So you think that Union labor controls the economy.It is not labor
but
greed.

It is about Greed,.......
Greed of the ceo's,Greed of the U.S. Politicians.


If China's wages rise 8% annually for the next five years, says a
Boston Consulting Group study, the average factory hand will still
earn just $1.30 an hour by then.


Wage gap closing . . . very slowly
All U.S. workers need to do is be patient, and soon the wage gap that
has sent so many U.S. jobs overseas to low-cost countries such China
and India will be gone.


Yep, if U.S. workers -- or their children -- just wait a little while
longer, then after a mere 32 more years of 10% raises, a Chinese
worker making $100 a month -- well above the current official minimum
wage of $87 a month, I admit -- will have closed the wage gap now
separating the Chinese worker from the U.S. worker making $2,000 a
month.


That assumes, of course, that the U.S. worker will not have received
a
single raise in those 32 years. If the U.S. worker has averaged even
a
3.5% annual raise, the Chinese worker will need 50 years to close the
wage gap


Millwright Ron


www.unionmillwright.com

On Mar 7, 12:06*pm, Millwright Ron wrote:
So you think that Union labor controls the economy.It is not labor
but
greed.

It is about Greed,.......
Greed of the ceo's,Greed of the U.S. Politicians.

If China's wages rise 8% annually for the next five years, says a
Boston Consulting Group study, the average factory hand will still
earn just $1.30 an hour by then.

Wage gap closing . . . very slowly
All U.S. workers need to do is be patient, and soon the wage gap that
has sent so many U.S. jobs overseas to low-cost countries such China
and India will be gone.

Yep, if U.S. workers -- or their children -- just wait a little while
longer, then after a mere 32 more years of 10% raises, a Chinese
worker making $100 a month -- well above the current official minimum
wage of $87 a month, I admit -- will have closed the wage gap now
separating the Chinese worker from the U.S. worker making $2,000 a
month.

That assumes, of course, that the U.S. worker will not have received
a
single raise in those 32 years. If the U.S. worker has averaged even
a
3.5% annual raise, the Chinese worker will need 50 years to close the
wage gap

Millwright Ron

www.unionmillwright.com




And then, finally, some companies are handling the rise in wages in
countries such as China and India by moving operations to even lower-
wage "platforms" such as Vietnam. Intel (INTC, news, msgs), for
example, has decided to open a major test and assembly plant outside
of Ho Chi Minh City. Vietnam beat out China, Malaysia and the
Philippines in the contest for the 1,200-worker plant.

Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com

Millwright Ron wrote:

On Mar 7, 12:06 pm, Millwright Ron wrote:
So you think that Union


Yawn.... ... .. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz


--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!

On Mar 7, 1:28*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Millwright Ron wrote:

On Mar 7, 12:06 pm, Millwright Ron wrote:
So you think that Union

* *Yawn.... ... .. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!


In 2005, an average Chief Executive Officer (CEO) was paid 821 times
as much as a minimum wage earner, who earns just $5.15 per hour. An
average CEO earns more before lunchtime on the very first day of work
in the year than a minimum wage worker earns all year.

"total overall labor costs" and not "unit labor costs."
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com

"Millwright Ron" wrote in message
...
On Mar 7, 1:28 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Millwright Ron wrote:

On Mar 7, 12:06 pm, Millwright Ron wrote:
So you think that Union

Yawn.... ... .. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!


In 2005, an average Chief Executive Officer (CEO) was paid 821 times
as much as a minimum wage earner, who earns just $5.15 per hour. An
average CEO earns more before lunchtime on the very first day of work
in the year than a minimum wage worker earns all year.

"total overall labor costs" and not "unit labor costs."
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com

Like you said: "A CEO EARNS more...." The key word here is "earns"!!! I want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of my pay.

Millwright Ron wrote:

In 2005,


Yawn.... ... .. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz


--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Millwright Ron" wrote in message
...
On Mar 7, 1:28 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Millwright Ron wrote:

On Mar 7, 12:06 pm, Millwright Ron wrote:
So you think that Union

Yawn.... ... .. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!


In 2005, an average Chief Executive Officer (CEO) was paid 821 times
as much as a minimum wage earner, who earns just $5.15 per hour. An
average CEO earns more before lunchtime on the very first day of work
in the year than a minimum wage worker earns all year.

"total overall labor costs" and not "unit labor costs."
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com

Like you said: "A CEO EARNS more...." The key word here is "earns"!!! I
want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of my
pay.


That's because you're in the wrong business.


Hawke

"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Like you said: "A CEO EARNS more...." The key word here is "earns"!!! I want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of my pay.


