What is the going rate for a journeyman carpenter,( midwest) thats working
for himself, not a big construction company.

I live in a 10 yr old ranch, and want the hip roof of the house extented
over my deck( 16X14). To include gutters, soffit, 2 flood lights on the
support posts( 6X6's).

I figured $1400 lumber and roofing, I figured $450 for sublet ( gutters and
the electrician) I figured it would take 80 hrs of labor @$30.00 ,and thats
16 per hr more in my opnion than it should.

My bid so far $6800.00 I figured about $4500.00 tops.

Thanks

Tom

You " Figure" 14 an hr is all they are worth.! You also figure they pay
their compensation, liability, vehicle , insurance , right. And be
lisenced and bonded. So why are you asking. Go hire someone if you can.
You with what you dont know you will probably get a hack or pay 3x that
I figure the work wont get done.
AT 14 hr he is lucky to clear 7 , Wake the F up.

"twfsa" wrote in message

I figured it would take 80 hrs of labor @$30.00 ,and thats 16 per hr
more in my opnion than it should.
Tom

You should take a carpentry course and do it yourself because no one will
meet your expectations. No tradesman can work for $30 an hour and exist in
business.

You are forgetting the cost of insurance, benefits, truck, tools, taxes,
licensing fees, many other things that are real cost that must be paid.

I'd charge about $60/hour for it. If you want my services through my
company, it is $1000 a day plus expenses.
Ed

"twfsa" wrote in message
news:yVCZc.17622$Ka6.5487@okepread03...
What is the going rate for a journeyman carpenter,( midwest) thats working
for himself, not a big construction company.

I live in a 10 yr old ranch, and want the hip roof of the house extented
over my deck( 16X14). To include gutters, soffit, 2 flood lights on the
support posts( 6X6's).

I figured $1400 lumber and roofing, I figured $450 for sublet ( gutters
and
the electrician) I figured it would take 80 hrs of labor @$30.00 ,and
thats
16 per hr more in my opnion than it should.

My bid so far $6800.00 I figured about $4500.00 tops.

Thanks



So get more bids. If you find one lower, balance that against the
likelihood that he can afford to warranty and insure himself against
liability if he damages your house.

$6,800 sounds like a good deal. You are checking his references and
requesting a certificate of insurance, right?

Your expectations of the cost of doing this type of business are
unrealistic.

Will Niccolls

thats 16 per hr more in my opnion than it should.

Welcome to the new millenium. You have been in a coma since 1965, right, Rip
Van Winkle?
I'd bet a bunch that your little project will take twice as long and cost about
double what you think it will. Only elephants work for peanuts.

Joe

You can't read I said $30.00 per hr.

Tom
"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
You " Figure" 14 an hr is all they are worth.! You also figure they pay
their compensation, liability, vehicle , insurance , right. And be
lisenced and bonded. So why are you asking. Go hire someone if you can.
You with what you dont know you will probably get a hack or pay 3x that
I figure the work wont get done.
AT 14 hr he is lucky to clear 7 , Wake the F up.

Ed .

At $ 60 per hour you would be starving and on food stamps.




"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:28FZc.1673$vx6.912@trndny05...

"twfsa" wrote in message

I figured it would take 80 hrs of labor @$30.00 ,and thats 16 per hr
more in my opinion than it should.
Tom

You should take a carpentry course and do it yourself because no one will
meet your expectations. No tradesman can work for $30 an hour and exist
in business.

If I had the talent, and could do quaility carpenter work @$30/hr I would do
it all day long!!!! You have to be competive if you are in business for
yourself. Includeing tools, truck, insurance,bla bla bla.

Labor here in the midwest is Electricians charge $35/ hr that s on a service
call to the house, Plumbers I believe the last time I read an article in the
newspaper stated that they were earning $26. These are union scale.


You are forgetting the cost of insurance, benefits, truck, tools, taxes,
licensing fees, many other things that are real cost that must be paid.

Those extra's taxes, everybody pays..tools, truck,licensing fees,are wrote
off at tax time.

I'd charge about $60/hour for it. If you want my services through my
company, it is $1000 a day plus expenses

There are a few dummys in this world that would pay you $60/hr.

After discussing the bid with the contractor this morning on the phone,
explaining what I figured material and labor should cost, he dropped his bid
$800. I told him I would get a few more bids, 15 minutes later he called and
said he could do the job for $5000.00. I'll sign that contract, I still
believe its a bit high, but the guy works his ass off, and does good work.


Tom





Ed

I'll bet your auto repair technician loves it when you roll your vehicle
into his shop.

Hey Joe, do you ever look back in your rear view mirror after you leave his
shop? Are the tech's all standing there grining and laughing?

My contract will state a start and finish day pending weather, paided in
full only when the job is complete.

I'll pay whats fair and not a penny more, why would you pay more than the
job is worth.

Overcharges I leave that to guys that have no idea whats going on Joe.

Tom



Joe Bobst" wrote in message
...
thats 16 per hr more in my opnion than it should.

Welcome to the new millenium. You have been in a coma since 1965, right,
Rip
Van Winkle?
I'd bet a bunch that your little project will take twice as long and cost
about
double what you think it will. Only elephants work for peanuts.

Joe

Pay peanuts get monkees!!

From: "twfsa"

What is the going rate for a journeyman carpenter,( midwest) thats working
for himself, not a big construction company.

Why is it you think the size of the company should have ANY bearing on what a
person makes or costs?

I figured it would take 80 hrs of labor @$30.00 ,and thats
16 per hr more in my opnion than it should.

You thinks a carpenter should work for 14.00 an hour? A Target cashier makes
9.50. And that's a "big" company.

30.00 an hour, after taxes, benefits, insurance, overhead, tools, advertizing,
etc. is less than what you figure a carpenter "should" make.

My bid so far $6800.00 I figured about $4500.00 tops.

Problem is you think like you're hiring the carpenter as an employer.

"twfsa" wrote in message
What is the going rate for a journeyman carpenter,( midwest) thats working
for himself, not a big construction company.

I live in a 10 yr old ranch, and want the hip roof of the house extented
over my deck( 16X14). To include gutters, soffit, 2 flood lights on the
support posts( 6X6's).

I figured $1400 lumber and roofing, I figured $450 for sublet ( gutters
and
the electrician) I figured it would take 80 hrs of labor @$30.00 ,and
thats
16 per hr more in my opnion than it should.

My bid so far $6800.00 I figured about $4500.00 tops.

Thanks

Tom

I recently retired as a journeyman carpenter. Earlier this year I was
making $26.53 an hr plus bennies. My pay stub would show what my hourly
rate was with insurances. Mind you this didn't include bennies such as
holiday pay or what they had to pay for worker's compensation. They shown
it cost them $160 something a week for insurances they paid. So tack on $4
or so an hour for bennies. They provided a company vehicle, had a shop, all
the unforeseen overhead which self employed also have. They supplied tools
except for the hand tools. Plus they had to make a profit to stay in
business. I was told for my labor they charged $130.00 per hr.

I know many in the trades, some self employed. They tell me it costs them
they must charge $60 per man hr, and this is for helpers also. This is for
the self employed.

I recently had some estimates for landscaping, I wanted to know how much per
hr. because I would be adding as we go. Such as additional mulch, trees &
shrubs. It is interesting all four companies which quoted T&M was between
$32 & $38 per man hour. These were not your landscapers with degrees for
designing etc., these were your typical lawn care companies.

I believe you will get what you pay for, when it comes to a journeyman. I
couldn't fathom the thought of paying for my vehicle, tools, insurances,
advertising, business related expenses and try to make money on a mere $30
per hr. I don't know if it would be even possible to make any money to put
in your pocket.

I am!
"HA HA Budys Here" wrote in message
...
From: "twfsa"

What is the going rate for a journeyman carpenter,( midwest) thats working
for himself, not a big construction company.

Why is it you think the size of the company should have ANY bearing on
what a
person makes or costs?

I figured it would take 80 hrs of labor @$30.00 ,and thats
16 per hr more in my opnion than it should.

You thinks a carpenter should work for 14.00 an hour? A Target cashier
makes
9.50. And that's a "big" company.

30.00 an hour, after taxes, benefits, insurance, overhead, tools,
advertizing,
etc. is less than what you figure a carpenter "should" make.

My bid so far $6800.00 I figured about $4500.00 tops.

Problem is you think like you're hiring the carpenter as an employer.

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:03:16 -0500, "twfsa" scribbled
this interesting note:

Problem is you think like you're hiring the carpenter as an employer.

I am!

No, you're not. You are hiring a craftsman and paying him for his
experience and expertise for a specific project you want completed. He
is his own employee as he pays his wages out of whatever is left over
after paying for all his work related expenses which include
everything everyone else has said, not to mention paying into his
retirement account, his medical insurance, and all the other benefits
most employers pay their employees.

You may be hiring a carpenter, but that falls far short of making him
your employee.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

I recently retired as a journeyman carpenter. Earlier this year I was
making $26.53 an hr plus bennies. My pay stub would show what my hourly
rate was with insurances. Mind you this didn't include bennies such as
holiday pay or what they had to pay for worker's compensation. They shown
it cost them $160 something a week for insurances they paid. So tack on
$4
or so an hour for bennies. They provided a company vehicle, had a shop,
all
the unforeseen overhead which self employed also have. They supplied
tools
except for the hand tools. Plus they had to make a profit to stay in
business. I was told for my labor they charged $130.00 per hr.

I know many in the trades, some self employed. They tell me it costs them
they must charge $60 per man hr, and this is for helpers also. This is for
the self employed.

I recently had some estimates for landscaping, I wanted to know how much
per
hr. because I would be adding as we go. Such as additional mulch, trees &
shrubs. It is interesting all four companies which quoted T&M was between
$32 & $38 per man hour. These were not your landscapers with degrees for
designing etc., these were your typical lawn care companies.

I believe you will get what you pay for, when it comes to a journeyman. I
couldn't fathom the thought of paying for my vehicle, tools, insurances,
advertising, business related expenses and try to make money on a mere $30
per hr. I don't know if it would be even possible to make any money to
put
in your pocket.

I just hired two carpenters to make steps from the top of the river bank to
the bottom. 42 steps..a run of about 44 ft. They charged me $29 per hour
for two men...I agree they couldn't be making any money at $14.50 each per
hour but they quoted the price and came well recommended. I didn't quibble
as there was no way I could do the job, having fallen head first off the
pier at the bottom, 8 foot into the river bank a couple of weeks before and
messed up my back. I did figure they doubled the cost of the lumber but
still no problem with me as they had to pick it up and haul it to the job
site. And as my Teamster son said, he makes $29 per hour by himself. This
was in very Northern Illinois, by the way.

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:03:16 -0500, "twfsa" scribbled
this interesting note:

Problem is you think like you're hiring the carpenter as an employer.

I am!


When you hire a craftsman, it is different than hiring a grunt to clean your
garage or dig a ditch. With the grunt, you tell him every little thing you
want him to do and how you want him to do it. As he goes along his merry
way, if he isn't doing it up to snuff, you cut him loose. Most of the time,
you have to stand there, or they stop working.

When you hire a craftsman, you tell him the end result you want him to
accomplish. You may outline some of the parameters of the work, but by and
large if he is a real craftsman, he knows how to do his job, and other than
color and size and style, you don't have to tell him much.

Some people have a problem because they tell a craftsman what they want,
then if the craftsman does it in a short time, they crow about the "hourly"
rate being too high. No mention that yesterday, the basement was flooded,
excrement was backing up into the house, and the dogs wouldn't even come
inside. They wail, "But it only took you four hours to snake the pipe and
get the basement drained!" They forget about how bad the situation was 24
hours ago, and completely discount the years it took to learn what to do and
how to do it.

You can't have it both ways. Either you hire a guy by the hour and stand
and watch him work, or you hire a craftsman and turn him loose. You hold
the craftsman accountable at the end, but you don't hang over him.

If I were the craftsman who was being questioned here, I would suddenly be
too busy to take this job. The "employer" is going to bitch about
everything from the brand of nails on down.

Steve

"Bonehenge" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 23:24:35 -0500, "Tom"
wrote:


I just hired two carpenters to make steps from the top of the river bank
to
the bottom. 42 steps..a run of about 44 ft. They charged me $29 per
hour
for two men...I agree they couldn't be making any money at $14.50 each
per
hour but they quoted the price and came well recommended.

They sound like people working under the table.

Barry
Could be, but they took a check so if they are, there'll be a paper trail
for the IRS

"twfsa"

After discussing the bid with the contractor this morning on the phone,
explaining what I figured material and labor should cost, he dropped his
bid
$800. I told him I would get a few more bids, 15 minutes later he called
and
said he could do the job for $5000.00. I'll sign that contract, I still
believe its a bit high, but the guy works his ass off, and does good work.


Sounds like you got a good deal. If you were in a higher price area I'd say
you're taking a big risk but maybe in the midwest things are very cheap.

Is he buying the lumber, roofing materials, and paying the subcontractors
for that amount? Is he a liscensed contractor? Is he paying for the
building permit out that price? Does he carry liability insurance?

Carpentry is one of those trades where you can always find some young guy
who might even be decent at what he does to take a job for not very much
money. And there are plenty of homeowners that think paying someone more
than the young guy to take the job means they are a sucker. But in the long
run that young guy will learn its no longer worth it to do a good job and
show up on time and return calls and use sharp blades and keep his brakes
maintained and his insurance paid and work hard and fix mistakes that show
up a few weeks after the job is finished.

More rarely you'll find extremely fast and high quality craftsmen that can
do the job for a cheap price because they are so good. But that's rare
because they don't need to work cheaply.

Will Niccolls

twsbuka You Said 30$ hr is 16 MORE than you think it should beeeeeee.
So you think 14 is a real wage !!!

Learn to read your own stupid **** twsbubba and wake the F up

Your right I am sorry I meant that I though it should take 16 hrs less to do
the job.

Tom
"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
twsbuka You Said 30$ hr is 16 MORE than you think it should beeeeeee.
So you think 14 is a real wage !!!

Learn to read your own stupid **** twsbubba and wake the F up

"twfsa" wrote in message
news:5x5_c.18974$Ka6.18259@okepread03...
Your right I am sorry I meant that I though it should take 16 hrs less to
do
the job.

Tom

Been following and not posting. This reply makes you look a little more
reasonable.

I still think you $30 figure is way out of line for the cost of doing
business in USA today especially for a job that will require at least two
people.

Your $6800 bid if from a licensed insured contractor is your best bet.


Colbyt

He can read. You cannot think. You said that was 16 hr. more than you
thought a carpenter was worth.
You are a slave driving capitalist scum sucking maggot.
I can only hope for a civil war so I could legally kill people like you
and get the freedom and respect I deserve.

Death to the christian jew cop government


"twfsa" wrote in message
news:N8MZc.17860$Ka6.5956@okepread03...
You can't read I said $30.00 per hr.

Tom
"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
You " Figure" 14 an hr is all they are worth.! You also figure they
pay
their compensation, liability, vehicle , insurance , right. And be
lisenced and bonded. So why are you asking. Go hire someone if you
can.
You with what you dont know you will probably get a hack or pay 3x
that
I figure the work wont get done.
AT 14 hr he is lucky to clear 7 , Wake the F up.

The only thing you can do is get bids and ck refrences. When I get cheap
bids I often get ripped off. The last guy I hired I found out to late he
was a con. Check court records besides alot of refrences. The guy I hire
lost 17 cases since 2000 and provided fake lisence amd insurance papers,
He used " White Out" and copied them. Check with the insurance co and
city to verify everything. There are a lot of hacks out there that dont
know diddly.

We live in a capitalistic society where work is based upon supply and
demand . Good guys dont come cheap. Cheap guys can give you major
problems.

The courts are full of cases of hacks , hacking up jobs. Do your
homework so you dont become a statistic.

A fair price is what your market dictates, not what you feel is fair.
NY city may be 7x more more than Nowhere USA.

Good luck, get someone good.