I've read more level headed and rational discussions of mobile devices
on this forum than in many of the dedicated ones.
At present I'm trying to help my daughter make some decisions about
the best way for her to communicate with us here while she's away in
Canada. To this end, I've been researching some of the current 'Smart'
devices available, with an emphasis on initial cost and economy of
regular use.

I get the impression that while iPhones, iPads, HTC Desire/Evo etc.
have a lot of interesting and sometimes half-baked features, much of
the functionality is skewed to pander to an enthusiastic 'fan' group
and simultaneously extract as much in the way of service charges as
possible from this clientele and any others who can be drawn into
their user-base.

Is this emphasis on glossy profit making features universal, or are
there some devices, maybe such as the Blackberry for instance, where
businesslike functionality is a reliable priority?

As a for instance, I recently bought a HTC Hero phone and while this
was a lot more expensive than our usual type of phone, bought from
Tesco's for under a hundred quid, this new phone can't be used to send
or receive MMS picture messages (it's a widely discussed problem). All
the cheap phones we've previously owned have no trouble doing this by
default when using a PAYG SIM.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Mike Halmarack wrote:

As a for instance, I recently bought a HTC Hero phone and while this
was a lot more expensive than our usual type of phone, bought from
Tesco's for under a hundred quid, this new phone can't be used to send
or receive MMS picture messages (it's a widely discussed problem). All
the cheap phones we've previously owned have no trouble doing this by
default when using a PAYG SIM.

The Hero should be getting the Android 2.1 upgrade in the next week or
so, I don't send [m]any MMS messages, preferring email, but I have
received them on my Nexus1, so the upgrade should give you MMS
functionality (unless it's an HTC/SenseUI issue).

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:01:23 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Mike Halmarack wrote:

As a for instance, I recently bought a HTC Hero phone and while this
was a lot more expensive than our usual type of phone, bought from
Tesco's for under a hundred quid, this new phone can't be used to send
or receive MMS picture messages (it's a widely discussed problem). All
the cheap phones we've previously owned have no trouble doing this by
default when using a PAYG SIM.

The Hero should be getting the Android 2.1 upgrade in the next week or
so, I don't send [m]any MMS messages, preferring email, but I have
received them on my Nexus1, so the upgrade should give you MMS
functionality (unless it's an HTC/SenseUI issue).

Thanks, I did see on the XDA-developer's site that a 2.1 upgrade was
coming but the clamour on that site over this and other aspects of the
phones functionality is a bit off putting in it's stridency.

I bought the Hero to check out it's capabilities, with a view to
handing it over to my daughter when it was set-up to cover her
foreseeable requirements. She's keen on MMS messaging and thinks I've
blown it big-time getting a phone which won't currently do this.
Maybe the 2.1 upgrade will be the answer. That would be a big plus.


--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
I've read more level headed and rational discussions of mobile devices
on this forum than in many of the dedicated ones.
At present I'm trying to help my daughter make some decisions about
the best way for her to communicate with us here while she's away in
Canada. To this end, I've been researching some of the current 'Smart'
devices available, with an emphasis on initial cost and economy of
regular use.

I've never been a fan of iPhones (I'll go Apple bashing any day) and until
recently, had the Nokia N95 8GB. However, due to the HTC Legend (and Desire)
coming with inbuilt FM tuners, coupled with a targetted 10% off voucher for
ebay, and some freak alignment of the planets, I finally decided to buy the
HTC Legend outright. Anyway, I love the Legend, but it's only on Vodafone in
the UK (I'm on 3), so I might as well say that the missus decided to go with
the HTC Desire instead, and is paying £22 per month over 24 months for
unlimited data (fair usage applies), and a decent calls/texts package.

Neither of us has used our data quota yet, despite quite heavy usage of the
phones. I can honestly say that the applications available are as much or as
little quirky as you want them to be. To be honest, I am stunned at the
amount of free, decent software out there. Julie now sits in the living room
browsing forums etc on the Desire, rather than firing up the laptop. The
phone operating system itself is smooth and responsive (on both Legend and
Desire), and can be clean looking, or cluttered with as many bells and
whistles as you want.

Most people I speak to say that they prefer the Desire, because it is bigger
and more powerful. I take their point, but I liked the slightly smaller
Legend. But a week ago, I was looking round some churches, and managed to
drop the Legend onto a stone church floor, from a height of perhaps 4 feet.
The damage was barely noticeable. Not sure how the Desire would have fared,
but the solid aluminium case of the Legend coped admirably. I don't propose
to perform this test again though, so I have now invested in a jelly case,
rather than the sock that I had originally.

Oh, and finally, I have received an MMS on my Legend (Android 2.1). Never
tried to send one though, but I presume it works.

I just checked 3's site however, and they now seem to offer the Desire on a
minimum £30 per month contract.

JW

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:01:23 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Mike Halmarack wrote:

As a for instance, I recently bought a HTC Hero phone and while this
was a lot more expensive than our usual type of phone, bought from
Tesco's for under a hundred quid, this new phone can't be used to send
or receive MMS picture messages (it's a widely discussed problem). All
the cheap phones we've previously owned have no trouble doing this by
default when using a PAYG SIM.

The Hero should be getting the Android 2.1 upgrade in the next week or
so, I don't send [m]any MMS messages, preferring email, but I have
received them on my Nexus1, so the upgrade should give you MMS
functionality (unless it's an HTC/SenseUI issue).

Thanks, I did see on the XDA-developer's site that a 2.1 upgrade was
coming but the clamour on that site over this and other aspects of the
phones functionality is a bit off putting in it's stridency.

I bought the Hero to check out it's capabilities, with a view to
handing it over to my daughter when it was set-up to cover her
foreseeable requirements. She's keen on MMS messaging and thinks I've
blown it big-time getting a phone which won't currently do this.
Maybe the 2.1 upgrade will be the answer. That would be a big plus.

To be honest, at the rate the operators charge for MMS messaging, I'd say
that is a far bigger revenue extraction tool than the many applications on
smart phones - well, at least for an individual who wants to send pictures.
As someone said (I think), attachments to emails are free, as long as you
keep an eye on your downloads for the month (and yes, there's an Android app
to do that - free!) ;-)

JW

On 19/06/2010 11:57, Mike Halmarack wrote:

I get the impression that while iPhones, iPads, HTC Desire/Evo etc.
have a lot of interesting and sometimes half-baked features, much of
the functionality is skewed to pander to an enthusiastic 'fan' group
and simultaneously extract as much in the way of service charges as
possible from this clientele and any others who can be drawn into
their user-base.

To escape this, consider use of non-PDA phones.

There are loads that can handle MMS, take usable pictures and email -
and more importantly make reliable phone calls, have a useable battery
life, small case, not a magnet to thieves etc...

I got quite a lot out of my Sony-Erricsion K750i.

Reliable and cheap as chips now.

--
Adrian C

Mike Halmarack
wibbled on Saturday 19 June 2010 11:57

I've read more level headed and rational discussions of mobile devices
on this forum than in many of the dedicated ones.
At present I'm trying to help my daughter make some decisions about
the best way for her to communicate with us here while she's away in
Canada. To this end, I've been researching some of the current 'Smart'
devices available, with an emphasis on initial cost and economy of
regular use.

I get the impression that while iPhones, iPads, HTC Desire/Evo etc.
have a lot of interesting and sometimes half-baked features, much of
the functionality is skewed to pander to an enthusiastic 'fan' group
and simultaneously extract as much in the way of service charges as
possible from this clientele and any others who can be drawn into
their user-base.

Is this emphasis on glossy profit making features universal, or are
there some devices, maybe such as the Blackberry for instance, where
businesslike functionality is a reliable priority?

As a for instance, I recently bought a HTC Hero phone and while this
was a lot more expensive than our usual type of phone, bought from
Tesco's for under a hundred quid, this new phone can't be used to send
or receive MMS picture messages (it's a widely discussed problem). All
the cheap phones we've previously owned have no trouble doing this by
default when using a PAYG SIM.

And iPhone allows a VoIP client - SWMBO just tried on (FooCall) to call
China on the cheap over our local WIFI (probably won't work over 3G).


All in, the iPhone seemed to have better Apps compared with Android -
especially all those little shopping and lifestyle Apps like Waitrose,
Argos, RBS banking and stuff. Loads of other useful apps like rail running
info/timetables etc - but it's pretty likely that class is also available on
Android.

It's a user advantage (I find) to have one single repository of installable
apps.

However, it does stifle the ability to knock up your own apps or use
something Apple doesn't approve of. Though I program computers, a phone i
one bit of computer equipment I relegate to "tool" status and just want it
to work.

O2 have a major discount on recon 3G iPhones ("free" with 25/month for 2
years for 100 mins/month and data) - but that's no good for her as she's
going to Canada.

One option would be to see what the carrier/iPhone offerings are like over
there and maybe buy it there.


If that's not going to be any good, I'd default to Android next and maybe
look at the HTCs. I'd never touch another Nokia but I would consider a
Motorola again - and some of those are open platform.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

Tim Watts wrote:

iPhone allows a VoIP client

You're on thin ice talking about what iPhone "allows" compared to
Android ;-)

There is SIPdroid on Android, I use it to talk to our Asterisk server,
it works fine over WiFi, I've tested it on 3G too, it does require a
decent 3G signal and breaks O2's T&C.

All in, the iPhone seemed to have better Apps compared with Android -
especially all those little shopping and lifestyle Apps like Waitrose,
Argos, RBS banking and stuff. Loads of other useful apps like rail running
info/timetables etc - but it's pretty likely that class is also available on
Android.

I don't go a bundle on having apps that just duplicate content that's
available on a website anyway.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:52:35 +0100, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:01:23 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Mike Halmarack wrote:

As a for instance, I recently bought a HTC Hero phone and while this
was a lot more expensive than our usual type of phone, bought from
Tesco's for under a hundred quid, this new phone can't be used to send
or receive MMS picture messages (it's a widely discussed problem). All
the cheap phones we've previously owned have no trouble doing this by
default when using a PAYG SIM.

The Hero should be getting the Android 2.1 upgrade in the next week or
so, I don't send [m]any MMS messages, preferring email, but I have
received them on my Nexus1, so the upgrade should give you MMS
functionality (unless it's an HTC/SenseUI issue).

Thanks, I did see on the XDA-developer's site that a 2.1 upgrade was
coming but the clamour on that site over this and other aspects of the
phones functionality is a bit off putting in it's stridency.

I bought the Hero to check out it's capabilities, with a view to
handing it over to my daughter when it was set-up to cover her
foreseeable requirements. She's keen on MMS messaging and thinks I've
blown it big-time getting a phone which won't currently do this.
Maybe the 2.1 upgrade will be the answer. That would be a big plus.

To be honest, at the rate the operators charge for MMS messaging, I'd say
that is a far bigger revenue extraction tool than the many applications on
smart phones - well, at least for an individual who wants to send pictures.
As someone said (I think), attachments to emails are free, as long as you
keep an eye on your downloads for the month (and yes, there's an Android app
to do that - free!) ;-)

JW

I agree with you there. I'd go for email in preference to MMS every
time. My daughter isn't so keen though as it excludes access to her
friends without email on their phones.

There's also the matter of her being determined to stick with a PAYG
SIM as perhaps absent mindedly tripping into mobile data international
roaming charges and the subsequent bills are quite a deterrent to her.

As for MMS service charges I'm still working on the basis that this
service is available via both mobile data and WiFi, with WiFi being
the preferential mode in terms of cost. Currently I can't get the
phone to do either, so it's all theoretical just now.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:46:42 +0100, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
.. .
I've read more level headed and rational discussions of mobile devices
on this forum than in many of the dedicated ones.
At present I'm trying to help my daughter make some decisions about
the best way for her to communicate with us here while she's away in
Canada. To this end, I've been researching some of the current 'Smart'
devices available, with an emphasis on initial cost and economy of
regular use.

I've never been a fan of iPhones (I'll go Apple bashing any day) and until
recently, had the Nokia N95 8GB. However, due to the HTC Legend (and Desire)
coming with inbuilt FM tuners, coupled with a targetted 10% off voucher for
ebay, and some freak alignment of the planets, I finally decided to buy the
HTC Legend outright. Anyway, I love the Legend, but it's only on Vodafone in
the UK (I'm on 3), so I might as well say that the missus decided to go with
the HTC Desire instead, and is paying £22 per month over 24 months for
unlimited data (fair usage applies), and a decent calls/texts package.

