Talking about old files and compatibility in another thread reminded me
that I have a folder (directory!) of WP 5.1 files that I have never been
able to access successfully, without WP. I know I have the original WP
installation floppies somewhere, but where? Pity I don't have a
suitable drive now.

Anyway, a quick search found http://www.oldversion.com/ and there was
WP5.1 which I downloaded and installed, and it works! Amazing. TBH,
there is nothing there that I particularly need, but quite fun to browse
through old correspondence.

Point is, if you have old inaccessible files, that site is a good place
to find a matching program.
--
Graeme

On Sunday, 1 May 2016 11:54:44 UTC+1, News wrote:
Anyway, a quick search found http://www.oldversion.com/ and there was
WP5.1 which I downloaded and installed, and it works! Amazing. TBH,
there is nothing there that I particularly need, but quite fun to browse
through old correspondence.

Almost tempted to try Adobe Acrobat Reader v.1 for DOS.

Owain

On Sunday, 1 May 2016 11:54:44 UTC+1, News wrote:
Talking about old files and compatibility in another thread reminded me
that I have a folder (directory!) of WP 5.1 files that I have never been
able to access successfully, without WP. I know I have the original WP
installation floppies somewhere, but where? Pity I don't have a
suitable drive now.

Anyway, a quick search found http://www.oldversion.com/ and there was
WP5.1 which I downloaded and installed, and it works! Amazing. TBH,
there is nothing there that I particularly need, but quite fun to browse
through old correspondence.

Point is, if you have old inaccessible files, that site is a good place
to find a matching program.

There are online conversion website. If you can get the files open with Wordpro or Notepad you can export them to Outlook of google docs. I used to find that just changing the file extension on old text files would get them opened in Word or Note ~pad.

Office Libre should just open them with no query, I'm not absolutely sure but that never bothers to ask about my ancient Microsoft stuff. If Word is being an arse, migrate.

On 01/05/2016 11:54, News wrote:

Talking about old files and compatibility in another thread reminded me
that I have a folder (directory!) of WP 5.1 files that I have never been
able to access successfully, without WP. I know I have the original WP
installation floppies somewhere, but where? Pity I don't have a
suitable drive now.

Anyway, a quick search found http://www.oldversion.com/ and there was
WP5.1 which I downloaded and installed, and it works! Amazing. TBH,
there is nothing there that I particularly need, but quite fun to browse
through old correspondence.

Point is, if you have old inaccessible files, that site is a good place
to find a matching program.

That reminds me of when the company I was working at switched from
Wordperfect to Word in the mid nineties. We had a large number of S20
data sheets (instrument specifications) in WP format. As they were a
standard ISA (Instrument Society of America) sheet, the automatic page
numbering was 1/3 of the way down the sheet, not in the header or
footer. We discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked perfectly,
but we couldn't create new sheets in this long established format, as
Microsoft never considered that you'd want a page number anywhere but in
the header or footer and didn't give an option to place one elsewhere!

On Sunday, 1 May 2016 21:39:36 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
Microsoft never considered that you'd want a page number anywhere but in
the header or footer and didn't give an option to place one elsewhere!

There were so many things that Word couldn't do that WordPerfect can ... proper labels for example. Word does full-page tables, which sounds fine until you want to do tables on lables.

Owain

On 01/05/2016 21:39, Steve Walker wrote:
We discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked perfectly, but we
couldn't create new sheets in this long established format, as Microsoft
never considered that you'd want a page number anywhere but in the
header or footer and didn't give an option to place one elsewhere!

Odd - certainly I can put a page number anywhere using Word 2016. If you
had asked, I'd have been pretty sure I could place a page number field
anywhere, right back to an early Word for the Mac.

Word 2016 also seems to allow opening of WP 5.1 files directly - at
least, it offers the choice in the file open dialogue! But I haven't got
any WP5.1 documents to try.

--
Rod

On 01/05/16 21:48, wrote:
On Sunday, 1 May 2016 21:39:36 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
Microsoft never considered that you'd want a page number anywhere but in
the header or footer and didn't give an option to place one elsewhere!

There were so many things that Word couldn't do that WordPerfect can ... proper labels for example. Word does full-page tables, which sounds fine until you want to do tables on lables.

Owain


And when WP buggered it up, you did a reveal-codes at which point it was
usually apparent what had happened.

I remember in around 1988 being in awe of a reasonably decent page
preview with block graphics on a Wyse-85 terminal! (VT220 style).

On 01/05/2016 22:00, polygonum wrote:
On 01/05/2016 21:39, Steve Walker wrote:
We discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked perfectly, but we
couldn't create new sheets in this long established format, as Microsoft
never considered that you'd want a page number anywhere but in the
header or footer and didn't give an option to place one elsewhere!

Odd - certainly I can put a page number anywhere using Word 2016. If you
had asked, I'd have been pretty sure I could place a page number field
anywhere, right back to an early Word for the Mac.

Word 2016 also seems to allow opening of WP 5.1 files directly - at
least, it offers the choice in the file open dialogue! But I haven't got
any WP5.1 documents to try.

You certainly couldn't then. We had a number of long discussions with
support at Microsoft, as these were standardised documents used
internationally that we did not want to change the format of. In the end
we gave up and continued to create them in WP and import them into Word
to get around the problem.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 01/05/2016 11:54, News wrote:
That reminds me of when the company I was working at switched from
Wordperfect to Word in the mid nineties. We had a large number of S20 data
sheets (instrument specifications) in WP format. As they were a standard
ISA (Instrument Society of America) sheet, the automatic page numbering
was 1/3 of the way down the sheet, not in the header or footer. We
discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked perfectly, but we
couldn't create new sheets in this long established format, as Microsoft
never considered that you'd want a page number anywhere but in the header
or footer and didn't give an option to place one elsewhere!


In a Word footer a field code {page} gets displayed as the page number. You
can actually add a text box anywhere on the page, containing {page}, as part
of the footer but outside the footer area instead of inside. The page number
will be displayed where you put it.
--
Dave W

On 02/05/2016 18:44, Tim Streater wrote:

Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page? So
that I can say (f'rinstance) "See Page 27 for more details" and the 27
updates automatically if it changes?

You certainly could. Seems to come under Cross Reference on the Insert
ribbon in Word 2016. You can choose what sort of reference which
includes the option of page number.

--
Rod

On 2016-05-02 17:44:14 +0000, Tim Streater said:

In article , Dave W
wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 01/05/2016 11:54, News wrote:
That reminds me of when the company I was working at switched from
Wordperfect to Word in the mid nineties. We had a large number of S20
data sheets (instrument specifications) in WP format. As they were a
standard ISA (Instrument Society of America) sheet, the automatic page
numbering was 1/3 of the way down the sheet, not in the header or
footer. We discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked perfectly,
but we couldn't create new sheets in this long established format, as
Microsoft never considered that you'd want a page number anywhere but
in the header or footer and didn't give an option to place one
elsewhere!

In a Word footer a field code {page} gets displayed as the page number.
You can actually add a text box anywhere on the page, containing
{page}, as part of the footer but outside the footer area instead of
inside. The page number will be displayed where you put it.

Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page? So
that I can say (f'rinstance) "See Page 27 for more details" and the 27
updates automatically if it changes?
That is effectively what the contents list function does so I am sure
it is possible with a bit of research.

On 02/05/2016 18:44, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave W
wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 01/05/2016 11:54, News wrote:
That reminds me of when the company I was working at switched from
Wordperfect to Word in the mid nineties. We had a large number of S20
data sheets (instrument specifications) in WP format. As they were a
standard ISA (Instrument Society of America) sheet, the automatic
page numbering was 1/3 of the way down the sheet, not in the header
or footer. We discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked
perfectly, but we couldn't create new sheets in this long established
format, as Microsoft never considered that you'd want a page number
anywhere but in the header or footer and didn't give an option to
place one elsewhere!

In a Word footer a field code {page} gets displayed as the page
number. You can actually add a text box anywhere on the page,
containing {page}, as part of the footer but outside the footer area
instead of inside. The page number will be displayed where you put it.

Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page? So
that I can say (f'rinstance) "See Page 27 for more details" and the 27
updates automatically if it changes?

A cross reference? Yes you can... like most things Word, its a bit
feeble compared to the WP version, but that much at least works.

The things I had difficulty with[1] in Word were where you wanted cross
references to multiple versions of the same target. For example on one
documentation standard I worked on, they wanted a list of affected pages
in the front of each technical manual that indicated which design change
requests affected which page. In WP it was quite easy to go through
updating a document in accordance with a software or design change
request document, and just dropping a target of the SCR or DCR number in
as a reference along side each change. So you would include say
"SCR1234" as a target. Then in the "affected pages" page just enter
SCR1234 as a page number cross reference that to that target, and it
would automatically spit out a list of page numbers. Combine that with
the WP compare versions capability to sidebar changes and you were
nicely sorted. IIRC it even worked when the cross reference targets were
in sub documents rather than the one with the cross ref list in it.


[1] It was a while ago - and I have not had a need to do deep technical
docs in word recently, so have not investigated if it has got any better.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/05/2016 19:18, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , polygonum
wrote:

On 02/05/2016 18:44, Tim Streater wrote:

Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page? So
that I can say (f'rinstance) "See Page 27 for more details" and the 27
updates automatically if it changes?

You certainly could. Seems to come under Cross Reference on the Insert
ribbon in Word 2016. You can choose what sort of reference which
includes the option of page number.

I'm still on Office 2008, which although frustrating in the usual ways
for a number of reasons, still works well enough. I'm also reluctant to
ante up £120 to get Office 2016 Mac. Perhaps I should explore 2008 to
see if any reference stuff shows up.

Because I need to use Office 2016 for work reasons, that is all I have
installed. Otherwise I would have checked it in an earlier version.
Mind, there are not that many significant differences between 2013 and 2016.

--
Rod

On 02/05/2016 18:59, Bruce wrote:
On 2016-05-02 17:44:14 +0000, Tim Streater said:

In article , Dave W
wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 01/05/2016 11:54, News wrote:
That reminds me of when the company I was working at switched from
Wordperfect to Word in the mid nineties. We had a large number of
S20 data sheets (instrument specifications) in WP format. As they
were a standard ISA (Instrument Society of America) sheet, the
automatic page numbering was 1/3 of the way down the sheet, not in
the header or footer. We discovered that WP docs imported into Word
worked perfectly, but we couldn't create new sheets in this long
established format, as Microsoft never considered that you'd want a
page number anywhere but in the header or footer and didn't give an
option to place one elsewhere!

In a Word footer a field code {page} gets displayed as the page
number. You can actually add a text box anywhere on the page,
containing {page}, as part of the footer but outside the footer area
instead of inside. The page number will be displayed where you put it.

Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page? So
that I can say (f'rinstance) "See Page 27 for more details" and the 27
updates automatically if it changes?
That is effectively what the contents list function does so I am sure
it is possible with a bit of research.

I would imagine that the 2008 Mac version is not dissimilar to the
windows 2007 or 2010 versions...

In which case, from the Insert tab, use the bookmark feature to insert a
named bookmark on the page you want to reference. Now in the place you
want to link to it, use the cross reference item, and set the reference
type to "bookmark" and set the "Insert reference to" option to Page
number. Then just select the relevant bookmark from the list and click
insert.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 03:27:41 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
In which case, from the Insert tab, use the bookmark feature to insert a
named bookmark on the page you want to reference. Now in the place you
want to link to it, use the cross reference item, and set the reference
type to "bookmark" and set the "Insert reference to" option to Page
number. Then just select the relevant bookmark from the list and click
insert.

That of course assumes you have already written the bit you are cross-referring to.

With WP you could put in a source or target reference without the other existing, and then match them up later. Together with Reveal Codes to see exactly what was being referred to.

Aaaah, happy days.

Owain

Steve Walker wrote:

On 01/05/2016 22:00, polygonum wrote:
On 01/05/2016 21:39, Steve Walker wrote:
We discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked perfectly, but we
couldn't create new sheets in this long established format, as Microsoft
never considered that you'd want a page number anywhere but in the
header or footer and didn't give an option to place one elsewhere!

Odd - certainly I can put a page number anywhere using Word 2016. If you
had asked, I'd have been pretty sure I could place a page number field
anywhere, right back to an early Word for the Mac.

Word 2016 also seems to allow opening of WP 5.1 files directly - at
least, it offers the choice in the file open dialogue! But I haven't got
any WP5.1 documents to try.

You certainly couldn't then. We had a number of long discussions with
support at Microsoft, as these were standardised documents used
internationally that we did not want to change the format of. In the end
we gave up and continued to create them in WP and import them into Word
to get around the problem.

Surely Word has been able to insert field codes, one of which is
page, for a very long time?

Was the actual problem that you couldn't anchor it in the middle
of the page? That might have given some difficulty.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 02/05/2016 19:18, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , polygonum
wrote:

On 02/05/2016 18:44, Tim Streater wrote:

Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page? So
that I can say (f'rinstance) "See Page 27 for more details" and the 27
updates automatically if it changes?

You certainly could. Seems to come under Cross Reference on the Insert
ribbon in Word 2016. You can choose what sort of reference which
includes the option of page number.

I'm still on Office 2008, which although frustrating in the usual ways
for a number of reasons, still works well enough. I'm also reluctant to
ante up £120 to get Office 2016 Mac. Perhaps I should explore 2008 to
see if any reference stuff shows up.


I use Office 2003, still.

"Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page?"
Insert a bookmark, then can cross-reference from elsewhere to the page
number of that bookmark.

So should work in 2008, even if that's a mac version.

On 02/05/2016 19:06, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2016 18:44, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave W
wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 01/05/2016 11:54, News wrote:
That reminds me of when the company I was working at switched from
Wordperfect to Word in the mid nineties. We had a large number of S20
data sheets (instrument specifications) in WP format. As they were a
standard ISA (Instrument Society of America) sheet, the automatic
page numbering was 1/3 of the way down the sheet, not in the header
or footer. We discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked
perfectly, but we couldn't create new sheets in this long established
format, as Microsoft never considered that you'd want a page number
anywhere but in the header or footer and didn't give an option to
place one elsewhere!

In a Word footer a field code {page} gets displayed as the page
number. You can actually add a text box anywhere on the page,
containing {page}, as part of the footer but outside the footer area
instead of inside. The page number will be displayed where you put it.

Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page? So
that I can say (f'rinstance) "See Page 27 for more details" and the 27
updates automatically if it changes?

A cross reference? Yes you can... like most things Word, its a bit
feeble compared to the WP version, but that much at least works.

The things I had difficulty with[1] in Word were where you wanted cross
references to multiple versions of the same target. For example on one
documentation standard I worked on, they wanted a list of affected pages
in the front of each technical manual that indicated which design change
requests affected which page. In WP it was quite easy to go through
updating a document in accordance with a software or design change
request document, and just dropping a target of the SCR or DCR number in
as a reference along side each change. So you would include say
"SCR1234" as a target. Then in the "affected pages" page just enter
SCR1234 as a page number cross reference that to that target, and it
would automatically spit out a list of page numbers. Combine that with
the WP compare versions capability to sidebar changes and you were
nicely sorted. IIRC it even worked when the cross reference targets were
in sub documents rather than the one with the cross ref list in it.


[1] It was a while ago - and I have not had a need to do deep technical
docs in word recently, so have not investigated if it has got any better.


You apply a new format style to the changed text - the style might look
exactly the same as the ordinary text. Then, you can make a table of
contents of just that style.

It's not something I've ever had to do, but I'm pretty sure it will work
very easily.

On 03/05/2016 08:28, wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 03:27:41 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
In which case, from the Insert tab, use the bookmark feature to
insert a named bookmark on the page you want to reference. Now in
the place you want to link to it, use the cross reference item, and
set the reference type to "bookmark" and set the "Insert reference
to" option to Page number. Then just select the relevant bookmark
from the list and click insert.

That of course assumes you have already written the bit you are
cross-referring to.

Indeed - WP assumed you were a big boy, while Word wants to play Mummy!

With WP you could put in a source or target reference without the
other existing, and then match them up later. Together with Reveal
Codes to see exactly what was being referred to.

Aaaah, happy days.

Its partly down to completely different internal architectures - WP used
embedded controls in much the same way as XML uses tags - notionally
they come in pairs and denote a "block", but you could create them
individually and it could cope with them not being properly nested. Word
on the other hand does not seem to have individual tags as such, but
only attributes that can be applied to a block - so even if you give it
a "reveal codes" type capability, its never going to work in the same way.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/05/2016 16:12, John Rumm wrote:

Its partly down to completely different internal architectures - WP used
embedded controls in much the same way as XML uses tags - notionally
they come in pairs and denote a "block", but you could create them
individually and it could cope with them not being properly nested. Word
on the other hand does not seem to have individual tags as such, but
only attributes that can be applied to a block - so even if you give it
a "reveal codes" type capability, its never going to work in the same way.

What does it look like in the XML now? (.docx is zipped XML).

On 03/05/2016 16:32, Clive George wrote:
On 03/05/2016 16:12, John Rumm wrote:

Its partly down to completely different internal architectures - WP used
embedded controls in much the same way as XML uses tags - notionally
they come in pairs and denote a "block", but you could create them
individually and it could cope with them not being properly nested. Word
on the other hand does not seem to have individual tags as such, but
only attributes that can be applied to a block - so even if you give it
a "reveal codes" type capability, its never going to work in the same
way.

What does it look like in the XML now? (.docx is zipped XML).

Good question - I have not looked... lets see:

Well for a test doc I just created with the content of:

"Test Document *bold* _underline_ normal again"

You get XML with a block created for each section - the "Test Document"
in the first, then a separate "bold" one, then the "underline" and
lastly the "normal again", with appropriate tags specified for the whole
section:

?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?
w:document
xmlns:wpc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingCanvas"
xmlns:mc="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006"
xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships"
xmlns:m="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/math"
xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns:wp14="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingDrawing"
xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing"
xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:word"
xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main"
xmlns:w14="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordml"
xmlns:wpg="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingGroup"
xmlns:wpi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingInk"
xmlns:wne="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2006/wordml"
xmlns:wps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingShape"
mc:Ignorable="w14 wp14"
w:body
w w:rsidR="00342492" w:rsidRDefault="001C4AF8"
w:r
w:t xml:space="preserve"Test Document /w:t
/w:r
w:r w:rsidRPr="001C4AF8"
w:rPr
w:b/
/w:rPr
w:tbold/w:t
/w:r
w:r
w:t xml:space="preserve"
/w:t
/w:r
w:bookmarkStart w:id="0" w:name="_GoBack"/
w:bookmarkEnd w:id="0"/
w:r w:rsidRPr="001C4AF8"
w:rPr
w:u w:val="single"/
/w:rPr
w:tunderline/w:t
/w:r
w:r
w:t xml:space="preserve" normal again/w:t
/w:r
/w
w:sectPr w:rsidR="00342492"
wgSz w:w="11906" w:h="16838"/
wgMar w:top="1440" w:right="1440" w:bottom="1440"
w:left="1440" w:header="708" w:footer="708" w:gutter="0"/
w:cols w:space="708"/
w:docGrid w:linePitch="360"/
/w:sectPr
/w:body
/w:document


If I now edit the doc and place a italic section that spans some of the
"bold" and the "underline" bits you get:



?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?
w:document
xmlns:wpc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingCanvas"
xmlns:mc="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006"
xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships"
xmlns:m="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/math"
xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns:wp14="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingDrawing"
xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing"
xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:word"
xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main"
xmlns:w14="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordml"
xmlns:wpg="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingGroup"
xmlns:wpi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingInk"
xmlns:wne="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2006/wordml"
xmlns:wps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2010/wordprocessingShape"
mc:Ignorable="w14 wp14"
w:body
w w:rsidR="00342492" w:rsidRDefault="001C4AF8"
w:r
w:t xml:space="preserve"Test Document /w:t
/w:r
w:r w:rsidRPr="001C4AF8"
w:rPr
w:b/
/w:rPr
w:tbo/w:t
/w:r
w:r w:rsidRPr="00D66634"
w:rPr
w:b/
w:i/
/w:rPr
w:tld/w:t
/w:r
w:r w:rsidRPr="00D66634"
w:rPr
w:i/
/w:rPr
w:t xml:space="preserve"
/w:t
/w:r
w:r w:rsidRPr="00D66634"
w:rPr
w:i/
w:u w:val="single"/
/w:rPr
w:tunde/w:t
/w:r
w:r w:rsidRPr="001C4AF8"
w:rPr
w:u w:val="single"/
/w:rPr
w:tr/w:t
/w:r
w:bookmarkStart w:id="0" w:name="_GoBack"/
w:bookmarkEnd w:id="0"/
w:r w:rsidRPr="001C4AF8"
w:rPr
w:u w:val="single"/
/w:rPr
w:tline/w:t
/w:r
w:r
w:t xml:space="preserve" normal again/w:t
/w:r
/w
w:sectPr w:rsidR="00342492"
wgSz w:w="11906" w:h="16838"/
wgMar w:top="1440" w:right="1440" w:bottom="1440"
w:left="1440" w:header="708" w:footer="708" w:gutter="0"/
w:cols w:space="708"/
w:docGrid w:linePitch="360"/
/w:sectPr
/w:body
/w:document


So basically it has maintained the proper XML nesting of the sections
and created extra blocks to prevent there being any skewed or overlapped
tags.

So quite different from the WP way which would have no qualms about doing:

"Test Document [b]b[i]old[b] [u]unde[i]rline[u] normal again"


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 03/05/2016 13:27, GB wrote:
On 02/05/2016 19:06, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2016 18:44, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave W
wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 01/05/2016 11:54, News wrote:
That reminds me of when the company I was working at switched from
Wordperfect to Word in the mid nineties. We had a large number of S20
data sheets (instrument specifications) in WP format. As they were a
standard ISA (Instrument Society of America) sheet, the automatic
page numbering was 1/3 of the way down the sheet, not in the header
or footer. We discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked
perfectly, but we couldn't create new sheets in this long established
format, as Microsoft never considered that you'd want a page number
anywhere but in the header or footer and didn't give an option to
place one elsewhere!

In a Word footer a field code {page} gets displayed as the page
number. You can actually add a text box anywhere on the page,
containing {page}, as part of the footer but outside the footer area
instead of inside. The page number will be displayed where you put it.

Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page? So
that I can say (f'rinstance) "See Page 27 for more details" and the 27
updates automatically if it changes?

A cross reference? Yes you can... like most things Word, its a bit
feeble compared to the WP version, but that much at least works.

The things I had difficulty with[1] in Word were where you wanted cross
references to multiple versions of the same target. For example on one
documentation standard I worked on, they wanted a list of affected pages
in the front of each technical manual that indicated which design change
requests affected which page. In WP it was quite easy to go through
updating a document in accordance with a software or design change
request document, and just dropping a target of the SCR or DCR number in
as a reference along side each change. So you would include say
"SCR1234" as a target. Then in the "affected pages" page just enter
SCR1234 as a page number cross reference that to that target, and it
would automatically spit out a list of page numbers. Combine that with
the WP compare versions capability to sidebar changes and you were
nicely sorted. IIRC it even worked when the cross reference targets were
in sub documents rather than the one with the cross ref list in it.


[1] It was a while ago - and I have not had a need to do deep technical
docs in word recently, so have not investigated if it has got any better.


You apply a new format style to the changed text - the style might look
exactly the same as the ordinary text. Then, you can make a table of
contents of just that style.

It's not something I've ever had to do, but I'm pretty sure it will work
very easily.

Yup, kind of... you might get better results with an index. You don't
really get enough control over the layout though. Ideally you want
something quite compact like:

Change Request Affected Pages
SCR0001 1,6,7,20,22,24,69,203
SCR0122 6,66,70,71,72,74

etc where you may have several hundred change requests on a new version
of a doc, ans some of those may affect many tens or even hundreds of
pages. You may also have (say) the same request affecting three separate
parts of what turn out to be the same page, and you only want the page
listed once against the SCR.

There are probably better places to start than with a Word doc anyway -
especially if you need to do traceability matrices[1] between
hierarchies of documents.

[1] e.g. a software design doc may have a matrix that lists every
numbered requirement that features in the software requirements spec,
and directs the reader to all the sections of the design that implement
each requirement, then a second matrix that lists every section of deign
and identifies which requirement is is derived from. A right royal PITA
to maintain manually - especially if there are lots of layers of docs
with relationships flowing up and down.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/05/2016 17:42, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/05/2016 13:27, GB wrote:
On 02/05/2016 19:06, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2016 18:44, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave W
wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 01/05/2016 11:54, News wrote:
That reminds me of when the company I was working at switched from
Wordperfect to Word in the mid nineties. We had a large number of S20
data sheets (instrument specifications) in WP format. As they were a
standard ISA (Instrument Society of America) sheet, the automatic
page numbering was 1/3 of the way down the sheet, not in the header
or footer. We discovered that WP docs imported into Word worked
perfectly, but we couldn't create new sheets in this long established
format, as Microsoft never considered that you'd want a page number
anywhere but in the header or footer and didn't give an option to
place one elsewhere!

