In message

, Steve Firth writes

I've not experienced one twisting in my hands in use, but I suspect as
paving expert says, it's all down to practice. I've also not experienced
blades bending or cutting into my feet but I wear boots when digging and
buy tools that aren't made from tinfoil.

If it is safe here....

As has been said, at lot depends on the job and the type of soil. I have
only ever dug holes in Hertfordshire which could be soft chalk but more
likely a few inches of flinty topsoil over flint studded boulder clay.
Anything with a square edge would only be used for removing loosened
soil and creating a flat bottom to the trench. The distance would be to
a nearby barrow or just clear of the trench edge so long handles not
helpful.

Digging would be by heavy, D handled 4 pronged fork unless penetration
could only be achieved with a pickaxe.

I use a forged, square edge, D handled shovel for removing soil not got
out with the fork.

This may not be the best/only way to do the job but it works for me and
I am too old to change:-)

The ones I use have a forged blade.


--
Tim Lamb

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:48:17 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:

So we've established that I'm correct and you're an ignorant gob****e.



It took time but even you have had to admit it.

No.

It has been established that two of the things you recommended for digging and posted links to were shovels.
Shovels are intended for shovelling loose material and are unsuitable for digging.

We also established that you did not know the difference between a shovel and a spade.
Fortunately, I did and was on hand to correct you.
So I did.

I knew the difference simply because I have dug a few holes.
Your claims of digging expertise are dubious; readers will have formed their own opinions.
I suspect you're a bull****ter.

Shovels are suitable for shovelling bull****.
I am enjoying your efforts at trying to dig yourself out of the mountain of bull**** you have buried yourself in.

To be fair, the third item you posted was an actual spade, intended for digging.

You're so not interested that you stalk me.

No.

I'm sorry if I shatter your illusions, but you are not of the slightest interest to me.
If you refrain from posting bull****, THEN we shall have no cross words.
You posted bull**** about digging, you posted an implausible shaggy dog story about naked people who, you claim, stalk your garden.


You're also a liar. Your only aim is to have a poke at me because you're a

mindless vindictive cowardly moron hiding behind an alias because you're

too much of a coward to sign your name to the **** you post.

I don't use my name because there are too many weirdos, bunny boilers and obsessive, compulsive, deranged, aspergers-afflicted, billy-no-mates, trolling morons wasting their pointless lives on the internet by picking fights.

Your posts in this thread alone justifies my caution.


My post was not misleading and all you are doing is to prove that I was
right.

You recommended shovels, for digging. Misleading. The only similarity is in the shape. Anyone who has dug holes would know the difference.

Using your "logic" what makes you think an Englush spade is the ideal tool

for digging when rest of the world disagrees with you?

I think a spade is the tool best suited for digging.
Some prefer a long handle, but it would be awkward in a trench.
I think you'd have difficulty in finding a proper 'German-type' spade in the UK since I doubt there is much demand. I haven't looked, i don't want one.
You'd probably have to fit a long handle to an English spade head.

Sorry, but I have to quote from Oscar Wilde:


CECILY
....When I see a spade I call it a spade.

GWENDOLEN
I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:48:17 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:

So we've established that I'm correct and you're an ignorant gob****e.

I won't be posting on this thread any more, it has run its course and served it's purpose.

Spades are for digging, shovels are for shovelling.

If Firth wants to try to explain why he censored the relevant bits out of that quote from the Paving Expert site, I'd really like to read that.

I don't like the shouty, abusive persona he adopts to try to dominate this group, but I've no interest in him and I don't track his posts.

I probably read about 1 in 6 of the threads on here and only posted in this one because I knew that some readers would be misled by what was being recommended.

On 23/07/2013 15:09, Onetap wrote:
On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:48:17 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:

So we've established that I'm correct and you're an ignorant
gob****e.



It took time but even you have had to admit it.

No.

It has been established that two of the things you recommended for
digging and posted links to were shovels. Shovels are intended for
shovelling loose material and are unsuitable for digging.

Does the manufacturers description (not to mention the 100+ Amazon
reviews) of the "digging shovel" not give you pause for thought on that?

We also established that you did not know the difference between a
shovel and a spade. Fortunately, I did and was on hand to correct
you. So I did.

