Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 16/04/2014 08:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?


Restart the phone to clear the decks.
Disable non-essential apps from automatically syncing in the background.
Turn wifi and GPS off, except when you actually need them.

On 16/04/2014 08:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?



Settings / Power / Usage may help (It's on Jellybean, not sure about
other Android versions).

Also there are several battery monitoring apps - I use
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ccc71.bmw


--
Reentrant

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:12:28 +0100, nemo wrote:

Restart the phone to clear the decks.

Yep, my Galaxy SIII mini started to lie about the status of data. No
Icon, settings dialog says it's off. But if you tried to turn it on
you still got no indication. Ignored it for a day then got an
unexpected low battery warning and guess what data icon was on and I
hadn't even touched the phone...

Disable non-essential apps from automatically syncing in the background.
Turn wifi and GPS off, except when you actually need them.

And turn off data. Even if there is no traffic it still draws power
to keep the radio on.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 08:31:35 +0100, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?

Apparently the facebook app consumes relatively huge amount of power.
Google on key words smartphone facebook app battery for many articles
on this topic.

Nick

On 16/04/2014 08:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

Check it hasn't enabled 3G packet data or something.

Also listen out for it rebooting frequently - that hammers the batteries
in regions with marginal signal levels. My wifes Samsung phone was
particularly bad for this behaviour on the O2 network.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?

Check the settings and disable as many "features" as you can.

I still much prefer a dumb phone that does *one* thing (being a phone)
well and will last for the best part of a week between being recharged.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 08:31:35 +0100, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?

The settings pages should tell you.

Also, have a look at an app like JuiceDefender. Seems to double the
battery life on my S2 (well, for one more day...new phone arrives today!)



--
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My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
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*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 16/04/14 08:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?


download avg antivirus
and malwarebytes
just in case
[g]

Are you sure its not just the battery getting old?
I know a lot of phones do take significant current on gps and some
monitoring tasks.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news
Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day, maybe
dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , Jethro_uk
writes
SWMBO has a HTC Wildfire, which is a lower end phone. Can't get rid of
Facebook or Youtube, or stop them running. Result is phone hasn't got
enough memory for updates, because of the weird way Android seems to
have minimum system memory, but acres of data memory.

I wish I could find a simple explanation of why Android works like this.
On tablets here, they are always running out of memory in spite of
running every memory manager I can find and regularly going in, stopping
applications and removing data, and running Malwarebytes.
The machine with 512megs is hopeless, yet a few weeks back I replaced an
XP machine that was still running useably, if slowly, for an elderly
lady on 256megs.
Things like the App Store are particularly bad. Why is it using mega
memory when I'm not using it? And why have I still got almost all the
8gigs of main memory sitting there empty?
--
Bill

On 16/04/2014 08:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?

Once its been running for a bit, go to the Battery entry on the main
settings menu - that should tell you what has been using the lions share
of the juice.

(also keep in mind, that as the batts get older, their capacity drops)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16/04/2014 10:14, Huge wrote:
And delete Facebook.

What a wonderful idea. And don't leave a copy in the Way Back Machine.

--
Rod

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:17:23 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/04/2014 08:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.



Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,

maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.



For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.



Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,

any idea what?



Once its been running for a bit, go to the Battery entry on the main

settings menu - that should tell you what has been using the lions share

of the juice.



(also keep in mind, that as the batts get older, their capacity drops)





--

Cheers,



John.



/================================================== ===============\

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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|

| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |

\================================================= ================/

Assuming the Ace2 works the same as the Ace the required menu is in settings about phone battery use. FWIW I keep wifi, BT and GPS off and just about get 3 days out of my Ace with a few voice calls and regular email updates.

On 16/04/2014 20:34, wrote:

Assuming the Ace2 works the same as the Ace the required menu is in
settings about phone battery use. FWIW I keep wifi, BT and GPS
off and just about get 3 days out of my Ace with a few voice calls
and regular email updates.

I find WiFi is the big killer on mine (Xperia mini pro - teeny 950 mAh
battery to match the phone). GPS only seems to suck power when an app is
using it, and BT is not too heavy.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
========================/

Assuming the Ace2 works the same as the Ace the required menu is in settings about phone battery use. FWIW I keep wifi, BT and GPS off and just about get 3 days out of my Ace with a few voice calls and regular email update

I leave GPS off but wifi and data on with power saving and it lasts a
working day (13hr) but when it auto updated this reduced to 5 hours, a
factory reset and denying updates seems to maintain battery best.

I just wish I could switch off all the built in google and samsung
clutter and reload just what I need.

AJH

Bill wrote:
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
SWMBO has a HTC Wildfire, which is a lower end phone. Can't get rid of
Facebook or Youtube, or stop them running. Result is phone hasn't got
enough memory for updates, because of the weird way Android seems to
have minimum system memory, but acres of data memory.

I wish I could find a simple explanation of why Android works like this.
On tablets here, they are always running out of memory in spite of
running every memory manager I can find and regularly going in, stopping
applications and removing data, and running Malwarebytes.

Data memory tends to be non-volatile and therefore slow to access.
Processor memory is volatile and quick but more expensive and power
hungry. So you get lots of storage but not much space to work in.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

in 1304547 20140416 115000 Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:41:33 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2014-04-16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:14:50 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2014-04-16, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:12:28 +0100, nemo wrote:

Restart the phone to clear the decks.

Yep, my Galaxy SIII mini started to lie about the status of data. No
Icon, settings dialog says it's off. But if you tried to turn it on
you still got no indication. Ignored it for a day then got an
unexpected low battery warning and guess what data icon was on and I
hadn't even touched the phone...

Disable non-essential apps from automatically syncing in the
background.
Turn wifi and GPS off, except when you actually need them.

And turn off data. Even if there is no traffic it still draws power
to keep the radio on.

And delete Facebook.

Depending on the version of Android, you may not be able to without
rooting the phone.

Yuck. I have a Blackberry Z10, and FB is just another application which
can easily be deleted.

A lot of the UK networks put FB, YouTube, Twitter and other "useful" apps
on, so they can't be removed.

That's one of the reasons I will only buy Nexus devices.
Pure Android, with nothing added.

In message , Scott M
writes
Bill wrote:
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
SWMBO has a HTC Wildfire, which is a lower end phone. Can't get rid
of Facebook or Youtube, or stop them running. Result is phone hasn't
got enough memory for updates, because of the weird way Android
seems to have minimum system memory, but acres of data memory.
I wish I could find a simple explanation of why Android works like
this. On tablets here, they are always running out of memory in spite
running every memory manager I can find and regularly going in,
stopping applications and removing data, and running Malwarebytes.

Data memory tends to be non-volatile and therefore slow to access.
Processor memory is volatile and quick but more expensive and power
hungry. So you get lots of storage but not much space to work in.

That's all very well, but doesn't explain why all the unused apps are
sitting in volatile memory when I would have expected them to just be
pulled in when wanted.

At the moment, at a quick glance, for example, Google Search seems to be
sitting on 38.39 megs after clearing data, other Google Play things seem
to be hogging memory. After a lot of housekeeping, I have 424 out of 512
megs used. It's very rare that all the apps that look to be updated get
updated because of lack of memory.

It just seems a funny way of working.
--
Bill

On 16/04/2014 21:17, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I leave GPS off ...

That setting in Power Management just controls whether apps are allowed
to use GPS, not whether it's on or off. So unless you're running a
SatNav app of some sort it doesn't make much difference.


--
Reentrant

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 09:40:53 +0100, Reentrant wrote:

On 16/04/2014 21:17, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I leave GPS off ...

That setting in Power Management just controls whether apps are allowed
to use GPS, not whether it's on or off. So unless you're running a
SatNav app of some sort it doesn't make much difference.

But if you let Google use location information (or a host of other apps,
hard to pin them all down), the GPS will still be used.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Thursday, April 17, 2014 8:58:06 AM UTC+1, Bill wrote:

That's all very well, but doesn't explain why all the unused apps are
sitting in volatile memory when I would have expected them to just be pulled
in when wanted.

'Unused' apps might well be sitting in volatile memory but that doesn't mean that the memory is not available for other apps - quite the opposite in fact.

When running multiple apps concurrently they all need a share of the available memory. Many apps, when not actually running in the foreground, can sit in the background in a state of sleep and need not place any burden on processor or memory resources. If such apps haven't modified their use of their portion of volatile memory then that memory can be safely reallocated elsewhere should a new app come along that needs it. The reason this memory isn't freed up as a matter of course is because you might want to switch to that background/sleeping app and hence performance would suffer if it had the memory blanked for no reason because it'd have to read it all back in again before you could switch.

When resources are running low only then will the memory manager go round and look at what apps are in least use and kick them out of memory. Apps running in the foreground, or actively running in the background (e.g. a satnav app that needs to keep running even if you're not actually viewing it but still need the voiced instructions), won't by definition by considered 'least used' and therefore won't be kicked out unless things get really bad and something has to give (or memory is swapped out to nvram).

After a lot of housekeeping, I have 424 out of 512 megs used.

Having volatile memory less than than 100% utilised is inefficient. Far better to keep that memory as full as possible e.g. with shared code and other frequently used data. Clearing memory out just for the sake of showing you've got loads of free space is wasteful if you end up having to subsequently read the same data back in from (slower) nvram because you've run the app again.

Mathew

On Thursday, April 17, 2014 10:03:44 AM UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:

But if you let Google use location information (or a host of other apps, hard
to pin them all down), the GPS will still be used.

Very rarely in my experience. Location information is available from network analysis and other sources - only if the accuracy is insufficient for the task in hand will Android switch to using GPS (and let you know of that fact with the status bar icon).

For example, a weather app will function quite happily with the approximate location provided by cell tower based location service whereas a satnav app will prefer a much higher level of accuracy and thus make a call to the GPS location service instead.

In message ,
Mathew Newton writes
Having volatile memory less than than 100% utilised is inefficient. Far
better to keep that memory as full as possible e.g. with shared code
and other frequently used data. Clearing memory out just for the sake
of showing you've got loads of free space is wasteful if you end up
having to subsequently read the same data back in from (slower) nvram
because you've run the app again.

Yes, I understand this, but what I find on my tablet (yes, I know the
thread is about smartphones) is that when I fire it up it finds a bunch
of updates and almost always at least one of these fails with "not
enough memory".

Similarly, I tried to install, for example, the excellent Martin Guitar
tuning app and it failed on the 512meg machine saying "insufficient
memory". It installed OK on the 1GHz machine and says it is using
21.46megs, which is less than many and less than the 52megs available
memory on the 512meg machine.
--
Bill

On Thursday, 17 April 2014 10:03:44 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:

But if you let Google use location information (or a host of other apps,
hard to pin them all down), the GPS will still be used.

I find FB in particular likes to turn on my GPS to know where I am so turning it off does help with the battery like, for me anyway.

On Wednesday, 16 April 2014 08:31:35 UTC+1, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.
Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.
For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.
Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?

Does you have Samsung Knox pre-installed on your phone? That sometimes like to go mad and eat up the battery. You can try installing a wakelock detector and Better Battery Stats (or similar) which might give you a clue what's going on.

On 16/04/2014 10:41, Huge wrote:
On 2014-04-16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:14:50 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2014-04-16, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:12:28 +0100, nemo wrote:

Restart the phone to clear the decks.

Yep, my Galaxy SIII mini started to lie about the status of data. No
Icon, settings dialog says it's off. But if you tried to turn it on you
still got no indication. Ignored it for a day then got an unexpected
low battery warning and guess what data icon was on and I hadn't even
touched the phone...

Disable non-essential apps from automatically syncing in the
background.
Turn wifi and GPS off, except when you actually need them.

And turn off data. Even if there is no traffic it still draws power to
keep the radio on.

And delete Facebook.

Depending on the version of Android, you may not be able to without
rooting the phone.

Yuck. I have a Blackberry Z10, and FB is just another application which can
easily be deleted.

Android would let you, but much depends on what your mobile operator has
decided to preload and "require" you to have...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/04/2014 13:14, Bill wrote:
In message ,
Mathew Newton writes
Having volatile memory less than than 100% utilised is inefficient.
Far better to keep that memory as full as possible e.g. with shared
code and other frequently used data. Clearing memory out just for the
sake of showing you've got loads of free space is wasteful if you end
up having to subsequently read the same data back in from (slower)
nvram because you've run the app again.

Yes, I understand this, but what I find on my tablet (yes, I know the
thread is about smartphones) is that when I fire it up it finds a bunch
of updates and almost always at least one of these fails with "not
enough memory".

That is usually because its trying to install them into the internal
memory rather than the flash (or SD card if you have one). Many apps
support being moved out of internal storage and into flash storage.

You can move installed apps from Settings-apps, then select and app and
hit the "move to SD" or similar option at the bottom of the summary screen.

There are a few large apps (Chrome for example) that insist on being
stored only in internal memory though.

You can also download a utility like App2SD that will let you bulk move
apps to SD and hence free lots of internal storage.


Similarly, I tried to install, for example, the excellent Martin Guitar
tuning app and it failed on the 512meg machine saying "insufficient
memory". It installed OK on the 1GHz machine and says it is using
21.46megs, which is less than many and less than the 52megs available
memory on the 512meg machine.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/04/2014 20:45, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/04/2014 10:41, Huge wrote:
On 2014-04-16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:14:50 +0000, Huge wrote:



Android would let you, but much depends on what your mobile operator has
decided to preload and "require" you to have...



It's also down to what deal the phone manufacturer have with the various
organisations. Even on a non-locked phone there are applications that
cannot be removed until the phone is rooted.

There may even some settings that cannot be changed without rooting a
phone, such as telling your GPS that you don't live in the USA.



--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On 16/04/2014 08:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?



Thanks to all. Turned off WiFi & Bluetooth yesterday AM and battery
still at 64% when I got home.

No idea how they suddenly got turned on, piggin smart phones have a mind
of their own!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , John
Rumm writes
You can also download a utility like App2SD that will let you bulk move
apps to SD and hence free lots of internal storage.

I have been doing this manually, but I just ran this app. It found 2
moveable apps, one of which was itself.
I now have 0 moveable, 20 on SD card, 10 unmoveable.

I've just tried the Martin tuner again, "Insufficient storage
available".

Does Android have any diagnostics to log what is happening? As I say,
it's not just this program, it's updates to other installed apps that
can't find enough space.
--
Bill

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:26:04 +0100, Bill wrote:

In message , John
Rumm writes
You can also download a utility like App2SD that will let you bulk move
apps to SD and hence free lots of internal storage.

I have been doing this manually, but I just ran this app. It found 2
moveable apps, one of which was itself.
I now have 0 moveable, 20 on SD card, 10 unmoveable.

I've just tried the Martin tuner again, "Insufficient storage
available".

Does Android have any diagnostics to log what is happening? As I say,
it's not just this program, it's updates to other installed apps that
can't find enough space.

More likely to be that the dedicated program 'memory' (persistent
storage) for actual apps has run out. That happened to me recently on my
S2; a rather large app just wouldn't install until I had actually
deinstalled some crud I didn't need any more.

That's when I bought a new phone...



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Thursday, 17 April 2014 13:14:38 UTC+1, Bill wrote:

Yes, I understand this, but what I find on my tablet (yes, I know the
thread is about smartphones) is that when I fire it up it finds a bunch
of updates and almost always at least one of these fails with "not
enough memory".

Bill, I think we might be talking at cross purposes here - perhaps as a result of me making an incorrect assumption.

When I use the term 'memory' I am referring to the volatile RAM used to store running processes and associated data. Failing app updates are more likely to be an issue of lack of *storage* space i.e. non-volatile RAM.

Are you sure the error message really is 'not enough *memory*'?

Assuming it is a storage issue it might be worth manually going through the file system with a file manager and finding data files that could be removed to free up some space e.g. downloads, music, video etc.

Mathew

On 18/04/2014 10:59, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 16/04/2014 08:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Said smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy Ace2.

Previously if I eft home with it 100% charged it would last all day,
maybe dropping to 40% charged by the time I got home.

For the past week its been dropping to 30% or less by around 3pm.

Something is clearly running in the background & using up battery power,
any idea what?



Thanks to all. Turned off WiFi & Bluetooth yesterday AM and battery
still at 64% when I got home.

No idea how they suddenly got turned on, piggin smart phones have a mind
of their own!



Sometimes it can just be a matter of how strong and consistent the
signal is where you a In my previous office at work, I would use
about 50% of my iPhone battery each day even without using the phone
significantly. I moved to a new location not very far away (1 floor
down and on the other side of the building) and now I use about 20% a
day, with no change in settings (essentially everything off except for
wifi).

In message ,
Mathew Newton writes
On Thursday, 17 April 2014 13:14:38 UTC+1, Bill wrote:

Yes, I understand this, but what I find on my tablet (yes, I know the
thread is about smartphones) is that when I fire it up it finds a bunch
of updates and almost always at least one of these fails with "not
enough memory".

Bill, I think we might be talking at cross purposes here - perhaps as a
result of me making an incorrect assumption.

When I use the term 'memory' I am referring to the volatile RAM used to
store running processes and associated data. Failing app updates are
more likely to be an issue of lack of *storage* space i.e. non-volatile
RAM.

Are you sure the error message really is 'not enough *memory*'?

Assuming it is a storage issue it might be worth manually going through
the file system with a file manager and finding data files that could
be removed to free up some space e.g. downloads, music, video etc.

Mathew
I'm really grateful for the interest in this. I'll stick with what
happens with the Martin Tuner, if I may.
It starts installing after downloading, but then almost immediately
there is a message "Error (in blue above a blue line). Insufficient
storage space available. OK"

I have installed and run App2SD, which presents itself as an icon called
AppManager. That didn't change anything.
In Developer Options, I've ticked "Don't Keep Activities" and "Show all
ANR's". Background process limit is set to Standard Limit.

Under Storage, it says
Total Space 504MB,
Apps(Data and Media Content) 369MB
Available 58.41MB

This doesn't seem to add up and is just moderately close to what ES Task
Manager says.
I assume this is the volatile ram?

Under NAND Flash it says Total space 5.78MB, then some details ending in
Available 5.56GB

Under SD Card
Total space 14.83GB
Available 14.83GB

There is no usb storage.

There are a few more Apps I could remove, or I could do a complete
reset.

I have the older tablet with 1GB ram and actually mostly use the
Blackberry Playbook (shame about them).
--
Bill