There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.
--
Tim Lamb

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

--
Peter Crosland

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with a
few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after stopping
medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume treatment to
double check any noted changes.
--
Tim Lamb

I understand that you need less of a dose if you use Rosuvastatin (which I
use) as opposed to Simvastatin for example.

On Fri, 03 May 2013 22:32:57 +0100, Peter Crosland
wrote:

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

_Especially_ uk.d-i-y !


--
Frank Erskine

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

No idea, but I expect about as bad as any other animal fat.

You could always do a series of experiments on yourself to find out your
personal response to it if your doctor is prepared to cooperate - about
a month should be enough to reach equilibrium.

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

That data should be in the clinical trials or MSDS for the specific drug
but the dose response behaviour varies wildly with individuals depending
on how good their enzyme metabolism for destroying it is and the amount
of bergommotin they consume from other sources.

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you paid
for it and in some cases considerably less.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In message , Peter
Crosland writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

Yes. However, they may already have asked more pertinent questions than
I did in the allotted 10mins. Some of them may have a better scientific
understanding of the answers:-)


--
Tim Lamb

In message , John Williamson
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...
How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?
How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.
I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

Nor I:-)

Apparently cholesterol is largely created by the liver. Some people are
genetically disposed to create more than is necessary. My liver function
is suspect but an ultrasound check failed to find anything suspicious.
Very hard to convince the medical profession that you don't drink so
cirrhosis is unlikely:-)


--
Tim Lamb

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

No idea, but I expect about as bad as any other animal fat.

You could always do a series of experiments on yourself to find out
your personal response to it if your doctor is prepared to cooperate -
about a month should be enough to reach equilibrium.

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

That data should be in the clinical trials or MSDS for the specific
drug but the dose response behaviour varies wildly with individuals
depending on how good their enzyme metabolism for destroying it is and
the amount of bergommotin they consume from other sources.

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you
paid for it and in some cases considerably less.

Thanks for above. I was warned about grapefruit but not the actual
mechanism.

Somewhere back in my crop spraying days I remember spray can warnings
about *anti-choline esterase*. I still wonder what it meant!


--
Tim Lamb

On 04/05/2013 07:57, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

I believe there is quite some truth in that.

High cholesterol is often related to inadequate thyroid hormone. To the
extent that high cholesterol was used as an indicator of hypothyroidism
in the days before suitable blood tests were available.

Have no idea whatsoever about the pork slices you eat. At least read the
packet and tell us what they contain!

Almost nothing in medicine is strictly linear - so I would tend to
assume the response is not linear.

You could do worse than go off and look at some papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...esponse+linear

--
Rod

In message , polygonum
writes
On 04/05/2013 07:57, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

I believe there is quite some truth in that.

High cholesterol is often related to inadequate thyroid hormone. To the
extent that high cholesterol was used as an indicator of hypothyroidism
in the days before suitable blood tests were available.

Have no idea whatsoever about the pork slices you eat. At least read
the packet and tell us what they contain!

Almost nothing in medicine is strictly linear - so I would tend to
assume the response is not linear.

You could do worse than go off and look at some papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...esponse+linear

Ah! Ta. Looks linear over normal dose rates.

If the dietary effect is only 10%, I think I will ignore my wife's
mutterings:-)


--
Tim Lamb

On 04/05/2013 08:30, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

No idea, but I expect about as bad as any other animal fat.

You could always do a series of experiments on yourself to find out
your personal response to it if your doctor is prepared to cooperate -
about a month should be enough to reach equilibrium.

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

That data should be in the clinical trials or MSDS for the specific
drug but the dose response behaviour varies wildly with individuals
depending on how good their enzyme metabolism for destroying it is and
the amount of bergommotin they consume from other sources.

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you
paid for it and in some cases considerably less.

Thanks for above. I was warned about grapefruit but not the actual
mechanism.

Somewhere back in my crop spraying days I remember spray can warnings
about *anti-choline esterase*. I still wonder what it meant!



Nothing is ever simple...