Well, first you need to be publicly traded, have a compensation committee,
get a golden parachute deal, ect.

I believe you own your company and you are entitled to everything you can
get out of it. Not that I want to ever agree with Ron but some of these
CEO's that make out no mater how bad their companies do is just wrong. There
should be a penalty for failure. Front office or out in the plant.

Wes

"Hawke" wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Millwright Ron" wrote in message
...
On Mar 7, 1:28 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Millwright Ron wrote:

On Mar 7, 12:06 pm, Millwright Ron wrote:
So you think that Union

Yawn.... ... .. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!


In 2005, an average Chief Executive Officer (CEO) was paid 821 times
as much as a minimum wage earner, who earns just $5.15 per hour. An
average CEO earns more before lunchtime on the very first day of work
in the year than a minimum wage worker earns all year.

"total overall labor costs" and not "unit labor costs."
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com

Like you said: "A CEO EARNS more...." The key word here is "earns"!!! I
want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of my
pay.


That's because you're in the wrong business.


Hawke



Don't I know THAT!

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Like you said: "A CEO EARNS more...." The key word here is "earns"!!! I
want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of my pay.


Well, first you need to be publicly traded, have a compensation committee,
get a golden parachute deal, ect.

I believe you own your company and you are entitled to everything you can
get out of it. Not that I want to ever agree with Ron but some of these
CEO's that make out no mater how bad their companies do is just wrong. There
should be a penalty for failure. Front office or out in the plant.

Wes

You are certainly right! We read about the one in 100,000 companies that have
the huge compensation packages while most firms' officers make a reasonable
salary and work their asses off.

On Mar 8, 9:57*am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...





"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Like you said: *"A CEO EARNS more...." *The key word here is "earns"!!! *I
want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of my pay.

Well, first you need to be publicly traded, have a compensation committee,
get a golden parachute deal, ect.

I believe you own your company and you are entitled to everything you can
get out of it. *Not that I want to ever agree with Ron but some of these
CEO's that make out no mater how bad their companies do is just wrong. There
should be a penalty for failure. *Front office or out in the plant.

Wes

You are certainly right! *We read about the one in 100,000 companies that have
the huge compensation packages while most firms' officers make a reasonable
salary and work their asses off.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Care to tell us about some of the "good guys"?

Meanwhile your children's future is being raped by the likes of these
guys....

And make no mistake, your kids are going to have to pay for this
one....

TMT

Congressional panel rips subprime CEOs' lavish pay By Kevin Drawbaugh
Fri Mar 7, 6:11 PM ET



The fat compensation packages of three U.S. CEOs whose companies are
being hammered by the widening mortgage crisis came under harsh
criticism on Friday at a congressional hearing on executive pay.

In the last two quarters of 2007 alone, the three executives' firms
lost more than $20 billion on investments in subprime and other risky
mortgages, said the House of Representatives Oversight and Government
Operations Committee.

Yet the three took home fortunes in 2007 -- $120 million for
Countrywide Financial Corp (CFC.N) CEO Angelo Mozilo; a $161 million
retirement package for ex-Merrill Lynch (MER.N) CEO Stanley O'Neal;
and $39.5 million in stock, options, bonus and perks for former
Citigroup (C.N) CEO Charles Prince.

"The mortgage crisis is having enormous repercussions. Families are
losing their homes ... Thousands are losing their jobs. It seems like
everybody is hurting, except for the CEOs who had the most
responsibility," said California Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman,
committee chairman.

In a hearing room packed with bank lobbyists and lawyers, Waxman said,
"I have no problem with paying for success. But it looks like when
you're a CEO you get paid for failure."

Mozilo, O'Neal and Prince told Waxman's panel that they earned their
compensation. They conceded misjudgments in the subprime debacle,
while one Republican lawmaker blasted the hearing as "a sanctimonious
search for scapegoats."

Virginia Rep. Tom Davis said, "Punishing individual corporate
executives with public floggings like this may be a politically
satisfying ritual -- like an island tribe sacrificing a virgin to a
grumbling volcano.

"But in the end, it won't answer the questions ... about corporate
responsibility and economic stability."

The hearing marked Congress' latest foray into one of corporate
America's most enduring controversies -- the sky-rocketing
compensation of chief executive officers.

On a global scale, U.S. CEOs earn considerably more money on average
than their peers abroad, and about 600 times more than the average
U.S. worker, up from just 40 times in 1980, according to academic
studies of executive pay.

With companies headed into the spring annual meeting season when they
disclose managers' compensation, the rich winnings of some financial
executives are contrasting starkly with heavy losses at many firms as
a historic home price bubble deflates.

