bert ] wrote:
In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
On 04/07/2013 11:45, Arfa Daily wrote:
[snip]

My daughter worked every spare hour in a business in Kingston

Jamaica?

All together - No she did it of her own accord.

She can afford a car?

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Thursday 04 July 2013 22:11 Vir Campestris wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 04/07/2013 10:05, Tim Watts wrote:
For comparison, for interest, in 1986 at York:

Fees were 100% covered for me.

Grant was £2100/year.
Room in halls was £21/week (30 weeks/year)
Dining was typically £1 per proper meal in college. Self catering was
available and you could mix as you wished.

Guinness was about 80p/pint

So bringing that upto date using the BoE inflation calc:

1986 grant in 2012 terms = £5211
1986 room per week = £52
Dining / cooked meal = £2.50
Guinness = £2

As a fellow Yorkie of an earlier vintage I might point out the rooms
aren't what they were. I went on a tour around James a few years back.
Most of the rooms were en-suite, and they provided proper cookers and
fridge freezers. As an inmate in Goodricke Cell Block C we had no
fridges (I bought one second hand in the end) shared showers & baths,
about 1 between 5, and a baby belling 2 ring cooker between about 20
people.

Andy

Indeed - I was careful to quote the cheapest rooms. I don't think the
pricelist I got £90 from were ensuite as ensuite were listed separately and
more expensive.

It's the conferences. They want nice rooms to let out over summer and
easter. They can then charge the students more because they are nice.

I was in Wentworh C block (aptly labelled "WC"). We have a fridge and 2 x 2
ring Baby Bellings between 17 people. And we did have 13A sockets - unlike
Wentworth A+B blocks who have 2A round pin off the lighting and spent their
entire time asking the porter to reset the breakers.

Do you remember the unpainted concrete block corridors in some places?

Wentworth Bar is now a multi faith prayer room...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 05/07/2013 07:21, Tim Watts wrote:
Do you remember the unpainted concrete block corridors in some places?

Goodricke C block was painted breeze blocks throughout. I don't
rememberany unpainted ones

Wentworth Bar is now a multi faith prayer room...

Well,never mind, there's another bar or size somewhere else. Though I
gather I couldn't even find Goodricke now, it's escaped! (to Hes West)

Andy

On 05/07/2013 07:21, Tim Watts wrote:
Do you remember the unpainted concrete block corridors in some places?

Goodricke C block was painted breeze blocks throughout. I don't
rememberany unpainted ones

Wentworth Bar is now a multi faith prayer room...

Well,never mind, there's another bar or six somewhere else. Though I
gather I couldn't even find Goodricke now, it's escaped! (to Hes West)

Andy

On 05/07/2013 01:26, Arfa Daily wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Thursday, July 4, 2013 11:45:58 AM UTC+1, Arfa Daily wrote:

she went to work for them full time, and is now a regional manager. She
hasn't picked up as much as a pencil since, so other than saying that
she
has a first class degree, the time spent was of little meaning ...

Sometimes true for real degrees too, unfortunately.


NT


I suppose you could argue that she would not have ended up with this
very good job with nice company car if she hadn't gone to the university
in the first place, but 30 grand and three years of your life is a lot
to pay for a job ...

Arfa

I remember watching students copying old masters in the National
Gallery. Couldn't quite see the point of that but the results were
stunning. Trainee forgers I reckon :-)

On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 14:45:57 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2013-07-05, Tim Watts wrote:

It's the conferences. They want nice rooms to let out over summer and
easter. They can then charge the students more because they are nice.

Actually, no. Apparently, the students want decent facilities now.

One big change is the massive growth in demand for self catering
facilities. Used to be that everyone wanted to eat in 'dining halls' and
not cook for themselves. That has changed dramatically and now it's hard
to get students to take rooms that don't have a fully equipped kitchen
nearby.



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On Friday, 5 July 2013 16:06:13 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 14:45:57 +0000, Huge wrote:



On 2013-07-05, Tim Watts wrote:



It's the conferences. They want nice rooms to let out over summer and

easter. They can then charge the students more because they are nice.



Actually, no. Apparently, the students want decent facilities now.



One big change is the massive growth in demand for self catering

facilities. Used to be that everyone wanted to eat in 'dining halls' and

not cook for themselves. That has changed dramatically and now it's hard

to get students to take rooms that don't have a fully equipped kitchen

nearby.

I don't think that is the reason, accomedation is expensive in London for everyone. As the college where I work have installed cafe after cafe for the students at what I see a inflated prices, we have scape living have built a complex for students why because we charge too much.
http://www.scapeliving.com/scape-east

studios flats £220PW !!!!!
well I think that's lot.

I work here I can;t fully justify the prices they charge, even at the students union. Budgens, sainsbury the co-op have all opened up local stores near us selling sandwiches. I used to spend an average of £6 for a round of sandwiches drink etc.. not I get pretty much the same for under £4.
2 years ago I asked teh student union why they charge £1.35 for an oasis drink while the local supermarkets charge 99p. Teh couldn;t comment other than saying the students union is subserdised %-0













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On Friday 05 July 2013 15:45 Huge wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 2013-07-05, Tim Watts wrote:

It's the conferences. They want nice rooms to let out over summer and
easter. They can then charge the students more because they are nice.

Actually, no. Apparently, the students want decent facilities now.


Who are these students? Most I know would have preferred cheap but sanitary
and warm and close (unlike much of the private student housing).

Unless you mean the few rich and the foreign students (who are often well
off). I think everyone would like a nice room, but given a choice of £45pw
and £90pw, pragmatism would come into play fairly quickly.

No problem with mixed grade accomodation, but leave a suitable number of
cheap "prison cells" in place...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Friday 05 July 2013 16:06 Bob Eager wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 14:45:57 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2013-07-05, Tim Watts wrote:

It's the conferences. They want nice rooms to let out over summer and
easter. They can then charge the students more because they are nice.

Actually, no. Apparently, the students want decent facilities now.

One big change is the massive growth in demand for self catering
facilities. Used to be that everyone wanted to eat in 'dining halls' and
not cook for themselves. That has changed dramatically and now it's hard
to get students to take rooms that don't have a fully equipped kitchen
nearby.


SC was popular in my day too. We often ate in college for convenience (and
it was cheap and sociable) but the option to cook was regularly exercised by
some and many more at the weekends (especially if "Open College" was the one
with the crap food!).

We did Xmas dinner for 20 people using 2 kitchens (so 2 baby belling ovens
including 4 rings) on a floor once (with the kind permission of the other
cooridor's inhabitents. And noone died

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 08:58:52 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 5 July 2013 16:06:13 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
One big change is the massive growth in demand for self catering

facilities. Used to be that everyone wanted to eat in 'dining halls'
and not cook for themselves. That has changed dramatically and now it's
hard to get students to take rooms that don't have a fully equipped
kitchen nearby.

I don't think that is the reason, accomedation is expensive in London
for everyone. As the college where I work have installed cafe after cafe
for the students at what I see a inflated prices, we have scape living
have built a complex for students why because we charge too much.
http://www.scapeliving.com/scape-east

studios flats £220PW !!!!!
well I think that's lot.

Maybe, but adding cooking facilities etc. is bound to increase rents even
if all else remains the same.

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On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 17:00:49 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On Friday 05 July 2013 15:45 Huge wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 2013-07-05, Tim Watts wrote:

It's the conferences. They want nice rooms to let out over summer and
easter. They can then charge the students more because they are nice.

Actually, no. Apparently, the students want decent facilities now.


Who are these students? Most I know would have preferred cheap but
sanitary and warm and close (unlike much of the private student
housing).

Unless you mean the few rich and the foreign students (who are often
well off). I think everyone would like a nice room, but given a choice
of £45pw and £90pw, pragmatism would come into play fairly quickly.

Yes, there's definitely a market for luxury stuff. Trouble is there is a
bit too much of it, so 'ordinary' folk find that's all that's left.

No problem with mixed grade accomodation, but leave a suitable number of
cheap "prison cells" in place...

Yes, I always say to applicants: "Do you want ensuite, or would you
prefer £20-ish extra in your pocket every week?" Bearing in mind that
when they move off campus they are very likely to be sharing "facilities"
anyway...

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Friday 05 July 2013 22:02 Huge wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 2013-07-05, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 05 July 2013 15:45 Huge wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 2013-07-05, Tim Watts wrote:

It's the conferences. They want nice rooms to let out over summer and
easter. They can then charge the students more because they are nice.

Actually, no. Apparently, the students want decent facilities now.


Who are these students?

The three children of a friend who went to Warwick, Sheffield & UKC. One
of them declined a place at UKC because of the accommodation.



Fair enough - but I cannot believe everyone takes the same view. unless the
fact they all end up with x0,000's dept means a little extra look slike a
drop in the ocean?
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Bob Eager wrote:


It's not enough, certainly if living away from home - but then the grant
never was either.

It was in my first year (1980~81). Indeed I remember sending a cheque
home for £40 (students keeping the parents[well mum anyway, nearly
broke her heart to ask her youngest for help] going eh) and I was a
great believer in 'I was there to study' so didn't drink much, didn't
"party" much, didn't have a part time job (well the first year anyway).

In message , Arfa Daily
writes


wrote in message
...
On Thursday, July 4, 2013 11:45:58 AM UTC+1, Arfa Daily wrote:

she went to work for them full time, and is now a regional manager. She
hasn't picked up as much as a pencil since, so other than saying that she
has a first class degree, the time spent was of little meaning ...

Sometimes true for real degrees too, unfortunately.


NT


I suppose you could argue that she would not have ended up with this
very good job with nice company car if she hadn't gone to the
university in the first place, but 30 grand and three years of your
life is a lot to pay for a job ...