I'm mulling over whether to step up to the HTC Desire or even the Evo
4G (maybe more appropriate for Canada). It would be reassuring to know
that the MMS problems would be overcome as a result.

Neither of us has used our data quota yet, despite quite heavy usage of the
phones. I can honestly say that the applications available are as much or as
little quirky as you want them to be. To be honest, I am stunned at the
amount of free, decent software out there. Julie now sits in the living room
browsing forums etc on the Desire, rather than firing up the laptop. The
phone operating system itself is smooth and responsive (on both Legend and
Desire), and can be clean looking, or cluttered with as many bells and
whistles as you want.

You make it sound most attractive. I'm more than happy to go along
with the idea of PAYG though, to avoid unforseen extra charges.
My own main motivation for getting into considering this kind of
device was in the expectation that it could be easily used with Skype.
This is not a particularly clear area for plain sailing either.
Something about a clash of interests between the phone makers and the
service provider I read recently.

Most people I speak to say that they prefer the Desire, because it is bigger
and more powerful. I take their point, but I liked the slightly smaller
Legend. But a week ago, I was looking round some churches, and managed to
drop the Legend onto a stone church floor, from a height of perhaps 4 feet.
The damage was barely noticeable. Not sure how the Desire would have fared,
but the solid aluminium case of the Legend coped admirably. I don't propose
to perform this test again though, so I have now invested in a jelly case,
rather than the sock that I had originally.

This Hero is jelly cased and lanyarded now, after I dropped it on the
rug beneath my workstation, just as I was advising my daughter not to
be clumsy with it.

Oh, and finally, I have received an MMS on my Legend (Android 2.1). Never
tried to send one though, but I presume it works.

I just checked 3's site however, and they now seem to offer the Desire on a
minimum £30 per month contract.

Many of the contracts on offer may be good value. I don't have much
experience of them personally. For my own use I have an very old Nokia
which just does phone and text. I pay about a 3.5 GBP a month to keep
its 02 PAYG SIM card functioning steadily.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:53:59 +0100, Adrian C
wrote:

On 19/06/2010 11:57, Mike Halmarack wrote:

I get the impression that while iPhones, iPads, HTC Desire/Evo etc.
have a lot of interesting and sometimes half-baked features, much of
the functionality is skewed to pander to an enthusiastic 'fan' group
and simultaneously extract as much in the way of service charges as
possible from this clientele and any others who can be drawn into
their user-base.

To escape this, consider use of non-PDA phones.

There are loads that can handle MMS, take usable pictures and email -
and more importantly make reliable phone calls, have a useable battery
life, small case, not a magnet to thieves etc...

I got quite a lot out of my Sony-Erricsion K750i.

Reliable and cheap as chips now.

My wife has one and they're fine. As you point out MMS works perfectly
on these, as it does on my daughter's old phone. It's just the more
expensive smart phone we've chosen that seems to be having trouble
with MMS.

I hope to get the K750i as a hand me down before too many more years
pass by. It's not just that I'm stingy. I really do believe in being
no higher tech than absolutely necessary.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:52:32 -0700 (PDT), Owain
wrote:

On 19 June, 11:57, Mike Halmarack wrote:
Is this emphasis on glossy profit making features universal, or are
there some devices, maybe such as the Blackberry for instance, where
businesslike functionality is a reliable priority?

I had a little play with a Blackberry yesterday. The screen is really
too small for web browsing, but I think sites optimised for small
screens might be usable. Keyboard is too small for finger typing but
too wide for holding in one hand and thumb typing.

Not a perfect solution then.

Does it have to be phone based? A netbook using wifi, or a dongle,
might be rather more useful, though obviously not as easy to carry
round and just start talking/texting like a phone.

That would be my personal choice were I going off on my travels, if
only for the relative quality and reliability of the software.

How long will daughter be in Canada,

A year is the current estimate. She may have even less reason to rush
back to the UK by that time. Not that I necessarily believe all the
media hype about where we're heading economically.

will she have Ethernet/wifi
access where she stays, and does she need to do other things eg web
browsing, email, viewing/editing documents, backing up digital camera
photos etc?

I'm counting on her regular access to WiFi for many of the reasons you
mention. This was initially envisioned to be mainly for Skype purposes
though. If I wasn't currently trying to overcome the MMS quirks I'd
have moved on to the Skype conundrums by now.

Owain

--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:07:35 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Mike Halmarack
wibbled on Saturday 19 June 2010 11:57

I've read more level headed and rational discussions of mobile devices
on this forum than in many of the dedicated ones.
At present I'm trying to help my daughter make some decisions about
the best way for her to communicate with us here while she's away in
Canada. To this end, I've been researching some of the current 'Smart'
devices available, with an emphasis on initial cost and economy of
regular use.

I get the impression that while iPhones, iPads, HTC Desire/Evo etc.
have a lot of interesting and sometimes half-baked features, much of
the functionality is skewed to pander to an enthusiastic 'fan' group
and simultaneously extract as much in the way of service charges as
possible from this clientele and any others who can be drawn into
their user-base.

Is this emphasis on glossy profit making features universal, or are
there some devices, maybe such as the Blackberry for instance, where
businesslike functionality is a reliable priority?

As a for instance, I recently bought a HTC Hero phone and while this
was a lot more expensive than our usual type of phone, bought from
Tesco's for under a hundred quid, this new phone can't be used to send
or receive MMS picture messages (it's a widely discussed problem). All
the cheap phones we've previously owned have no trouble doing this by
default when using a PAYG SIM.

And iPhone allows a VoIP client - SWMBO just tried on (FooCall) to call
China on the cheap over our local WIFI (probably won't work over 3G).


All in, the iPhone seemed to have better Apps compared with Android -
especially all those little shopping and lifestyle Apps like Waitrose,
Argos, RBS banking and stuff. Loads of other useful apps like rail running
info/timetables etc - but it's pretty likely that class is also available on
Android.

It's a user advantage (I find) to have one single repository of installable
apps.

However, it does stifle the ability to knock up your own apps or use
something Apple doesn't approve of. Though I program computers, a phone i
one bit of computer equipment I relegate to "tool" status and just want it
to work.

O2 have a major discount on recon 3G iPhones ("free" with 25/month for 2
years for 100 mins/month and data) - but that's no good for her as she's
going to Canada.

One option would be to see what the carrier/iPhone offerings are like over
there and maybe buy it there.


If that's not going to be any good, I'd default to Android next and maybe
look at the HTCs. I'd never touch another Nokia but I would consider a
Motorola again - and some of those are open platform.

There is a lot to be said for the iPhone and you say it very well.
There is definitely a cost associated with a reluctance to go with the
main herd and I'm beginning to realise what that cost is.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:16:38 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

iPhone allows a VoIP client

You're on thin ice talking about what iPhone "allows" compared to
Android ;-)

There is SIPdroid on Android, I use it to talk to our Asterisk server,

Is that "talk to" as in "speak with"? If so, I must look into that
possibility.

it works fine over WiFi, I've tested it on 3G too, it does require a
decent 3G signal and breaks O2's T&C.

All in, the iPhone seemed to have better Apps compared with Android -
especially all those little shopping and lifestyle Apps like Waitrose,
Argos, RBS banking and stuff. Loads of other useful apps like rail running
info/timetables etc - but it's pretty likely that class is also available on
Android.

I don't go a bundle on having apps that just duplicate content that's
available on a website anyway.

--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Mike Halmarack wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:16:38 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

There is SIPdroid on Android

Is that "talk to" as in "speak with"? If so, I must look into that
possibility.

It uses standard SIP/RTP protocols (I won't touch skype) I use it with
Asterisk as our inbound calls already arrive there so it saves paying
for diverts to mobiles if the mobile can receive it directly as VoIP.

But you don't need to run your own VoIP server, any off-the-shelf SIP
provider will be fine (it comes preconfigured for PBXes.com)

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 15:58:59 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Mike Halmarack wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:16:38 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

There is SIPdroid on Android

Is that "talk to" as in "speak with"? If so, I must look into that
possibility.

It uses standard SIP/RTP protocols (I won't touch skype) I use it with
Asterisk as our inbound calls already arrive there so it saves paying
for diverts to mobiles if the mobile can receive it directly as VoIP.

But you don't need to run your own VoIP server, any off-the-shelf SIP
provider will be fine (it comes preconfigured for PBXes.com)

OK, thanks, it looks like I've got some reading to do.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Andy Burns
wibbled on Saturday 19 June 2010 14:16

Tim Watts wrote:

iPhone allows a VoIP client

You're on thin ice talking about what iPhone "allows" compared to
Android ;-)

The choice of the word "allow" was quite careful - I know what Apple are
like! ;-O

There is SIPdroid on Android, I use it to talk to our Asterisk server,
it works fine over WiFi, I've tested it on 3G too, it does require a
decent 3G signal and breaks O2's T&C.

Everything breaks O2's T&Cs - it's more relevant whether they have a
technological way to catch you.

All in, the iPhone seemed to have better Apps compared with Android -
especially all those little shopping and lifestyle Apps like Waitrose,
Argos, RBS banking and stuff. Loads of other useful apps like rail
running info/timetables etc - but it's pretty likely that class is also
available on Android.

I don't go a bundle on having apps that just duplicate content that's
available on a website anyway.

I do. Unless the site has an optimised subsite for mobiles, it's impossible
navigating a shopping site at 300-400 odd pixels, especially on GPRS.
Whereas an app makes it reasonably pleasant. Nothing wrong with Safari, but
if the site is written for 800+ pixels and full of graphics it becomes very
tedious.

RS have a mobile optimised site, but it's the only one I've come across yet.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

Tim Watts wrote:

RS have a mobile optimised site, but it's the only one I've come across yet.

Since you mentioned train timetables, Network Rail's site seems to be
mobile optimised ... agreed that sites which expect 1280x1024 screen can
be painful with 480x800 cheapdiglet alone 320x480/cheapdig

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:52:35 +0100, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:01:23 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Mike Halmarack wrote:

As a for instance, I recently bought a HTC Hero phone and while this
was a lot more expensive than our usual type of phone, bought from
Tesco's for under a hundred quid, this new phone can't be used to send
or receive MMS picture messages (it's a widely discussed problem). All
the cheap phones we've previously owned have no trouble doing this by
default when using a PAYG SIM.

The Hero should be getting the Android 2.1 upgrade in the next week or
so, I don't send [m]any MMS messages, preferring email, but I have
received them on my Nexus1, so the upgrade should give you MMS
functionality (unless it's an HTC/SenseUI issue).

Thanks, I did see on the XDA-developer's site that a 2.1 upgrade was
coming but the clamour on that site over this and other aspects of the
phones functionality is a bit off putting in it's stridency.

I bought the Hero to check out it's capabilities, with a view to
handing it over to my daughter when it was set-up to cover her
foreseeable requirements. She's keen on MMS messaging and thinks I've
blown it big-time getting a phone which won't currently do this.
Maybe the 2.1 upgrade will be the answer. That would be a big plus.

To be honest, at the rate the operators charge for MMS messaging, I'd say
that is a far bigger revenue extraction tool than the many applications on
smart phones - well, at least for an individual who wants to send
pictures.
As someone said (I think), attachments to emails are free, as long as you
keep an eye on your downloads for the month (and yes, there's an Android
app
to do that - free!) ;-)

JW

I agree with you there. I'd go for email in preference to MMS every
time. My daughter isn't so keen though as it excludes access to her
friends without email on their phones.

There's also the matter of her being determined to stick with a PAYG
SIM as perhaps absent mindedly tripping into mobile data international
roaming charges and the subsequent bills are quite a deterrent to her.

As for MMS service charges I'm still working on the basis that this
service is available via both mobile data and WiFi, with WiFi being
the preferential mode in terms of cost. Currently I can't get the
phone to do either, so it's all theoretical just now.

Oh, OK - must admit, I'd no idea you could send MMS via WiFi.

JW

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:52:32 -0700 (PDT), Owain
wrote:

On 19 June, 11:57, Mike Halmarack wrote:
Is this emphasis on glossy profit making features universal, or are
there some devices, maybe such as the Blackberry for instance, where
businesslike functionality is a reliable priority?

I had a little play with a Blackberry yesterday. The screen is really
too small for web browsing, but I think sites optimised for small
screens might be usable. Keyboard is too small for finger typing but
too wide for holding in one hand and thumb typing.

Not a perfect solution then.


I use a BB for work. I've found the browser quite frustrating - though
admittedly that may be something to do with it being cached through work's
server.

BBs are designed, in my opinion, for double thumb typing. You can go pretty
fast on them once you get used to it.

JW

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:07:35 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:


There is a lot to be said for the iPhone and you say it very well.
There is definitely a cost associated with a reluctance to go with the
main herd and I'm beginning to realise what that cost is.

In this month's (August) PC Pro, they say that iPhone packages (i.e. monthly
cost) tend to cost more than Android packages, and much of that extra is a
subsidy to Apple. They explain further that the new mini-SIM ensures you
can't just get an iPhone, and stick any old SIM in it. Not sure on the truth
of that really.

John Whitworth wrote:

In this month's (August) PC Pro, they say that iPhone packages (i.e. monthly
cost) tend to cost more than Android packages, and much of that extra is a
subsidy to Apple. They explain further that the new mini-SIM ensures you
can't just get an iPhone, and stick any old SIM in it. Not sure on the truth
of that really.

Do they also explain that the Android is waste of components? Because it
is.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 18:27:37 +0100, "John Whitworth"
wrote:


As for MMS service charges I'm still working on the basis that this
service is available via both mobile data and WiFi, with WiFi being
the preferential mode in terms of cost. Currently I can't get the
phone to do either, so it's all theoretical just now.

Oh, OK - must admit, I'd no idea you could send MMS via WiFi.

I'm not sure you can. I've only read a number of threads where people
also think they should be able to ... but can't.

--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 18:31:41 +0100, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:52:32 -0700 (PDT), Owain
wrote:

On 19 June, 11:57, Mike Halmarack wrote:
Is this emphasis on glossy profit making features universal, or are
there some devices, maybe such as the Blackberry for instance, where
businesslike functionality is a reliable priority?

I had a little play with a Blackberry yesterday. The screen is really
too small for web browsing, but I think sites optimised for small
screens might be usable. Keyboard is too small for finger typing but
too wide for holding in one hand and thumb typing.

Not a perfect solution then.


I use a BB for work. I've found the browser quite frustrating - though
admittedly that may be something to do with it being cached through work's
server.

BBs are designed, in my opinion, for double thumb typing. You can go pretty
fast on them once you get used to it.

JW

My typing is pretty much equally in need of improvement no matter what
the input method. It's mainly that I had the impression that there was
less hype and more business level functionality with the Blackberry.
Perhaps that's just the effect of their marketing expertise.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 18:35:46 +0100, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:07:35 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:


There is a lot to be said for the iPhone and you say it very well.
There is definitely a cost associated with a reluctance to go with the
main herd and I'm beginning to realise what that cost is.

In this month's (August) PC Pro, they say that iPhone packages (i.e. monthly
cost) tend to cost more than Android packages, and much of that extra is a
subsidy to Apple. They explain further that the new mini-SIM ensures you
can't just get an iPhone, and stick any old SIM in it. Not sure on the truth
of that really.

Sounds about right to me. My impression is that the only thing going
for the iPhone is that it mostly does what it claims to be able to do,
which could be quite helpful, if true.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:09:41 -0700 (PDT), Owain
wrote:

On 19 June, 15:24, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I had a little play with a Blackberry yesterday. The screen is really
too small for web browsing, but I think sites optimised for small
screens might be usable. Keyboard is too small for finger typing but
too wide for holding in one hand and thumb typing.
Not a perfect solution then.

Although external bluetooth keyboards are available for not too many
pennies - rather pointless though.

Yes, probably a mini-burden in a "traveling light" situation.

Does it have to be phone based? ...
How long will daughter be in Canada,
A year is the current estimate.

Maybe some form of PC replacement is more worth considering then.

I agree, though I can understand my daughter's wish for that PC
replacement to be a smartphone if at all possible.

I understand that the cheap PAYG on mobile phones we're accustomed to
in the UK does not happen in Canada, so I don't know what sort of data
packages are available.

Yes, you're right, on checking I see that UK style PAYG is thin on
the ground in Canada.
There are some pre-pay services as far as I can tell.
Maybe this Rogers range for instance:
https://your.rogers.com/promo/wirele...uide_topup.asp

If her calls home can be made using VOIP through WiFi, this
combination may work out quite well.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
John Whitworth wrote:

In this month's (August) PC Pro, they say that iPhone packages (i.e.
monthly
cost) tend to cost more than Android packages, and much of that extra is
a
subsidy to Apple. They explain further that the new mini-SIM ensures you
can't just get an iPhone, and stick any old SIM in it. Not sure on the
truth
of that really.

Do they also explain that the Android is waste of components? Because it
is.

Not sure I understand your comment. If it really is waste, then Android is a
beautiful way to recycle it.

I'm sure, however, that you dislike Android. Would be helpful for the OP if
you could expand a little, with your reasons.

Cheers

JW

John Whitworth wrote:

I'm sure, however, that you dislike Android. Would be helpful for the OP if
you could expand a little, with your reasons.

In the same way that you expanded on your hatred of the iPhone you mean?

On 20 June, 10:04, (Steve Firth) wrote:
John Whitworth wrote:
I'm sure, however, that you dislike Android. Would be helpful for the OP if
you could expand a little, with your reasons.

In the same way that you expanded on your hatred of the iPhone you mean?

Oh dear

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:09:41 -0700 (PDT), Owain
wrote:

On 19 June, 15:24, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I had a little play with a Blackberry yesterday. The screen is really
too small for web browsing, but I think sites optimised for small
screens might be usable. Keyboard is too small for finger typing but
too wide for holding in one hand and thumb typing.
Not a perfect solution then.

Although external bluetooth keyboards are available for not too many
pennies - rather pointless though.

Yes, probably a mini-burden in a "traveling light" situation.

Does it have to be phone based? ...
How long will daughter be in Canada,
A year is the current estimate.

Maybe some form of PC replacement is more worth considering then.

I agree, though I can understand my daughter's wish for that PC
replacement to be a smartphone if at all possible.

I understand that the cheap PAYG on mobile phones we're accustomed to
in the UK does not happen in Canada, so I don't know what sort of data
packages are available.

Yes, you're right, on checking I see that UK style PAYG is thin on
the ground in Canada.
There are some pre-pay services as far as I can tell.
Maybe this Rogers range for instance:
https://your.rogers.com/promo/wirele...uide_topup.asp

If her calls home can be made using VOIP through WiFi, this
combination may work out quite well.


My daughter is in Canada (Montreal) at the moment and her general Internet
and mobile access seems to have taken a major backward step from South
America where Internet cafes were cheap as chips and she was always on
Facebook and Skype.

The mobile phone networks seem to follow the US model of charging for
receiving calls and texts and her two hosts over there don't seem to have
much in the way of fast Internet access.

I have emailed her for more details.

So probably best to work out what services are affordable in Canada - if
mobiles charges are way expensive and the WiFi infrastructure and general
Broadband is poor then it may be a waste of time investigating the latest
high functionality smart phones.

If you can't afford to run the apps then there is not much point in having
them :-)

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

Anita Palley wrote:

On 20 June, 10:04, (Steve Firth) wrote:
John Whitworth wrote:
I'm sure, however, that you dislike Android. Would be helpful for the
OP if you could expand a little, with your reasons.

In the same way that you expanded on your hatred of the iPhone you mean?

Oh dear

sigh

Mr Whitworth made this observation: "I've never been a fan of iPhones
(I'll go Apple bashing any day)"

It therefore seems hypocritical in the extreme that he shoudl then
demand that others justify in (presumably technical) detail why they
dislike particular technologies.

Your response seems to show a particular lack of observation of what has
been said in the thread or a particular mindset, which is it? I note for
example that you didn't post "oh dear" in response to his vacuous
offering.

If Mr Whitworth turns his Android Fanboi Apple Sukz!! attitude into
something that has substance I'll do the same for the Android.

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:09:50 +0100, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:


I understand that the cheap PAYG on mobile phones we're accustomed to
in the UK does not happen in Canada, so I don't know what sort of data
packages are available.

Yes, you're right, on checking I see that UK style PAYG is thin on
the ground in Canada.
There are some pre-pay services as far as I can tell.
Maybe this Rogers range for instance:
https://your.rogers.com/promo/wirele...uide_topup.asp

If her calls home can be made using VOIP through WiFi, this
combination may work out quite well.


My daughter is in Canada (Montreal) at the moment and her general Internet
and mobile access seems to have taken a major backward step from South
America where Internet cafes were cheap as chips and she was always on
Facebook and Skype.

The mobile phone networks seem to follow the US model of charging for
receiving calls and texts and her two hosts over there don't seem to have
much in the way of fast Internet access.

I have emailed her for more details.

I'd appreciate hearing about the response to that.

So probably best to work out what services are affordable in Canada - if
mobiles charges are way expensive and the WiFi infrastructure and general
Broadband is poor then it may be a waste of time investigating the latest
high functionality smart phones.

If you can't afford to run the apps then there is not much point in having
them :-)

As is often the case with computers and their software, though maybe a
little less so, there are various paths that can be followed which
either increase or decrease the cost of use.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

I think you want a cheap local phone and a netbook.

But the Dell mini 10v seems to be stopped.

http://euro.dell.com/uk/en/home/Lapt...s=ukdhs1&s=dhs

is similar.


Mike Halmarack wrote:
I've read more level headed and rational discussions of mobile devices
on this forum than in many of the dedicated ones.
At present I'm trying to help my daughter make some decisions about
the best way for her to communicate with us here while she's away in
Canada. To this end, I've been researching some of the current 'Smart'
devices available, with an emphasis on initial cost and economy of
regular use.

I get the impression that while iPhones, iPads, HTC Desire/Evo etc.
have a lot of interesting and sometimes half-baked features, much of
the functionality is skewed to pander to an enthusiastic 'fan' group
and simultaneously extract as much in the way of service charges as
possible from this clientele and any others who can be drawn into
their user-base.

Is this emphasis on glossy profit making features universal, or are
there some devices, maybe such as the Blackberry for instance, where
businesslike functionality is a reliable priority?

As a for instance, I recently bought a HTC Hero phone and while this
was a lot more expensive than our usual type of phone, bought from
Tesco's for under a hundred quid, this new phone can't be used to send
or receive MMS picture messages (it's a widely discussed problem). All
the cheap phones we've previously owned have no trouble doing this by
default when using a PAYG SIM.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 11:57:29 +0100, Mike Halmarack
wrote:

I've read more level headed and rational discussions of mobile devices
on this forum than in many of the dedicated ones.
At present I'm trying to help my daughter make some decisions about
the best way for her to communicate with us here while she's away in
Canada. To this end, I've been researching some of the current 'Smart'
devices available, with an emphasis on initial cost and economy of
regular use.

Give in and get her an iPhone. It's what she really wants, it's what
all her friends have.

This advice should not be taken as negating my contempt for all things
Apple and their iMarketing technique. But, hell, it's your daughter.
Be nice!

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:11:10 +0100, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:

I think you want a cheap local phone and a netbook.

But the Dell mini 10v seems to be stopped.

http://euro.dell.com/uk/en/home/Lapt...s=ukdhs1&s=dhs

is similar.

This would be a good choice. I'm going to suggest it.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Anita Palley wrote:

On 20 June, 10:04, (Steve Firth) wrote:
John Whitworth wrote:
I'm sure, however, that you dislike Android. Would be helpful for the
OP if you could expand a little, with your reasons.

In the same way that you expanded on your hatred of the iPhone you
mean?

Oh dear

sigh

Mr Whitworth made this observation: "I've never been a fan of iPhones
(I'll go Apple bashing any day)"

It therefore seems hypocritical in the extreme that he shoudl then
demand that others justify in (presumably technical) detail why they
dislike particular technologies.

Your response seems to show a particular lack of observation of what has
been said in the thread or a particular mindset, which is it? I note for
example that you didn't post "oh dear" in response to his vacuous
offering.

If Mr Whitworth turns his Android Fanboi Apple Sukz!! attitude into
something that has substance I'll do the same for the Android.

OK...fair enough. I touched a nerve - sorry. Here is my dislike for Apple,
bulletpointed:

- proprietary, locked down.
- no Flash.
- appearance over functionality (admittedly more Mac than iPhone)
- forcefeeding of software to 'support' the devices (i.e. iTunes)
- Apple fanboys, like the numpty who overheard me talking to a friend about
MP3 players in a supermarket queue, who then turned round, interrupted, and
started telling me that I needed an iPod, 'cos it was so ... ooh ...
incredible.

All of those could be described as advantages, perhaps, but not to me - I
prefer an open architecture.

Your turn.

JW

John Whitworth wrote:

OK...fair enough. I touched a nerve - sorry. Here is my dislike for Apple,
bulletpointed:

- proprietary, locked down.

As is almost every (succesful) phone on the market. Open source hasn't
produced such great things in life. Yes I like some Linux distros,
particularly Ubuntu server, but those Linux distributions that are the
best are those that have adopted a more or less proprieatary approach to
the release of software (Ubuntu, Red Hat, and shudder SuSE).

- no Flash.

Flash is an abomination. No flash is actually one reason that I would
buy an iPhone.

- appearance over functionality (admittedly more Mac than iPhone)

That's simply name calling and untrue.

- forcefeeding of software to 'support' the devices (i.e. iTunes)

Every phone needs something at the other end of the link. iTunes is IMO
a better endpoint that Samsung PC Studio or that forgettabel crap that
Nokia use. I've heard the same about the iPod and I've seen the hideous
inconsistent mess that users make when they load music onto their device
without something like iTunes to organise it. I prefer to have a package
that helps me to manage the crap on my iPod and would like something
similar for my phone.

- Apple fanboys, like the numpty who overheard me talking to a friend about
MP3 players in a supermarket queue, who then turned round, interrupted, and
started telling me that I needed an iPod, 'cos it was so ... ooh ...
incredible.

They like the product - a lot. If you think they're anal try talking to
a Porsche owner or a TVR owner. Or (god help you) anyone with an Acorn
Risc heap of crap.

All of those could be described as advantages, perhaps, but not to me - I
prefer an open architecture.

Your turn.

Well let me see:

1. Every Android phone is a brick with a poor quality display.
2. Androids with a keyboard have a lousy keyboard.
3. Androids with touchscreen are unresponsive and there's a noticeable
delay between touch and response.
4. The processors are sloooooooooow.
5. The designs are dreadful, the sort of tat knocked out by engineers
who think they know best.
6. The interfaces are poorly designed and inconsistent. Each maker
(makers like Motorola. HTC and Samsung none of whom understand
interface) creates their own "look and feel".
7. Like Linux it feels like something dreamed up by a kid in his
bedroom and the kid hasn't got around to finishing it yet.
8. Not one Android has the "pick it up, yes I know how this works" feel
of the iPhone.
9. Where are the apps?
10. If you think Apple is the Great Satan you really haven't thought
about Google. At least so far Apple haven't tried to photograph my
bare arse in my garden or record the details of my WiFi including
data traffic and passwords.
11. If you think Apple fanbois are bad, you haven't met a Google/Android
fanboi. At least Apple fanbois look as if they get laid from time to
time and can find a bar of soap without detailed instructions in
hexadecimal.
12. Flash on Android? Sometimes and perhaps if you chose the right
handset and then you get to deal with a slow pile of dross running
emulated code, on a slow processor.
13. Life with an Android is letting yourself in for a future of geekery
just to get a bloody phone working. Life's too short.
14. It takes a particular type of talent to come up with something worse
than a Sony Ericcson phone, and HTC etc have managed to do exactly\
that.

I'm sure I could go on for days about Android, face it though it's
unfortunately here today very definitely not here tomorrow crap. Even
Google are bailing out on their own product.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
John Whitworth wrote:

OK...fair enough. I touched a nerve - sorry. Here is my dislike for
Apple,
bulletpointed:

- proprietary, locked down.

As is almost every (succesful) phone on the market. Open source hasn't
produced such great things in life. Yes I like some Linux distros,
particularly Ubuntu server, but those Linux distributions that are the
best are those that have adopted a more or less proprieatary approach to
the release of software (Ubuntu, Red Hat, and shudder SuSE).

Ah - but I could install any application I wanted on those operating
systems - not just those the vendor decides I can.

- no Flash.

Flash is an abomination. No flash is actually one reason that I would
buy an iPhone.

Agreed - Flash isn't brilliant - and I prefer the simplicity of a well
designed website over Flash any day - but saying you don't want Flash is
cutting out a great proportion of the web. It's strange, most iPhone users I
know (who actually aren't fan boys by the way - but they do like the
product) really would like the inclusion of Flash.

- appearance over functionality (admittedly more Mac than iPhone)

That's simply name calling and untrue.

Well it may be untrue, but it's not name calling.

- forcefeeding of software to 'support' the devices (i.e. iTunes)

Every phone needs something at the other end of the link. iTunes is IMO
a better endpoint that Samsung PC Studio or that forgettabel crap that
Nokia use. I've heard the same about the iPod and I've seen the hideous
inconsistent mess that users make when they load music onto their device
without something like iTunes to organise it. I prefer to have a package
that helps me to manage the crap on my iPod and would like something
similar for my phone.

Ahem - mount the phone like a physical drive, and just copy your files
across from your PC maybe? The package is called Windows Explorer, or
equivalent on other machines.

- Apple fanboys, like the numpty who overheard me talking to a friend
about
MP3 players in a supermarket queue, who then turned round, interrupted,
and
started telling me that I needed an iPod, 'cos it was so ... ooh ...
incredible.

They like the product - a lot. If you think they're anal try talking to
a Porsche owner or a TVR owner. Or (god help you) anyone with an Acorn
Risc heap of crap.

But he could not relate to me one benefit that made coherent sense.

All of those could be described as advantages, perhaps, but not to me - I
prefer an open architecture.

Your turn.

Well let me see:

1. Every Android phone is a brick with a poor quality display.
The display of my HTC Legend seems pretty good to me. I've no complaints. As
for being a brick - I'd prefer to describe it as an aluminium nugget.