Maryland Democratic Rep. Elijah Cummings said he was not hunting
scapegoats. But looking at Mozilo, he said, "You run the largest
mortgage originator in the country. If you don't have some personal
responsibility, I don't know who does."

U.S. banks have written off more than $120 billion in assets in the
housing slump, while thousands of jobs have been lost and home
foreclosures are soaring to record highs.

Cummings said he was disturbed by what he said was a "disconnect"
between the troubles of average homeowners and the generous golden
parachute severance deals some executives get.

"I worry about this whole culture where the little guy gets squeezed
and next thing you know, he has a debt, not a house ... and the
parachutes just drift on up the golf course."

Rep. Peter Welch asked the three managers why Goldman Sachs (GS.N) has
avoided, so far, huge subprime losses while their banks have not, and
yet they were paid handsomely.

"That's the disconnect that I think a lot of us are feeling," said the
Vermont Democrat.

O'Neal and Prince stepped down from their CEO posts last year, while
Mozilo is planning to leave if his company is bought out by Bank of
America Corp (BAC.N).

Nell Minow, editor of The Corporate Library and an investor rights
advocate, at the hearing said, "There is an obvious disconnect between
the performance of these CEOs and the compensation they received. They
led the companies in a risky strategic direction that resulted in
significant losses."

The executives, along with members of their companies' boards who also
testified, defended their pay packages as being aligned with
shareholder interests, competitive in the market for management
talent, and overseen properly by directors.

But Minow criticized "all-upside, no downside pay plans." She said a
key American corporate governance weakness, even in the post-Enron
era, remains investors' inability to do much about excessive CEO pay
approved by subservient boards.

She urged the Senate to adopt legislation already passed in the House
to give shareholders a non-binding "say on pay."

(Reporting by Kevin Drawbaugh; Editing by Diane)

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Like you said: "A CEO EARNS more...." The key word here is "earns"!!!
I want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of my
pay.


Well, first you need to be publicly traded, have a compensation committee,
get a golden parachute deal, ect.

I believe you own your company and you are entitled to everything you can
get out of it. Not that I want to ever agree with Ron but some of these
CEO's that make out no mater how bad their companies do is just wrong.
There
should be a penalty for failure. Front office or out in the plant.

Wes

You're a pretty bad republican if you think like that. Good republicans
never see anything wrong with any pay CEOs get no matter what the
circumstances. Just being the boss means you deserve to be a
multimillionaire no matter how bad you run the business.

Hawke

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 21:22:24 -0800, "Hawke"
wrote:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Like you said: "A CEO EARNS more...." The key word here is "earns"!!!
I want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of my
pay.


Well, first you need to be publicly traded, have a compensation committee,
get a golden parachute deal, ect.

I believe you own your company and you are entitled to everything you can
get out of it. Not that I want to ever agree with Ron but some of these
CEO's that make out no mater how bad their companies do is just wrong.
There
should be a penalty for failure. Front office or out in the plant.

Wes

You're a pretty bad republican if you think like that. Good republicans
never see anything wrong with any pay CEOs get no matter what the
circumstances. Just being the boss means you deserve to be a
multimillionaire no matter how bad you run the business.

Hawke

Or the country?

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

All I'm going to say is I got a pay raise in the latest round.

And the progressives like Hawke and "too many tools" seem quite
content to have the government make decisions about how much they
should be paid, in addition to the other areas where they don't feel
competent enough to make decisions.

--
pyotr filipivich
Any entity big enough to meet your needs,
is big enough to decide what those needs should be.

"Hawke" wrote:

You're a pretty bad republican if you think like that. Good republicans
never see anything wrong with any pay CEOs get no matter what the
circumstances. Just being the boss means you deserve to be a
multimillionaire no matter how bad you run the business.


I'm a stock holder in many companies, NOT overpaying the hired help is good
business practice. CEO's are hired help.

Wes

Wes wrote:

I'm a stock holder in many companies, NOT overpaying the hired help is good
business practice. CEO's are hired help.

To clarify, since I posted to fast. Many CEO's are hired help, some are
owners. World of difference between the two.

Wes

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...

Care to tell us about some of the "good guys"?

Me and everyone else I know in business. Of the hundreds of thousands of
businesses, a vast majority...any other remarks?

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Wes wrote:

I'm a stock holder in many companies, NOT overpaying the hired help is good
business practice. CEO's are hired help.

To clarify, since I posted to fast. Many CEO's are hired help, some are
owners. World of difference between the two.

Wes

They just don't get it. They know nothing about business and never will.

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 21:22:24 -0800, "Hawke"
wrote:
snip
You're a pretty bad republican if you think like that. Good republicans
never see anything wrong with any pay CEOs get no matter what the
circumstances. Just being the boss means you deserve to be a
multimillionaire no matter how bad you run the business.

Hawke
===========
For a "best practices" benchmark for a "good Republican" see
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...uity.useconomy

--------------
Blackstone founder backs apocalyptic warning with $1bn

· Private equity tsar sets up anti-welfare foundation
· US cannot sustain its public spending, he argues

* Andrew Clark in New York
* The Guardian,
* Monday February 18 2008

One of the billionaire founders of the Blackstone private equity
empire has set up a charitable foundation to warn Americans of a
looming economic apocalypse if the nation persists with a culture
of "entitlement".

Peter Peterson, a former US commerce secretary who established
Blackstone in 1985 with Stephen Schwarzman, is devoting $1bn
(£510m) of his estimated $2.5bn fortune to the new foundation,
which paints a gloomy picture of the country's financial future.
The fund will be run by the US comptroller general David Walker,
who is resigning from the Bush administration to take up the job.

"We're going to be working very hard to keep America great and to
make sure that America's future is better than its past, because
America is at risk today," Walker said.

Among the fund's core aims is to spread a message propounded by
81-year-old Peterson for decades - that healthcare, social
security and pension costs are unsustainable as the US's
population ages. Together with "abysmally low" savings and a
soaring budget deficit, Peterson argues that this will lead to a
financial crisis.

snip

But Peterson also argues for an abolition of "middle-class
welfare" and for an end to budget deficits, saying they are
storing up chronic problems.
============

We will keep cutting our workers wages until their savings rates
improve, and they stop getting old and sick.....



Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:06:34 -0800 (PST), Millwright Ron
wrote:

So you think that Union labor controls the economy.It is not labor
but
greed.
snip
===========
FWIW
.................
Costly where it counts
Some things are getting cheaper. But that's the stuff we can do
without
By Peter Y. Hong, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 9, 2008
snip
Average weekly earnings in the private sector in 2007 were 15%
below the 1972 peak in real terms, according to the Bureau of
Labor Statistics.

Along with falling wages, we're paying more for benefits. Health
insurance premiums rose 78% from 2002 to 2007, according to the
Kaiser Family Foundation.

Retirement costs more as well. We spent 4% more on pensions and
Social Security in 2005 than in 1990 in real terms, census
figures show.

And we're spending a lot more on education. Yearly total costs at
some elite private colleges now exceed the U.S. median household
income. Many public universities have steadily increased their
prices too, and at UCLA, students shell out more for parking
($225 a quarter) and textbooks (more than $100 for a single tome
in many classes) than generations of students paid for tuition at
University of California campuses in the first half of the 20th
century.
snip
....................
for complete article see
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...=1&cset= true


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Mar 9, 2:48*am, pyotr filipivich wrote:
* * * * All I'm going to say is I got a pay raise in the latest round.

* * * * And the progressives like Hawke and "too many tools" seem quite
content to have the government make decisions about how much they
should be paid, in addition to the other areas where they don't feel
competent enough to make decisions.

--
pyotr filipivich
Any entity big enough to meet your needs,
is big enough to decide what those needs should be.

LOL...you are so full of it that it runs out of your ears.

Do you really think the owners of the companies...the
stockholders...would be allowing this obsence CEO pay to occur if they
were allowed to actually have a say in the matter?

Everytime it is brought up in stockholder meetings the board votes it
down.

The game is fixed and everyone knows it.

Meanwhile your kids will be paying the price.

TMT

On Mar 9, 10:58*am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...

Care to tell us about some of the "good guys"?

Me and everyone else I know in business. *Of the hundreds of thousands of
businesses, a vast majority...any other remarks?

I am still waiting for the cites.

Owner and CEO are two different animals.

TMT

On Mar 9, 2:02*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:06:34 -0800 (PST), Millwright Ron

wrote:
So you think that Union labor controls the economy.It is not labor
but
greed.

snip
===========
FWIW
................
Costly where it counts
Some things are getting cheaper. But that's the stuff we can do
without
By Peter Y. Hong, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 9, 2008
snip
Average weekly earnings in the private sector in 2007 were 15%
below the 1972 peak in real terms, according to the Bureau of
Labor Statistics.

Along with falling wages, we're paying more for benefits. Health
insurance premiums rose 78% from 2002 to 2007, according to the
Kaiser Family Foundation.

Retirement costs more as well. We spent 4% more on pensions and
Social Security in 2005 than in 1990 in real terms, census
figures show.

And we're spending a lot more on education. Yearly total costs at
some elite private colleges now exceed the U.S. median household
income. Many public universities have steadily increased their
prices too, and at UCLA, students shell out more for parking
($225 a quarter) and textbooks (more than $100 for a single tome
in many classes) than generations of students paid for tuition at
University of California campuses in the first half of the 20th
century.
snip
...................
for complete article seehttp://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-why9mar09,1,2301744.story?track...

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Actually I have been reading the cost of education with some interest.

How about companies educating their own workers...and bearing the
expense?

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

LOL...you are so full of it that it runs out of your ears.

Do you really think the owners of the companies...the
stockholders...would be allowing this obsence CEO pay to occur if they
were allowed to actually have a say in the matter?

Everytime it is brought up in stockholder meetings the board votes it
down.

The game is fixed and everyone knows it.

Meanwhile your kids will be paying the price.

TMT


obsence? Your name should be Too_Many_Words.



--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 13:44:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Mar 9, 2:02*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:06:34 -0800 (PST), Millwright Ron

wrote:
So you think that Union labor controls the economy.It is not labor
but
greed.

snip
===========
FWIW
................
Costly where it counts
Some things are getting cheaper. But that's the stuff we can do
without
By Peter Y. Hong, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 9, 2008
snip
Average weekly earnings in the private sector in 2007 were 15%
below the 1972 peak in real terms, according to the Bureau of
Labor Statistics.

Along with falling wages, we're paying more for benefits. Health
insurance premiums rose 78% from 2002 to 2007, according to the
Kaiser Family Foundation.

Retirement costs more as well. We spent 4% more on pensions and
Social Security in 2005 than in 1990 in real terms, census
figures show.

And we're spending a lot more on education. Yearly total costs at
some elite private colleges now exceed the U.S. median household
income. Many public universities have steadily increased their
prices too, and at UCLA, students shell out more for parking
($225 a quarter) and textbooks (more than $100 for a single tome
in many classes) than generations of students paid for tuition at
University of California campuses in the first half of the 20th
century.
snip
...................
for complete article seehttp://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-why9mar09,1,2301744.story?track...

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Actually I have been reading the cost of education with some interest.

How about companies educating their own workers...and bearing the
expense?

TMT
=============
If the companies invested that much money and time in educating
"their" workers, they wouldn't want to lay them off when it came
time to cut costs, and then where would we be? Also how can they
value that "investment" on their books? What happens when an
employee quits and takes their "smarts" with them?

Be aware that "education" is an indefinite/ambigious term [is it
a noun or a verb -- how is it measured] where its "lack" is
increasingly being used as an excuse/rationale for poor
management performance and practices. One example, if the
average reading comprehension of the workforce is know to be 8th
grade, why does management tolerate manuals and instructions
written at the 12 grade level?

"Education" can fix ignorance, it has no affect on stupidity in
the slightest, and makes only minimal impact on [the lack of]
interpersonal skills and foresight, in the absence of any desire
to do better/diferently.

If your employees need a personality transplant, they need
intensive long-term group therapy (2 hrs a night, 3 nights a
week) with a qualified professional, not "education."

Companies have made every possible effort to "de-skill" every
position, and implement computer based DSS [decision support
systems] and "knowledge management," with little documented
[positive] bottom line effect, other than laying off their older,
more highly paid employees (and this only in the short-term).

While anecdotal evidence is rampant (and increasingly shrill), I
am not aware of any study showing that improving the average
educational level in an operation [while retaining existing
employees] has increased profits by even a single penny. The
very few studies that posited a quality or profit improvement, on
examination show the effect of organizational "reconstitution"
with the replacement of significant numbers of employees in
critical positions, not the [assumed] effect of "education" or
"training" on the existing employees.

What may be confounding the executives' (and the publics')
perceptions is that educational attainment is a "marker" for a
cluster of individuals's traits including basic intelligences
(yes, there are several different types), socio-economic/cultural
background, interpersonal skills, foresight & planning, etc. Thus
the apparent/perceived management "problems" with low education
employees may well stem from the fact that they selected the
"dumber than a sack of hair" individuals lacking "basic smarts,"
etc. because they were willing to work for less, and selected
against employees with basic smarts, interpersonal skills, etc.
because the wanted (or left for) higher pay.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Hawke wrote:

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Hawke" wrote:

You're a pretty bad republican if you think like that. Good republicans
never see anything wrong with any pay CEOs get no matter what the
circumstances. Just being the boss means you deserve to be a
multimillionaire no matter how bad you run the business.


I'm a stock holder in many companies, NOT overpaying the hired help is
good
business practice. CEO's are hired help.

Wes

Right, and I'm the tooth fairy.


Well, you got the last half right.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Hawke" wrote:

You're a pretty bad republican if you think like that. Good republicans
never see anything wrong with any pay CEOs get no matter what the
circumstances. Just being the boss means you deserve to be a
multimillionaire no matter how bad you run the business.


I'm a stock holder in many companies, NOT overpaying the hired help is
good
business practice. CEO's are hired help.

Wes

Right, and I'm the tooth fairy.

Hawke

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
. net...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Wes wrote:

I'm a stock holder in many companies, NOT overpaying the hired help is
good
business practice. CEO's are hired help.

To clarify, since I posted to fast. Many CEO's are hired help, some are
owners. World of difference between the two.

Wes

They just don't get it. They know nothing about business and never will.


If you keep saying that over and over I know it'll make you feel good. It's
not true but keep saying it enough and you'll convince yourself it is.
Business isn't rocket science, after all you're doing it. Understanding how
it works is easy enough for most people. Plenty of idiots can run a
successful business. I see them all the time. It's more a matter of being in
the right place at the right time than anything else. If you think not, try
making money in the financial business right now and see how that goes.

Hawke

So you think that Union labor controls the economy.It is not labor
but
greed.
snip
===========
FWIW
................
Costly where it counts
Some things are getting cheaper. But that's the stuff we can do
without
By Peter Y. Hong, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 9, 2008
snip
Average weekly earnings in the private sector in 2007 were 15%
below the 1972 peak in real terms, according to the Bureau of
Labor Statistics.

Along with falling wages, we're paying more for benefits. Health
insurance premiums rose 78% from 2002 to 2007, according to the
Kaiser Family Foundation.

Retirement costs more as well. We spent 4% more on pensions and
Social Security in 2005 than in 1990 in real terms, census
figures show.

And we're spending a lot more on education. Yearly total costs at
some elite private colleges now exceed the U.S. median household
income. Many public universities have steadily increased their
prices too, and at UCLA, students shell out more for parking
($225 a quarter) and textbooks (more than $100 for a single tome
in many classes) than generations of students paid for tuition at
University of California campuses in the first half of the 20th
century.
snip
...................
for complete article see

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...=1&cset= true


Conservatives just can't stand it when you tell them that the prosperity
capitalism is supposed to deliver to Americans just isn't happening. Thirty
years pass and workers are getting less pay than before. The plan was that
people who work hard for a living and play by the rules are supposed to get
ahead. The middle class is declining not getting ahead. The promised
prosperity is not happening. That is an unvarnished fact. Conservatives just
hate hearing that all the malarky they spread about hard work and success
just isn't true. At least not in America, not any more. The people of this
country are getting poorer every year even though they are working more
hours than ever. That is the free market not delivering a higher standard to
working Americans. Looks to me like Americans got conned.

Hawke

On Mar 9, 8:52*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Hawke wrote:

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Hawke" wrote:

You're a pretty bad republican if you think like that. Good republicans
never see anything wrong with any pay CEOs get no matter what the
circumstances. Just being the boss means you deserve to be a
multimillionaire no matter how bad you run the business.

I'm a stock holder in many companies, NOT overpaying the hired help is
good
business practice. *CEO's are hired help.

Wes

Right, and I'm the tooth fairy.

* *Well, you got the last half right.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

************************************************** *************************

My question is -- when C.E.O.s have finally succeeded in laying off
the entire North American economy, forcing everyone to become a McJob
holding Wal-Mart wage slave, who the hell will be able to afford your
products? Are former Ford employees going to buy Fords? Are Hewlett-
Packard employees who have been screwed around by HP going to buy HP
products? Are people with no jobs, or poverty-level waged jobs, going
to be able to afford anything?

Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com

Millwright Ron wrote:

My question is why I, Millwright Ron, continue to tell my lies to people who can see right through me?

www.unionwhore.conman


Well, gee, Ron. why don't you go somewhere and think about it?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Too_Many_Trolls wrote in article
...
On Mar 8, 9:57*am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...





"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Like you said: *"A CEO EARNS more...." *The key word here is "earns"!!!
*I
want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of
my pay.

Well, first you need to be publicly traded, have a compensation
committee,
get a golden parachute deal, ect.

I believe you own your company and you are entitled to everything you
can
get out of it. *Not that I want to ever agree with Ron but some of
these
CEO's that make out no mater how bad their companies do is just wrong.
There
should be a penalty for failure. *Front office or out in the plant.

Wes

You are certainly right! *We read about the one in 100,000 companies that
have
the huge compensation packages while most firms' officers make a
reasonable
salary and work their asses off.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Care to tell us about some of the "good guys"?

Meanwhile your children's future is being raped by the likes of these
guys....

And make no mistake, your kids are going to have to pay for this
one....

TMT

------------------------------------------

I don't have any kids, so I guess, your kids are stuck with paying for me
too.............ROFLMAO

Too_Many_Tools wrote in article
...

Meanwhile your children's future is being raped by the likes of these
guys....

And make no mistake, your kids are going to have to pay for this
one....

-----------------------------------------------------------


Let's see......

Liberal democrat Roosevelt built the Social Security system pyramid scheme
based on anticipated, continued population growth.....larger and larger
generations of people paying for the benefits of their forebearers.......

Then, the liberal democrats got behind the Zero Population Growth movement
that postulated a world population capable of fitting in the State of Rhode
Island - each man, woman, and child standing on their own, personal,
five-square-foot patch - could not be sustained by the rest of the earth's
surface and oceans........ZPG, of course, promoted stagnant population
growth, thus reducing the supporting cast for S.S. to two workers for every
one retiree............

Now, we have Algore - the green monster - making ridiculous statements
suggesting that same world population that fits into an area the size of
the State of Rhode Island - a relative pinhead on the world map - has
caused ALL the alleged problems in the environment, and that same relative
flyspeck is, somehow, capable of reversing the destiny of the entire earth
and its oceans........and the acceleratng global warming that has been
going on and progressing since the Ice Age. As can be seen from "scientific
research", as ice melts, the darker earth absorbs more heat from the
atmosphere and sun and warms, thus melting even more ice......DUH!.........


I believe the pattern of who, exactly, is raping the current and future
populations is emerging............


When you speak of "....those guys....", you are, obviously, referring to
the liberal democrats, aren't you?

On Mar 10, 10:46*am, "*" wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote in article
...

Meanwhile your children's future is being raped by the likes of these
guys....

And make no mistake, your kids are going to have to pay for this
one....

-----------------------------------------------------------

Let's see......

Liberal democrat Roosevelt built the Social Security system pyramid scheme
based on anticipated, continued population growth.....larger and larger
generations of people paying for the benefits of their forebearers.......

Then, the liberal democrats got behind the Zero Population Growth movement
that postulated a world population capable of fitting in the State of Rhode
Island - each man, woman, and child standing on their own, personal,
five-square-foot patch - could not be sustained by the rest of the earth's
surface and oceans........ZPG, of course, promoted stagnant population
growth, thus reducing the supporting cast for S.S. to two workers for every
one retiree............

Now, we have Algore - the green monster - making ridiculous statements
suggesting that same world population that fits into an area the size of
the State of Rhode Island - a relative pinhead on the world map - has
caused ALL the alleged problems in the environment, and that same relative
flyspeck is, somehow, capable of reversing the destiny of the entire earth
and its oceans........and the acceleratng global warming that has been
going on and progressing since the Ice Age. As can be seen from "scientific
research", as ice melts, the darker earth absorbs more heat from the
atmosphere and sun and warms, thus melting even more ice......DUH!..........

I believe the pattern of who, exactly, is raping the current and future
populations is emerging............

When you speak of "....those guys....", you are, obviously, referring to
the liberal democrats, aren't you?

Hmm...once again...who is the REPUBLICAN President that is serving you
this economic disaster?

TMT

On Mar 10, 9:56*am, "*" wrote:
Too_Many_Trolls wrote in article
...
On Mar 8, 9:57*am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:





"Wes" wrote in message

...

"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Like you said: *"A CEO EARNS more...." *The key word here is "earns"!!!
*I
want
to see where you got your figures, I"m missing the other 820 parts of
my pay.

Well, first you need to be publicly traded, have a compensation
committee,
get a golden parachute deal, ect.

I believe you own your company and you are entitled to everything you
can
get out of it. *Not that I want to ever agree with Ron but some of
these
CEO's that make out no mater how bad their companies do is just wrong.
There
should be a penalty for failure. *Front office or out in the plant.

Wes

You are certainly right! *We read about the one in 100,000 companies that
have
the huge compensation packages while most firms' officers make a
reasonable
salary and work their asses off.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Care to tell us about some of the "good guys"?

Meanwhile your children's future is being raped by the likes of these
guys....

And make no mistake, your kids are going to have to pay for this
one....

TMT

------------------------------------------

I don't have any kids, so I guess, your kids are stuck with paying for me
too.............ROFLMAO- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So...do you have enough money to live on till you die?

