On previous landscaping projects after preparing ground .. have given
the area a dusting with a non-selective weed-killer, then laid Geotex
weed membrane on top.


The product I used was Boracil (aka Bromacil).... but this is no longer
on sale.
This was a broad spectrum herbicides for non-selective weed killing, it
entered plants via roots not vis leaves.

Councils used it under tarmac when laying pavements.


Most weed-killers need leaf growth to allow take down to roots .... in
this instance there is no left growth, being used as preventative.
Which would rule out 2,4-D products (and presumably 2,4,5-T)



Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

On 14/07/14 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:
On previous landscaping projects after preparing ground .. have given
the area a dusting with a non-selective weed-killer, then laid Geotex
weed membrane on top.


The product I used was Boracil (aka Bromacil).... but this is no longer
on sale.
This was a broad spectrum herbicides for non-selective weed killing, it
entered plants via roots not vis leaves.

Councils used it under tarmac when laying pavements.


Most weed-killers need leaf growth to allow take down to roots .... in
this instance there is no left growth, being used as preventative.
Which would rule out 2,4-D products (and presumably 2,4,5-T)



Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Hard because it was banned a couple of years back. Though some people
may still have a pot kicking about *cough*


Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?



Nothing on the bottle says Sodium Chlorate. I think they are lying -
it's an alternative. Especially as chlorate was always sold in crystal
form and that item is a solution.

On Monday, July 14, 2014 12:24:24 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/07/14 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:

On previous landscaping projects after preparing ground .. have given

the area a dusting with a non-selective weed-killer, then laid Geotex

weed membrane on top.





The product I used was Boracil (aka Bromacil).... but this is no longer

on sale.

This was a broad spectrum herbicides for non-selective weed killing, it

entered plants via roots not vis leaves.



Councils used it under tarmac when laying pavements.





Most weed-killers need leaf growth to allow take down to roots .... in

this instance there is no left growth, being used as preventative.

Which would rule out 2,4-D products (and presumably 2,4,5-T)







Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic

Sodium Chlorate.



Hard because it was banned a couple of years back. Though some people

may still have a pot kicking about *cough*





Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale

since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..



Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?







Nothing on the bottle says Sodium Chlorate. I think they are lying -

it's an alternative. Especially as chlorate was always sold in crystal

form and that item is a solution.

I've been using 'Premazor' as an alternative to Simazine and find it quite good. It can be mixed with Roundup for use as a single application.

On 14/07/14 12:24, Tim Watts wrote:
Sodium Chlorate.

Hard because it was banned a couple of years back. Though some people
may still have a pot kicking about *cough*

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Industrial-S...dp/B00JR3NBMA/

seems to be above board and pukka

--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 14/07/2014 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:
....
Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


The EU Directive banned it for use as a 'plant protection product' (i.e.
weed killer). As the overwhelming use of the chemical was for bleaching
paper, it may well still be available as a commercial chemical, just not
as a weed killer.

--
Colin Bignell

On 14/07/14 15:27, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:
...
Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


The EU Directive banned it for use as a 'plant protection product' (i.e.
weed killer). As the overwhelming use of the chemical was for bleaching
paper, it may well still be available as a commercial chemical, just not
as a weed killer.

Its being sold as weedkiller

I think the ban was retail only. Not wholesale.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 14/07/2014 15:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/07/14 15:27, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:
...
Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


The EU Directive banned it for use as a 'plant protection product' (i.e.
weed killer). As the overwhelming use of the chemical was for bleaching
paper, it may well still be available as a commercial chemical, just not
as a weed killer.

Its being sold as weedkiller

I think the ban was retail only. Not wholesale.

ICBA to look through a dozen EU Directives, 20 Regulations and a huge
number of Decisions to be sure, but AIUI, this is part of a wide range
of measures that are intended to remove substances that are deemed
harmful to the environment from use as weed killers. There should be no
differentiation between retail and wholesale supplies. If there is a
difference, it is likely only to be in timescales.

--
Colin Bignell

On 14/07/14 15:49, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 15:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/07/14 15:27, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:
...
Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


The EU Directive banned it for use as a 'plant protection product' (i.e.
weed killer). As the overwhelming use of the chemical was for bleaching
paper, it may well still be available as a commercial chemical, just not
as a weed killer.

Its being sold as weedkiller

I think the ban was retail only. Not wholesale.

ICBA to look through a dozen EU Directives, 20 Regulations and a huge
number of Decisions to be sure, but AIUI, this is part of a wide range
of measures that are intended to remove substances that are deemed
harmful to the environment from use as weed killers. There should be no
differentiation between retail and wholesale supplies. If there is a
difference, it is likely only to be in timescales.


Chlorate wasn't banned because it was harmful to the 'environment'. It
was banned because its a fine explosive.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 14/07/2014 16:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/07/14 15:49, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 15:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/07/14 15:27, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:
...
Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


The EU Directive banned it for use as a 'plant protection product'
(i.e.
weed killer). As the overwhelming use of the chemical was for bleaching
paper, it may well still be available as a commercial chemical, just
not
as a weed killer.

Its being sold as weedkiller

I think the ban was retail only. Not wholesale.

ICBA to look through a dozen EU Directives, 20 Regulations and a huge
number of Decisions to be sure, but AIUI, this is part of a wide range
of measures that are intended to remove substances that are deemed
harmful to the environment from use as weed killers. There should be no
differentiation between retail and wholesale supplies. If there is a
difference, it is likely only to be in timescales.


Chlorate wasn't banned because it was harmful to the 'environment'.

It is classed as harmful to aquatic life, with long lasting effects
(besides being harmful if ingested and as an oxidising agent).

It
was banned because its a fine explosive.

That was dealt with fairly early on in the IRA campaign by the use of
additives and the EU Directive that banned it is only aimed at removing
plant protection products that present hazards to human life or the
environment, which seems to cover just about every effective weed
killer, fumigant and pesticide.

--
Colin Bignell

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 14/07/2014 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:
...
Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


The EU Directive banned it for use as a 'plant protection product' (i.e.
weed killer). As the overwhelming use of the chemical was for bleaching
paper, it may well still be available as a commercial chemical, just not
as a weed killer.


and here was me thinking most old skool weed killers were banned because
certain people like to mix it with diesel and do naughty things with the
result.

On 14/07/2014 16:58, Gazz wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 14/07/2014 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:
...
Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


The EU Directive banned it for use as a 'plant protection product'
(i.e. weed killer). As the overwhelming use of the chemical was for
bleaching paper, it may well still be available as a commercial
chemical, just not as a weed killer.


and here was me thinking most old skool weed killers were banned because
certain people like to mix it with diesel and do naughty things with the
result.

That resulted in the introduction of fireproofed sodium chlorate.

--
Colin Bignell

In article , Nightjar
"cpb"@ "insert my surname here@?.? scribeth thus
On 14/07/2014 16:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/07/14 15:49, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 15:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/07/14 15:27, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 12:13, Rick Hughes wrote:
...
Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


The EU Directive banned it for use as a 'plant protection product'
(i.e.
weed killer). As the overwhelming use of the chemical was for bleaching
paper, it may well still be available as a commercial chemical, just
not
as a weed killer.

Its being sold as weedkiller

I think the ban was retail only. Not wholesale.

ICBA to look through a dozen EU Directives, 20 Regulations and a huge
number of Decisions to be sure, but AIUI, this is part of a wide range
of measures that are intended to remove substances that are deemed
harmful to the environment from use as weed killers. There should be no
differentiation between retail and wholesale supplies. If there is a
difference, it is likely only to be in timescales.


Chlorate wasn't banned because it was harmful to the 'environment'.

It is classed as harmful to aquatic life, with long lasting effects
(besides being harmful if ingested and as an oxidising agent).

It
was banned because its a fine explosive.

That was dealt with fairly early on in the IRA campaign by the use of
additives and the EU Directive that banned it is only aimed at removing
plant protection products that present hazards to human life or the
environment, which seems to cover just about every effective weed
killer, fumigant and pesticide.


When I were a lad etc, 40 odd years ago, we mixed that with most
anything, sugar, diesel oil and whilst it burnt rapidly it wasn't until
you enclosed it in a container or steel pipe etc it went bang unless
there was something else everyone was using;?..
--
Tony Sayer

On 14/07/2014 17:12, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 16:58, Gazz wrote:


That resulted in the introduction of fireproofed sodium chlorate.

I've always wondered what the chemistry of this was. Probably not a good
idea even to ask about it now!

On 14/07/2014 17:29, newshound wrote:
On 14/07/2014 17:12, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/07/2014 16:58, Gazz wrote:


That resulted in the introduction of fireproofed sodium chlorate.

I've always wondered what the chemistry of this was. Probably not a good
idea even to ask about it now!

It was mixed with at least 32% of sodium chloride, sodium carbonate or
borax, along with an anti-caking agent. I don't see any problems with
publishing details of how to *stop* something being used in an
explosive. These days I would probably get locked up for what we did in
sixth form chemistry lessons though.

--
Colin Bignell

I expect the bomb makers are asking for it to continue to be available..
grin.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
On previous landscaping projects after preparing ground .. have given the
area a dusting with a non-selective weed-killer, then laid Geotex weed
membrane on top.


The product I used was Boracil (aka Bromacil).... but this is no longer on
sale.
This was a broad spectrum herbicides for non-selective weed killing, it
entered plants via roots not vis leaves.

Councils used it under tarmac when laying pavements.


Most weed-killers need leaf growth to allow take down to roots .... in
this instance there is no left growth, being used as preventative.
Which would rule out 2,4-D products (and presumably 2,4,5-T)



Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?


--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
On previous landscaping projects after preparing ground .. have given the
area a dusting with a non-selective weed-killer, then laid Geotex weed
membrane on top.


The product I used was Boracil (aka Bromacil).... but this is no longer on
sale.
This was a broad spectrum herbicides for non-selective weed killing, it
entered plants via roots not vis leaves.

Councils used it under tarmac when laying pavements.


Most weed-killers need leaf growth to allow take down to roots .... in
this instance there is no left growth, being used as preventative.
Which would rule out 2,4-D products (and presumably 2,4,5-T)



Anybody aware of a good replacement, or do I need to go back to basic
Sodium Chlorate.

Loads of posts on line that Sodium Chlorate has been banned from sale
since 2008 and cannot be used after 10th May 2010 ..

Yet it is on sale on Amazon ?

I've never used anything like that after preparing ground, if it's been
flagged over, the sand/cement bed is better than any weedkiller, and if it's
getting stone or bark (minimum 100mm in my case) it gets weed membrane, two
layers of, cross bonded and sealed around the edges with concrete

In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes

snip
Chlorate wasn't banned because it was harmful to the 'environment'.

It is classed as harmful to aquatic life, with long lasting effects
(besides being harmful if ingested and as an oxidising agent).

It
was banned because its a fine explosive.

That was dealt with fairly early on in the IRA campaign by the use of
additives and the EU Directive that banned it is only aimed at removing
plant protection products that present hazards to human life or the
environment, which seems to cover just about every effective weed
killer, fumigant and pesticide.

Umm.. I think the *additives* also refer to high *N* content
agricultural fertilisers (Ammonium Nitrate) available by the ton in NI.


--
Tim Lamb