Arfa
Not if the job brings you a lot extra than 30k - and the 3 years of your
life should not be wasted.
--
bert

In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"Steve Firth" wrote in message
-septemb
er.org...
Tim Watts wrote:

2/3 was the bit I thought parents ended up paying unless darling
Willoughby
was of a mind to take 3 part time MacDonalds and evening pub jobs
on to pay
his own way (which is one of the typical newspaper lines).

If its any help, my grandson whose parents make very little money
and who
can just about get by with assistance from the bank of mum and dad gets
nothing.

He pays his own way by working all weekend and most evenings as a
warehouseman in a cash and carry warehouse. He also works during
the week.
He's taking a computer science degree and I don't know how he finds the
time to study as well as support himself. His girlfriend is in much the
same boat. Her family aren't wealthy, living just above minimum
wage. She's
working most evenings in a fast food "restaurant" to pay her way.

-- €¢DarWin|
_/ _/


My daughter worked every spare hour in a business in Kingston, and
rose to the top even whilst still a student. After she got her degree
in fine art, she went to work for them full time, and is now a
regional manager. She hasn't picked up as much as a pencil since, so
other than saying that she has a first class degree, the time spent
was of little meaning ...

Arfa
There's more to a degree course than the technical content.
-- bert


Agreed, but she went on the course in the first place because she is a
very - and I really mean very - gifted artist. Much of the
non-technical course content - of which there was not much anyway - was
arty-farty bollox that she didn't agree with. She feels that overall,
from an educational point of view, the time and money was wasted, but
the life experience was valuable, and of course, she finished up with a
very good job at the end of it, allbeit not as a result of the degree
itself or anything that actually was learned from attendance at the
university ...

Arfa
The life experience matters a lot.
--
bert

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


wrote in message
...
On Thursday, July 4, 2013 11:45:58 AM UTC+1, Arfa Daily wrote:

she went to work for them full time, and is now a regional manager. She
hasn't picked up as much as a pencil since, so other than saying that
she
has a first class degree, the time spent was of little meaning ...

Sometimes true for real degrees too, unfortunately.


NT


I suppose you could argue that she would not have ended up with this very
good job with nice company car if she hadn't gone to the university in the
first place, but 30 grand and three years of your life is a lot to pay for
a job ...

Arfa
Not if the job brings you a lot extra than 30k -

which for 50%, it wont

tim

Adam wrote:
Do Mothers have this special memory that allows them to remember everything
that her kids have done wrong? And this is EVERYTHING from birth to present
day.

Yes.

Even if such things never happened and they have been told repeatedly by reputable third parties that such things never happened, mothers' memories are infallible.

I know bubble-wrap's cheaper than therapy, but I'm up to about 150 metres a day ;-)

Owain

On Thursday, July 4, 2013 8:57:36 PM UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
You mean she didn't tell of the time you kicked her bladder and she
wet herself walking down the High St?

Which time, ante-natal or post-natal?

Owain

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"Steve Firth" wrote in message
-septemb
er.org...
Tim Watts wrote:

2/3 was the bit I thought parents ended up paying unless darling
Willoughby
was of a mind to take 3 part time MacDonalds and evening pub jobs on
to pay
his own way (which is one of the typical newspaper lines).

If its any help, my grandson whose parents make very little money and
who
can just about get by with assistance from the bank of mum and dad
gets
nothing.

He pays his own way by working all weekend and most evenings as a
warehouseman in a cash and carry warehouse. He also works during the
week.
He's taking a computer science degree and I don't know how he finds
the
time to study as well as support himself. His girlfriend is in much
the
same boat. Her family aren't wealthy, living just above minimum wage.
She's
working most evenings in a fast food "restaurant" to pay her way.

-- €¢DarWin|
_/ _/


My daughter worked every spare hour in a business in Kingston, and rose
to the top even whilst still a student. After she got her degree in fine
art, she went to work for them full time, and is now a regional manager.
She hasn't picked up as much as a pencil since, so other than saying
that she has a first class degree, the time spent was of little meaning
...

Arfa
There's more to a degree course than the technical content.
-- bert


Agreed, but she went on the course in the first place because she is a
very - and I really mean very - gifted artist. Much of the non-technical
course content - of which there was not much anyway - was arty-farty
bollox that she didn't agree with. She feels that overall, from an
educational point of view, the time and money was wasted, but the life
experience was valuable, and of course, she finished up with a very good
job at the end of it, allbeit not as a result of the degree itself or
anything that actually was learned from attendance at the university ...

Arfa
The life experience matters a lot.
--
bert

Well, I suppose that you could argue that it *does*, yes, but that's hardly
the point, is it ? The number one point of going to university is to get
advanced level education in a subject that will hopefully provide you with a
career or career opportunities for the rest of your working life. The life
experience gained by living away from home and surviving on your own for
three years, *should* be secondary to this, and not the reason that you take
a loan for thirty grand. I obtained similar life experience at the same age,
for a lot less than £30k.