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote in article
...
On Mar 10, 10:46*am, "*" wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote in article
...

Meanwhile your children's future is being raped by the likes of these
guys....

And make no mistake, your kids are going to have to pay for this
one....

-----------------------------------------------------------

Let's see......

Liberal democrat Roosevelt built the Social Security system pyramid
scheme
based on anticipated, continued population growth.....larger and larger
generations of people paying for the benefits of their forebearers.......

Then, the liberal democrats got behind the Zero Population Growth
movement
that postulated a world population capable of fitting in the State of
Rhode
Island - each man, woman, and child standing on their own, personal,
five-square-foot patch - could not be sustained by the rest of the
earth's
surface and oceans........ZPG, of course, promoted stagnant population
growth, thus reducing the supporting cast for S.S. to two workers for
every
one retiree............

Now, we have Algore - the green monster - making ridiculous statements
suggesting that same world population that fits into an area the size of
the State of Rhode Island - a relative pinhead on the world map - has
caused ALL the alleged problems in the environment, and that same
relative
flyspeck is, somehow, capable of reversing the destiny of the entire
earth
and its oceans........and the acceleratng global warming that has been
going on and progressing since the Ice Age. As can be seen from
"scientific
research", as ice melts, the darker earth absorbs more heat from the
atmosphere and sun and warms, thus melting even more
ice......DUH!.........

I believe the pattern of who, exactly, is raping the current and future
populations is emerging............

When you speak of "....those guys....", you are, obviously, referring to
the liberal democrats, aren't you?

Hmm...once again...who is the REPUBLICAN President that is serving you
this economic disaster?

TMT

----------


I don't believe "W" carries the nation's checkbook in his suitcoat
pocket......

It's the democrat-controlled Congress that spends our tax dollars, and
things have really begun to slide since Nancy and her gang took
over................

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 21:05:01 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


You are certainly right! *We read about the one in 100,000 companies that have
the huge compensation packages while most firms' officers make a reasonable
salary and work their asses off.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Care to tell us about some of the "good guys"?

Meanwhile your children's future is being raped by the likes of these
guys....

And make no mistake, your kids are going to have to pay for this
one....

TMT

Odd that so many Democrat politicians are millionares, no? Far more
Democrat Congress critters than Republican ones.

Why is that?

Im curious..how many of them own their own businesses. Like..Nancy
Pelosi for example? The one with a number of businesses, which hire
illegal aliens

Im sure there are others I could find in a few moments searching on
the net....

Or are they simply like Congressman (Cold Cash) Jefferson, who instead
of mold in the fridge, finds money in the freezer, to attribute their
riches to?

Gunner

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:58:16 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...

Care to tell us about some of the "good guys"?

Me and everyone else I know in business. Of the hundreds of thousands of
businesses, a vast majority...any other remarks?

I own my own business..and work my ass off.

Gunner

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:05:33 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Mar 10, 10:46*am, "*" wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote in article
...

Meanwhile your children's future is being raped by the likes of these
guys....

And make no mistake, your kids are going to have to pay for this
one....

-----------------------------------------------------------

Let's see......

Liberal democrat Roosevelt built the Social Security system pyramid scheme
based on anticipated, continued population growth.....larger and larger
generations of people paying for the benefits of their forebearers.......

Then, the liberal democrats got behind the Zero Population Growth movement
that postulated a world population capable of fitting in the State of Rhode
Island - each man, woman, and child standing on their own, personal,
five-square-foot patch - could not be sustained by the rest of the earth's
surface and oceans........ZPG, of course, promoted stagnant population
growth, thus reducing the supporting cast for S.S. to two workers for every
one retiree............

Now, we have Algore - the green monster - making ridiculous statements
suggesting that same world population that fits into an area the size of
the State of Rhode Island - a relative pinhead on the world map - has
caused ALL the alleged problems in the environment, and that same relative
flyspeck is, somehow, capable of reversing the destiny of the entire earth
and its oceans........and the acceleratng global warming that has been
going on and progressing since the Ice Age. As can be seen from "scientific
research", as ice melts, the darker earth absorbs more heat from the
atmosphere and sun and warms, thus melting even more ice......DUH!.........

I believe the pattern of who, exactly, is raping the current and future
populations is emerging............

When you speak of "....those guys....", you are, obviously, referring to
the liberal democrats, aren't you?

Hmm...once again...who is the REPUBLICAN President that is serving you
this economic disaster?

TMT

Odd..isnt it Congress which holds the purse strings and makes laws?

A Democrat Controlled Congress isnt it?
Gunner