J Pharm Sci. 2011 Sep;100(9):3843-53. doi: 10.1002/jps.22586. Epub 2011
Apr 24.
Differential effect of grapefruit juice on intestinal absorption of
statins due to inhibition of organic anion transporting polypeptide
and/or P-glycoprotein.
Shirasaka Y, Suzuki K, Nakanishi T, Tamai I.
Source

Faculty of Pharmacy, Institute of Medical, Pharmaceutical and Health
Sciences, Kanazawa University, Kakuma-machi, Kanazawa 920-1192, Japan.
Abstract

The purpose of this study is to examine the contributions of organic
anion transporting polypeptide (Oatp) and/or P-glycoprotein (P-gp) to
grapefruit juice (GFJ) interaction with two statins, pravastatin and
pitavastatin, which undergo negligible metabolism in rats. The two
statins were found to be substrates of both Oatp1a5 and Oatp2b1, whereas
pitavastatin, but not pravastatin, was a substrate of P-gp. The plasma
concentration of pravastatin after oral administration was significantly
decreased by GFJ and naringin, whereas that of pitavastatin was
significantly increased. Naringin inhibited Oatp1a5- and
Oatp2b1-mediated uptake of pravastatin and Oatp1a5-mediated, but not
Oatp2b1-mediated, uptake of pitavastatin. Naringin also inhibited
P-gp-mediated transport of pitavastatin. These results suggested that
the decrease of pravastatin absorption in the presence of GFJ is due to
the inhibitory effect of naringin on Oatp, whereas the increase of
pitavastatin is due to the inhibition of P-gp. These observations are
consistent with the results of in situ absorption studies. In
conclusion, Oatp and/or P-gp contribute to the intestinal absorption of
statins, and the differential effect of GFJ on pravastatin and
pitavastatin absorption is at least partly accounted for by the
different inhibitory effects of naringin on these transporters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21520088

There are another 55 papers indexed on PubMed for grapefruit and statin.
I believe there may be other issues as well. I rather liked that this
one varied by statin.

--
Rod

On 04/05/2013 08:30, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you
paid for it and in some cases considerably less.

Thanks for above. I was warned about grapefruit but not the actual
mechanism.

Somewhere back in my crop spraying days I remember spray can warnings
about *anti-choline esterase*. I still wonder what it meant!

I hope you are joking...

The short version is "Beware of Nerve Gas". PPE is essential.

They are targeted specifically at insect nervous systems but would do
you no good at all if you got contaminated with them. Pinpoint pupils is
the first symptom of poisoning and requires urgent treatment.

Insecticide researchers stumbled across a new class of them. ICI's
Amiton aka VG was one of the first but was too toxic for safe use.

The very nasty area denial agent VX was a military research derivative
and the Germans in WWII were convinced that the allies had similar nerve
agents to Tabun and Sarin by the secrecy surrounding DDT.

http://www.aadet.com/article/VX_%28nerve_agent%29

Ones used as insecticides tended to be rapidly degraded in the
environment. Malathion and dimethoate among the more common ones.
Malathion has relatively low human toxicity for a nerve agent.

Too many insects are immune to them now so neonicotinoids are the new
flavour of the day. they are getting a bad rap for harming bees although
it is unclear to me if this is fair since many of the crops they are
used on are wind pollenated and do not attract bees!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 04/05/2013 08:30, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you
paid for it and in some cases considerably less.

Thanks for above. I was warned about grapefruit but not the actual
mechanism.

Somewhere back in my crop spraying days I remember spray can warnings
about *anti-choline esterase*. I still wonder what it meant!

I hope you are joking...

Not really. Apart from a fully closed cab with active air filtering and
remote sprayer controls, PPE is difficult to achieve.

Direct contact with actives is simple but diluted volatiles find their
way into tractor cabs of my vintage. I'm still here so it can't have
been that bad although I still wonder about long term health effects.

The short version is "Beware of Nerve Gas". PPE is essential.

They are targeted specifically at insect nervous systems but would do
you no good at all if you got contaminated with them. Pinpoint pupils
is the first symptom of poisoning and requires urgent treatment.

Insecticide researchers stumbled across a new class of them. ICI's
Amiton aka VG was one of the first but was too toxic for safe use.

The very nasty area denial agent VX was a military research derivative
and the Germans in WWII were convinced that the allies had similar
nerve agents to Tabun and Sarin by the secrecy surrounding DDT.

http://www.aadet.com/article/VX_%28nerve_agent%29

Ones used as insecticides tended to be rapidly degraded in the
environment. Malathion and dimethoate among the more common ones.

I think Dimethoate was withdrawn years ago which was a pity as it was
about the only useful chemical for Crane Fly larvae. (Dursban).

Malathion has relatively low human toxicity for a nerve agent.

Too many insects are immune to them now so neonicotinoids are the new
flavour of the day. they are getting a bad rap for harming bees
although it is unclear to me if this is fair since many of the crops
they are used on are wind pollenated and do not attract bees!

I am out of touch now as I have stopped arable cropping. I have an idea
that the insecticide is applied to Rape seed so may still be slightly
active at flowering.