You gave what I would consider to the be the "correct" use of the terms
*in the UK*. However it does appear that other's don't have the same
rigid differentiation that we apply.




--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:
On 23/07/2013 15:09, Onetap wrote:
On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:48:17 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:

So we've established that I'm correct and you're an ignorant
gob****e.



It took time but even you have had to admit it.

No.

It has been established that two of the things you recommended for
digging and posted links to were shovels. Shovels are intended for
shovelling loose material and are unsuitable for digging.

Does the manufacturers description (not to mention the 100+ Amazon
reviews) of the "digging shovel" not give you pause for thought on
that?
We also established that you did not know the difference between a
shovel and a spade. Fortunately, I did and was on hand to correct
you. So I did.

You gave what I would consider to the be the "correct" use of the
terms *in the UK*. However it does appear that other's don't have the
same rigid differentiation that we apply.

That may be true but, I have to say, we in the UK are just simply *right*.
The rest of the world has got it wrong. ;-)

Tim

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:39:33 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

Does the manufacturers description (not to mention the 100+ Amazon

reviews) of the "digging shovel" not give you pause for thought on that?

I'm not sure what you're on about.
I meant these links;

On Sunday, July 14, 2013 1:49:45 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:
MrWeld MrWeld wrote:



Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier?



Get a proper digging shovel with a long handle. The types of spades in

common use in the UK are useless for digging. I speak here as someone

who spent the last two weeks digging a 3m cubed hole and 48 metres of

trench in a mixture of extremely stony ground and thick clay.



I mean shovels like this:



http://www.toolbox.co.uk/bulldog-bul...try-4091-90750

http://www.toolbox.co.uk/spear-jacks...el-4091-132602



or for narrow trenches:

http://www.toolbox.co.uk/draper-2130...d-16207-120511


First 2 are shovels, unsuited for digging, despite what anyone may say. The Irish shovel could be used for 'light digging' (manufacturer's description).
The other one looks too flimsy. No flats, for a boot, on either. Both meant only for shovelling.
2 reviews of one, none for the other.

The 3rd is an actual spade, for digging.

You gave what I would consider to the be the "correct" use of the terms

*in the UK*. However it does appear that other's don't have the same

rigid differentiation that we apply.

Yes; would you buy a spade or shovel from a manufacturer who didn't know the correct terms?
Most of the 'manufacturers' are importing from China and clueless about their products.

I looked at Spear & Jackson's (only name that came to mind; I bought one of their spades a year or so back) site, they seem to stick to the correct terms. Some of their products look very like othet makers', except for the label. Drapers call everything shovels.

On Tuesday 23 July 2013 15:09 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:


Isn't the correct answer "hire a digger"?

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:


*smack* Thass the shaft, I'm talking about the lack of a D handle at the top of the shaft.

I'm terribly sorry that my use of standard English caused such confusion.

If I ever get practiced at using one, then something has gone wrong.

I bet you use a PC.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:

[snip]

I bet you use a PC.

Ah, give over. You know better than that.

Indeed but it was the most Dismissive comment I could think of.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

Onetap wrote:

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:48:17 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:



You're so not interested that you stalk me.

No.
I'm sorry if I shatter your illusions, but you are not of the slightest
interest to me.

i think you should Killfile S Firth and forget you ever heard of him.
He seems to suffer from a Delusional disorder about the things he has done
and owned.
from his web site,
€œWhat a great idea. Prove what car you own by posting a photo of the car
showing it with a tin of custard. I started with a picture of my car, and as
I get the custard tin from place to place Ill photograph it with my other
vehicles.€�
http://www.malloc.co.uk/malloc/Photos.html


-

On Sunday, 14 July 2013 13:13:50 UTC+1, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about

90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and

gets extremely sticky in the wet.



I only want to dig one hole per weekend, and access is very limited, so

I don't think hiring a mini-digger is justified.



I have the upper body strength of a computer programmer, but each

weekend of digging brings noticeable, if temporary, improvements in that

area, so that's a reason I would prefer to dig myself rather than get a

machine or a person to dig for me.



So far I've got these tools:

- Large spade and medium spade.

- Heavy narrow trenching spade.

- Post hole diggers (both the heavy chopping blade thing, and the

two-handled scoopy thing).

- Shovel

- Protective gloves and boots



Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other

tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get

much easier when you're doing it every day?



Forget tools, technique, pacing yourself just dig the ****ers somewhere softer and end this thread!

On 23/07/2013 16:06, Onetap wrote:
On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:39:33 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

Does the manufacturers description (not to mention the 100+ Amazon

reviews) of the "digging shovel" not give you pause for thought on
that?

I'm not sure what you're on about.

The links I posted:

http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-9668-H...ef=pd_sim_lg_5

and

http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-9669-D...T H8D331YC368

Yes; would you buy a spade or shovel from a manufacturer who didn't
know the correct terms?

If its a good product, of course. If you are buying outside the UK
(where the digging shovel seems common), then there is no point getting
stuck up about the name noting reflecting the correct use of the queen's
English is there?



--
Cheers,

John.

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Mark wrote:
Onetap wrote:

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:48:17 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:



You're so not interested that you stalk me.

No.
I'm sorry if I shatter your illusions, but you are not of the slightest
interest to me.

i think you should Killfile S Firth and forget you ever heard of him.
He seems to suffer from a Delusional disorder about the things he has done
and owned.
from his web site,
€œWhat a great idea. Prove what car you own by posting a photo of the car
showing it with a tin of custard. I started with a picture of my car, and as
I get the custard tin from place to place Ill photograph it with my other
vehicles.€�
http://www.malloc.co.uk/malloc/Photos.html

You stupid ****er ... The concept of "humour" goes right over your head,
doesn't it?

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:16:27 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

The links I posted:



http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-9668-H...ef=pd_sim_lg_5

Yes. I'd call that a spade, they can call it whatever they like.

My point was that there are essential differences between shovels & spades, as there are between drill bits & masonry drills, that makes each unsuited to the other's purpose. The outward similarity may confuse the naive.

The blade on that looks like a pressing and I think it would be too bendy. I doubt it would last long on a road job.

One of the Amazon reviewers said he'd broken it but he was still pleased with it because they sent him a new one.

On 24/07/2013 10:12, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:16:27 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

The links I posted:



http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-9668-H...ef=pd_sim_lg_5


Yes. I'd call that a spade, they can call it whatever they like.

My point was that there are essential differences between shovels &
spades, as there are between drill bits & masonry drills, that makes
each unsuited to the other's purpose. The outward similarity may
confuse the naive.

I don't think anyone was disagreeing with that... but in the end its the
design and materials that matter, not what you call it.

The blade on that looks like a pressing and I think it would be too
bendy. I doubt it would last long on a road job.

If you read some of the blurb it says its forged, and then welded to the
handle... its whole raison d'etre seems to be the spade you use when
other spades are not man enough for the job.

One of the Amazon reviewers said he'd broken it but he was still
pleased with it because they sent him a new one.

Nice to know they honour the lifetime guarantee I suppose.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\================================================= ================/

On 24/07/13 13:22, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2013 10:12, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:16:27 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

The links I posted:



http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-9668-H...ef=pd_sim_lg_5



Yes. I'd call that a spade, they can call it whatever they like.

In america a spade is a black man.

So they have to call spades, shovels.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:22:39 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

I don't think anyone was disagreeing with that... but in the end its the

design and materials that matter, not what you call it.

We agree.


If you read some of the blurb it says its forged, and then welded to the

handle... its whole raison d'etre seems to be the spade you use when

other spades are not man enough for the job.

Can't see any mention of forged, Fiskars site says it's a "Welded 14-gauge hardened steel blade". I think it's a pressing, but could be wrong.
I think 14-gauge is thinner than the blades of most spades.

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:44:45 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/07/13 13:22, John Rumm wrote:

On 24/07/2013 10:12, Onetap wrote:

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:16:27 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:



The links I posted:







http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-9668-H...ef=pd_sim_lg_5







Yes. I'd call that a spade, they can call it whatever they like.



In america a spade is a black man.



So they have to call spades, shovels.

snip.

In Ireland sandwiches are referred to as 'Sambos'. Wouldn't fancy ordering one of those in Lonodn

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:44:45 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

In america a spade is a black man.