Arfa

In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"Steve Firth" wrote in message
-septemb
er.org...
Tim Watts wrote:

2/3 was the bit I thought parents ended up paying unless darling
Willoughby
was of a mind to take 3 part time MacDonalds and evening pub
jobs on to pay
his own way (which is one of the typical newspaper lines).

If its any help, my grandson whose parents make very little money
and who
can just about get by with assistance from the bank of mum and
dad gets
nothing.

He pays his own way by working all weekend and most evenings as a
warehouseman in a cash and carry warehouse. He also works during
the week.
He's taking a computer science degree and I don't know how he
finds the
time to study as well as support himself. His girlfriend is in
much the
same boat. Her family aren't wealthy, living just above minimum
wage. She's
working most evenings in a fast food "restaurant" to pay her way.

-- €¢DarWin|
_/ _/


My daughter worked every spare hour in a business in Kingston, and
rose to the top even whilst still a student. After she got her
degree in fine art, she went to work for them full time, and is now
a regional manager. She hasn't picked up as much as a pencil since,
so other than saying that she has a first class degree, the time
spent was of little meaning ...

Arfa
There's more to a degree course than the technical content.
-- bert


Agreed, but she went on the course in the first place because she is
a very - and I really mean very - gifted artist. Much of the
non-technical course content - of which there was not much anyway -
was arty-farty bollox that she didn't agree with. She feels that
overall, from an educational point of view, the time and money was
wasted, but the life experience was valuable, and of course, she
finished up with a very good job at the end of it, allbeit not as a
result of the degree itself or anything that actually was learned
from attendance at the university ...

Arfa
The life experience matters a lot.
-- bert

Well, I suppose that you could argue that it *does*, yes, but that's
hardly the point, is it ? The number one point of going to university
is to get advanced level education in a subject that will hopefully
provide you with a career or career opportunities for the rest of your
working life.
That is were the problem arises. Employers will always want more
candidates than there are vacancies. So if a university is just a
sausage factory there will always be those who fail to get a job in
their chosen subject. That used to be the difference between say an HND
and a degree, but you got the job first, then did the HND relevant to
that job.

University degrees are wide and varied but above all they demonstrate
your ability to absorb information analysis problems and eloquently
express solutions.

The life experience gained by living away from home and surviving on
your own for three years, *should* be secondary to this, and not the
reason that you take a loan for thirty grand. I obtained similar life
experience at the same age, for a lot less than £30k.

Arfa
Don't think of it as a £30k debt, think of it as an ongoing demand on
your revenue stream.
--
bert

Thought I would contribute to this since I am classed as an apprentice,
I get national minimum wage, not the apprentice wage. It goes up if
you're doing well at college and at work. As times goes on you're
trusted with more things, mistakes are allowed as long as you don't keep
making the same ones. I guess it differs from company to company.

I have only been doing it for 10 months but I am really enjoying it,
there is valuable experience to be gained and a lot to learn and its a
bonus having more money than practically all of my old class mates.

Ps. I couldn't find the original message on my Thunderbird.

--
David

"gremlin_95" wrote in message
...
Thought I would contribute to this since I am classed as an apprentice, I
get national minimum wage, not the apprentice wage. It goes up if you're
doing well at college and at work. As times goes on you're trusted with
more things, mistakes are allowed as long as you don't keep making the
same ones. I guess it differs from company to company.

I have only been doing it for 10 months but I am really enjoying it, there
is valuable experience to be gained and a lot to learn and its a bonus
having more money than practically all of my old class mates.

Ps. I couldn't find the original message on my Thunderbird.

--
David



How nice to see someone enjoying their time of learning and mentoring, and
also nice to see some youth here on the group to offset the jaded ramblings
of all us grumpy old farts ... :-)

I thoroughly enjoyed my time as an apprentice over 40 years ago now, and the
knowledge gained has been invaluable ever since. I also felt that it was a
great character building experience as well, although whether that is still
the case with all the health and safety and employment rights and so on, I
don't really know.

Stick with it, and soak up any experience and learning that anyone is
prepared to offer you, and you should end up with the 'tools' to keep you in
gainful employment for the rest of your life. Good luck to you. What trade
is it, by the way ?

Arfa

In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"gremlin_95" wrote in message
...
Thought I would contribute to this since I am classed as an
apprentice, I get national minimum wage, not the apprentice wage. It
goes up if you're doing well at college and at work. As times goes on
you're trusted with more things, mistakes are allowed as long as you
don't keep making the same ones. I guess it differs from company to company.

I have only been doing it for 10 months but I am really enjoying it,
there is valuable experience to be gained and a lot to learn and its
a bonus having more money than practically all of my old class mates.

How nice to see someone enjoying their time of learning and mentoring,
and also nice to see some youth here on the group to offset the jaded
ramblings of all us grumpy old farts ... :-)

AOL:-)

I thoroughly enjoyed my time as an apprentice over 40 years ago now,
and the knowledge gained has been invaluable ever since. I also felt
that it was a great character building experience as well, although
whether that is still the case with all the health and safety and
employment rights and so on, I don't really know.

Me too. The company had a large intake of apprentices each year. Some
said *cheap labour* but I think they needed to create their own skilled
labour source. The apprentice association was very active with regular
live music events and rugby football teams playing other local groups.
(regularly thrashed by Hawker Siddeley Aviation)!

Stick with it, and soak up any experience and learning that anyone is
prepared to offer you, and you should end up with the 'tools' to keep
you in gainful employment for the rest of your life. Good luck to you.
What trade is it, by the way ?

--
Tim Lamb

bert wrote:
University degrees are wide and varied but above all they demonstrate
your ability to absorb information analysis problems and eloquently
express solutions.

That used to be the case.

Some of the more recent graduates I've seen I'd rate as distinctly below O-Level in literacy and numeracy.

Owain

wrote in message
...
bert wrote:
University degrees are wide and varied but above all they demonstrate
your ability to absorb information analysis problems and eloquently
express solutions.

That used to be the case.

Some of the more recent graduates I've seen I'd rate as distinctly below
O-Level in literacy and numeracy.

Owain



+1

My daughter is pretty good on both, and has the degree to show for it, but I
would still say that neither the level of her literacy or numeracy compares
to what mine and my contemporaries was at GCE O level, let alone A level, a
little over 40 years ago ... I think that much of this comes from their
early experience in the education system. My other daughter had a form
teacher who couldn't spell during one year at junior school, and a maths
teacher who was two points to the left of useless during one of her
secondary school years.

Arfa

gremlin_95 wrote:
Thought I would contribute to this since I am classed as an
apprentice, I get national minimum wage, not the apprentice wage. It
goes up if you're doing well at college and at work. As times goes on
you're trusted with more things, mistakes are allowed as long as you
don't keep making the same ones. I guess it differs from company to
company.
I have only been doing it for 10 months but I am really enjoying it,
there is valuable experience to be gained and a lot to learn and its a
bonus having more money than practically all of my old class mates.

Ps. I couldn't find the original message on my Thunderbird.

It's a while since you made a post. How are you keeping mate?


Apprentices at our place get £3.00 per hour for their first year.
Second year apprentices are paid according to their ability. Of course when
they reach 19 they are paid at least the national minimum wage (some are
paid more than that before they reach 19).

I have had the new starter with me this week. It is not often I am placed
with them. He is quite bright, and for the first time in a long time I have
not minded having a new starter with me for more than one day.

--
Adam

On 09/07/2013 02:23, Arfa Daily wrote:


"gremlin_95" wrote in message
...
Thought I would contribute to this since I am classed as an
apprentice, I get national minimum wage, not the apprentice wage. It
goes up if you're doing well at college and at work. As times goes on
you're trusted with more things, mistakes are allowed as long as you
don't keep making the same ones. I guess it differs from company to
company.

I have only been doing it for 10 months but I am really enjoying it,
there is valuable experience to be gained and a lot to learn and its
a bonus having more money than practically all of my old class mates.

Ps. I couldn't find the original message on my Thunderbird.

--
David



How nice to see someone enjoying their time of learning and mentoring,
and also nice to see some youth here on the group to offset the jaded
ramblings of all us grumpy old farts ... :-)

I thoroughly enjoyed my time as an apprentice over 40 years ago now,
and the knowledge gained has been invaluable ever since. I also felt
that it was a great character building experience as well, although
whether that is still the case with all the health and safety and
employment rights and so on, I don't really know.

There is a lot of banter, those who can't take light hearted jokes/****
taking wouldn't survive

Stick with it, and soak up any experience and learning that anyone is
prepared to offer you, and you should end up with the 'tools' to keep
you in gainful employment for the rest of your life. Good luck to you.
What trade is it, by the way ?

Arfa
Thank you, the official name is 'Building Services Engineering', this
covers many bases but the contractor I work for specialise in mechanical
and electrical. I am mechanically biased, it's primarily an office based
role and you trial all departments to get a good idea of how it all
works - from winning work to managing a project on site right through to
final commissioning. At the end of your first 2 years training, you
choose a department which you enjoyed the most and one which you feel
you done well in. Estimating was an interesting experience but I am
enjoying my time in Design more and I'm looking forward to getting out
on site for testing and commissioning.

It lasts 4 years, at the end you will be qualified to HNC level.

--
David

On 09/07/2013 08:53, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"gremlin_95" wrote in message
...
Thought I would contribute to this since I am classed as an
apprentice, I get national minimum wage, not the apprentice wage.
It goes up if you're doing well at college and at work. As times
goes on you're trusted with more things, mistakes are allowed as
long as you don't keep making the same ones. I guess it differs
from company to company.

I have only been doing it for 10 months but I am really enjoying it,
there is valuable experience to be gained and a lot to learn and
its a bonus having more money than practically all of my old class
mates.

How nice to see someone enjoying their time of learning and
mentoring, and also nice to see some youth here on the group to
offset the jaded ramblings of all us grumpy old farts ... :-)

AOL:-)

I thoroughly enjoyed my time as an apprentice over 40 years ago now,
and the knowledge gained has been invaluable ever since. I also felt
that it was a great character building experience as well, although
whether that is still the case with all the health and safety and
employment rights and so on, I don't really know.

Me too. The company had a large intake of apprentices each year. Some
said *cheap labour* but I think they needed to create their own
skilled labour source. The apprentice association was very active with
regular live music events and rugby football teams playing other local
groups. (regularly thrashed by Hawker Siddeley Aviation)!

I think this company likes taking on young people; many of the young
people stay on after completing their 4 years and some older people in
the company done the very same training years ago.


--
David

In message , Arfa Daily
writes
My daughter is pretty good on both, and has the degree to show for it,
but I would still say that neither the level of her literacy or
numeracy compares to what mine and my contemporaries was at GCE O
level, let alone A level, a little over 40 years ago ... I think that
much of this comes from their early experience in the education system.
My other daughter had a form teacher who couldn't spell during one year
at junior school, and a maths teacher who was two points to the left of
useless during one of her secondary school years.



Sadly not a new phenomena. Back in the mid 70s we had a geography
teacher was next to useless. We never found out if she could teach
because the poor lass was incapable of keeping the class under control
long enough to put anything across. I suspect it was her first job.


Adrian
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On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 20:34:00 +0100, gremlin_95 wrote:

At the end of your first 2 years training, you choose a department which
you enjoyed the most and one which you feel you done well in.

"... and one which you feel you *did* well in."

I think this company likes taking on young people; many of the young
people stay on after completing their 4 years and some older people in
the company done the very same training years ago.

"... some older people in the company *did* the very same training
years ago."

What was that about making the same mistake twice? B-)

http://proofreading.ie/portfolio/usi...one-correctly/

I get lost just over half way down the page but I got all the test
questions at the end correct. Some of the other "forums" explaining
the usage are rather odd and the posts contain other grammatical
errors. Which if I can spot are pretty basic, really inspires
confidence...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"gremlin_95" wrote in message
...
On 09/07/2013 02:23, Arfa Daily wrote:


"gremlin_95" wrote in message
...
Thought I would contribute to this since I am classed as an apprentice,
I get national minimum wage, not the apprentice wage. It goes up if
you're doing well at college and at work. As times goes on you're
trusted with more things, mistakes are allowed as long as you don't keep
making the same ones. I guess it differs from company to company.

I have only been doing it for 10 months but I am really enjoying it,
there is valuable experience to be gained and a lot to learn and its a
bonus having more money than practically all of my old class mates.

Ps. I couldn't find the original message on my Thunderbird.

--
David



How nice to see someone enjoying their time of learning and mentoring,
and also nice to see some youth here on the group to offset the jaded
ramblings of all us grumpy old farts ... :-)

I thoroughly enjoyed my time as an apprentice over 40 years ago now, and
the knowledge gained has been invaluable ever since. I also felt that it
was a great character building experience as well, although whether that
is still the case with all the health and safety and employment rights
and so on, I don't really know.

There is a lot of banter, those who can't take light hearted jokes/****
taking wouldn't survive

Stick with it, and soak up any experience and learning that anyone is
prepared to offer you, and you should end up with the 'tools' to keep you
in gainful employment for the rest of your life. Good luck to you. What
trade is it, by the way ?

Arfa
Thank you, the official name is 'Building Services Engineering', this
covers many bases but the contractor I work for specialise in mechanical
and electrical. I am mechanically biased, it's primarily an office based
role and you trial all departments to get a good idea of how it all
works - from winning work to managing a project on site right through to
final commissioning. At the end of your first 2 years training, you choose
a department which you enjoyed the most and one which you feel you done
well in. Estimating was an interesting experience but I am enjoying my
time in Design more and I'm looking forward to getting out on site for
testing and commissioning.

It lasts 4 years, at the end you will be qualified to HNC level.

--
David



Excellent ! Sounds like a very comprehensive scheme, and that you are doing
well in it. My apprenticeship was 5 years, and the qualification at the end
of it was a City & Guilds one. Back then, part of the whole process was to
put you back in your place, after you had risen to the top at school. Some
apprentices just never 'got it' and were completely unable to take the
'humbling' that the process demanded. It was our place to make tea for
everyone, to sweep up and clear up, to fetch and carry for the 'proper'
workers, and so on. The first premises that I worked in was a pair of
semi-detached houses that had been knocked together. Between them was a
small yard that had been completely closed in so that there was no access to
it. In the middle was a drain, and a couple of drainpipes from the roof
emptied into the yard. Of course, the drain used to get bunged up and the
yard flooded. When this happened, I would have to go upstairs with a couple
of the blokes, tie a piece of muslin around my face that had been sprayed
with Crusair I think it was called, and then be lowered by rope into the
yard with a stick to poke at the drain until the water ran away. This sort
of thing was seen as great character building, and for sure, it did me no
harm and won me a lot of brownie points with the bosses.

I don't suppose such things would be permitted now though ... :-)

Arfa

gremlin_95 writes:

[.......................stuff deleted for brevity]

Thank you, the official name is 'Building Services Engineering', this
covers many bases but the contractor I work for specialise in mechanical
and electrical. I am mechanically biased, it's primarily an office based
role and you trial all departments to get a good idea of how it all
works - from winning work to managing a project on site right through to
final commissioning. At the end of your first 2 years training, you
choose a department which you enjoyed the most and one which you feel
you done well in. Estimating was an interesting experience but I am
enjoying my time in Design more and I'm looking forward to getting out
on site for testing and commissioning.

It lasts 4 years, at the end you will be qualified to HNC level.

You sound very bright, but that just makes the little slip-ups stand
out more.
I know that instead of saying "I did" many young folk say "I dun this"
and "I dun that" (and up here it's more likely to be "Ah dun this"),
but it isn't English and if you want to make a good impression it's
best to avoid that in anything you write.

It shouldn't really matter, so long as your meaning gets across, but
some people will unfairly judge you for it.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

In article , Adrian
scribeth thus
In message , Arfa Daily
writes
My daughter is pretty good on both, and has the degree to show for it,
but I would still say that neither the level of her literacy or
numeracy compares to what mine and my contemporaries was at GCE O
level, let alone A level, a little over 40 years ago ... I think that
much of this comes from their early experience in the education system.
My other daughter had a form teacher who couldn't spell during one year
at junior school, and a maths teacher who was two points to the left of
useless during one of her secondary school years.



Sadly not a new phenomena. Back in the mid 70s we had a geography
teacher was next to useless. We never found out if she could teach
because the poor lass was incapable of keeping the class under control
long enough to put anything across. I suspect it was her first job.


Adrian

SWMBO is a teacher and we once had a party for the children some years
ago. The children there were rather unruly until she got there a bit
late. I don't know quite how she did it but in a -very- short space of
time they were perfectly still and most remarkably -Quiet- as church
mice..

Its a skill I suppose.. She said that if you show them the slightest
weakness you've lost it, control that is, and when that happens you
cannot teach properly...

--
Tony Sayer

Sadly not a new phenomena. Back in the mid 70s we had a geography
teacher was next to useless. We never found out if she could teach
because the poor lass was incapable of keeping the class under control
long enough to put anything across. I suspect it was her first job.


Adrian

SWMBO is a teacher and we once had a party for the children some years
ago. The children there were rather unruly until she got there a bit
late. I don't know quite how she did it but in a -very- short space of
time they were perfectly still and most remarkably -Quiet- as church
mice..

Its a skill I suppose.. She said that if you show them the slightest
weakness you've lost it, control that is, and when that happens you
cannot teach properly...

--
Tony Sayer



I would say that is true. It is possible to set a tone of 'authority' in
your voice that somehow just controls children. I see kids running riot all
the time in supermarkets and so on, and the young mothers doing their level
best to control them, with absolutely zero success. When I see this, I feel
for the teachers that have a class full of the same, especially if they
themselves don't have this ability to exude authority. We controlled the
behaviour of our three children with nothing more than voice, and they have
either learnt it from us or instinctively have the same ability, as both
daughters now have small children, and are able to keep them from running
riot just by voice, even though the children are too small to properly speak
yet.

Arfa

On Wednesday, 10 July 2013 12:50:23 UTC+1, Arfa Daily wrote:






Sadly not a new phenomena. Back in the mid 70s we had a geography

teacher was next to useless. We never found out if she could teach

because the poor lass was incapable of keeping the class under control

long enough to put anything across. I suspect it was her first job.





Adrian



SWMBO is a teacher and we once had a party for the children some years

ago. The children there were rather unruly until she got there a bit

late. I don't know quite how she did it but in a -very- short space of

time they were perfectly still and most remarkably -Quiet- as church

mice..



Its a skill I suppose.. She said that if you show them the slightest

weakness you've lost it, control that is, and when that happens you

cannot teach properly...



--

Tony Sayer







I would say that is true. It is possible to set a tone of 'authority' in

your voice that somehow just controls children. I see kids running riot all

the time in supermarkets and so on, and the young mothers doing their level

best to control them, with absolutely zero success.

I've seen that but perhaps the answers aren't on their phone after all.


When I see this, I feel

for the teachers that have a class full of the same, especially if they

themselves don't have this ability to exude authority. We controlled the

behaviour of our three children with nothing more than voice,

I can do the same with my cat most of the time.

and they have

either learnt it from us or instinctively have the same ability, as both

daughters now have small children, and are able to keep them from running

riot just by voice, even though the children are too small to properly speak

yet.

Actions speak louder than words and the pen is only mightier than the sword if you have money.

On 10/07/2013 12:50 Arfa Daily wrote:

It is possible to set a tone of 'authority' in
your voice that somehow just controls children.

Voice and/or facial expression. Having done it for 34 years, I'm pleased
to say that after 10 years out of teaching I've not lost it!.

I see kids running riot
all the time in supermarkets and so on, and the young mothers doing
their level best to control them, with absolutely zero success.

Generalisation coming up... and it's those mothers who shout the loudest
(like they do when they f and blind at their kids in the supermarket)
when schools try to bring some discipline to their offspring.

--
F

On 09/07/2013 22:54, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 20:34:00 +0100, gremlin_95 wrote:

At the end of your first 2 years training, you choose a department which
you enjoyed the most and one which you feel you done well in.
"... and one which you feel you *did* well in."

I think this company likes taking on young people; many of the young
people stay on after completing their 4 years and some older people in
the company done the very same training years ago.
"... some older people in the company *did* the very same training
years ago."

What was that about making the same mistake twice? B-)

http://proofreading.ie/portfolio/usi...one-correctly/

I get lost just over half way down the page but I got all the test
questions at the end correct. Some of the other "forums" explaining
the usage are rather odd and the posts contain other grammatical
errors. Which if I can spot are pretty basic, really inspires
confidence...

Thank for that, the 'did' or 'done' thing has always confused me, I do
not remember learning about it in school!

--
David

F wrote:
On 10/07/2013 12:50 Arfa Daily wrote:

It is possible to set a tone of 'authority' in
your voice that somehow just controls children.

Voice and/or facial expression. Having done it for 34 years, I'm
pleased to say that after 10 years out of teaching I've not lost it!.

I see kids running riot
all the time in supermarkets and so on, and the young mothers doing
their level best to control them, with absolutely zero success.

Generalisation coming up... and it's those mothers who shout the
loudest (like they do when they f and blind at their kids in the
supermarket) when schools try to bring some discipline to their
offspring.

F'ing and blinding never works. I just used to lock the gf's lad in the car
if he was being a ****.

The last time all three of us went shopping the gf locked both me and her
son in the car whilst she finished the shopping. She is of the opinion the I
should not climb into a shopping trolley and let him push me down the
supermarket aisle as fast as he can.

And I have also been told not to encourage her son to put random shopping
items into other shoppers trolleys when they are not looking.

Would you give me a scary look?:-)

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
F wrote:
On 10/07/2013 12:50 Arfa Daily wrote:

It is possible to set a tone of 'authority' in
your voice that somehow just controls children.

Voice and/or facial expression. Having done it for 34 years, I'm
pleased to say that after 10 years out of teaching I've not lost it!.

I see kids running riot
all the time in supermarkets and so on, and the young mothers doing
their level best to control them, with absolutely zero success.

Generalisation coming up... and it's those mothers who shout the
loudest (like they do when they f and blind at their kids in the
supermarket) when schools try to bring some discipline to their
offspring.

F'ing and blinding never works. I just used to lock the gf's lad in the
car if he was being a ****.

The last time all three of us went shopping the gf locked both me and her
son in the car whilst she finished the shopping. She is of the opinion the
I should not climb into a shopping trolley and let him push me down the
supermarket aisle as fast as he can.

And I have also been told not to encourage her son to put random shopping
items into other shoppers trolleys when they are not looking.

Would you give me a scary look?:-)

--
Adam

Nope ! You're beyond scary looks. It's a smacked bum for you Adam ... :-)

Arfa

On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 01:37:23 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

"ARW" wrote in message
...
F wrote:
On 10/07/2013 12:50 Arfa Daily wrote:

It is possible to set a tone of 'authority' in your voice that
somehow just controls children.

Voice and/or facial expression. Having done it for 34 years, I'm
pleased to say that after 10 years out of teaching I've not lost it!.

I see kids running riot all the time in supermarkets and so on, and
the young mothers doing their level best to control them, with
absolutely zero success.

Generalisation coming up... and it's those mothers who shout the
loudest (like they do when they f and blind at their kids in the
supermarket) when schools try to bring some discipline to their
offspring.

F'ing and blinding never works. I just used to lock the gf's lad in the
car if he was being a ****.

The last time all three of us went shopping the gf locked both me and
her son in the car whilst she finished the shopping. She is of the
opinion the I should not climb into a shopping trolley and let him push
me down the supermarket aisle as fast as he can.

And I have also been told not to encourage her son to put random
shopping items into other shoppers trolleys when they are not looking.

Would you give me a scary look?:-)

--
Adam

Nope ! You're beyond scary looks. It's a smacked bum for you Adam ...
:-)

Are you sure that would be a punishment and not an incentive?

:-)

--
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My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor