Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each
weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that
area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a
machine or a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?

MrWeld wrote in message ...
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about 90cm
deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and gets
extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so I
don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.


Delegation skills?

mark

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

Shallow graves for tall aliens?

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

Oh, getting a mini-digger is always justified :-)

MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier?

Get a proper digging shovel with a long handle. The types of spades in
common use in the UK are useless for digging. I speak here as someone
who spent the last two weeks digging a 3m cubed hole and 48 metres of
trench in a mixture of extremely stony ground and thick clay.

I mean shovels like this:

http://www.toolbox.co.uk/bulldog-bul...try-4091-90750
http://www.toolbox.co.uk/spear-jacks...el-4091-132602

or for narrow trenches:
http://www.toolbox.co.uk/draper-2130...d-16207-120511


Any other tools I could buy?

A mattock if you have tree roots to cope with, or a pick axe if the
ground is stony.

http://www.toolbox.co.uk/silverline-...ing-2849-61777

You might find one of these useful in starting the hole. It's like a
long heavy chisel that you can use to break up the soil before tackling
with a shovel.

http://www.toolbox.co.uk/roughneck-p...7-13712-102657

For really stony ground or clay you can consider using a cheap SDS drill
with rotostop fitted with a wide chisel bit to break up the ground or
sculpt out lumps of clay. If doing this in clay ensure the clay is dry
to what potters call "leather hard" before using the SDS, and ensure you
have an RCD somewhere on the electrical supply.

Alternatively if the going is really tough consider hire of a breaker
hammer with a spade bit.

Only you can really tell what sort of ground you are digging in, so
start with the usual tools of spade, pick axe, mattock only turn to
other things if the conditions demand them. Remember that the long
handled tools enable you to break out the soil without breaking yourself
but you may find that you don't have the strength to push the spade
blade down a spit to commence digging.

Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?

Yes, after a fortnight you will have much more upper body and leg
strength. Be *very* careful to pace yourself over the early days. Flying
at it like a lunatic can cause injury that will persist for decades.

And it should be obvious, but needs saying, buying a load of toys isn't
going to make it that much easier. My preference is for a long handled
spade and a pick axe or a mattock with a pick axe spike. Just two tools
and you can dig almost any hole or trench in any conditions.

Avoid British digging spades, for they are ****e.

--
Burn Hollywood burn, burn down to the ground

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy?

Set of parallel mounted angle grinders?

--
Adrian C

mark wrote:
MrWeld wrote in message
...
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each
about 90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite
stony, and gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited,
so I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.


Delegation skills?

The sort of job that you pass on to the village idiot for a few quid.

--
Adam

Clive George wrote:

Oh, getting a mini-digger is always justified :-)

Buying one from eBay is justified if you have a lot of groundwork to do.
I've had really good value from my £750 eBay buy of a PowerFab TD1. OTOH
not many people have projects that require footings, drainage and
installation of services and (hopefully) a swimming pool. So the
expenditure does have to be weighed carefully against contractor
fees/time.

My recent burial of a large storage container for rainwater took me four
days of continuous digging to prepare and inter the tank and dig the
trenches for the rain water drainage. All done now but required "quite a
bit" of manual labour as well as the use of a digger, because diggers
can't get into all locations and levelling trenches takes fine work with
a spade.

Forget to mention in my earlier post, these can also be useful:

http://www.tesco.com/direct/de-wit-s...oe/625-4055.pr
d

http://www.tesco.com/direct/de-wit-d...t/509-3783.prd

Although I wouldn't pay those prices for one and I prefer mine to have a
long handle. The first is good in heavy clay or boulder clay, the second
is good in stony or sandy soil.

--
Burn Hollywood burn, burn down to the ground

On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 13:13:50 +0100, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each
weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that
area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a
machine or a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?

C4.

--
A man goes into a library and asks for a book on suicide.
The librarian says, "**** off, you won't bring it back!"

In article ,
says...

Delegation skills?

The sort of job that you pass on to the village idiot for a few quid.

Or apprentice

In article , MrWeld MrWeld@?.?
writes
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

First of all luv, that's a trench not an 'ole B-)

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each
weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that
area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a
machine or a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?

As it appears to be stony clay and narrow I'd suggest using the adze
part of a mattock[1] to do the main trenching, digging out the loose
debris with either the spade or the shovel. If at any time it becomes
easy enough to use the spade then do so, in with weight on the boot,
lever back to loosen then heave out, working in the trench all the time.

Depending on the ground I'd expect a bit of collapse but if it's for
foundations then just clear it out and order a bit more concrete.

If you've got soft hands then you probably want to wear work gloves and
maybe tape around your palms with zinc oxide tape to reduce the risk of
blisters.

Well done for having a go.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattock
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

Not as far as my experience goes. Blisters on the hands even with gloves
seem to be a real issue. I'd get someone else to do it if I ever need a few
holes in future. The soil around here is all clay!
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
MrWeld wrote in message ...
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about 90cm
deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and gets
extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so I
don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each weekend
of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that area, so
that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a machine or
a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?

Ah yes, the old Half a hole, now dig the other half for me thing.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"mark" wrote in message
...

MrWeld wrote in message ...
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so I
don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.


Delegation skills?

mark

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each
weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that
area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a
machine or a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

The obvious tool to add would be a grubbing mattock (superficially looks
a bit like a pick axe, but with shorter and much wide blades. One
oriented inline with the shaft, and one across. Very good for chopping
up areas of hard or stony ground prior to removal with a shovel etc.

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?

Yup, if you pace yourself and work up to it, it will get easier. Don't
try and do too much in one go at first.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/07/2013 13:40, Clive George wrote:
On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

Shallow graves for tall aliens?

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

Oh, getting a mini-digger is always justified :-)

No argument there... and those small 850kg machines with the "tuck
under" tracks can get through any normal door sized gap.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long.

Sorry, forgot to add, we call these holes "trenches". HTH.

--
Burn Hollywood burn, burn down to the ground

ARW wrote:

The sort of job that you pass on to the village idiot for a few quid.

FX: waves

--
Burn Hollywood burn, burn down to the ground

MrWeld scribbled...



Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?


Look down the dole office for a middle aged bloke with calloused hands
and offer cash.

On 14/07/2013 14:07, Steve Firth wrote:
Clive George wrote:

Oh, getting a mini-digger is always justified :-)

Buying one from eBay is justified if you have a lot of groundwork to do.
I've had really good value from my £750 eBay buy of a PowerFab TD1.

Isn't £750 an absolute steal for one of those? I suspect that you could
have sold it on for £3k and spent the profit on hiring a bigger machine.

MrWeld wrote:
So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel

You seem to understand the difference between a spade and a shovel,
they are not synonyms. A spade is the digging equivalent of a knife,
is used to cut into the ground; a shovel is the digging equivalent
of a spoon, is used to lift and shift. Shovels also work best if
there's a firm surface to run them against, otherwise they end up
hitting the stuff you're shovelling side-on.

I agree with the recommendation to get a mattock, especially for
trench-like holes. I also find a right-angle rake useful for
gathering lumps together.

Pace yourself, use any excuse to stop for a cuppa. Heat exhaustion
can creep up on you unexpectedly if you're not used to it.

JGH

In article ,
scribeth thus
MrWeld wrote:
So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel

You seem to understand the difference between a spade and a shovel,
they are not synonyms. A spade is the digging equivalent of a knife,
is used to cut into the ground; a shovel is the digging equivalent
of a spoon, is used to lift and shift. Shovels also work best if
there's a firm surface to run them against, otherwise they end up
hitting the stuff you're shovelling side-on.

JGH


So what's an "Earth inverting horticultural implement" called then;?...

--
Tony Sayer

GB wrote:

On 14/07/2013 14:07, Steve Firth wrote:
Clive George wrote:

Oh, getting a mini-digger is always justified :-)

Buying one from eBay is justified if you have a lot of groundwork to do.
I've had really good value from my £750 eBay buy of a PowerFab TD1.

Isn't £750 an absolute steal for one of those?

I thought so, but it seemed to be about average at the time I bought it.
Three on sale all around the same price. I bought mine from a nice man
in South Wales who was a Hardly Doesn'tRun enthusiast, he used his
motorhome to tow it all the way to my house and refused payment for the
fuel.

It had issues I must say, and this year will need a selection of new
hydraulic hose, but nothing too major and has worked well for the past
three years.

Biggest problem with them is that they don't have any drive to the
wheels and don't have a 350º pivot. You learn to cope and use the arm to
hoik the thing around the land.

Towing it 1500 miles south was "interesting". Great fun in France when
the strap holding the arm down broke and the arm flipped into the air
and a buttock-clenching session when a crap French autoroute resulted in
the tail wagging the dog.

I suspect that you could have sold it on for £3k and spent the profit on
hiring a bigger machine.

Heh, possibly.

--
Burn Hollywood burn, burn down to the ground

On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:06:14 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
"Gefreiter Krueger" wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 13:13:50 +0100, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each
weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that
area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a
machine or a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?

C4.

My C4 doesn't have a trenching attachment but it does get 60mpg.

My Golf gets 56mpg, and it can pull up hedges.

--
Women like silent men, they think they're listening.

"tony sayer" wrote in message ...

In article ,
scribeth thus
MrWeld wrote:
So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel

You seem to understand the difference between a spade and a shovel,
they are not synonyms. A spade is the digging equivalent of a knife,
is used to cut into the ground; a shovel is the digging equivalent
of a spoon, is used to lift and shift. Shovels also work best if
there's a firm surface to run them against, otherwise they end up
hitting the stuff you're shovelling side-on.

JGH


So what's an "Earth inverting horticultural implement" called then;?...


A Plough or A Rotavator !

AWEM

MrWeld wrote in message ...
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about 90cm
deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and gets
extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so I
don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each weekend
of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that area, so
that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a machine or
a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?


You will additionally need a pick or a mattock.
And possibly a heavy bar.
You want a pointy spade, square ones are much harder work.

Wheel barrow to move the excavate.

And a well thought out plan to avoid double handling the excavate.

Eg will you need a skip or can it be disposedof on site?
Eg Get the barrow by the hole and throw the muck straight into it.
If so, can you get a skip with a side door? (Saves getting it over the
side).
Cost of tipping is huge if you can't . (Landfill tax)

If you are unused to manual work break yourself in gradually.
Do a bit everynight. Start with a half hour and work up to it.
It's very easy to permanently **** up your back.

Are you aquainted with any Poles or Lithuanians?

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each
weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that
area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a
machine or a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?



It does get easier, but a mattock would help. One of these might help
too - farmers use them all the time when digging holes in stony ground:

http://www.jarrettfencing.co.uk/inde...mlt26ad5a65083

In message , MrWeld
writes
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each
weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in
that area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than
get a machine or a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?

From the response, everyone knows about digging holes...

For clay with stones (hoggin?) I think a pickaxe better than the broad
points of a mattock. Strong shovel for removing loosened soil and the
heavy 4 pronged fork used by anyone digging for a living. I've acquired
several over the years; usually left behind by navvies laying pipe/cable
on the farm. The conventional wooden handle is reinforced with a steel
strip front and back which adds weight to do some of the pickaxe work.


--
Tim Lamb

On Sunday 14 July 2013 20:05 Farmer Giles wrote in uk.d-i-y:


It does get easier, but a mattock would help. One of these might help
too - farmers use them all the time when digging holes in stony ground:

Agree - been using a mattock on some hard dry soil this week. It breaks the
soil up with little effort leaving shoveling of loose material only which is
a lot easier than "digging". Also makes light work of small roots.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 14/07/2013 21:16, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , MrWeld
writes
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited,
so I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each
weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in
that area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than
get a machine or a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any
other tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does
digging get much easier when you're doing it every day?

From the response, everyone knows about digging holes...

But clearly you think you know more about it than anyone else...

On 14/07/2013 15:02, John Rumm wrote:


The obvious tool to add would be a grubbing mattock (superficially looks
a bit like a pick axe, but with shorter and much wide blades. One
oriented inline with the shaft, and one across. Very good for chopping
up areas of hard or stony ground prior to removal with a shovel etc.

+1 for a mattock
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p20759

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.

I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so
I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.

I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each
weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that
area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a
machine or a person to dig for me.

So far I've got these tools:
- Large spade and medium spade.
- Heavy narrow trenching spade.
- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the
two-handled scoopy thing).
- Shovel
- Protective gloves and boots

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?


Well if it was me it would be a no brainer, I would buy a second hand
Powerfab or other mini digger and sell it afterwards. (Or more likely
keep it).

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long.

C'mon, you can't just throw that on here asking for advice, without
saying WHY?!

--
David

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet....