So they have to call spades, shovels.

Of course! PC bollox.
Explains much.

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:00:32 PM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:22:39 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:



I don't think anyone was disagreeing with that... but in the end its the



design and materials that matter, not what you call it.



We agree.





If you read some of the blurb it says its forged, and then welded to the



handle... its whole raison d'etre seems to be the spade you use when



other spades are not man enough for the job.



Can't see any mention of forged, Fiskars site says it's a "Welded 14-gauge hardened steel blade". I think it's a pressing, but could be wrong.

I think 14-gauge is thinner than the blades of most spades.

14 gauge is about 2mm. Sounds thin to me. I've yet see anyone explain the given dimensions.

On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 14:01:50 UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:44:45 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:



In america a spade is a black man.







So they have to call spades, shovels.



Of course! PC bollox.

Explains much.

by googling
http://www.ehow.co.uk/about_6614476_...e-shovel_.html

Differences

The only difference between a shovel and a spade is the scooping tip. The very bottom edge on a spade is completely flat. This is surprising, because the spade shape in cards looks like the head of a shovel, which comes to a pointed tip in the middle. Another difference between spades and shovels is their intended use.

Uses

Spades, with their flat tips, are used for moving dirt and other materials from one place to another. They are also used for evening the depth of a garden bed by levelling the soil. The blade can also be used to loosen the soil by pushing the flat blade into the soil. Shovels are used for digging deep into the earth. Shovels can also be used to loosen soil. Shovels are also better at moving soil from one place to another, because their scoop is deeper than that of a spade.

Benefits

It is useful to have both a shovel and a spade on hand for any gardening or construction task. This is because efficiency is lost if the wrong tool is used. Keep shovels on hand for digging and moving, and spades on hand for loosening and levelling the soil.


I assume both are suitable for disciplining apprentices and students alike ;-)

Nice to have a couple in various colours

On 23/07/2013 15:20, Onetap wrote:
On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:48:17 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:

So we've established that I'm correct and you're an ignorant gob****e.

I won't be posting on this thread any more, it has run its course and served it's purpose.

Spades are for digging, shovels are for shovelling.

If Firth wants to try to explain why he censored the relevant bits out of that quote from the Paving Expert site, I'd really like to read that.

I don't like the shouty, abusive persona he adopts to try to dominate this group, but I've no interest in him and I don't track his posts.

I probably read about 1 in 6 of the threads on here and only posted in this one because I knew that some readers would be misled by what was being recommended.

Steve is argumentative and can be unnecessarily abusive. But in this
thread and others you're doing a good job of demonstrating that
sometimes his abuse is deserved.

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:54:01 PM UTC+1, Clive George wrote:
But in this

thread and others you're doing a good job of demonstrating that

sometimes his abuse is deserved.

Sure, Steve.

Knowing the difference between a spade and a shovel and pointing out that the emperor has no clothes are
both crimes that cannot pass without a bit of puerile name-calling.

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:16:42 PM UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:

Spades, with their flat tips, are used for moving dirt and other materials from one place to another. They are also used for evening the depth of a garden bed by levelling the soil. The blade can also be used to loosen the soil by pushing the flat blade into the soil. Shovels are used for digging deep into the earth. Shovels can also be used to loosen soil. Shovels are also better at moving soil from one place to another, because their scoop is deeper than that of a spade.

They've got that arse about face.

On 24/07/13 14:00, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:22:39 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

I don't think anyone was disagreeing with that... but in the end its the

design and materials that matter, not what you call it.
We agree.


If you read some of the blurb it says its forged, and then welded to the

handle... its whole raison d'etre seems to be the spade you use when

other spades are not man enough for the job.
Can't see any mention of forged, Fiskars site says it's a "Welded 14-gauge hardened steel blade". I think it's a pressing, but could be wrong.
I think 14-gauge is thinner than the blades of most spades.
denitely. Some of the best spades we have are 8-10 gauge forged-hard to
tell the gauge because being forged, they vary all over the particular
bit of spade you measure.


14 gauge - even American gauge - is flimsy****e

Best UK spades i am aware of is bulldog

http://www.fredshed.co.uk/bulldogtools.htm

since we have broken several 'garden centre pretty' spades and forks we
now buy only those, or second hand rusty old 'grandad's old garden tools'.

The ones with straps going up the shaft are the best, but bulldog only
do a strapped fork.

welded are ****e as are ones with tubular steel shafts rather than wood.
Buckled two tubular shafts to date - one tore in half.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.


Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?



I find a mattock useful when doing any such trenching (plus a pick)

On 14/07/2013 13:49, Steve Firth wrote:
MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier?

Get a proper digging shovel with a long handle. The types of spades in
common use in the UK are useless for digging.

Avoid British digging spades, for they are ****e.



I spent my time at school & college working weekends on a family members
building firm .... while long handled shovel are good for soft ground or
moving sand .... the best for digging was a D-handle spade.
With a Square mouth shovel for squaring off.

I have since built 3 house and still have same opinion, the D-handle
allows far better leverage than a straight or T-handle.

These style of shovel built the canals, the railways etc. ... several
million Irish Navvies can't be wrong :-)

On 24/07/13 16:18, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 14/07/2013 13:13, MrWeld wrote:
Over the next few months I will need to dig lots of holes, each about
90cm deep by 50cm wide by 3 metres long. The soil is quite stony, and
gets extremely sticky in the wet.


Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy? Is it just a case of pacing myself? Does digging get
much easier when you're doing it every day?



I find a mattock useful when doing any such trenching (plus a pick)
I find that when digging post holes in clay in the end I just sit there
with my arm down a meter or so scooping it all out with a trowel.

Its not HARD it just takes an hour per hole without a soil auger.

But the OPS problem is slit trenches more or less. Which is where I wimp
out and hire a minidigger.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 24/07/2013 15:55, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:16:42 PM UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:

Spades, with their flat tips, are used for moving dirt and other
materials from one place to another. They are also used for evening
the depth of a garden bed by levelling the soil. The blade can also
be used to loosen the soil by pushing the flat blade into the soil.
Shovels are used for digging deep into the earth. Shovels can also
be used to loosen soil. Shovels are also better at moving soil from
one place to another, because their scoop is deeper than that of a
spade.

They've got that arse about face.

You don't want to go walking on a pavement in the US either...


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 24/07/2013 16:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/07/13 14:00, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:22:39 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
I don't think anyone was disagreeing with that... but in the end its the

design and materials that matter, not what you call it.
We agree.

If you read some of the blurb it says its forged, and then welded to the

handle... its whole raison d'etre seems to be the spade you use when

other spades are not man enough for the job.
Can't see any mention of forged, Fiskars site says it's a "Welded
14-gauge hardened steel blade". I think it's a pressing, but could be
wrong.
I think 14-gauge is thinner than the blades of most spades.
denitely. Some of the best spades we have are 8-10 gauge forged-hard to
tell the gauge because being forged, they vary all over the particular
bit of spade you measure.


14 gauge - even American gauge - is flimsy****e

Best UK spades i am aware of is bulldog

http://www.fredshed.co.uk/bulldogtools.htm

since we have broken several 'garden centre pretty' spades and forks we
now buy only those, or second hand rusty old 'grandad's old garden tools'.

The ones with straps going up the shaft are the best, but bulldog only
do a strapped fork.

welded are ****e as are ones with tubular steel shafts rather than wood.
Buckled two tubular shafts to date - one tore in half.

The most useless one I bought was a B&Q stainless "extra long" spade -
it might be extra long, but you get no extra leverage since its extra bendy!


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On 24/07/2013 13:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/07/13 13:22, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2013 10:12, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:16:27 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

The links I posted:



http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-9668-H...ef=pd_sim_lg_5



Yes. I'd call that a spade, they can call it whatever they like.

In america a spade is a black man.

So they have to call spades, shovels.

But not, if I remember right, Sam Spade.

--
Rod

On 24/07/2013 14:16, whisky-dave wrote:


by googling
http://www.ehow.co.uk/about_6614476_...e-shovel_.html


If it is on ehow sites, it has little chance of being true.

--
Rod

On 24/07/2013 15:46, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:54:01 PM UTC+1, Clive George wrote:
But in this

thread and others you're doing a good job of demonstrating that

sometimes his abuse is deserved.

Sure, Steve.

Knowing the difference between a spade and a shovel and pointing out that the emperor has no clothes are
both crimes that cannot pass without a bit of puerile name-calling.


Um, my name is clearly stated. You've even quoted it. The name + email
address has been used for many years on usenet. Why are you calling me
Steve?

Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy?
Pickaxe
small axe for roots
sds chisel for concrete or rocks
[g]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 23:54:34 +0100, george - dicegeorge
wrote:



Are there any tips on how to make digging these holes easier? Any other
tools I could buy?
Pickaxe
small axe for roots
sds chisel for concrete or rocks

Angle grinder.

--
Frank Erskine

On 23/07/2013 15:50, Tim Downie wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 23/07/2013 15:09, Onetap wrote:
On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:48:17 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:

So we've established that I'm correct and you're an ignorant
gob****e.



It took time but even you have had to admit it.

No.

It has been established that two of the things you recommended for
digging and posted links to were shovels. Shovels are intended for
shovelling loose material and are unsuitable for digging.

Does the manufacturers description (not to mention the 100+ Amazon
reviews) of the "digging shovel" not give you pause for thought on
that?
We also established that you did not know the difference between a
shovel and a spade. Fortunately, I did and was on hand to correct
you. So I did.

You gave what I would consider to the be the "correct" use of the
terms *in the UK*. However it does appear that other's don't have the
same rigid differentiation that we apply.

That may be true but, I have to say, we in the UK are just simply
*right*. The rest of the world has got it wrong. ;-)

Tim



Wrong in so many ways :-)

Johnny Foreigner drives on the wrong side of the road, doesn't have
proper beer or chips, has dodgy electrics & plumbing......

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:16:42 PM UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 14:01:50 UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:44:45 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:







In america a spade is a black man.















So they have to call spades, shovels.







Of course! PC bollox.



Explains much.



by googling

http://www.ehow.co.uk/about_6614476_...e-shovel_.html



Differences



The only difference between a shovel and a spade is the scooping tip. The very bottom edge on a spade is completely flat. This is surprising, because the spade shape in cards looks like the head of a shovel, which comes to a pointed tip in the middle. Another difference between spades and shovels is their intended use.



Uses



Spades, with their flat tips, are used for moving dirt and other materials from one place to another. They are also used for evening the depth of a garden bed by levelling the soil. The blade can also be used to loosen the soil by pushing the flat blade into the soil. Shovels are used for digging deep into the earth. Shovels can also be used to loosen soil. Shovels are also better at moving soil from one place to another, because their scoop is deeper than that of a spade.



Benefits



It is useful to have both a shovel and a spade on hand for any gardening or construction task. This is because efficiency is lost if the wrong tool is used. Keep shovels on hand for digging and moving, and spades on hand for loosening and levelling the soil.





I assume both are suitable for disciplining apprentices and students alike ;-)



Nice to have a couple in various colours

Utterly, totally arse about face.

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 4:12:31 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
snip

Can't see any mention of forged, Fiskars site says it's a "Welded 14-gauge hardened steel blade". I think it's a pressing, but could be wrong.

I think 14-gauge is thinner than the blades of most spades.

denitely. Some of the best spades we have are 8-10 gauge forged-hard to

tell the gauge because being forged, they vary all over the particular

bit of spade you measure.





14 gauge - even American gauge - is flimsy****e



Best UK spades i am aware of is bulldog



http://www.fredshed.co.uk/bulldogtools.htm



since we have broken several 'garden centre pretty' spades and forks we

now buy only those, or second hand rusty old 'grandad's old garden tools'.



The ones with straps going up the shaft are the best, but bulldog only

do a strapped fork.



welded are ****e as are ones with tubular steel shafts rather than wood.

Buckled two tubular shafts to date - one tore in half.



--

Ineptocracy



(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

I find 'True Temper' tools of serviceable quality. A B&Q stainless steel bedding fork bent one of its tines very easily.

There is an astonishing amount of ****e tools on sale out there. People will buy on price

On 25/07/2013 08:23, fred wrote:


There is an astonishing amount of ****e tools on sale out there. People will buy on price


But these days higher price isn't necessarily an indicator of quality.
Even well known brand names have been flogged off to far east
manufacturers.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk