extra and
getting twist drills that have an SDS tool end and fit directly into
the tool holder.

Agreed. I think they are a bit more expensive and no so common
(especially in sets) but as you say, are available and you might just
need just a select few sizes (6, 8, 10mm)?

Bosch SDS bits from Toolsatan - less than £2 for a 6mm.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p61943?table=no

But that is a masonry bit?

I thought we were talking of ordinary HSS bits but on an SDS mount
(like for when you are drilling though concrete and hit a steel plate
or some such)?

or even a reinforcing rod in a pre-cast concrete beam.

Well yes, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to drill though those. ;-)

There was something on that on TV the other day. The guy cast a 'beam'
of concrete, placed it across two blocks (making a bridge), stood on
it and it just collapsed. He then did another one with a bit (or bits)
of Rebar (steel rod) in it and he even ended up hitting it with a
sledge hammer, and whilst it may have cracked and lost bits off the
side, it didn't 'break' (as in collapse from being a bridge).

The demonstration / lesson was that whilst concrete is good in
compression it isn't good in tension or bending, whereas steel is good
in tension (and compression / bending, if the section is correct, just
that it's more expensive than concrete) but add a bit of steel to
concrete and it too is good in tension and against bending (unless you
drill through it of course). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 02/05/2016 11:55, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 11:34:57 +0100, David Lang
wrote:

On 02/05/2016 10:24, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2016 22:53:50 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

If you have some difficult walls to drill then you cannot beat an SDS drill,

Agreed.

our last house was built from over baked engineering bricks from a local brickyard, ordinary hammer drills just could not touch them. Then I got my trusty ELU and never looked back. My SDS also has a Jacobs chuck that fits in the SDS tool holder but I only use it in absolute desperation as it really is a kludge. The tool holders do not grip the SDS bits like a chuck, insert a drill bit and you can feel slight movement longitudenly. Insert the Jacobs chuck and it throws the whole balance of the machine and the accuracy.

Yup, ok in an emergency if you only have the SDS with you and then
find you have to go though some metal etc.

If you want to use it for drilling in other materials other than brick or concrete then you are better off paying the extra and getting twist drills that have an SDS tool end and fit directly into the tool holder.

Agreed. I think they are a bit more expensive and no so common
(especially in sets) but as you say, are available and you might just
need just a select few sizes (6, 8, 10mm)?

Bosch SDS bits from Toolsatan - less than £2 for a 6mm.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p61943?table=no

But that is a masonry bit?

Of course. Sorry, I though the comment meant SDS masonry bits were a bit
more expensive and no so common. My bad.

I thought we were talking of ordinary HSS bits but on an SDS mount
(like for when you are drilling though concrete and hit a steel plate
or some such)?

If you want to use ordinary HSS bits you use the supplied chuck, but
rebar isn't usually a problem with a masonry bit, it just throws the
hole out of line.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

On 02/05/2016 11:52, RJH wrote:
On 02/05/2016 11:16, wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 08:02:01 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 02/05/2016 00:34, JoeJoe wrote:
My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but
as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?

I've had one of those 3 years now. It's very good indeed at heavier work
- large holes/tough material drilling, or removing masonry for example.
Makes my old B&D mains hammer and 18V hammer feel like toys.

I wouldn't use it for lighter jobs though - combination of: it's quite
noisy, messy, big and heavy; cordless is more convenient; the
chuck-changing and bit setting using the chuck is cumbersome (but the
SDS system bits are easy); and, the variable speed isn't the last word
in finesse.

Rob, is it the Lidl one you have and is it three function as the
selector appears to have only two positions and three is not mentioned
in the text?


Here's mine:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/47717472@N03/26165841493/

The setting it's on is the chisel 'hammer' symbol. The other two are
drill and hammer drill. The 4th setting lets you turn the chisel.

I am in the market for an SDS+ drill to replace my Makita that has
just died after 3 years. On inspection I found that the pin driving
the impact mechanism was blue from heat and the motor pinion teeth
were mostly missing! I was dismayed to find that there was no apparent
lubrication in the drive and gear mechanism.


Disappointing for Makita. Mine does get warm, and there's some grease
supplied, which I suppose helps.

I have compared the theoretical spec for the Lidl one and it appears
(on paper!) to be up there with more expensive budget machines from
Toolstation:

Lidl Impact force 3J, Input Power 1050W £40
Draper 20503 2.5J, 750W, £80
Both 0-5,300ipm
Sparky BPR261E 3.1J, 820W, 0-5450ipm £100

FWIW, mine is:

Impact energy: 3 joules max, 1050W
Drilling capacity: 13 mm in steel max. 32 mm in wood max. 26 mm in concrete

The one on sale now does look a little different - the drill casing is
fancier. And it's clean ;-)


Looking at Bosch at twice the price the spec appears to be the same
but hopefully more reliable design and build quality .. but are they?


Well, there's a question! I do like Bosch tools, but I find the
Lidl/Aldi offerings work pretty well for me.

I think the only benefit to the Bosch would be if you needed to use it
every day. Even in my business I probably only use my SDS once a week.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

In article ,
David Lang wrote:
Well, there's a question! I do like Bosch tools, but I find the
Lidl/Aldi offerings work pretty well for me.

I think the only benefit to the Bosch would be if you needed to use it
every day. Even in my business I probably only use my SDS once a week.

I've a feeling some of the Lidl/Aldi power tools are actually made by
Bosch. Or Bosch gets some of theirs made by the same place as Lidl. To
many similarities for coincidence.

--
*He who laughs last has just realised the joke.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
David Lang wrote:
Well, there's a question! I do like Bosch tools, but I find the
Lidl/Aldi offerings work pretty well for me.

I think the only benefit to the Bosch would be if you needed to use it
every day. Even in my business I probably only use my SDS once a week.

I've a feeling some of the Lidl/Aldi power tools are actually made by
Bosch. Or Bosch gets some of theirs made by the same place as Lidl. To
many similarities for coincidence.

or the Chinese factory copies the Bosch design and sell these to Lidl/Aldi.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 02/05/2016 00:34, JoeJoe wrote:
My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?

Thanks all for you comments.

9am at Lidl on Thursday for me then.

On 02/05/2016 10:24, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2016 22:53:50 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

If you have some difficult walls to drill then you cannot beat an SDS drill,

Agreed.

our last house was built from over baked engineering bricks from a local brickyard, ordinary hammer drills just could not touch them. Then I got my trusty ELU and never looked back. My SDS also has a Jacobs chuck that fits in the SDS tool holder but I only use it in absolute desperation as it really is a kludge. The tool holders do not grip the SDS bits like a chuck, insert a drill bit and you can feel slight movement longitudenly. Insert the Jacobs chuck and it throws the whole balance of the machine and the accuracy.

Yup, ok in an emergency if you only have the SDS with you and then
find you have to go though some metal etc.

If you want to use it for drilling in other materials other than brick or concrete then you are better off paying the extra and getting twist drills that have an SDS tool end and fit directly into the tool holder.

Agreed. I think they are a bit more expensive and no so common
(especially in sets) but as you say, are available and you might just
need just a select few sizes (6, 8, 10mm)?

SDS drills are kind on the bits, I have a 7mm bit I bought over 20 years ago and it is still usable today despite seeing regular service.

That might be a record for a drill bit! ;-)

Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG

My Dad had some and I did use them to reasonable success when a lad.
Fairly slow going though! Funny that whilst obviously 'very old'
(60's?) in concept, hand powered drills have gone back thousands of
years.

What I did use the Rawlplug 'drills' more regularly for, pre 'hammer
drills' was breaking any stone you came across when drilling a hole
with an ordinary masonry bit and electric (or even hand) drill. One or
two hits with that and hammer and you could then drill through the
remains of the stone without burning the tip of your drill out (or the
hole going wildly off line).

Those were the days of regular use of the brace and bit, before the
advent of flat / speed drills for wood. ;-)

God yes! I also recall enlarging a hole in brick using a chisel in a
manner like your star-drill / Rawlplug drill.

Now such a hole takes minutes, not an hour of hard work!

On Mon, 2 May 2016 14:27:21 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG

My Dad had some and I did use them to reasonable success when a lad.
Fairly slow going though! Funny that whilst obviously 'very old'
(60's?) in concept, hand powered drills have gone back thousands of
years.

What I did use the Rawlplug 'drills' more regularly for, pre 'hammer
drills' was breaking any stone you came across when drilling a hole
with an ordinary masonry bit and electric (or even hand) drill. One or
two hits with that and hammer and you could then drill through the
remains of the stone without burning the tip of your drill out (or the
hole going wildly off line).

Those were the days of regular use of the brace and bit, before the
advent of flat / speed drills for wood. ;-)

God yes!

Cool, not just me then. ;-)

I also recall enlarging a hole in brick using a chisel in a
manner like your star-drill / Rawlplug drill.

Still done today, after you realise the core drill you just used is
just a bit too small. ;-(

Now such a hole takes minutes, not an hour of hard work!

The thing is ... and accepting doing the job for someone else for
money can be different from doing it for yourself for 'fun', I think
that sometimes there can be more satisfaction when you have done
something 'the old way', especially if that way gives you a better job
etc.

I think I'm saying that sometimes it's nice to say cut a piece of wood
by hand (well, using a saw g) and using your skills and techniques
to ensure the cut is true and square etc, as there is ending up with a
nice true cut after spending some time ensuring the guides on your
power saw are true etc. Craftsman versus machine operator?

Now, If I had to make 50 such cuts then I know the novelty would wear
off pretty fast but you get the idea. ;-)

My Dad was a pretty good d-i-y type carpenter and because I spent much
of my youth 'press ganged' as his helper or just 'weight' (when
sitting on wood he was cutting etc) it always amazed me to see a
perfect joint when sawn by hand and maybe just finished off with a
chisel or plane.

'Think thrice, measure twice, cut once' and that has saved me lots of
wasted material over the years (especially with what I think is a mild
for of numerical dyslexia. 1505 mm somehow becomes 1055 mm by the time
I transfer the measurement to the material).

Cheers, T i m

On 02/05/2016 10:24, T i m wrote:


Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG


Yes - perfect for making conical craters when you simply wanted a
screw-hole for the curtain rail near a lintel.


--
Reentrant

On 02/05/2016 13:51, JoeJoe wrote:
9am at Lidl on Thursday for me then.

Don't they open at 7? Be sold out by 9... :-)

--
Rod

On Mon, 2 May 2016 13:51:08 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

On 02/05/2016 00:34, JoeJoe wrote:
My (non-SDS) Bosch drill died last week, and I am looking for a
replacement.

I was initially going to spend something in the region of £100, but as I
do less DIY at the moment, I thought that perhaps the Lidl one at £40
will do. See
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-...etail&id=33298

I am looking for something reasonably powerful, as the walls in our
house are particularly tough, and for very occasional use.

Also, it appears that it comes with two chucks - SDS and "standard",
which would be useful as I have never used an SDS drill, so most of my
bits are standard.

Any thoughts please?

Thanks all for you comments.

9am at Lidl on Thursday for me then.

If it does as well as mine, from Lidl about 7 years ago, you'll be OK.
I managed to put a 117mm core drill through a standard cavity wall - quite a
lot of heat and noise, but the SDS was no where near as bad and handled it
very well considering the job was well outside its spec.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
On 02/05/2016 13:51, JoeJoe wrote:
9am at Lidl on Thursday for me then.

Don't they open at 7? Be sold out by 9... :-)

They don't seem to sell out the special offers that quickly round here
these days. But once did.

--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/05/2016 14:54, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 14:27:21 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG

My Dad had some and I did use them to reasonable success when a lad.
Fairly slow going though! Funny that whilst obviously 'very old'
(60's?) in concept, hand powered drills have gone back thousands of
years.

What I did use the Rawlplug 'drills' more regularly for, pre 'hammer
drills' was breaking any stone you came across when drilling a hole
with an ordinary masonry bit and electric (or even hand) drill. One or
two hits with that and hammer and you could then drill through the
remains of the stone without burning the tip of your drill out (or the
hole going wildly off line).

Those were the days of regular use of the brace and bit, before the
advent of flat / speed drills for wood. ;-)

God yes!

Cool, not just me then. ;-)

I also recall enlarging a hole in brick using a chisel in a
manner like your star-drill / Rawlplug drill.

Still done today, after you realise the core drill you just used is
just a bit too small. ;-(

Now such a hole takes minutes, not an hour of hard work!

The thing is ... and accepting doing the job for someone else for
money can be different from doing it for yourself for 'fun', I think
that sometimes there can be more satisfaction when you have done
something 'the old way', especially if that way gives you a better job
etc.

I think I'm saying that sometimes it's nice to say cut a piece of wood
by hand (well, using a saw g) and using your skills and techniques
to ensure the cut is true and square etc, as there is ending up with a
nice true cut after spending some time ensuring the guides on your
power saw are true etc. Craftsman versus machine operator?

When I started this handyman malarkey over 10 years ago I would always
use a chop or circular saw even for a single cut. Now I use a hand saw
(unless there are lots of cuts) it's a really nice feeling using a sharp
hand saw and getting a spot on result.

Even better, no finding a power point, extension lead etc. By the time
you've done that lot you could have finished the job.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

In article ,
David Lang wrote:
On 02/05/2016 14:54, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 14:27:21 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG

My Dad had some and I did use them to reasonable success when a lad.
Fairly slow going though! Funny that whilst obviously 'very old'
(60's?) in concept, hand powered drills have gone back thousands of
years.

What I did use the Rawlplug 'drills' more regularly for, pre 'hammer
drills' was breaking any stone you came across when drilling a hole
with an ordinary masonry bit and electric (or even hand) drill. One or
two hits with that and hammer and you could then drill through the
remains of the stone without burning the tip of your drill out (or the
hole going wildly off line).

Those were the days of regular use of the brace and bit, before the
advent of flat / speed drills for wood. ;-)

God yes!

Cool, not just me then. ;-)

I also recall enlarging a hole in brick using a chisel in a
manner like your star-drill / Rawlplug drill.

Still done today, after you realise the core drill you just used is
just a bit too small. ;-(

Now such a hole takes minutes, not an hour of hard work!

The thing is ... and accepting doing the job for someone else for
money can be different from doing it for yourself for 'fun', I think
that sometimes there can be more satisfaction when you have done
something 'the old way', especially if that way gives you a better job
etc.

I think I'm saying that sometimes it's nice to say cut a piece of wood
by hand (well, using a saw g) and using your skills and techniques
to ensure the cut is true and square etc, as there is ending up with a
nice true cut after spending some time ensuring the guides on your
power saw are true etc. Craftsman versus machine operator?

When I started this handyman malarkey over 10 years ago I would always
use a chop or circular saw even for a single cut. Now I use a hand saw
(unless there are lots of cuts) it's a really nice feeling using a sharp
hand saw and getting a spot on result.

A great many (about 50) years ago, when I was starting my tool collection,
I went into good tool store to buy a tenon saw. "Brass backed or steel
backed?" "What's the difference?" "Brass are better, but if you don't know
the difference you won't want one." It only took one job to decide I did
want a brass backed one. I still have that one.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

"RJH" wrote in message
...


Here's mine:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/47717472@N03/26165841493/

Looked at other photos.

Bloody hell that is bad rising damp at that Gallery in Sheffield!


--
Adam

On 02/05/2016 18:05, David Lang wrote:
On 02/05/2016 14:54, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 14:27:21 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG

My Dad had some and I did use them to reasonable success when a lad.
Fairly slow going though! Funny that whilst obviously 'very old'
(60's?) in concept, hand powered drills have gone back thousands of
years.

What I did use the Rawlplug 'drills' more regularly for, pre 'hammer
drills' was breaking any stone you came across when drilling a hole
with an ordinary masonry bit and electric (or even hand) drill. One or
two hits with that and hammer and you could then drill through the
remains of the stone without burning the tip of your drill out (or the
hole going wildly off line).

Those were the days of regular use of the brace and bit, before the
advent of flat / speed drills for wood. ;-)

God yes!

Cool, not just me then. ;-)

I also recall enlarging a hole in brick using a chisel in a
manner like your star-drill / Rawlplug drill.

Still done today, after you realise the core drill you just used is
just a bit too small. ;-(

Now such a hole takes minutes, not an hour of hard work!

The thing is ... and accepting doing the job for someone else for
money can be different from doing it for yourself for 'fun', I think
that sometimes there can be more satisfaction when you have done
something 'the old way', especially if that way gives you a better job
etc.

I think I'm saying that sometimes it's nice to say cut a piece of wood
by hand (well, using a saw g) and using your skills and techniques
to ensure the cut is true and square etc, as there is ending up with a
nice true cut after spending some time ensuring the guides on your
power saw are true etc. Craftsman versus machine operator?

When I started this handyman malarkey over 10 years ago I would always
use a chop or circular saw even for a single cut. Now I use a hand saw
(unless there are lots of cuts) it's a really nice feeling using a sharp
hand saw and getting a spot on result.

I was brought up on old saws that needed a lot of hard work to cut
anything. Last week I bought a Stanley saw for £7 and I was amazed how
it could cut! And of course the price. 40 years ago you would have paid
more than that.

Even better, no finding a power point, extension lead etc. By the time
you've done that lot you could have finished the job.

Quite.

On 02/05/2016 20:26, Fredxxx wrote:
On 02/05/2016 18:05, David Lang wrote:
On 02/05/2016 14:54, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 14:27:21 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG

My Dad had some and I did use them to reasonable success when a lad.
Fairly slow going though! Funny that whilst obviously 'very old'
(60's?) in concept, hand powered drills have gone back thousands of
years.

What I did use the Rawlplug 'drills' more regularly for, pre 'hammer
drills' was breaking any stone you came across when drilling a hole
with an ordinary masonry bit and electric (or even hand) drill. One or
two hits with that and hammer and you could then drill through the
remains of the stone without burning the tip of your drill out (or the
hole going wildly off line).

Those were the days of regular use of the brace and bit, before the
advent of flat / speed drills for wood. ;-)

God yes!

Cool, not just me then. ;-)

I also recall enlarging a hole in brick using a chisel in a
manner like your star-drill / Rawlplug drill.

Still done today, after you realise the core drill you just used is
just a bit too small. ;-(

Now such a hole takes minutes, not an hour of hard work!

The thing is ... and accepting doing the job for someone else for
money can be different from doing it for yourself for 'fun', I think
that sometimes there can be more satisfaction when you have done
something 'the old way', especially if that way gives you a better job
etc.

I think I'm saying that sometimes it's nice to say cut a piece of wood
by hand (well, using a saw g) and using your skills and techniques
to ensure the cut is true and square etc, as there is ending up with a
nice true cut after spending some time ensuring the guides on your
power saw are true etc. Craftsman versus machine operator?

When I started this handyman malarkey over 10 years ago I would always
use a chop or circular saw even for a single cut. Now I use a hand saw
(unless there are lots of cuts) it's a really nice feeling using a sharp
hand saw and getting a spot on result.

I was brought up on old saws that needed a lot of hard work to cut
anything. Last week I bought a Stanley saw for £7 and I was amazed how
it could cut! And of course the price. 40 years ago you would have paid
more than that.

I just bought a Bahco from Toolstation, about £8. It's like a razor
blade, incredibly sharp.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

David Lang wrote:

Fredxxx wrote:

I was brought up on old saws that needed a lot of hard work to cut
anything. Last week I bought a Stanley saw for £7 and I was amazed how
it could cut! And of course the price. 40 years ago you would have paid
more than that.

I just bought a Bahco from Toolstation, about £8. It's like a razor
blade, incredibly sharp.

Their 'prizecut' ones are good for finer work too.