In a Word footer a field code {page} gets displayed as the page
number. You can actually add a text box anywhere on the page,
containing {page}, as part of the footer but outside the footer area
instead of inside. The page number will be displayed where you put it.

Can I get the page number of *another* page displayed on a page? So
that I can say (f'rinstance) "See Page 27 for more details" and the 27
updates automatically if it changes?

A cross reference? Yes you can... like most things Word, its a bit
feeble compared to the WP version, but that much at least works.

The things I had difficulty with[1] in Word were where you wanted cross
references to multiple versions of the same target. For example on one
documentation standard I worked on, they wanted a list of affected pages
in the front of each technical manual that indicated which design change
requests affected which page. In WP it was quite easy to go through
updating a document in accordance with a software or design change
request document, and just dropping a target of the SCR or DCR number in
as a reference along side each change. So you would include say
"SCR1234" as a target. Then in the "affected pages" page just enter
SCR1234 as a page number cross reference that to that target, and it
would automatically spit out a list of page numbers. Combine that with
the WP compare versions capability to sidebar changes and you were
nicely sorted. IIRC it even worked when the cross reference targets were
in sub documents rather than the one with the cross ref list in it.


[1] It was a while ago - and I have not had a need to do deep technical
docs in word recently, so have not investigated if it has got any
better.


You apply a new format style to the changed text - the style might look
exactly the same as the ordinary text. Then, you can make a table of
contents of just that style.

It's not something I've ever had to do, but I'm pretty sure it will work
very easily.

Yup, kind of... you might get better results with an index. You don't
really get enough control over the layout though. Ideally you want
something quite compact like:

Change Request Affected Pages
SCR0001 1,6,7,20,22,24,69,203
SCR0122 6,66,70,71,72,74

You're right. An index would work better.



etc where you may have several hundred change requests on a new version
of a doc, ans some of those may affect many tens or even hundreds of
pages. You may also have (say) the same request affecting three separate
parts of what turn out to be the same page, and you only want the page
listed once against the SCR.

There are probably better places to start than with a Word doc anyway -
especially if you need to do traceability matrices[1] between
hierarchies of documents.

[1] e.g. a software design doc may have a matrix that lists every
numbered requirement that features in the software requirements spec,
and directs the reader to all the sections of the design that implement
each requirement, then a second matrix that lists every section of deign
and identifies which requirement is is derived from. A right royal PITA
to maintain manually - especially if there are lots of layers of docs
with relationships flowing up and down.

But the doc is only part of it. What about the software itself? Why
can't the doc and the software be maintained on the same system?

On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 18:29:20 UTC+1, GB wrote:
There are probably better places to start than with a Word doc anyway -
especially if you need to do traceability matrices[1] between
hierarchies of documents.
But the doc is only part of it. What about the software itself? Why
can't the doc and the software be maintained on the same system?

If you use a Tex / roff / Docbook based system i.e. plain text with markup then you can, and run the text through a processor to produce PDF, HTML, etc.

Owain

On 03/05/2016 18:29, GB wrote:
On 03/05/2016 17:42, John Rumm wrote:

[1] e.g. a software design doc may have a matrix that lists every
numbered requirement that features in the software requirements spec,
and directs the reader to all the sections of the design that implement
each requirement, then a second matrix that lists every section of deign
and identifies which requirement is is derived from. A right royal PITA
to maintain manually - especially if there are lots of layers of docs
with relationships flowing up and down.

But the doc is only part of it. What about the software itself? Why
can't the doc and the software be maintained on the same system?

In theory they can, although it rarely seems to happen in reality (quite
often because the kind of projects that require documentation that
formal and rigorous tend to be military applications, where the docs
will be created some time before the code - and they normally want the
code written in some geriatric development environment that predates
IDEs, and possibly even interactive terminals!) ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/