--
Tim Lamb

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Choles...holesterol+con

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 04/05/2013 08:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Peter
Crosland writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

Yes. However, they may already have asked more pertinent questions than
I did in the allotted 10mins. Some of them may have a better scientific
understanding of the answers:-)

If you feel the basic ten minute appointment is too short you can ask
for a longer one. Any GP practice thas does not do that is not doing
their job adeqautely. Without a full medical history no doctor, let
alone amateur "experts" on a NG are in a position to give valid advice.
To emphasise the point it really is extremly foolish to rely on
unqualified advice in the way you are trying to do.


--
Peter Crosland

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Colin Bignell

Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


Anyone taking statins should read "The Great Cholesterol Con" by
GP Dr Malcolm Kendrick.
I did - and promptly stopped taking them - some weeks ago.
Since then I have not felt better for a very long time (since before
I was advised to take them in fact).

Jim Hawkins

On 04/05/2013 08:51, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , polygonum
writes
On 04/05/2013 07:57, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

I believe there is quite some truth in that.

High cholesterol is often related to inadequate thyroid hormone. To
the extent that high cholesterol was used as an indicator of
hypothyroidism in the days before suitable blood tests were available.

Have no idea whatsoever about the pork slices you eat. At least read
the packet and tell us what they contain!

Almost nothing in medicine is strictly linear - so I would tend to
assume the response is not linear.

You could do worse than go off and look at some papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...esponse+linear

Ah! Ta. Looks linear over normal dose rates.

If the dietary effect is only 10%, I think I will ignore my wife's
mutterings:-)


Although _I_ believe that fat in the diet is a relatively small part of
the equation, I do not expect anyone to follow my belief! :-)

I am in the luckier position of having low cholesterol levels so my
reading is more limited.

--
Rod

On 04/05/2013 11:44, Jim Hawkins wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


Anyone taking statins should read "The Great Cholesterol Con" by
GP Dr Malcolm Kendrick.
I did - and promptly stopped taking them - some weeks ago.
Since then I have not felt better for a very long time (since before
I was advised to take them in fact).

Jim Hawkins



+1


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 04/05/13 11:44, Jim Hawkins wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Anyone taking statins should read "The Great Cholesterol Con" by
GP Dr Malcolm Kendrick.
I did - and promptly stopped taking them - some weeks ago.
Since then I have not felt better for a very long time (since before
I was advised to take them in fact).

Jim Hawkins



+1


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 03/05/2013 9:41 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


You can spend 6 - 7 years of your life learning nutrition and it will
all boil down to a simple formula; eat fresh veg' and fruit.

Processed 'anything' is junk.

--
One click voting to change the world.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/
Join Now! Be a part of people power.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/
Biting the hand that feeds IT

On 04/05/2013 12:58, RayL12 wrote:
On 03/05/2013 9:41 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


You can spend 6 - 7 years of your life learning nutrition and it will
all boil down to a simple formula; eat fresh veg' and fruit.

Processed 'anything' is junk.

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.

--
Rod

On 04/05/2013 7:57 AM, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.


I too have read such. One such 'theory' is for the body to re-balance
excess salt content by wrapping it in cholesterol.

--
One click voting to change the world.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/
Join Now! Be a part of people power.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/
Biting the hand that feeds IT

On 04/05/2013 1:06 PM, polygonum wrote:
On 04/05/2013 12:58, RayL12 wrote:
On 03/05/2013 9:41 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


You can spend 6 - 7 years of your life learning nutrition and it will
all boil down to a simple formula; eat fresh veg' and fruit.

Processed 'anything' is junk.

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.



I have no doubt that that is true. Though, I struggle to accept it as
a condition considering that humankind evolved from eating just those
things.

--
One click voting to change the world.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/
Join Now! Be a part of people power.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/
Biting the hand that feeds IT

On 04/05/13 13:21, RayL12 wrote:
On 04/05/2013 1:06 PM, polygonum wrote:
On 04/05/2013 12:58, RayL12 wrote:
On 03/05/2013 9:41 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


You can spend 6 - 7 years of your life learning nutrition and it will
all boil down to a simple formula; eat fresh veg' and fruit.

Processed 'anything' is junk.

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.



I have no doubt that that is true. Though, I struggle to accept it as
a condition considering that humankind evolved from eating just those
things.

I am not sure that is correct. Man probably evolved eating fruit, nuts
and meat/fish.

vegetables came later.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On Sat, 04 May 2013 09:57:38 +0000, Huge wrote:

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

S'what my quack said.

Mine said 80/20 body/diet.

--
Terry Fields

On 04/05/2013 13:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 04/05/13 13:21, RayL12 wrote:
On 04/05/2013 1:06 PM, polygonum wrote:
On 04/05/2013 12:58, RayL12 wrote:
On 03/05/2013 9:41 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was
left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it
a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found
4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


You can spend 6 - 7 years of your life learning nutrition and it will
all boil down to a simple formula; eat fresh veg' and fruit.

