On 16/08/2014 08:53, charles wrote:
In article , harryagain
wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 15/08/2014 19:09, John Williamson wrote: ...
Horses do have a use in societies that don't have sufficient technical
resources to make tractors or want them in their society...

The British Army, otherwise the only fully mechanised army in the world
in 1939, also had a few cavalry units in the Middle East, where the
terrain was unsuitable for the vehicles of the day.

The Germans had lots when they invaded Poland.

wrong way round. The Poles still had cavalry - the Germans had tanks.


The German army, indeed all armies in 1939 except the British army,
still depended upon horses for their supply lines.

--
Colin Bignell

"harryagain" wrote in message ...


"Tim Streater" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie grain
or these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats
just to feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates
Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

harry might have heard of the countryside, but I doubt if he's ever
been there.

I used to own a farm ****-fer-brans.

Tend to find the fibre in the brans causes that.

On 16/08/14 09:15, John Williamson wrote:
On 16/08/2014 08:35, harryagain wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie
grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats
just
to feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates
Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

harry might have heard of the countryside, but I doubt if he's ever
been there.

I used to own a farm ****-fer-brans.


I know of several farms which are entirely within an urban situation.

we weren't talking cannabis farms.

Though harry probably was.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

Chris Hogg wrote:

Despite the fact that the fuel (grasses) can grow and set seed for
free, so much intervention, maintenance and support was necessary
that horse-power was unable to meet the needs of society a hundred
years ago, and wouldn't be able to do so today despite huge
improvements in farming methods.

Maybe we could breed horses intensively, feed them on seaweed so the
fuel doesn't require acres of land valuable for growing food crops, and
put them on treadmills in equine power stations?

A couple of million horses doing 12 hour shifts should equal one nuke,
what would be the FIT rate?

On 16/08/2014 11:46, Andy Burns wrote:
A couple of million horses doing 12 hour shifts should equal one nuke,
what would be the FIT rate?

First, double the equine population from today's million-ish! Then
consider that the population in 1900 was nearer three million horses...

--
Rod

On 16/08/2014 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/14 09:15, John Williamson wrote:
On 16/08/2014 08:35, harryagain wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie
grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats
just
to feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates
Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

harry might have heard of the countryside, but I doubt if he's ever
been there.

I used to own a farm ****-fer-brans.


I know of several farms which are entirely within an urban situation.

we weren't talking cannabis farms.

Though harry probably was.


I wasn't. :-

hackneycityfarm.co.uk/

Others are available in most cities.

Okay, they're more animal petting zoos than proper farms, but...

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 16/08/2014 08:33, harryagain wrote:

They have far from disappeared and may return in numbers one day.

You do realise that there are more horses in the UK now than there were
when they were used as a mainstay of transport, don't you?

They're now regarded almost entirely as rich people's toys,including the
ones that "work" by pulling carts and carriages round town.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2014 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/14 09:15, John Williamson wrote:
On 16/08/2014 08:35, harryagain wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie
grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats
just
to feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates
Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

harry might have heard of the countryside, but I doubt if he's ever
been there.

I used to own a farm ****-fer-brans.


I know of several farms which are entirely within an urban situation.

we weren't talking cannabis farms.

Though harry probably was.


I wasn't. :-

hackneycityfarm.co.uk/

Others are available in most cities.

Okay, they're more animal petting zoos than proper farms, but...

So this is where you get your information about farming/horses from?

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Aug 2014 08:33:04 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats just
to
feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates

Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

Grains are the concentrated high energy part of grass.
But just as we do, horses need roughage.

Tractors are less work to maintain and more convenience.
Horses are lots of work (and vet's bills)
Also no neccessity to grow the foodstuff for horses.
Also more power in a smaller space.
Efficiency, not much in it.
The by product from horses is useful.

You make my point precisely, Harry. Despite the fact that the fuel
(grasses) can grow and set seed for free, so much intervention,
maintenance and support was necessary that horse-power was unable to
meet the needs of society a hundred years ago, and wouldn't be able to
do so today despite huge improvements in farming methods.

That situation is perfectly analogous to wind, solar and tidal power.
The energy sources may be free, but the effort and cost required
reliably to capture and utilise that energy make those sources totally
inappropriate for the needs of today's society. Like horse-power, they
will find applications in niche areas, but also like horse-power,
never in significant amounts.

They have far from disappeared and may return in numbers one day.

That sums you up completely, Harry. You live in a fantasy world.

