I recently hire a VW Golf. It had an automatic transmission and an
automatic hand brake. The instruction manual was in French which did
not help matters.

When the car was on the flat the automatic hand brake was not much of a
problem except that it occasionally came on when not needed, and had to
be released manually so that the car would roll forward when in drive
(or reverse) without touching the accelerator peddle.

What was much more hazardous was trying to reverse the car a few inches
up a steep hill as you might need to do to park.

Starting with the handbrake on the accelerator had to be pressed quite
hard before the brake released and the car went backwards, making me
think that if anything was close behind, I might have shot into it.

I did try putting the car in reverse, holding it on the foot brake and
then pressing the accelerator. This did not work as the engine computer
had obviously told the engine not to rev up.

Anyone had more success with these devices?

Another rather silly feature was the door mirror which I lowered to see
the rear of the car as I parked. When I then put the car in gear the
mirror promptly moved back to where it was before.

We had to read the instruction manual to find out how to open the boot!
You have to press the top of the VW sign on the back of the car if you
don't want to use the remote key.

Another problem was lowering the back seats. I had to pull some strap,
at the bottom of the seat back. This released the seat back. The seat
was spring loaded, so it came forward and hit me on the side of the head.


--
Michael Chare

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
I recently hire a VW Golf. It had an automatic transmission and an
automatic hand brake. The instruction manual was in French which did not
help matters.

When the car was on the flat the automatic hand brake was not much of a
problem except that it occasionally came on when not needed, and had to be
released manually so that the car would roll forward when in drive (or
reverse) without touching the accelerator peddle.

What was much more hazardous was trying to reverse the car a few inches up
a steep hill as you might need to do to park.

Starting with the handbrake on the accelerator had to be pressed quite
hard before the brake released and the car went backwards, making me think
that if anything was close behind, I might have shot into it.

I did try putting the car in reverse, holding it on the foot brake and
then pressing the accelerator. This did not work as the engine computer
had obviously told the engine not to rev up.

Anyone had more success with these devices?

These automatic parking brakes and automatic clutches sound a right pain in
the neck. What's wrong with a proper mechanically-operated handbrake that
you have complete control over, together with a mechanically operated clutch
that can be fed in gradually while the engine is idling - always assuming
that you have a diesel engine so the engine will pull even at idling speed
without you having to rev the engine. Even if I had a VW DSG gearbox, which
sounds like a fantastic piece of kit for matching matching engine and road
speed to give you perfectly smooth gearchanges, I'd still want an manual
clutch pedal for use solely when setting off from rest or when manoeuvring
and needed finer control.

Another rather silly feature was the door mirror which I lowered to see
the rear of the car as I parked. When I then put the car in gear the
mirror promptly moved back to where it was before.

We've got that on our Honda, together with a reversing camera, and both are
worth their weight in gold. The auto-adjusting door mirrors are fantastic:
it saves having to pause for ages, out in the middle of the road while I
adjust the mirror manually (and the motor moves so slowly) so I can see the
kerb that I need to line my nearside back wheel up with, between the drive
and lawn. It's something my Peugeot doesn't have so I was delighted that the
Honda does. It's a shame that there isn't manual override to keep mirror and
camera in reversing position for a few seconds while you go into first to
reposition slightly before reversing again.

We had to read the instruction manual to find out how to open the boot!
You have to press the top of the VW sign on the back of the car if you
don't want to use the remote key.

Ah yes. It took me a while to work that out when I drove a VW. I think you
have to use it every time you open the boot (even with central locking)
because central locking just allows the boot to open but you still need to
unlatch it with the badge in exactly the same way as you'd still need to
lift a conventional lever on a boot release. Or does the central locking
also release the boot lid so it pops up a few inches, or even raise the
tailgate to full height as the top-of-the-range Honda CR-V does?

Another problem was lowering the back seats. I had to pull some strap, at
the bottom of the seat back. This released the seat back. The seat was
spring loaded, so it came forward and hit me on the side of the head.

Same with our Honda. I still look for a lever on top of the seat back and
forget that it's a pull-tab below the seat base that starts the coordinated
sequence of raising seat base, lowering headrest and then tipping seat back
forwards. Not sure how similar this is to the VW mechanism.

The biggest mystery was when I had to drive my boss's car on business and
couldn't even work out how to get it into (or out of) reverse, which a hasty
mobile phone call from the car park resolved: it was a combination of
pushing the gear knob inwards (rather than lifting a collar or pulling the
knob outwards) and starting the engine: there was an interlock which
wouldn't allow the lever to move, even with the clutch pressed, when the
engine wasn't running.

In article ,
NY wrote:
These automatic parking brakes and automatic clutches sound a right pain
in the neck. What's wrong with a proper mechanically-operated handbrake
that you have complete control over, together with a mechanically
operated clutch that can be fed in gradually while the engine is idling
- always assuming that you have a diesel engine so the engine will pull
even at idling speed without you having to rev the engine. Even if I
had a VW DSG gearbox, which sounds like a fantastic piece of kit for
matching matching engine and road speed to give you perfectly smooth
gearchanges, I'd still want an manual clutch pedal for use solely when
setting off from rest or when manoeuvring and needed finer control.

With an auto - including the DSG types - use your left boot on the brake.
I've absolutely no idea what the purpose of an auto handbrake is on an
auto car anyway. Suppose it might make sense on a manual for those who
can't drive a manual, like so many Americans.

But a proper auto won't roll back on a hill anyway.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I guess an automatic handbrake costs less as there are no strong cables or
lever mountings. A bit like remote control on TV - we think of it as a
convenience - but imagine how much the makers save in not having to fit
conventional controls.

Michael Chare wrote:
I recently hire a VW Golf. It had an automatic transmission and an
automatic hand brake. The instruction manual was in French which did
not help matters.

When the car was on the flat the automatic hand brake was not much of a
problem except that it occasionally came on when not needed, and had to
be released manually so that the car would roll forward when in drive
(or reverse) without touching the accelerator peddle.

What was much more hazardous was trying to reverse the car a few inches
up a steep hill as you might need to do to park.

Starting with the handbrake on the accelerator had to be pressed quite
hard before the brake released and the car went backwards, making me
think that if anything was close behind, I might have shot into it.

I did try putting the car in reverse, holding it on the foot brake and
then pressing the accelerator. This did not work as the engine computer
had obviously told the engine not to rev up.

Anyone had more success with these devices?

I've got a four-year-old Range Rover which has an automatic "hand"
brake, which has operated flawlessly. I've never felt any inclination to
touch the control other than for familiarisation. It never comes on when
I don't want it to, and it always releases promptly when needed.

Somehow I expect manufacturers to buy in "intelligent" systems such as
automatic brakes from component suppliers such as Bosch, and so I expect
them to work the same in all brands of vehicles. Experience shows that
isn't so. Your VW's hand brake is clearly inferior to the Range Rover's
(or faulty). The Range Rover's automatic wipers are inferior to those on
the Audi I bought eleven years ago.

Another rather silly feature was the door mirror which I lowered to see
the rear of the car as I parked. When I then put the car in gear the
mirror promptly moved back to where it was before.

My car lowers the mirror when I put it in reverse. I didn't see the
point of that feature so I disabled it in the setup menu. I guess
different people use the mirrors differently.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On 21/09/15 14:31, NY wrote:
What was much more hazardous was trying to reverse the car a few inches
up a steep hill as you might need to do to park.

It's an auto right? so left foot on the brake, release the handbrake,
put a but of revs on it and let the brake off slowly...

I drive an auto and never ever use the handbrake..



--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

On Monday, September 21, 2015 at 1:57:27 PM UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
I recently hire a VW Golf. It had an automatic transmission and an
automatic hand brake. The instruction manual was in French which did
not help matters.

When the car was on the flat the automatic hand brake was not much of a
problem except that it occasionally came on when not needed, and had to
be released manually so that the car would roll forward when in drive
(or reverse) without touching the accelerator peddle.

What was much more hazardous was trying to reverse the car a few inches
up a steep hill as you might need to do to park.

Starting with the handbrake on the accelerator had to be pressed quite
hard before the brake released and the car went backwards, making me
think that if anything was close behind, I might have shot into it.

I did try putting the car in reverse, holding it on the foot brake and
then pressing the accelerator. This did not work as the engine computer
had obviously told the engine not to rev up.

Anyone had more success with these devices?

Another rather silly feature was the door mirror which I lowered to see
the rear of the car as I parked. When I then put the car in gear the
mirror promptly moved back to where it was before.

We had to read the instruction manual to find out how to open the boot!
You have to press the top of the VW sign on the back of the car if you
don't want to use the remote key.

Another problem was lowering the back seats. I had to pull some strap,
at the bottom of the seat back. This released the seat back. The seat
was spring loaded, so it came forward and hit me on the side of the head.


--
Michael Chare

My Astra has an electrically activated handbrake - just a control that can be pushed or pulled to apply or release the brake. But it releases automatically if you start driving. I did find once using this function whilst attempting to reverse slowly, that the brake released in a rather awkward manner. If reversing near another vehicle I think I would release it manually first.

The car also has a automatic foot-brake hold function - on hills it will hold for 2 seconds after you release the pedal. Good for pulling off on hills, and fills in a nice niche between riding the clutch and applying the handbrake.
However there is nothing to indicate if the incline is steep enough to activate the function, so on mild slopes you are not sure if it will hold or not. The hold function status should be indicated in the display.

Another thing with 6 gears, sometime you can confuse 6th with 4th, etc. Since the car knows electronically what gear you are in (it has gear change advice) why on earth can they not display the current gear for the user ?

Simon.

On 21/09/2015 15:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/09/15 14:31, NY wrote:
What was much more hazardous was trying to reverse the car a few inches
up a steep hill as you might need to do to park.

It's an auto right? so left foot on the brake, release the handbrake,
put a but of revs on it and let the brake off slowly...

I drive an auto and never ever use the handbrake..



Ditto.

"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 21/09/2015 15:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/09/15 14:31, NY wrote:
What was much more hazardous was trying to reverse the car a few inches
up a steep hill as you might need to do to park.

It's an auto right? so left foot on the brake, release the handbrake,
put a but of revs on it and let the brake off slowly...

I drive an auto and never ever use the handbrake..

Maybe you were taught differently to me: I was taught to use the handbrake
as in a manual when holding the car on a hill, to prevent having to keep
your foot on the footbrake and dazzling the person behind at night time. And
to shift into neutral at traffic lights as in a manual. Park then becomes an
auxiliary to the handbrake, a belt-and-braces equivalent of supplementing
the handbrake with leaving a manual car in gear. And never ever use the left
foot on the brake in any circumstances. My instructor could be a bit
dogmatic at times (eg his phrase "footbrake for stopping the car, handbrake
for keeping it stopped once stationary - no exceptions") but I'm inclined to
agree with him.

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
My car lowers the mirror when I put it in reverse. I didn't see the
point of that feature so I disabled it in the setup menu. I guess
different people use the mirrors differently.

Can be handy to see the kerb when parking. On my car you disable it by
moving the switch which selects which mirror you want to adjust.

--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"sm_jamieson" wrote in message
...
Another thing with 6 gears, sometime you can confuse 6th with 4th, etc.
Since the car knows electronically what gear you are in (it has gear
change advice) why on earth can they not display the current gear for the
user ?

I've always been puzzled by this. It's fairly common for the gear selector
of an automatic to display on the instrument panel the current PRNDL
position, so why don't they do the same to display the current gear on a
manual? I find with my new car I occasionally forget which gear I'm in
because there's less sense of engine racing or labouring than there was with
my old car - and it's not just confusion of 4th/6th or 3rd/5th but even
4th/5th where there's a difference in both up/down and left/right position -
you need to take your eyes of the road to glance at the gear lever and
remind yourself which gear you're in when the car's engine sounds are
unfamiliar.

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 17:07:08 +0100, NY wrote:

I've always been puzzled by this. It's fairly common for the gear
selector of an automatic to display on the instrument panel the current
PRNDL position, so why don't they do the same to display the current
gear on a manual? I find with my new car I occasionally forget which
gear I'm in because there's less sense of engine racing or labouring
than there was with my old car - and it's not just confusion of 4th/6th
or 3rd/5th but even 4th/5th where there's a difference in both up/down
and left/right position -
you need to take your eyes of the road to glance at the gear lever and
remind yourself which gear you're in when the car's engine sounds are
unfamiliar.

Does it MATTER which gear you're in? It's either the right one for the
road speed, or the wrong one. The sound, the feel and the rev counter
will tell you that.

On 21/09/15 16:09, Huge wrote:
On 2015-09-21, DerbyBorn wrote:



I guess an automatic handbrake costs less as there are no strong cables or
lever mountings. A bit like remote control on TV - we think of it as a
convenience - but imagine how much the makers save in not having to fit
conventional controls.

They all seem to be going that way. I hate the damn things.



SWMBO's MINI has one of those soft-start ignitions. Horrid if you stall.
Rather than standing on the brake and clutch and a quick flick of the
key to get started again, there is some amount of docking about required
which slows it down.

And these keyless ignitions are starting to get hacked by thieves (not
MINI specifically, but there was an article in the paper the other day).

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
My car lowers the mirror when I put it in reverse. I didn't see the
point of that feature so I disabled it in the setup menu. I guess
different people use the mirrors differently.

Can be handy to see the kerb when parking. On my car you disable it by
moving the switch which selects which mirror you want to adjust.

Not just handy but virtually essential when parking as close as possible to
a kerb without actually touching it or when parking centrally between two
white lines in a car park, when you can't see the kerb/lines except with a
mirror or a reversing camera.

I've never thought of auto-dropping mirrors as a pain, more as an essential
feature that should be standard on all cars - be nice if you could switch
between left, right and both, whereas certainly on my Honda it's only left
(nearside). I don't think it's switchable on/off, either, unless it's an
obscure menu option rather than a readily-accessible switch.

NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
My car lowers the mirror when I put it in reverse. I didn't see the
point of that feature so I disabled it in the setup menu. I guess
different people use the mirrors differently.

Can be handy to see the kerb when parking. On my car you disable it by
moving the switch which selects which mirror you want to adjust.

Not just handy but virtually essential when parking as close as possible to
a kerb without actually touching it or when parking centrally between two
white lines in a car park, when you can't see the kerb/lines except with a
mirror or a reversing camera.

It's difficult to be sure without experimenting but I suspect that I can
see well enough with the (quite large) mirror in its normal position.

And when I'm reversing into my garage (by far my most common reversing
manoeuvre), the best position for the mirror is the normal position.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

In article ,
NY wrote:
Maybe you were taught differently to me: I was taught to use the
handbrake as in a manual when holding the car on a hill, to prevent
having to keep your foot on the footbrake and dazzling the person
behind at night time. And to shift into neutral at traffic lights as in
a manual. Park then becomes an auxiliary to the handbrake, a
belt-and-braces equivalent of supplementing the handbrake with leaving
a manual car in gear. And never ever use the left foot on the brake in
any circumstances. My instructor could be a bit dogmatic at times (eg
his phrase "footbrake for stopping the car, handbrake for keeping it
stopped once stationary - no exceptions") but I'm inclined to agree
with him.

Absolutely stupid to only use one foot when you have two.

And there's no reason not to use park in an auto instead of the handbrake
when stopped in traffic, etc.

--
*WHAT IF THERE WERE NO HYPOTHETICAL QUESTIONS?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 21 September 2015 17:07:07 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"sm_jamieson" wrote in message
...
Another thing with 6 gears, sometime you can confuse 6th with 4th, etc.
Since the car knows electronically what gear you are in (it has gear
change advice) why on earth can they not display the current gear for the
user ?

I've always been puzzled by this. It's fairly common for the gear selector
of an automatic to display on the instrument panel the current PRNDL
position, so why don't they do the same to display the current gear on a
manual? I find with my new car I occasionally forget which gear I'm in
because there's less sense of engine racing or labouring than there was with
my old car - and it's not just confusion of 4th/6th or 3rd/5th but even
4th/5th where there's a difference in both up/down and left/right position -
you need to take your eyes of the road to glance at the gear lever and
remind yourself which gear you're in when the car's engine sounds are
unfamiliar.

My VW Passat displays current gear and then indicates when it thinks you should
be changing up. Ford C Max is similar, but doesn't have continuous display of current gear

On 21/09/15 17:01, NY wrote:
"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 21/09/2015 15:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/09/15 14:31, NY wrote:
What was much more hazardous was trying to reverse the car a few inches
up a steep hill as you might need to do to park.

It's an auto right? so left foot on the brake, release the handbrake,
put a but of revs on it and let the brake off slowly...

I drive an auto and never ever use the handbrake..

Maybe you were taught differently to me:

When I were taught there were no autos except in the USA :-)


I was taught to use the
handbrake as in a manual when holding the car on a hill, to prevent
having to keep your foot on the footbrake and dazzling the person behind
at night time. And to shift into neutral at traffic lights as in a
manual. Park then becomes an auxiliary to the handbrake, a
belt-and-braces equivalent of supplementing the handbrake with leaving a
manual car in gear. And never ever use the left foot on the brake in any
circumstances. My instructor could be a bit dogmatic at times (eg his
phrase "footbrake for stopping the car, handbrake for keeping it stopped
once stationary - no exceptions") but I'm inclined to agree with him.

Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools


--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

En el artículo , Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREn
escribió:

I recently hire a VW Golf.

Buggered if I can see what this has to do with uk.d-i-y. What's wrong
with uk.rec.driving?

I hired a VW Touran earlier in the year with the automatic parking
brake, the first time I'd encountered one. Yes, it took a moment to get
used to, but once I'd worked it out it was perfectly logical.

The mistake is to treat it as a replacement for a manual handbrake.
Once you get over that way of thinking, it works quite naturally.

We had to read the instruction manual to find out how to open the boot!
You have to press the top of the VW sign on the back of the car

Poor dear. You had to RTFM! Can you even read?

The seat
was spring loaded, so it came forward and hit me on the side of the head.

Sounds like you needed the wake-up call.

Followups set.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
But a proper auto won't roll back on a hill anyway.
Sadly many autos do. Honda Jazz and Big Toyota people carriers in my recent experience. I find torque converter autos best for not rolling on hills.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Maybe you were taught differently to me: I was taught to use the
handbrake as in a manual when holding the car on a hill, to prevent
having to keep your foot on the footbrake and dazzling the person
behind at night time. And to shift into neutral at traffic lights as in
a manual. Park then becomes an auxiliary to the handbrake, a
belt-and-braces equivalent of supplementing the handbrake with leaving
a manual car in gear. And never ever use the left foot on the brake in
any circumstances. My instructor could be a bit dogmatic at times (eg
his phrase "footbrake for stopping the car, handbrake for keeping it
stopped once stationary - no exceptions") but I'm inclined to agree
with him.

Absolutely stupid to only use one foot when you have two.

And there's no reason not to use park in an auto instead of the handbrake
when stopped in traffic, etc.


Quite a few auto users only have one foot available as they are
disabled.

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
My car lowers the mirror when I put it in reverse. I didn't see the
point of that feature so I disabled it in the setup menu. I guess
different people use the mirrors differently.

Can be handy to see the kerb when parking. On my car you disable it by
moving the switch which selects which mirror you want to adjust.

Not just handy but virtually essential when parking as close as possible
to
a kerb without actually touching it or when parking centrally between two
white lines in a car park, when you can't see the kerb/lines except with
a
mirror or a reversing camera.

It's difficult to be sure without experimenting but I suspect that I can
see well enough with the (quite large) mirror in its normal position.

And when I'm reversing into my garage (by far my most common reversing
manoeuvre), the best position for the mirror is the normal position.

If the thing that you are lining up against is high enough to be visible
with the mirror in its normal position, then that's fine. But I've found
with every car that I've driven that the mirrors in their normal position to
show traffic that is overtaking you or that you are overtaking are nowhere
*near* large enough to show the back wheel of the car to line it up with a
kerb or to line up the car between the two white lines of a parking bay
(assuming that there aren't cars in both the adjacent bays!) - they're not
even *remotely* close (*). You can see the lines when you are a long way
away but as you get closer and need to fine-tune your position or check that
you haven't strayed off course, the lines/kerb disappear below the field of
view of the mirror, hence the need to drop the mirror(s).

Things like the sides of your garage, or bollards or waist-high brick walls,
that are high enough to be visible in a normally-adjusted mirror are often
visible with the naked eye by looking over your shoulder so you don't even
have to use the mirror to see them. It's things that are at ground level
that you can't see - it depends whether or not those are the only reference
points in the places where you park: you're lucky that they are not.


(*) One intriguing digression. With my passenger door mirror correctly
positioned for me to see traffic that I'm overtaking, my wife in the
passenger seat says she can also see that traffic. But if we swap places so
I'm the passenger, and without moving mirror or seat, all I can see out of
that mirror is my car's bodywork. I can imagine that the difference in our
heights (5' 10" versus 5' 6") will affect the vertical position but not the
horizontal position to show something adjacent to my car versus my car's
body. Weird.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2015-09-21, Mike Barnes wrote:
NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
My car lowers the mirror when I put it in reverse. I didn't see the
point of that feature so I disabled it in the setup menu. I guess
different people use the mirrors differently.

Can be handy to see the kerb when parking. On my car you disable it by
moving the switch which selects which mirror you want to adjust.

Not just handy but virtually essential when parking as close as possible
to
a kerb without actually touching it or when parking centrally between
two
white lines in a car park, when you can't see the kerb/lines except with
a
mirror or a reversing camera.

It's difficult to be sure without experimenting but I suspect that I can
see well enough with the (quite large) mirror in its normal position.

And when I'm reversing into my garage (by far my most common reversing
manoeuvre), the best position for the mirror is the normal position.

One of the first things I do with a new car is switch off those damn
auto-lowering mirrors. They're too slow and half the time they stop
in the wrong place. I'm perfectly happy to waggle my head about so I
can see.

The mirrors on my Peugeot are painfully slow when adjusted manually, so I
usually press the switch in the last few yards while I'm driving along the
road to the point where I start to reverse into the drive, but the ones on
the Honda move very quickly so I can wait until they move down as I engage
reverse. On both cars, the fully-down position is just right to show the
rear wheel and a few inches to the left of it.

Either way, it is essential for me that the mirrors *do* move, because
there's no way that I can move sufficiently far, while remaining in
controllable reach of the pedals and without passing sideways through the
driver's door and vertically through the roof (!), to be able to see the
rear wheels of my car with the passenger's door mirror in its normal
position.

I'm baffled that people can ever manage to reverse without lowering the
mirrors when the only reference points are lines/kerbs at ground level
rather than waist high hedges or walls.

Obviously a reversing camera makes life a lot easier, but I haven't had the
Honda long enough to learn to trust that entirely, without corroborating
that view with the one from the passenger's door mirror, to make sure I park
close enough to the kerb to leave room for the Peugeot to get out and
without going over the kerb onto the lawn: it's difficult to line up with
something that you can no longer see!

The other problem I have with my Peugeot is that its one reversing light is
so dim that the tarmac of the drive, the concrete kerb stone and the green
grass all look virtually the same brightness at night when "lit" by the
reversing light, even if the mirror *is* showing the right view. I'd paint
the concrete kerbstone with white paint but SWMBO says "no way".

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
But a proper auto won't roll back on a hill anyway.
Sadly many autos do. Honda Jazz and Big Toyota people carriers in my
recent experience. I find torque converter autos best for not rolling on
hills.

I find a handbrake an even better way of not rolling: I've thirty years of
using that method in a manual car so it's instinctively the way I'd do it in
an auto, even if it did have transmission that made it less likely to
happen.

Going into park makes a very nasty lurch if you happen to be rolling very
slightly and haven't come to a complete stop.

By the way (digressing slightly) what would you say needed adjusting on a
brand new (manual) car if the car rolls an inch or so and then comes to an
abrupt stop when you come to rest with the footbrake, fully apply the
handbrake and then release the footbrake? Eg when stopping at traffic lights
on an up/down gradient, with the car either in gear and the clutch down or
else in neutral. Until I can get round to taking the car into the garage to
get it looked at, I've learned to release the footbrake slowly so the roll
and sudden stop are more gradual.

On 21/09/15 21:00, NY wrote:
By the way (digressing slightly) what would you say needed adjusting on
a brand new (manual) car if the car rolls an inch or so and then comes
to an abrupt stop when you come to rest with the footbrake, fully apply
the handbrake and then release the footbrake? Eg when stopping at
traffic lights on an up/down gradient, with the car either in gear and
the clutch down or else in neutral. Until I can get round to taking the
car into the garage to get it looked at, I've learned to release the
footbrake slowly so the roll and sudden stop are more gradual.

Play in the suspension. Probably worn rubber bushes.


--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 21/09/15 21:00, NY wrote:
By the way (digressing slightly) what would you say needed adjusting on
a brand new (manual) car if the car rolls an inch or so and then comes
to an abrupt stop when you come to rest with the footbrake, fully apply
the handbrake and then release the footbrake? Eg when stopping at
traffic lights on an up/down gradient, with the car either in gear and
the clutch down or else in neutral. Until I can get round to taking the
car into the garage to get it looked at, I've learned to release the
footbrake slowly so the roll and sudden stop are more gradual.

Play in the suspension. Probably worn rubber bushes.

Ah, hadn't thought of that. Probably more like wrongly assembled than worn
since the car has only done 5000 miles and has been like that from day 1.

On 21/09/2015 21:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/09/15 21:00, NY wrote:
By the way (digressing slightly) what would you say needed adjusting on
a brand new (manual) car if the car rolls an inch or so and then comes
to an abrupt stop when you come to rest with the footbrake, fully apply
the handbrake and then release the footbrake? Eg when stopping at
traffic lights on an up/down gradient, with the car either in gear and
the clutch down or else in neutral. Until I can get round to taking the
car into the garage to get it looked at, I've learned to release the
footbrake slowly so the roll and sudden stop are more gradual.

Play in the suspension. Probably worn rubber bushes.


In a brand new car?

My experience of auto handbrakes was doing a hill start in one. It held
the handbrake on just long enough so that I stalled the engine. THEN it
let it off. I hit the footbrake VERY quickly.

Andy

On 21/09/2015 20:00, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREn
escribió:

I recently hire a VW Golf.

Buggered if I can see what this has to do with uk.d-i-y. What's wrong
with uk.rec.driving?

I hired a VW Touran earlier in the year with the automatic parking
brake, the first time I'd encountered one. Yes, it took a moment to get
used to, but once I'd worked it out it was perfectly logical.

The mistake is to treat it as a replacement for a manual handbrake.
Once you get over that way of thinking, it works quite naturally.


The tricky bit was moving the car a short distance from rest up a steep
hill.

We had to read the instruction manual to find out how to open the boot!
You have to press the top of the VW sign on the back of the car

Poor dear. You had to RTFM! Can you even read?


I get on better when the text is in English.

--
Michael Chare

On 21/09/2015 13:57, Michael Chare wrote:
I recently hire a VW Golf. It had an automatic transmission and an
automatic hand brake. The instruction manual was in French which did
not help matters.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/manuals

In the past few months I have had two hire cars with automatic "hand"
brakes. The Passat was a dream - it just felt right and did what I
expected. The Vauxhall Insignia was foul. Felt as if the brake was not
releasing fully until I was doing about 30 mph. And didn't hold that
well on steeper hills.

--
Rod

On 21/09/2015 22:04, polygonum wrote:
On 21/09/2015 13:57, Michael Chare wrote:
I recently hire a VW Golf. It had an automatic transmission and an
automatic hand brake. The instruction manual was in French which did
not help matters.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/manuals


Unfortunately you can't download VW car manuals as pdf files, as I found
out when I could not get the manual for a new car I was thinking of
buying. EU should do something about that as hiring a car in a foreign
county where you are not very familiar with the language can not be that
uncommon an experience.


--
Michael Chare

On 21/09/2015 22:51, Michael Chare wrote:
On 21/09/2015 22:04, polygonum wrote:
On 21/09/2015 13:57, Michael Chare wrote:
I recently hire a VW Golf. It had an automatic transmission and an
automatic hand brake. The instruction manual was in French which did
not help matters.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/manuals


Unfortunately you can't download VW car manuals as pdf files, as I found
out when I could not get the manual for a new car I was thinking of
buying. EU should do something about that as hiring a car in a foreign
county where you are not very familiar with the language can not be that
uncommon an experience.


Wholeheartedly agree that these things should be readily available.

Even if my French were pretty good, I'd prefer to read it in my native
language. But I suggest that the hire companies have a duty as well.

--
Rod

How do they work?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 21/09/15 21:00, NY wrote:
By the way (digressing slightly) what would you say needed adjusting on
a brand new (manual) car if the car rolls an inch or so and then comes
to an abrupt stop when you come to rest with the footbrake, fully apply
the handbrake and then release the footbrake? Eg when stopping at
traffic lights on an up/down gradient, with the car either in gear and
the clutch down or else in neutral. Until I can get round to taking the
car into the garage to get it looked at, I've learned to release the
footbrake slowly so the roll and sudden stop are more gradual.

Play in the suspension. Probably worn rubber bushes.

Very unlikely with a brand new manual car.

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 20:49:27 +0100, NY wrote:

I'm baffled that people can ever manage to reverse without lowering the
mirrors when the only reference points are lines/kerbs at ground level
rather than waist high hedges or walls.

Can't explain how I did it but I could put the Disco II into the
middle of a parking space parallel to the lines in pretty much one
smooth reversing movement. 10+ old car, no fancy tilting mirrors.
B-) Had to see the lines to start with but once out of view just
knew where they were.

Can't say I can do the same in the Freelander 2 yet, I always seem to
end up on the skew. It's almost as if the steering is non-linear,
near straight ahead requires a larger movement of the steeering wheel
for given amount of road wheel movement that it does approaching full
lock.

Auto parking brake seems to "just work", provided you drive how I
think people are taught to drive these days. That is the parking
brake only applied when actually parked or actually required for a
hill start.

Stopped on the "flat" in traffic or at lights/junction you put it
into neutral and release the clutch, holding the car on the foot
brake. Not that you should hold the car on the clutch but for a short
pause when already in 1st/2nd just keep the clutch pressed. Why
bother selecting neutral and releasing the clutch? 'Cause if you
don't and you are on a hill the car won't engage the GRC and you will
roll when you release the footbrake. B-)

I have found it a bit sluggish to release, say when you are trying
grab a gap when joining a busyish main road with the traffic doing
60+. But you just pre-empt the start by 1/2 a second.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
And there's no reason not to use park in an auto instead of the
handbrake when stopped in traffic, etc.

But on a steep hill or when a winch is attached to the towbar (on-topic
for d-i-y?) it reduces the strain on whatever in the gearbox is holding
the car.

My holey Disco's handbook says to use the handbrake when using a winch.
--
Bill

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 21:00:32 +0100, NY wrote:

By the way (digressing slightly) what would you say needed adjusting on
a brand new (manual) car if the car rolls an inch or so and then comes
to an abrupt stop when you come to rest with the footbrake, fully apply
the handbrake and then release the footbrake?

Nothing, perfectly normal behaviour for vehicles with a transmission
brake, like Defenders and Discovery's. Just the "slop" in drive chain
and suspension.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 14:19:01 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

I guess an automatic handbrake costs less as there are no strong cables
or lever mountings.

Hum, simple, lasts for ever, cable and lever replaced by motor, gear
box hi-speed worm drive (I think) and still cables to the brakes.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 16:14:46 +0000 (UTC), Adrian wrote:

I find with my new car I occasionally forget which gear I'm in
because
there's less sense of engine racing or labouring than there was
with my
old car -

Used to occasionally look for 6th in the Disco, now look for 7th...

... and it's not just confusion of 4th/6th or 3rd/5th but even
4th/5th
where there's a difference in both up/down and left/right position
-

The bias on the Freelander box is 3/4 and R is next to 6 with no
collar/push down interlock to prevent you going past 5/6. So 4 to 5
has a habit of ending up nowhere and 5 to 6 will try R!

Does it MATTER which gear you're in? It's either the right one for the
road speed, or the wrong one. The sound, the feel and the rev counter
will tell you that.

That depends, much quieter car that revs considerably slower. Disco
2300 rpm @ 63mph, Freelander 1750 rpm @ 63 mph (all ish but close
enough). Normall sort of driving would have the Disco up to nearly
3000 rpm before changing up, Freelander doesn't have to go much above
2000 rpm.

When I first got the FL the little green "change up" light was on an
awful lot. And the damn thing will do nearly 30 mph in 6th with the
engine at idle, it'll even fight the brakes...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , NY
writes

I'm baffled that people can ever manage to reverse without lowering the
mirrors when the only reference points are lines/kerbs at ground level
rather than waist high hedges or walls.

What did we do before lowering door mirrors were available? There are
probably quite a lot of people reading here who started driving long
before door mirrors were fitted to cars. It was not that long ago when
the only mirror was internal. No door mirrors, and no wing mirrors.

--
Graeme

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 21:00:32 +0100, NY wrote:

By the way (digressing slightly) what would you say needed adjusting on
a brand new (manual) car if the car rolls an inch or so and then comes
to an abrupt stop when you come to rest with the footbrake, fully apply
the handbrake and then release the footbrake?

Nothing, perfectly normal behaviour for vehicles with a transmission
brake, like Defenders and Discovery's. Just the "slop" in drive chain
and suspension.

But this is a manual car so it doesn't have a transmission brake. I can't
see how suspension is implicated if the car is fully at rest (ie car body
has stopped moving relative to the wheels) and the wheels then rotate
slightly when the footbrake is released after the handbrake has been
applied. I'd have thought that this indicated some sideways play on the
brake pads that are operated by the handbrake - I presume there must be
separate pads because if there was only one set of pads they would already
be applied by the footbrake and should remain applied just as hard when the
handbrake pulls them on and then when the footbrake pressure on them is
released. Car is a Honda CR-V if that helps identify problem further.