That is deep enough to trap you if it collapses when you are standing in
it. You need to consider how to summon help if that happens, or take
precautions, such as shoring, to prevent it. Sticky when wet suggests
clay, which has a very nasty habit of allowing you to cut vertical sides
when dry, but collapsing at a shallow angle in the rain. Make sure you
stack any excavated soil well clear of the trench (at least 8ft / 2.4m),
to avoid loading on the soil alongside it, unless it is adequately
shored of course.

Colin Bignell

On Monday, July 15, 2013 11:23:36 AM UTC+12, Lobster wrote:
On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:

Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about

90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long.



C'mon, you can't just throw that on here asking for advice, without

saying WHY?!

I agree. We could come up with alternative solutions, such as making a 90x50x3000 wooden box, and dumping lots of soil around it, then moving the box to the next bit.

On 15/07/2013 00:23, Lobster wrote:
On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long.

C'mon, you can't just throw that on here asking for advice, without
saying WHY?!


shallow graves for tall people?
foundations for a garden monorail?
scale model Stonehenge?

On Sunday, July 14, 2013 1:13:50 PM UTC+1, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about

90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy?

When my father in-law (in his 70s) dug the 1000mm deep trench foundations for our extension he needed a pick axe to dig the bottom 6" of the trench because the ground was packed so hard.

It took him about 1 day per metre of trench length IIRC.

Robert

On 15/07/2013 13:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:35:55 +0100, Nightjar wrote:

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet....

That is deep enough to trap you if it collapses when you are standing in
it.

Huh ? 90 *cm* deep ?

Did you mistake length for depth

A collapse in a trench that deep is unlikely to be fatal, but it
certainly could trap a person by the legs. If there is nobody around to
dig them out, that could be a serious problem.

Colin Bignell

On 14/07/2013 21:16, Tim Lamb wrote:

From the response, everyone knows about digging holes...

When you are in a hole the usual recommendation is to stop digging. ;-)

For clay with stones (hoggin?) I think a pickaxe better than the broad
points of a mattock. Strong shovel for removing loosened soil and the
heavy 4 pronged fork used by anyone digging for a living. I've acquired
several over the years; usually left behind by navvies laying pipe/cable
on the farm. The conventional wooden handle is reinforced with a steel
strip front and back which adds weight to do some of the pickaxe work.

Mattocks come in two flavours. The traditional one has an axe opposite
the adze but you can also get one with a conventional pick opposite and
that is a more versatile tool than a straight pickaxe. Still need an axe
for any roots though.

FWIW when I dug out the clay floor of my barn I found the most effective
combination of tools was a garden fork and a sledge hammer. The hammer
was used in place of a foot as stamping on the fork made no impression
on the hard ground. A little bit of experimentation was required to
avoid burying the fork too deep or too far from the edge of the cut that
no amount of heaving on the handle would loosen the clod.



--
Roger Chapman

Roger Chapman wrote:
[snip]

FWIW when I dug out the clay floor of my barn I found the most effective
combination of tools was a garden fork and a sledge hammer. The hammer
was used in place of a foot as stamping on the fork made no impression on
the hard ground. A little bit of experimentation was required to avoid
burying the fork too deep or too far from the edge of the cut that no
amount of heaving on the handle would loosen the clod.

For a similar job I used an SDS drill with a chisel
To break up the floor.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:00:36 +0100, Nightjar wrote:

On 15/07/2013 13:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:35:55 +0100, Nightjar wrote:

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet....

That is deep enough to trap you if it collapses when you are standing
in it.

Huh ? 90 *cm* deep ?

Did you mistake length for depth

A collapse in a trench that deep is unlikely to be fatal, but it
certainly could trap a person by the legs. If there is nobody around to
dig them out, that could be a serious problem.

Colin Bignell

in which case you *really* don't want to read this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/10/safety_review/

Been there, done that, but in clay.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Sunday, July 14, 2013 1:49:45 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:
MrWeld MrWeld wrote:



Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier?



Get a proper digging shovel with a long handle. The types of spades in

common use in the UK are useless for digging. I speak here as someone

who spent the last two weeks digging a 3m cubed hole and 48 metres of

trench in a mixture of extremely stony ground and thick clay.



I mean shovels like this:



http://www.toolbox.co.uk/bulldog-bul...try-4091-90750

http://www.toolbox.co.uk/spear-jacks...el-4091-132602


Stunning advice.

Those are shovels. You don't dig with a shovel. Shovels are for shovelling.
That'd only work if the ground had been broken up by something.