Technology has moved on.
At some point in the near future fossil fuel will become uneconomical/too
polluting
The use of fossil fuels is a mere blip in the progress of technology.
Society will have to change.
Indeed has massively changed even in my lifetime.

Much of the change will be in improved energy use efficiency.

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2014 08:33, harryagain wrote:

They have far from disappeared and may return in numbers one day.

You do realise that there are more horses in the UK now than there were
when they were used as a mainstay of transport, don't you?

No I didn't.
Not sure if I believe it unless you are including third world countries.
There are lots in Brasil and other S. American countries

But there oxen are more common, they are more fuel efficient.

On 16/08/2014 13:11, John Williamson wrote:
On 16/08/2014 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/14 09:15, John Williamson wrote:
.....
I know of several farms which are entirely within an urban situation.

we weren't talking cannabis farms.

Though harry probably was.


I wasn't. :-

hackneycityfarm.co.uk/

Others are available in most cities.

Okay, they're more animal petting zoos than proper farms, but...


I know of a working farm quite near to the centre of a town. It is part
of a convent and provides work for the nuns. While the land is
undoubtedly very valuable, the Order won't sell it.

--
Colin Bignell

On 16/08/2014 16:21, harryagain wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2014 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/14 09:15, John Williamson wrote:
On 16/08/2014 08:35, harryagain wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie
grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats
just
to feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates
Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

harry might have heard of the countryside, but I doubt if he's ever
been there.

I used to own a farm ****-fer-brans.


I know of several farms which are entirely within an urban situation.

we weren't talking cannabis farms.

Though harry probably was.


I wasn't. :-

hackneycityfarm.co.uk/

Others are available in most cities.

Okay, they're more animal petting zoos than proper farms, but...

So this is where you get your information about farming/horses from?


Nope. Not all of it, at any rate.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 16/08/2014 16:31, harryagain wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2014 08:33, harryagain wrote:

They have far from disappeared and may return in numbers one day.

You do realise that there are more horses in the UK now than there were
when they were used as a mainstay of transport, don't you?

No I didn't.
Not sure if I believe it unless you are including third world countries.
There are lots in Brasil and other S. American countries

Since when were third world countries part of the UK, harry? I know
we're rapidly becoming one, but we're not there yet.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Chris Hogg wrote:



That sums you up completely, Harry. You live in a fantasy world.


Don't most clairvoyants?

In message , harryagain
writes

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
.. .

Big snip

Tractors are less work to maintain and more convenience.
Horses are lots of work (and vet's bills)
Also no neccessity to grow the foodstuff for horses.
Also more power in a smaller space.
Efficiency, not much in it.
The by product from horses is useful.

You make my point precisely, Harry. Despite the fact that the fuel
(grasses) can grow and set seed for free, so much intervention,
maintenance and support was necessary that horse-power was unable to
meet the needs of society a hundred years ago, and wouldn't be able to
do so today despite huge improvements in farming methods.

That situation is perfectly analogous to wind, solar and tidal power.
The energy sources may be free, but the effort and cost required
reliably to capture and utilise that energy make those sources totally
inappropriate for the needs of today's society. Like horse-power, they
will find applications in niche areas, but also like horse-power,
never in significant amounts.

They have far from disappeared and may return in numbers one day.

That sums you up completely, Harry. You live in a fantasy world.

Technology has moved on.
At some point in the near future fossil fuel will become uneconomical/too
polluting
The use of fossil fuels is a mere blip in the progress of technology.
Society will have to change.
Indeed has massively changed even in my lifetime.

Much of the change will be in improved energy use efficiency.

There was a working horse on this farm in 1950. Retained for jobs
tractors could not then do.

Otherwise they were displaced in 1941 when the War Ag committee required
suitable grassland to be ploughed and provided tractors and machinery to
do the job.

By the time fuel cost outweighs crop value the anti-gm brigade will have
been told to shut up and high yielding, insect resisting, BL weed spray
resistant perennial cereals developed.



--
Tim Lamb

In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats just to
feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates

Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

...and don't produce cart loads of ****.
--
bert

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Aug 2014 08:33:04 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats just
to
feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates

Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

Grains are the concentrated high energy part of grass.
But just as we do, horses need roughage.

Tractors are less work to maintain and more convenience.
Horses are lots of work (and vet's bills)
Also no neccessity to grow the foodstuff for horses.
Also more power in a smaller space.
Efficiency, not much in it.
The by product from horses is useful.