2. Androids with a keyboard have a lousy keyboard.
Don't know. Not even researched them.

3. Androids with touchscreen are unresponsive and there's a noticeable
delay between touch and response.
Absolute nonsense. There is no lag on my 700MHz Legend, and I'd be even
surer there's no lag on the 1GHz Desire.

4. The processors are sloooooooooow.
Yes, compared to my Core 2 Quad, they are slow. But I've zero complaints
about anything I've required of my phone. Wasn't the 3GS a 600MHz processor?
The iPhone 4G is 1.2GHz? So Apple may have a faster processor (frequency
wise - I know little about the instruction set to be honest), but just like
Apple PCs versus Wintel PCs, Apple release a device, and the hardware will
stay constant. The many Android phones will undoubtedly edge the processors
up and exceed the speed of the iPhone 4G pretty quickly.

5. The designs are dreadful, the sort of tat knocked out by engineers
who think they know best.
You've not held the Legend then?

6. The interfaces are poorly designed and inconsistent. Each maker
(makers like Motorola. HTC and Samsung none of whom understand
interface) creates their own "look and feel".
I can't say whether Motorola and Samsung produce poorly designed interfaces,
but yes, of course they are all 'inconsistent'. I think the word your
looking for is 'different' though, which is what they should be. If other
people sold Apple phones, they'd likely not want it to look exactly the way
Apple did.

7. Like Linux it feels like something dreamed up by a kid in his
bedroom and the kid hasn't got around to finishing it yet.
You liked some Linux distros before.

8. Not one Android has the "pick it up, yes I know how this works" feel
of the iPhone.
I read no instructions when my phone arrived...

9. Where are the apps?
You've lost me. But I've not lost the apps - they are one touch command
away.

10. If you think Apple is the Great Satan you really haven't thought
about Google. At least so far Apple haven't tried to photograph my
bare arse in my garden or record the details of my WiFi including
data traffic and passwords.
You can see your bare arse in your garden from the top of a car? Difference
between Google and Apple is that Google, whilst a little info grabbing, does
actually give something back. What did I ever get from Apple, apart from a
load of annoyanceware (alongside Quicktime), or "a package that helps me to
manage the crap on my iPod"? Yes, I did get given an iPod Shuffle as a promo
gift after a business seminar. Despite being a very basic device, I did like
the look of it, and did try to use it, but I'm afraid I got fed up when
iTunes wanted to convert everything music-related on my system into it's own
format.

11. If you think Apple fanbois are bad, you haven't met a Google/Android
fanboi. At least Apple fanbois look as if they get laid from time to
time and can find a bar of soap without detailed instructions in
hexadecimal.
Now you're getting a little pathetic...what was it you said about name
calling?

12. Flash on Android? Sometimes and perhaps if you chose the right
handset and then you get to deal with a slow pile of dross running
emulated code, on a slow processor.
And a bit more pathetic still.

13. Life with an Android is letting yourself in for a future of geekery
just to get a bloody phone working. Life's too short.
The missus loves her HTC Desire. She's no geek. She took to it like a duck
to water. Hell, she "picked it up and knew how it worked".

14. It takes a particular type of talent to come up with something worse
than a Sony Ericcson phone, and HTC etc have managed to do exactly\
that.
Why are Apple suing HTC *only* for a load of design patents? Is it because
HTC have come out with a pile of crap? Or is it because there is (whether
you like it or not), a *MASSIVE* uptake of HTC Android phones going on right
now.


I'm sure I could go on for days about Android, face it though it's
unfortunately here today very definitely not here tomorrow crap. Even
Google are bailing out on their own product.
That's all folks. I think the last product sums up Steve Firth's
attitude/feelings etc.

John Whitworth wrote:

Ahem - mount the phone like a physical drive, and just copy your files
across from your PC maybe? The package is called Windows Explorer, or
equivalent on other machines.

I guess you missed the comment about "hideous inconsistent mess"?

I'd like to reply to the rest of your post, but this open source news
server won't let me reply to so much material. My Mac Newsreader is hapy
to compose the post, but INN rejects it. I guess that's a case where
Open Source forces the user to do something they don't want?

[massive snip]

That's all folks. I think the last product sums up Steve Firth's
attitude/feelings etc.

See, I knew you realy weren't open to a discussion about the Android.
You're just an Apple hating Android fanboi, as you declared earlier.

"John Whitworth" wrote in message
...


"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Anita Palley wrote:

On 20 June, 10:04, (Steve Firth) wrote:
John Whitworth wrote:
I'm sure, however, that you dislike Android. Would be helpful for
the
OP if you could expand a little, with your reasons.

In the same way that you expanded on your hatred of the iPhone you
mean?

Oh dear

sigh

Mr Whitworth made this observation: "I've never been a fan of iPhones
(I'll go Apple bashing any day)"

It therefore seems hypocritical in the extreme that he shoudl then
demand that others justify in (presumably technical) detail why they
dislike particular technologies.

Your response seems to show a particular lack of observation of what has
been said in the thread or a particular mindset, which is it? I note for
example that you didn't post "oh dear" in response to his vacuous
offering.

If Mr Whitworth turns his Android Fanboi Apple Sukz!! attitude into
something that has substance I'll do the same for the Android.

OK...fair enough. I touched a nerve - sorry. Here is my dislike for Apple,
bulletpointed:

- proprietary, locked down.
- no Flash.
- appearance over functionality (admittedly more Mac than iPhone)
- forcefeeding of software to 'support' the devices (i.e. iTunes)
- Apple fanboys, like the numpty who overheard me talking to a friend
about MP3 players in a supermarket queue, who then turned round,
interrupted, and started telling me that I needed an iPod, 'cos it was so
... ooh ... incredible.

All of those could be described as advantages, perhaps, but not to me - I
prefer an open architecture.

Your turn.
JW

To butt in here with an aside: as you seem to have looked at this can you
recommend an alternative MP3 player that docks with the same connector as an
iPod? Just saying this cos I was conned into buying a piece of ipod-like
junk at christmas and now have nice speakers but nothing to dock on them in
my reluctance to be 'proprietarily locked down'. Burnt once I have been
reluctant to guess again.

S