Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one? Only for a
1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

My guess is it will only work where the car battery is only slightly too
low to start the car. Willing to bet it wouldn't work with no car battery
in place, or totally flat. So rather like most jump start packs.

--
*WHOSE CRUEL IDEA WAS IT FOR THE WORD 'LISP' TO HAVE 'S' IN IT?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

My guess is it will only work where the car battery is only slightly too
low to start the car. Willing to bet it wouldn't work with no car battery
in place, or totally flat. So rather like most jump start packs.

Does it have a large capacitor charged up by the batteries so that there
is an initial "thump" of charge to get the engine going?

Alan

--


Using an ARMX6

In article ,
Alan Dawes wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

My guess is it will only work where the car battery is only slightly
too low to start the car. Willing to bet it wouldn't work with no car
battery in place, or totally flat. So rather like most jump start
packs.

Does it have a large capacitor charged up by the batteries so that there
is an initial "thump" of charge to get the engine going?

Would need to be a pretty large capacitor. ;-)

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

My guess is it will only work where the car battery is only slightly too
low to start the car. Willing to bet it wouldn't work with no car battery
in place, or totally flat. So rather like most jump start packs.


You might be surprised. Okay, this clip is an ad but there are plenty
reviews of similar devices starting V8 engines with NO battery (other than
the jump starter obviously).

http://youtu.be/9Zyv5kztfU8

Tim

In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

My guess is it will only work where the car battery is only slightly
too low to start the car. Willing to bet it wouldn't work with no car
battery in place, or totally flat. So rather like most jump start
packs.


You might be surprised. Okay, this clip is an ad but there are plenty
reviews of similar devices starting V8 engines with NO battery (other than
the jump starter obviously).

http://youtu.be/9Zyv5kztfU8

Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive? Was the engine cold or
hot? How long is the warranty?

Be nice to hear from someone who owns one.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/12/2015 13:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

My guess is it will only work where the car battery is only slightly
too low to start the car. Willing to bet it wouldn't work with no car
battery in place, or totally flat. So rather like most jump start
packs.


You might be surprised. Okay, this clip is an ad but there are plenty
reviews of similar devices starting V8 engines with NO battery (other than
the jump starter obviously).

http://youtu.be/9Zyv5kztfU8

Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive? Was the engine cold or
hot? How long is the warranty?

Be nice to hear from someone who owns one.

Those were my thoughts exactly, which is why I posted. However I ordered
one yesterday so I will let you know. Instructions typically say run for
no more than 4 seconds with 30 second recovery time to cool down.

On 01/12/15 14:39, newshound wrote:
On 01/12/2015 13:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

My guess is it will only work where the car battery is only slightly
too low to start the car. Willing to bet it wouldn't work with no car
battery in place, or totally flat. So rather like most jump start
packs.


You might be surprised. Okay, this clip is an ad but there are plenty
reviews of similar devices starting V8 engines with NO battery (other
than
the jump starter obviously).

http://youtu.be/9Zyv5kztfU8

Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive? Was the engine cold or
hot? How long is the warranty?

Be nice to hear from someone who owns one.

Those were my thoughts exactly, which is why I posted. However I ordered
one yesterday so I will let you know. Instructions typically say run for
no more than 4 seconds with 30 second recovery time to cool down.

Having seen these sorts of packs in use in model aircraft, where
flattening them in less than a minute at 60 times capacity in Ah
currents are delivered, Id say its entirely possible that a 10AH
battery, which is not much bigger than a pack of fags, is fully capable
of ONE start.,

Packs tend to last about 100 flights under that sort of abuse.

You want 3s 10,000 maH 30C or better pack


e.g this pack for under 20 quid, should be able to deliver 180A for a
minute..


http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...po_Pa ck.html

--
the biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On Monday, November 30, 2015 at 12:45:24 PM UTC, newshound wrote:
Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one? Only for a
1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

This chap has a few videos on making car batteries with lithium
cells and supercapacitors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote:
newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

My guess is it will only work where the car
battery is only slightly too low to start the car.

Guess again. I've forgotten the detail now, but one
of the tests was in a situation MUCH worse than that.

Unfortunately the groups.google search is too lousy
to be able to find the original footage easily.

http://www.google.com/search?q=jump+...r+lion&tbm=vid

Willing to bet it wouldn't work with
no car battery in place, or totally flat.

You've just lost that bet.

So rather like most jump start packs.

Nothing like in fact.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
newshound wrote

Anyone got any experience with them, or can recommend one?
Only for a 1.3 petrol engine plus general use as a mobile supply.

I did see the video someone posted, in here from memory.

Amazing what it would start car engine wise given how small it was.

Not that much bigger than a fat pack of cigarettes from memory.

My guess is it will only work where the car battery is only slightly
too low to start the car. Willing to bet it wouldn't work with no car
battery in place, or totally flat. So rather like most jump start
packs.


You might be surprised. Okay, this clip is an ad but there are plenty
reviews of similar devices starting V8 engines with NO battery (other
than
the jump starter obviously).

http://youtu.be/9Zyv5kztfU8

Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive?

Expect it would be pretty decent given what
the most demanding power tools manage.

Was the engine cold or hot?

One of the ones I have seen was with the car
in a frigid situation, in Canada or somewhere.

Haven't noticed anyone using one on Ice Road Truckers
tho, but that is a very different situation where the
problem is the diesel congealing, not the battery.

How long is the warranty?

Pretty decent with the best of them.

Be nice to hear from someone who owns one.

Not really much of a sample tho. Those videos are pretty convincing.

Haven't bother to get one yet myself. Only needed to
replace the car battery the once in the now 10 year old
car and that was a faulty battery with a weird symptom
and not the usual dying of old age.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive?

Expect it would be pretty decent given what
the most demanding power tools manage.

You have a power tool which takes upwards of 300 amps at 12v? Do tell.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
newshound wrote:
Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive? Was the engine cold or
hot? How long is the warranty?

Be nice to hear from someone who owns one.

Those were my thoughts exactly, which is why I posted. However I ordered
one yesterday so I will let you know. Instructions typically say run for
no more than 4 seconds with 30 second recovery time to cool down.

Be interesting to know how it works in practice.

I use Li-ion in one of those electronic cigarette thingie.
Single cell - element load is 2.1 ohms. The cell capacity is given as 2200
mA.hr, and it easily lasts a day, but gets recharged each night. Using a
charger which takes about 4 hours and switches off when charged.

They last about 3 months before the performance starts to deteriorate.
Pretty useless after about 150 cycles.

So what I'm basically saying is this type of battery doesn't like heavy
loads. And the heavier the load, the shorter it lives.

--
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/12/2015 18:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive?

Expect it would be pretty decent given what
the most demanding power tools manage.

You have a power tool which takes upwards of 300 amps at 12v? Do tell.


My portable traffic warden disintegrator uses about that.

On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 at 6:42:28 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive?

Expect it would be pretty decent given what
the most demanding power tools manage.

You have a power tool which takes upwards of 300 amps at 12v? Do tell.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Few things do take a lot of current, 70A @ 12V

http://theinductor.co.uk/Mini-Ductor...or%C2%AE%2012V

Coils are kind of consumable , but mate loves his Snap On version

On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 at 6:48:44 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:
Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive? Was the engine cold or
hot? How long is the warranty?

Be nice to hear from someone who owns one.

Those were my thoughts exactly, which is why I posted. However I ordered
one yesterday so I will let you know. Instructions typically say run for
no more than 4 seconds with 30 second recovery time to cool down.

Be interesting to know how it works in practice.

I use Li-ion in one of those electronic cigarette thingie.
Single cell - element load is 2.1 ohms. The cell capacity is given as 2200
mA.hr, and it easily lasts a day, but gets recharged each night. Using a
charger which takes about 4 hours and switches off when charged.

IMR li-on Manganese electrodes, safer in e fags and allow in general higher peak current.

ICR li-on copper electrode , conventional with bigger risk of going ker-bang usually on board protection circuit.

R/C li-po packs have a C rating, higher the C rating faster they can discherge and dliver current, its quite lot of ebergy density if they give up...

Again mate in commercial garage has li-on starter pack , size of a paperback , just shy of 200 quid, on his second unit and third set of leads on warranty...


They last about 3 months before the performance starts to deteriorate.
Pretty useless after about 150 cycles.

So what I'm basically saying is this type of battery doesn't like heavy
loads. And the heavier the load, the shorter it lives.

--
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 at 6:42:28 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Wonder how many cycles of this it would survive?

Expect it would be pretty decent given what
the most demanding power tools manage.

You have a power tool which takes upwards of 300 amps at 12v? Do tell.

Few things do take a lot of current, 70A @ 12V

http://theinductor.co.uk/Mini-Ductor...or%C2%AE%2012V

Coils are kind of consumable , but mate loves his Snap On version

Well, yes. But that appears to need a car battery. ;-)

--
*If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Adam Aglionby wrote:
Again mate in commercial garage has li-on starter pack , size of a
paperback , just shy of 200 quid, on his second unit and third set of
leads on warranty...

What I'd guessed.

The majority will be bought as a 'just in case' and perhaps even as
presents. So they might well be able to replace the few that are actually
used more than a couple of times under warranty.

Like most things, if it sounds too good to be true, it likely is.

I'd say a pair of jump leads are better value as a 'just in case'.

--
*Dance like nobody's watching.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adam Aglionby wrote:
Again mate in commercial garage has li-on starter pack , size of a
paperback , just shy of 200 quid, on his second unit and third set of
leads on warranty...

What I'd guessed.

The majority will be bought as a 'just in case' and perhaps even as
presents. So they might well be able to replace the few that are actually
used more than a couple of times under warranty.

Like most things, if it sounds too good to be true, it likely is.

I'd say a pair of jump leads are better value as a 'just in case'.


But you're ignoring the fact that these are sold as power banks for
charging any number of whatnots. You might struggle to cover all their
functions with just a pair of jump leads.

Tim

In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adam Aglionby wrote:
Again mate in commercial garage has li-on starter pack , size of a
paperback , just shy of 200 quid, on his second unit and third set of
leads on warranty...

What I'd guessed.

The majority will be bought as a 'just in case' and perhaps even as
presents. So they might well be able to replace the few that are actually
used more than a couple of times under warranty.

Like most things, if it sounds too good to be true, it likely is.

I'd say a pair of jump leads are better value as a 'just in case'.


But you're ignoring the fact that these are sold as power banks for
charging any number of whatnots. You might struggle to cover all their
functions with just a pair of jump leads.

The OP only asked about their use for jump starting.

As regards other uses, I find a lead acid jump start pack with built in
tyre compressor very useful. And does double up for the very rare occasion
I need a portable power supply.

Can't really think of where a much smaller one would be a killer reason to
pay out that much more money for. Except for specialised stuff like model
aircraft and so on.

--
*Born free - taxed to death *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Adam Aglionby wrote

Again mate in commercial garage has li-on starter
pack , size of a paperback , just shy of 200 quid, on
his second unit and third set of leads on warranty...

What I'd guessed.

That's a rather different situation use wise to the normal owner tho.

And it sounds like a not very well designed one with the leads failures.

The majority will be bought as a 'just in case' and perhaps even
as presents. So they might well be able to replace the few that
are actually used more than a couple of times under warranty.

Like most things, if it sounds too good to be true, it likely is.

Jump starters in general are mostly useful in some situations tho.

I'd say a pair of jump leads are better value as a 'just in case'.

But nothing like as convenient to use with the
need for another vehicle to use them with.

No one said they are perfect or universally better than anything else.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Tim+ wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Adam Aglionby wrote

Again mate in commercial garage has li-on starter pack ,
size of a paperback , just shy of 200 quid, on his second
unit and third set of leads on warranty...

What I'd guessed.

The majority will be bought as a 'just in case' and perhaps even
as presents. So they might well be able to replace the few that
are actually used more than a couple of times under warranty.

Like most things, if it sounds too good to be true, it likely is.

I'd say a pair of jump leads are better value as a 'just in case'.

But you're ignoring the fact that these are sold as power banks
for charging any number of whatnots. You might struggle to
cover all their functions with just a pair of jump leads.

The OP only asked about their use for jump starting.

And the discussion had moved on to discussing them in general.

As regards other uses, I find a lead acid jump start
pack with built in tyre compressor very useful.

There is a lot to be said for doing that with Li-on instead now.

And does double up for the very rare
occasion I need a portable power supply.

So would a Li-on one which would do the car starting much better.

Can't really think of where a much smaller one would
be a killer reason to pay out that much more money for.

I can. When moving around without a car one of them
would be handy for keeping the smartphone charged
if you use it to listen to podcasts or read ebooks in the
sort of situation where mains power is hard to find.

Leaves you lead acid based one for dead portability wise.

Except for specialised stuff like model aircraft and so on.

Nothing specialised about smartphones anymore.

On Wed, 02 Dec 2015 13:33:06 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adam Aglionby wrote:
Again mate in commercial garage has li-on starter pack , size of a
paperback , just shy of 200 quid, on his second unit and third set
of leads on warranty...

What I'd guessed.

The majority will be bought as a 'just in case' and perhaps even as
presents. So they might well be able to replace the few that are
actually used more than a couple of times under warranty.

Like most things, if it sounds too good to be true, it likely is.

I'd say a pair of jump leads are better value as a 'just in case'.


But you're ignoring the fact that these are sold as power banks for
charging any number of whatnots. You might struggle to cover all their
functions with just a pair of jump leads.

The OP only asked about their use for jump starting.

As regards other uses, I find a lead acid jump start pack with built in
tyre compressor very useful. And does double up for the very rare
occasion I need a portable power supply.

Can't really think of where a much smaller one would be a killer reason
to pay out that much more money for. Except for specialised stuff like
model aircraft and so on.

If my experience with a 12AH SLA is anything to go by, that's probably
all you'd need (along with short 'jumper leads' - in my case, half a
metre's worth total).

I'd stopped off at our local chippy two or three winters back on our way
home from a 20 mile round trip outing. I knew the battery was on its last
legs but still made the mistake of switching the engine off on our
automatic 1.6 Astra whilst waiting for the missus to get served. It was
late afternoon and dark so I had the side lights on. When the missus came
back, ten minutes later, the battery was too flat to restart the car.

The emergency 1.4AH celled jump starter pack was, as expected, too flat
to do any good (NiCads eh? if you don't keep them on charge between use,
they're flat within a week or two from self discharge). Since we were
only 5 minutes walk from home, I decided to push the car into a parking
'bay' which had opportunely become free so we could head off home to
enjoy our fish 'n' chips tea and for me to put the 'emergency' starter
pack on charge.

After we'd had tea, I realised that unless I left the car parked where
it was overnight, there was no chance of the 'emergency pack' being
sufficiently charged to attempt even just a single starting attempt so I
cast around for an alternative 'battery' I could bodge into jump start
service and spotted the 2nd hand 12AH SLA I'd left parked on the office
window ledge ever since it had received its one and only charge from a
couple of 12v 1.2Wp solar panels the previous summer.

My initial test with a borrowed DMM in the fleamarket where I'd
purchased my "Five Quid Bargain"(tm) which had indicated a good state of
charge had proved to be optimistic - probably low battery in the borrowed
DMM - the battery voltage was only just over the 12 volt mark when I
measured it with my fluke DMM at home. However, despite this, it had
slowly charged up over the next few weeks of intermittent sunshine that
summer, reaching 14v before I decided 'enough was enough' - it doesn't do
an SLA any good to leave it floating higher than 13.8v for any length of
time.

Anyway, a quick test revealed it was still showing 12.77v and a 55W 12v
halogen capsule lamp lit up nice and bright confirming it might just be
up to the job so I made up my 'jump leads' and walked back to the car
with my 30 year old son in tow for moral support (actually, it may have
been that my son gave me a lift in his car, I can't really recall for
sure but he might even have had a set of jump leads to jump start from
his own car).

Regardless of whether I could prevail upon my son to jump start the
Astra, I attached my SLA to the car battery terminals and tried the
starter. Much to our amazement, the engine spun into life as if I'd
fitted a new car battery (I'd already tried an abortive start on the
car's own 'rested' battery - so knew the success was entirely down to my
"Five Quid Bargain"'s own efficacy).

I still have that battery and it still shows a resting voltage of 12.76v
some 4 or 5 months after its last annual 'summer solar charge' :-)

The point of this anecdote being that if a 2nd hand 12AH SLA flea market
purchase can jump start a 1.6 litre automatic, a new 12 or 15AH SLA might
be all you need to carry around in your boot in between 4 to 6 monthly
freshening charge cycles (along with a set of short jumper leads with
spade connectors for the battery terminals).

If you're going to trawl your local flea market or boot sales for a
decent SLA, take your own DMM (or at least a fresh PP3) to check any such
prospective purchase. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:
The point of this anecdote being that if a 2nd hand 12AH SLA flea market
purchase can jump start a 1.6 litre automatic, a new 12 or 15AH SLA might
be all you need to carry around in your boot in between 4 to 6 monthly
freshening charge cycles (along with a set of short jumper leads with
spade connectors for the battery terminals).

I've found with my jump start pack is it depends on whether there is
anything left in the car battery or not. It's an 18 amp.hr SLA - but not
in the first flush of youth.

And of course the state of the engine when you attempt the jump start. If
you've tried and failed because of a flat battery it might be partially
flooded - or whatever.

Which is why I'm suspicious of those ads showing the engine bursting into
life after it goes over the first compression. Life usually isn't that
simple. ;-)

--
*Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.