You make my point precisely, Harry. Despite the fact that the fuel
(grasses) can grow and set seed for free, so much intervention,
maintenance and support was necessary that horse-power was unable to
meet the needs of society a hundred years ago, and wouldn't be able to
do so today despite huge improvements in farming methods.

That situation is perfectly analogous to wind, solar and tidal power.
The energy sources may be free, but the effort and cost required
reliably to capture and utilise that energy make those sources totally
inappropriate for the needs of today's society. Like horse-power, they
will find applications in niche areas, but also like horse-power,
never in significant amounts.

They have far from disappeared and may return in numbers one day.

That sums you up completely, Harry. You live in a fantasy world.

You're the one in the fantansy world.
Thinking things will/can always go on as before.
A sign of old age/impending dementia.
Fortunately you are in a minority, most people see sense.

Renewable energy is the only one no-one can take away from us.
Nuclear is far too expensive, dangerous, it's use is totally irresponsible.

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats just
to
feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates

Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

..and don't produce cart loads of ****.
--
bert

The horse **** is a very useful product.
Unlike the **** we get from burning fossil fuels.

On 17/08/2014 06:45, harryagain wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
That sums you up completely, Harry. You live in a fantasy world.

You're the one in the fantansy world.
Thinking things will/can always go on as before.
A sign of old age/impending dementia.
Fortunately you are in a minority, most people see sense.

Renewable energy is the only one no-one can take away from us.
Nuclear is far too expensive, dangerous, it's use is totally irresponsible.


Nuclear is much cheaper than wind, and much safer per terawatt hour
generated.

It's also far more reliable and long lasting than any renewable solution
so far discovered.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 17/08/2014 06:47, harryagain wrote:
"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Chris Hogg
writes
Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

..and don't produce cart loads of ****.
--
bert

The horse **** is a very useful product.
Just like the **** we get from burning fossil fuels.


I corrected your typo for you.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article ,
harryagain wrote:

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats just
to
feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates

Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

..and don't produce cart loads of ****.
--
bert

The horse **** is a very useful product.

True, if you have the facilities for coping with it. London nearly became
overwhelmed with it during the horse-drawn omnibus era.


Unlike the **** we get from burning fossil fuels.

Breeze blocks, clinker blocks, ---

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

charles wrote:

harryagain wrote:

Unlike the **** we get from burning fossil fuels.

Breeze blocks, clinker blocks

plasterboard from flue gas de-sulphurisation.

On 17/08/2014 06:45, harryagain wrote:


Renewable energy is the only one no-one can take away from us.
Nuclear is far too expensive, dangerous, it's use is totally irresponsible.



So why do you use nuclear power then harry?

On 16/08/2014 19:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
.....
Otherwise they were displaced in 1941 when the War Ag committee required
suitable grassland to be ploughed and provided tractors and machinery to
do the job....

With 50,000 tractors in Britain at the start of the war, our farming was
already among the most highly mechanised in the world. The increase to
150,000 tractors by the end of the war was part of a massive planned
change to what we produced at home, aimed at reducing the amount of
shipping needed. In 1938, we bred nearly half the meat we ate, but grew
only 20% of the cereals. During the war, beef cattle virtually
disappeared from Britain, in favour of growing wheat and oats, which
were actually described as ship saving crops.


--
Colin Bignell

In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes
On 16/08/2014 19:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
....
Otherwise they were displaced in 1941 when the War Ag committee required
suitable grassland to be ploughed and provided tractors and machinery to
do the job....

With 50,000 tractors in Britain at the start of the war, our farming
was already among the most highly mechanised in the world. The increase
to 150,000 tractors by the end of the war was part of a massive planned
change to what we produced at home, aimed at reducing the amount of
shipping needed. In 1938, we bred nearly half the meat we ate, but grew
only 20% of the cereals. During the war, beef cattle virtually
disappeared from Britain, in favour of growing wheat and oats, which
were actually described as ship saving crops.

My father was *given* a 1928 Standard Fordson with cast iron spikes on
the driving wheels. Petrol/TVO engine with magneto ignition.

The old ploughed up *Sheep walks* here were too poor (still are) to grow
Wheat but Oats and Barley were OK. Fertiliser and lime spreading were
supported which continued long after 1945. All the local farms had 12
head of dairy cows, probably limited by hand milking.

I don't think it was hugely efficient but the produce was controlled
(egg, milk marketing boards etc.) so got shared across the country.



--
Tim Lamb

On 17/08/2014 14:57, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes
On 16/08/2014 19:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
....
Otherwise they were displaced in 1941 when the War Ag committee required
suitable grassland to be ploughed and provided tractors and machinery to
do the job....

With 50,000 tractors in Britain at the start of the war, our farming
was already among the most highly mechanised in the world. The
increase to 150,000 tractors by the end of the war was part of a
massive planned change to what we produced at home, aimed at reducing
the amount of shipping needed. In 1938, we bred nearly half the meat
we ate, but grew only 20% of the cereals. During the war, beef cattle
virtually disappeared from Britain, in favour of growing wheat and
oats, which were actually described as ship saving crops.

My father was *given* a 1928 Standard Fordson with cast iron spikes on
the driving wheels. Petrol/TVO engine with magneto ignition.

Described by one source as the Model T of the tractor world, but we
could build them in Britain.

The old ploughed up *Sheep walks* here were too poor (still are) to grow
Wheat but Oats and Barley were OK. Fertiliser and lime spreading were
supported which continued long after 1945. All the local farms had 12
head of dairy cows, probably limited by hand milking.

Dairy herds were increased where possible. Fresh milk was seen as an
essential resource and, unlike cereals, virtually none was imported.
Dairy cattle were also used as a source of meat, which actually resulted
in a slight rise in home production of meat, despite the reduction in
beef herds.

I don't think it was hugely efficient but the produce was controlled
(egg, milk marketing boards etc.) so got shared across the country.

The main point was, where possible, to produce bulky goods at home, so
that the amount of shipping needed was reduced. Domestic wheat
production doubled in two years, with potatoes (which gave one of the
largest food value per acre) and barley not far behind.

It wasn't limited to Britain. An estimated one million tons of shipping
was saved in the year to March 1943 by growing supplies for the troops
in the Middle East locally.


--
Colin Bignell

In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes
The main point was, where possible, to produce bulky goods at home, so
that the amount of shipping needed was reduced. Domestic wheat
production doubled in two years, with potatoes (which gave one of the
largest food value per acre) and barley not far behind.

It wasn't limited to Britain. An estimated one million tons of shipping
was saved in the year to March 1943 by growing supplies for the troops
in the Middle East locally.

I don't imagine Harry was seriously suggesting a return to horsepower
but mechanisation got around one problem... ploughing! Roughly 1 horse=
1 acre/day. Winter wheat needs planting by mid October to crop well.
Horse farming relied on the ploughman working right through the winter
to prepare sufficient ground for planting in the spring.



--
Tim Lamb

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 06:45:29 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

Renewable energy is the only one no-one can take away from us.
Nuclear is far too expensive, dangerous, it's use is totally
irresponsible.

Not as dangerous as farming Harry, that you say you were involved in.
Farming accounts for almost 1 in 5 deaths in the workplace and is
still the most dangerous profession to work in. Overall, 148 workers
were killed in the UK between April 2012 and March 2013.
Source:
http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/03/07/...n-says-hse.htm

I'm amazed you went anywhere near it, you seem so concerned with
dangerous industries. Very irresponsible of you!

I thought fishing was the most dangerous occupation.
I lived on the farm but it was not my occupation. It was a nice place to
live.
NP4 8TT on Google maps/earth.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
harryagain wrote:

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie grain
or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats
just
to
feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates

Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

..and don't produce cart loads of ****.
--
bert

The horse **** is a very useful product.

True, if you have the facilities for coping with it. London nearly became
overwhelmed with it during the horse-drawn omnibus era.


Unlike the **** we get from burning fossil fuels.

Breeze blocks, clinker blocks, ---

Drivel.
Who wants slightly radioactive building blocks laced with arsenic and other
heavy metals?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cement#...in_the_clinker

They are not made any more.
The "breeze blocks" you see advertised are not actually made from breeze.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
charles wrote:

harryagain wrote:

Unlike the **** we get from burning fossil fuels.

Breeze blocks, clinker blocks

plasterboard from flue gas de-sulphurisation.

And the rest of the stuff?
Contaminated plasterboard.

In message , harryagain
writes

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:16:57 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:



Yes I can see you know nothing about horses.
Working horses need high energy food additionally to grass, ie grain or
these days "concentrates".
In days of yore,large areas of land were set aside for growing oats just
to
feed horses and oxen.
You don't get energy from nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_...n#Concentrates

Grass Harry. All grains (wheat, barley, oats etc), they're all
grasses, or didn't you know that? Concentrates are made from them. So
why have all these green machines, the horses, disappeared, Harry?
It's because they've been replaced by infinitely more efficient
machines that burn fuels such as coal or oil.

..and don't produce cart loads of ****.
--
bert

The horse **** is a very useful product.
Unlike the **** we get from burning fossil fuels.


Not in the quantities produced in large cities before the internal
combustion engine came along.
--
bert

On 14/08/2014 21:34, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Vir
Campestris wrote:

On 13/08/2014 13:09, Tim Streater wrote:
Which will still leave you with residual ripple.

Ripple on tides? Whatever next

More seriously though - one tidal system has a power output ranging
from 0% (at high or low tide; slack water) to 100% (mid tide, peak flow)

Two out of phase add up nicely - I think if they are true sines you'll
get 70% of peak at worst.

They have to be exactly out of phase and the same amplitude, otherwise
you get residual ripple.


You _will_ get ripple. Of at least 30%.

But the fuel is free, you can always run them at partial power.

The problem with tidal is just that there aren't enough sites.

Andy

On 16/08/2014 08:35, harryagain wrote:

I used to own a farm ****-fer-brans.


Just out of interest, how much of it was done with horses, and how much
with fossil fuel?

Andy

On 17/08/2014 21:14, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 16/08/2014 08:35, harryagain wrote:

I used to own a farm ****-fer-brans.


Just out of interest, how much of it was done with horses, and how much
with fossil fuel?

Andy

Haven't you seen a solar powered tractor? (Silly me, would be better to
use diesel for that and get the FIT.)

--
Rod

On Sat, 16 Aug 2014 11:28:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


harry might have heard of the countryside, but I doubt if he's ever
been there.

I used to own a farm ****-fer-brans.


I know of several farms which are entirely within an urban situation.

we weren't talking cannabis farms.

Though harry probably was.

With his obsession with **** it would be a sewage farm , sometimes by
his outpourings I think he must still own it.

G.Harman

On 17/08/2014 17:38, Tim Lamb wrote:
....
I don't imagine Harry was seriously suggesting a return to horsepower
....

I sometimes wonder what Harry is seriously suggesting, as none of his
proposals are practical, except for a very few living with the support
of a highly industrialised country that is not relying upon the
technology he espouses. I can't help but feel that a lot of his postings
are trying to justify to himself having spent as much money as he did on
his house.


--
Colin Bignell

On 17/08/2014 22:13, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , harryagain
wrote:
....
Who wants slightly radioactive building blocks laced with arsenic and
other heavy metals?

All breeze blocks are slightly radioactive. Granite and coal are too,
more so.

There is also quite good, if circumstantial, evidence that slightly
raised background radiation levels are good for human health.

--
Colin Bignell

On 17/08/2014 21:02, bert wrote:
In message , harryagain
writes
.....
The horse **** is a very useful product.
Unlike the **** we get from burning fossil fuels.


Not in the quantities produced in large cities before the internal
combustion engine came along.

In 1894, a writer in The Times estimated that, within 50 years, the
streets of London would be nine feet deep in horse manure.

--
Colin Bignell

In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes
On 17/08/2014 21:02, bert wrote:
In message , harryagain
writes
....
The horse **** is a very useful product.
Unlike the **** we get from burning fossil fuels.


Not in the quantities produced in large cities before the internal
combustion engine came along.

In 1894, a writer in The Times estimated that, within 50 years, the
streets of London would be nine feet deep in horse manure.

There was reputed to be a lively trade in horse **** and reportedly,
Elephant dung, exported from North London via our branch line opened in
1860. The return product was Lea Valley water cress.

One has to hope the trucks were cleaned at some stage.


--
Tim Lamb

In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes
On 17/08/2014 17:38, Tim Lamb wrote:
...
I don't imagine Harry was seriously suggesting a return to horsepower
...

I sometimes wonder what Harry is seriously suggesting, as none of his
proposals are practical, except for a very few living with the support
of a highly industrialised country that is not relying upon the
technology he espouses. I can't help but feel that a lot of his
postings are trying to justify to himself having spent as much money as
he did on his house.

It can be very hard admitting being wrong about something particularly
if it involves close family.

Presumably Mrs. Harry had to be convinced that living in an insulated
but ugly home was necessary to save the planet. Every argument which
questions this position must be rubbished if sound reasoning is not
available.

I can sympathise with the original PV investment on a purely commercial
basis: 15K spent, no intention to ever relocate, original FIT
payment....



--
Tim Lamb