"David Lang" wrote in message
...
On 02/05/2016 14:54, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 14:27:21 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG

My Dad had some and I did use them to reasonable success when a lad.
Fairly slow going though! Funny that whilst obviously 'very old'
(60's?) in concept, hand powered drills have gone back thousands of
years.

What I did use the Rawlplug 'drills' more regularly for, pre 'hammer
drills' was breaking any stone you came across when drilling a hole
with an ordinary masonry bit and electric (or even hand) drill. One or
two hits with that and hammer and you could then drill through the
remains of the stone without burning the tip of your drill out (or the
hole going wildly off line).

Those were the days of regular use of the brace and bit, before the
advent of flat / speed drills for wood. ;-)

God yes!

Cool, not just me then. ;-)

I also recall enlarging a hole in brick using a chisel in a
manner like your star-drill / Rawlplug drill.

Still done today, after you realise the core drill you just used is
just a bit too small. ;-(

Now such a hole takes minutes, not an hour of hard work!

The thing is ... and accepting doing the job for someone else for
money can be different from doing it for yourself for 'fun', I think
that sometimes there can be more satisfaction when you have done
something 'the old way', especially if that way gives you a better job
etc.

I think I'm saying that sometimes it's nice to say cut a piece of wood
by hand (well, using a saw g) and using your skills and techniques
to ensure the cut is true and square etc, as there is ending up with a
nice true cut after spending some time ensuring the guides on your
power saw are true etc. Craftsman versus machine operator?

When I started this handyman malarkey over 10 years ago I would always use
a chop or circular saw even for a single cut. Now I use a hand saw
(unless there are lots of cuts) it's a really nice feeling using a sharp
hand saw and getting a spot on result.

Even better, no finding a power point, extension lead etc. By the time
you've done that lot you could have finished the job.

OTOH a decent cordless circular saw fixes all those problems and
gives a lot better result than a hand saw and much more quickly too.

David Lang Wrote in message:
On 02/05/2016 20:26, Fredxxx wrote:
On 02/05/2016 18:05, David Lang wrote:
On 02/05/2016 14:54, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 14:27:21 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Anyone remember these:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/eVkAAOSwKtlWs1eM/$_35.JPG

My Dad had some and I did use them to reasonable success when a lad.
Fairly slow going though! Funny that whilst obviously 'very old'
(60's?) in concept, hand powered drills have gone back thousands of
years.

What I did use the Rawlplug 'drills' more regularly for, pre 'hammer
drills' was breaking any stone you came across when drilling a hole
with an ordinary masonry bit and electric (or even hand) drill. One or
two hits with that and hammer and you could then drill through the
remains of the stone without burning the tip of your drill out (or the
hole going wildly off line).

Those were the days of regular use of the brace and bit, before the
advent of flat / speed drills for wood. ;-)

God yes!

Cool, not just me then. ;-)

I also recall enlarging a hole in brick using a chisel in a
manner like your star-drill / Rawlplug drill.

Still done today, after you realise the core drill you just used is
just a bit too small. ;-(

Now such a hole takes minutes, not an hour of hard work!

The thing is ... and accepting doing the job for someone else for
money can be different from doing it for yourself for 'fun', I think
that sometimes there can be more satisfaction when you have done
something 'the old way', especially if that way gives you a better job
etc.

I think I'm saying that sometimes it's nice to say cut a piece of wood
by hand (well, using a saw g) and using your skills and techniques
to ensure the cut is true and square etc, as there is ending up with a
nice true cut after spending some time ensuring the guides on your
power saw are true etc. Craftsman versus machine operator?

When I started this handyman malarkey over 10 years ago I would always
use a chop or circular saw even for a single cut. Now I use a hand saw
(unless there are lots of cuts) it's a really nice feeling using a sharp
hand saw and getting a spot on result.

I was brought up on old saws that needed a lot of hard work to cut
anything. Last week I bought a Stanley saw for £7 and I was amazed how
it could cut! And of course the price. 40 years ago you would have paid
more than that.

I just bought a Bahco from Toolstation, about £8. It's like a razor
blade, incredibly sharp.



My favourite too :-)

--
Jim K


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