I recently came across (while looking for something else) a product called UMAX, which is an additive for the water in a central heating system that is said to

"change the way water boils, making the water in your radiators hotter without turning them up. As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles forms which eventually join together and act as insulator between the gas firing and the water within the radiator circuit. Umax changes the way water boils so that only micro bubbles form which do not coalesce greatly increasing the heating efficiency and the transfer of heat from the boiler into the radiator circuit. (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mKxfzIuQLE)"

It sounded a bit far fetched, but I found some on eBay for just £3.99 post free, which was hardly going to break the bank, and lo and behold, it seems to work, insofar as the radiators really are a lot hotter - almost scaldingly hot.

I don't really understand why this means the boiler thermostat doesn't cut out earlier - but I pass this on, being interested to see if anyone else has had experience of this product.

Keith

On 27/11/2014 07:21, Keefiedee wrote:
I recently came across (while looking for something else) a product called UMAX,

Hmmmmmm smells like tinned meat and snake oil to me...

I'd like to see the result of this additive in a glass pressure cooker.
Adding it to an open boiling pan isn't the same as adding it to a
closed system pressurised to 30 to 40 psi.

Surely the boiler sets the temperature of the circulating water so
adding such product to a system isn't going to make the radiators hotter ?

Would it not just be a simple detergent that reduces surface tension of
the water to prevent "larger" bubbles forming?

The very best I can see it doing is making the water heat up slightly
quicker in the same way a larger heat exchanger would so it doesn't save
ANY energy because MORE energy is passed to the water in the same amount
of time so the net energy saving effect is zero... in fact... it would
as far as I can see use MORE energy in the same amount of time of
heating operation which could be matched by simply setting your
radiators to come on a bit earlier.

And while I'm at it.... the manufactures claim between 10 to 12% energy
saving... When has a manufacturer EVER been truthful about claimed
energy saving figures... Just saying. Perhaps a 10 to 12% increase in
bringing water up to temperature but that's it.

Pete@

On 27/11/2014 07:21, Keefiedee wrote:
I recently came across (while looking for something else) a product
called UMAX, which is an additive for the water in a central heating
system that is said to

"change the way water boils, making the water in your radiators
hotter without turning them up. As water in a central heating system
passes over the heat exchanger in the boiler, a small percentage of
that water will boil on the hot metal surfaces. During this boiling a
layer of irregular bubbles forms which eventually join together and
act as insulator between the gas firing and the water within the
radiator circuit. Umax changes the way water boils so that only micro
bubbles form which do not coalesce greatly increasing the heating
efficiency and the transfer of heat from the boiler into the radiator
circuit. (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mKxfzIuQLE)"

It sounded a bit far fetched, but I found some on eBay for just £3.99
post free, which was hardly going to break the bank, and lo and
behold, it seems to work, insofar as the radiators really are a lot
hotter - almost scaldingly hot.

I don't really understand why this means the boiler thermostat
doesn't cut out earlier - but I pass this on, being interested to see
if anyone else has had experience of this product.

A bit more background he

http://www.bgateway.com/press-centre...r-new-venture/



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Keefiedee wrote:
As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger in
the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot metal
surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles forms which
eventually join together and act as insulator between the gas firing
and the water within the radiator circuit.

So just where does this wasted heat disappear to?

--
*Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/11/2014 09:20, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:
On 27/11/2014 07:21, Keefiedee wrote:
I recently came across (while looking for something else) a product called UMAX,

Hmmmmmm smells like tinned meat and snake oil to me...

I'd like to see the result of this additive in a glass pressure cooker.
Adding it to an open boiling pan isn't the same as adding it to a
closed system pressurised to 30 to 40 psi.

Some independent test results would be good....

Surely the boiler sets the temperature of the circulating water so
adding such product to a system isn't going to make the radiators hotter ?

Agreed - although it will vary a bit with the sophistication of the
boilers control system. Some just have a limit stat, but may not
normally reach that depending on the actual load applied.

Would it not just be a simple detergent that reduces surface tension of
the water to prevent "larger" bubbles forming?

The very best I can see it doing is making the water heat up slightly
quicker in the same way a larger heat exchanger would so it doesn't save
ANY energy because MORE energy is passed to the water in the same amount
of time so the net energy saving effect is zero... in fact... it would
as far as I can see use MORE energy in the same amount of time of
heating operation which could be matched by simply setting your
radiators to come on a bit earlier.

Well if you can improve transfer efficiency then the overall temperature
of the HE would fall slightly, raising the rate of energy transfer from
the gas flame slightly.

So with a modern boiler that modulates to meet a predefined flow
temperature, then you *might* get a slight reduction in burn time or gas
rate required...

Having said that, on systems with seasonally adjusted efficiencies
already over 90% it makes you wonder how much marginal extra you can
squeeze out even if it does what it says on the tin.

And while I'm at it.... the manufactures claim between 10 to 12% energy
saving... When has a manufacturer EVER been truthful about claimed
energy saving figures... Just saying. Perhaps a 10 to 12% increase in
bringing water up to temperature but that's it.

Well if you could achieve a faster rise time, that means the rads would
have a higher average temperature over time (even if their actual
maximum temperature is unchanged)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 27/11/14 11:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Keefiedee wrote:
As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger in
the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot metal
surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles forms which
eventually join together and act as insulator between the gas firing
and the water within the radiator circuit.

So just where does this wasted heat disappear to?

up the chimbly essentially.

If they are to be believed, this would improve heat transfer from
boiler exhaust to hot water.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keefiedee wrote:
As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger in
the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot metal
surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles forms which
eventually join together and act as insulator between the gas firing
and the water within the radiator circuit.

So just where does this wasted heat disappear to?

It doesn’t, it just doesn’t get into the circulating water
as well as it should do.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keefiedee wrote:
As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger
in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot
metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles
forms which eventually join together and act as insulator between
the gas firing and the water within the radiator circuit.

So just where does this wasted heat disappear to?

It doesn’t, it just doesn’t get into the circulating water
as well as it should do.

If it doesn't get into the water where does it go, then?

--
*I got a job at a bakery because I kneaded dough.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Keefiedee wrote

As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger
in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot
metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles
forms which eventually join together and act as insulator between
the gas firing and the water within the radiator circuit.

So just where does this wasted heat disappear to?

It doesn't, it just doesn't get into the circulating water
as well as it should do.

If it doesn't get into the water

It does, just not as well when that additive isnt used.

where does it go, then?

Into the water, just not as well so the water doesn't get as hot.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Keefiedee wrote

As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger
in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot
metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles
forms which eventually join together and act as insulator between
the gas firing and the water within the radiator circuit.

So just where does this wasted heat disappear to?

It doesn't, it just doesn't get into the circulating water
as well as it should do.

If it doesn't get into the water

It does, just not as well when that additive isnt used.
where does it go, then?

Into the water, just not as well so the water doesn't get as hot.


So this product saves how much energy?

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Keefiedee wrote

As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger
in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot
metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles
forms which eventually join together and act as insulator between
the gas firing and the water within the radiator circuit.

So just where does this wasted heat disappear to?

It doesn't, it just doesn't get into the circulating water
as well as it should do.

If it doesn't get into the water

It does, just not as well when that additive isnt used.
where does it go, then?

Into the water, just not as well so the water doesn't get as hot.


So this product saves how much energy?

No idea, like I think it was John Rumm
said, some decent tests need to be done.

On 27/11/2014 19:22, Rod Speed wrote:

It does, just not as well when that additive isnt used.
where does it go, then?

Into the water, just not as well so the water doesn't get as hot.

Perhaps the extra energy is converted to useless sound/vibrational
energy by the big bubbles rather than being used to heat the water...

:¬)

Pete@
--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk
UK's leading Commercial Gym Equipment Supplier since the last millenium

To be honest, what impressed me most was the very obviously increased temperature of the water in the radiators. I am well aware that it would be very difficlt to assess actual energy savings. My view was that you can't go far wrong for £3.99 unless there are any snags, which so far there don't seem to be, and no-one has suggested any. However, I understand Carshalton College did a full assessment and came up with the 10 to 12% figure.

Keith

On Friday, November 28, 2014 8:43:39 AM UTC, Keefiedee wrote:
To be honest, what impressed me most was the very obviously increased temperature of the water in the radiators. I am well aware that it would be very difficlt to assess actual energy savings. My view was that you can't go far wrong for £3.99 unless there are any snags, which so far there don't seem to be, and no-one has suggested any. However, I understand Carshalton College did a full assessment and came up with the 10 to 12% figure.

Keith

A change in rad temp would not result even if it did what it claims. As for going far wrong, I reckon you've gone 3.99 wrong.


NT

On 28/11/2014 10:45, wrote:
On Friday, November 28, 2014 8:43:39 AM UTC, Keefiedee wrote:
To be honest, what impressed me most was the very obviously increased temperature of the water in the radiators. I am well aware that it would be very difficlt to assess actual energy savings. My view was that you can't go far wrong for £3.99 unless there are any snags, which so far there don't seem to be, and no-one has suggested any. However, I understand Carshalton College did a full assessment and came up with the 10 to 12% figure.

Keith

A change in rad temp would not result even if it did what it claims. As for going far wrong, I reckon you've gone 3.99 wrong.


NT

Maybe more that that if it voids the boiler warranty.

In article ,
Keefiedee wrote:
To be honest, what impressed me most was the very obviously increased
temperature of the water in the radiators.

Like turning up the boiler temperature?


I am well aware that it would be very difficlt to assess actual energy
savings.

Very simple. You check gas usage.

My view was that you can't go far wrong for £3.99 unless there are any
snags, which so far there don't seem to be, and no-one has suggested
any. However, I understand Carshalton College did a full assessment
and came up with the 10 to 12% figure.

Perhaps you could provide a link?

BTW, are you simply a satisfied customer or involved with this product in
some way?

--
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 07:21:23 UTC, Keefiedee wrote:
I recently came across (while looking for something else) a product called UMAX, which is an additive for the water in a central heating system that is said to

"change the way water boils, making the water in your radiators hotter without turning them up. As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles forms which eventually join together and act as insulator between the gas firing and the water within the radiator circuit. Umax changes the way water boils so that only micro bubbles form which do not coalesce greatly increasing the heating efficiency and the transfer of heat from the boiler into the radiator circuit. (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mKxfzIuQLE)"

It sounded a bit far fetched, but I found some on eBay for just £3.99 post free, which was hardly going to break the bank, and lo and behold, it seems to work, insofar as the radiators really are a lot hotter - almost scaldingly hot.

I don't really understand why this means the boiler thermostat doesn't cut out earlier - but I pass this on, being interested to see if anyone else has had experience of this product.

Keith

No I have not turned up the boiler temperature.

The boiler is far too old to have a warranty.

We're on oil, not gas.

http://www.enviromax.eu/glasgow-city...ax-case-study/

I am certainly not involved with the manufacturers in any way. I just thought the concept vaguely made sense (though I agree I am getting a bit senile these days) and wondered if anyone else had used it or thought that it in any way made sense or was worth trying. But, probably quite reasonably, you're all confirmed cynics!!!!

On 28/11/2014 15:32, Keefiedee wrote:


I am certainly not involved with the manufacturers in any way.



I'm actually quite pleased it initially appeared you may have some
connection to the company Keith as I did a quick dig around your gmail
address and followed the trail to your youtube page and most
specifically the series of videos of the natural healing woman.

"Three thumps"

Great stuff though I still have plenty more of them to watch.

Cheers
Pete@

replying to Keefiedee , Garry Selby wrote:
ABC GAS CARE Garry Selby
I Enjoyed the discussion on the product and can confirm its not another
product that bulls you up for your hard earned cash it actually works and
all the other Central Heating Additive Manufacturers are scrambling to get
there own product on the market it actually costs close to £20K to have
it independently tested and about 6 months Fernox one of the best known
brands have issued a product as well F6
What it does in simple terms is increase the Conductivity of the water and
as a simple effect of heat passing into the water easier this increases
heat of the water and as 2 effects you ether get too hot or if sensible
drop the temp of the boiler , you use less gas ,
Its not Bull it works It was tested extensively by a further education
facility in Scotland on commercial and domestic ,I read the report and
after that I am adding to nearly every job , But if you want to save
energy and your boiler life fit a Magnaclean I am not going to spend pages
on why you need one but it keeps your boiler free of sludge iron oxide
this keeps your energy efficiancy high it then also as another effect your
boiler life can go from 10 year to 20 year IF YOU ADD INHIBITOR as well
and makes putting inhibitor in your system and your UMax , my maintenance
bills went down on 40 rental houses from thousands a year to small
hundreds over a 5 year period with every house having Magnaclean regular
inhibitor and the Umax the original installation cost was high but now its
pay back in low running costs .
So as some one who is plumbing day in day out you want to save money 1 put
Magnaclean in ,2 Put inhibitor in yearly ,3 Put Umax in .
or the Fernox F6 is inhibitor and Umax in one .
I do not work for any of the company's so this is independent and
information through real experience in the field .

kdunbar232 wrote:

I recently came across (while looking for something else) a product called

UMAX, which is an additive for the water in a central heating system that
i
s said to
"change the way water boils, making the water in your radiators hotter
with
out turning them up. As water in a central heating system passes over the
h
eat exchanger in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on

the hot metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles
fo
rms which eventually join together and act as insulator between the gas
fir
ing and the water within the radiator circuit. Umax changes the way water
b
oils so that only micro bubbles form which do not coalesce greatly
increasi
ng the heating efficiency and the transfer of heat from the boiler into
the
radiator circuit. (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mKxfzIuQLE)"
It sounded a bit far fetched, but I found some on eBay for just £3.99 pos
t free, which was hardly going to break the bank, and lo and behold, it
see
ms to work, insofar as the radiators really are a lot hotter - almost
scald
ingly hot.
I don't really understand why this means the boiler thermostat doesn't cut

out earlier - but I pass this on, being interested to see if anyone else
ha
s had experience of this product.
Keith




--

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 at 7:21:23 AM UTC, Keefiedee wrote:
I recently came across (while looking for something else) a product called UMAX, which is an additive for the water in a central heating system that is said to

"change the way water boils, making the water in your radiators hotter without turning them up. As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles forms which eventually join together and act as insulator between the gas firing and the water within the radiator circuit. Umax changes the way water boils so that only micro bubbles form which do not coalesce greatly increasing the heating efficiency and the transfer of heat from the boiler into the radiator circuit. (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mKxfzIuQLE)"

It sounded a bit far fetched, but I found some on eBay for just £3.99 post free, which was hardly going to break the bank, and lo and behold, it seems to work, insofar as the radiators really are a lot hotter - almost scaldingly hot.

I don't really understand why this means the boiler thermostat doesn't cut out earlier - but I pass this on, being interested to see if anyone else has had experience of this product.

Keith

A 10%-12% is significant. So much so that if rolled out and installed across the country, the CO2 targets set by government and the E.U would be met or at the very least reached MUCH sooner than expected. This would be a politician's Alchemy, a dream come true, it would be employed world wide and the inventors would be £££BILLIONAIRES... Think about it, think about it.

Here we are a year later...
Has this person beenblown up or are they now selling snake oil.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 at 7:21:23 AM UTC, Keefiedee wrote:
I recently came across (while looking for something else) a product called
UMAX, which is an additive for the water in a central heating system that
is said to

"change the way water boils, making the water in your radiators hotter
without turning them up. As water in a central heating system passes over
the heat exchanger in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will
boil on the hot metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular
bubbles forms which eventually join together and act as insulator between
the gas firing and the water within the radiator circuit. Umax changes the
way water boils so that only micro bubbles form which do not coalesce
greatly increasing the heating efficiency and the transfer of heat from
the boiler into the radiator circuit. (see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mKxfzIuQLE)"

It sounded a bit far fetched, but I found some on eBay for just £3.99 post
free, which was hardly going to break the bank, and lo and behold, it
seems to work, insofar as the radiators really are a lot hotter - almost
scaldingly hot.

I don't really understand why this means the boiler thermostat doesn't cut
out earlier - but I pass this on, being interested to see if anyone else
has had experience of this product.

Keith

A 10%-12% is significant. So much so that if rolled out and installed across
the country, the CO2 targets set by government and the E.U would be met or
at the very least reached MUCH sooner than expected. This would be a
politician's Alchemy, a dream come true, it would be employed world wide and
the inventors would be £££BILLIONAIRES... Think about it, think about it.

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 07:21:23 UTC, Keefiedee wrote:
I recently came across (while looking for something else) a product called UMAX, which is an additive for the water in a central heating system that is said to

"change the way water boils, making the water in your radiators hotter without turning them up. As water in a central heating system passes over the heat exchanger in the boiler, a small percentage of that water will boil on the hot metal surfaces. During this boiling a layer of irregular bubbles forms which eventually join together and act as insulator between the gas firing and the water within the radiator circuit. Umax changes the way water boils so that only micro bubbles form which do not coalesce greatly increasing the heating efficiency and the transfer of heat from the boiler into the radiator circuit. (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mKxfzIuQLE)"

It sounded a bit far fetched, but I found some on eBay for just £3.99 post free, which was hardly going to break the bank, and lo and behold, it seems to work, insofar as the radiators really are a lot hotter - almost scaldingly hot.

I don't really understand why this means the boiler thermostat doesn't cut out earlier - but I pass this on, being interested to see if anyone else has had experience of this product.

Keith

This has been around for a long time.
Do some research on "cavitation".
Theoretically it should work.
But in practice any benefits to heat transfer are miniscule.

A better effect can be had be increasing the system pressure which also reduces cavitation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation#Physics

replying to Keefiedee, Garry Selby wrote:
This product probably works as we purchased load cheap put it in various
houses and relative said it made differance thats not sciance BUT spoke to a
chemical engineer asked if it was word BULL he said it worked and were
developing their own version when BS standard was tested BUT dont go off the
inflated figures quoted lucky if it achieves 3% they were adding it to their
Inhibitor as a benefit And their we have it inhibitor not spending hours why
it works saves money 2 things GET a magnaclean that saves money put inhibitor
in dirty sytem cost money breakdowns and extra gas . so would I put product in
yea not at £20 17% is BULL fernox sell F6 quote 1% thats realistic one off
payment its good for say 5 year . have I experiance hope so we own over 50
property's we are gas safe registered we fix boilers service them and I saved
word is thousands after fitting Magnacleans and inhibitor yearly yes my break
down cost were high not now so whats that say .

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/umax-1010053-.htm

Oh dear obviously makes you unable to use punctuation or not muddle your
worms. Do you sell spam?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Garry Selby" m wrote in
message ...
replying to Keefiedee, Garry Selby wrote:
This product probably works as we purchased load cheap put it in various
houses and relative said it made differance thats not sciance BUT spoke to
a
chemical engineer asked if it was word BULL he said it worked and were
developing their own version when BS standard was tested BUT dont go off
the
inflated figures quoted lucky if it achieves 3% they were adding it to
their
Inhibitor as a benefit And their we have it inhibitor not spending hours
why
it works saves money 2 things GET a magnaclean that saves money put
inhibitor
in dirty sytem cost money breakdowns and extra gas . so would I put
product in
yea not at £20 17% is BULL fernox sell F6 quote 1% thats realistic one off
payment its good for say 5 year . have I experiance hope so we own over 50
property's we are gas safe registered we fix boilers service them and I
saved
word is thousands after fitting Magnacleans and inhibitor yearly yes my
break
down cost were high not now so whats that say .
--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/umax-1010053-.htm

replying to Garry Selby, Bob wrote:
That was three years ago.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/umax-1010053-.htm