Processed 'anything' is junk.

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.

I have no doubt that that is true. Though, I struggle to accept it
as a condition considering that humankind evolved from eating just
those things.

I am not sure that is correct. Man probably evolved eating fruit, nuts
and meat/fish.

vegetables came later.

Don't bother, chaps; we have another nutter in our midst.

Only mentioned vegetables and fruit - not nuts. :-)

--
Rod

On Sat, 04 May 2013 13:21:05 +0100, RayL12 wrote:

On 04/05/2013 1:06 PM, polygonum wrote:

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.

And anyone with arthritis might like to try avoiding tomatoes and sweet peppers.

I have no doubt that that is true. Though, I struggle to accept it as
a condition considering that humankind evolved from eating just those
things.

But 'humankind' isn't a static object. I have a blood-group that did not arise in Africa, and group AB appeared in
the last 900 years or so somewhere in the Northern Hemispere.

--
Terry Fields

On 04/05/2013 13:09, RayL12 wrote:
On 04/05/2013 7:57 AM, John Williamson wrote:

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.


Some is certainly generated, but how much varies with the individual.


I too have read such. One such 'theory' is for the body to re-balance
excess salt content by wrapping it in cholesterol.

That is pure bovine excrement. If excess salt gets wrapped in anything
it is additional water retention leading to raised blood pressure.
(also a potentially life shortening condition)

I suggest you discount anything you have read on that website.
The net is full of kooks and nutters expounding crazy "THEORIES".

If you are lucky all in capitals is a good marker for a crazy KOOK.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 04/05/2013 14:26, Terry Fields wrote:
On Sat, 04 May 2013 13:21:05 +0100, RayL12 wrote:

On 04/05/2013 1:06 PM, polygonum wrote:

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.

And anyone with arthritis might like to try avoiding tomatoes and sweet peppers.

Not heard that one before. Would you care to elaborate?


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 04/05/2013 14:36, Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/05/2013 14:26, Terry Fields wrote:
On Sat, 04 May 2013 13:21:05 +0100, RayL12 wrote:

On 04/05/2013 1:06 PM, polygonum wrote:

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.

And anyone with arthritis might like to try avoiding tomatoes and
sweet peppers.

Not heard that one before. Would you care to elaborate?


It will be the deadly nightshade family issue.

However, I have to question why the namers of these things emphasise
"deadly nightshade" rather then the relatively neutral "Solanaceae" or
subfamily "Solanoideae"?

--
Rod

On 04/05/2013 14:50, polygonum wrote:
On 04/05/2013 14:36, Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/05/2013 14:26, Terry Fields wrote:
On Sat, 04 May 2013 13:21:05 +0100, RayL12 wrote:

On 04/05/2013 1:06 PM, polygonum wrote:

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.

And anyone with arthritis might like to try avoiding tomatoes and
sweet peppers.

Not heard that one before. Would you care to elaborate?


It will be the deadly nightshade family issue.

However, I have to question why the namers of these things emphasise
"deadly nightshade" rather then the relatively neutral "Solanaceae" or
subfamily "Solanoideae"?

That also includes potatoes. I haven't heard this kooky "theory" tho.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sat, 4 May 2013 08:51:38 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , polygonum
writes
On 04/05/2013 07:57, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

I believe there is quite some truth in that.

High cholesterol is often related to inadequate thyroid hormone. To the
extent that high cholesterol was used as an indicator of hypothyroidism
in the days before suitable blood tests were available.

Have no idea whatsoever about the pork slices you eat. At least read
the packet and tell us what they contain!

Almost nothing in medicine is strictly linear - so I would tend to
assume the response is not linear.

You could do worse than go off and look at some papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...esponse+linear

Ah! Ta. Looks linear over normal dose rates.

If the dietary effect is only 10%, I think I will ignore my wife's
mutterings:-)

I've heard the same 10percent-ish thing too.

I went to the surgery for something else and had a
while-you-are-here-we-might-as-well-give-you-a bloodtest which proved
a little high in the cholesterol stakes.

As it happened, it came after a week of unusual over-indulgence in
high-cholesterol stuff so I asked if I could do it again after a more
normal spell. Well, I didn't go normal, I went non-cholesterol. I
spent an incredibly boring fortnight eating and drinking nothing
higher in cholesterol than lettuce, determined to drag the numbers
down.

I had another test.

It was higher.

Nick

On 04/05/2013 14:54, Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/05/2013 14:50, polygonum wrote:
On 04/05/2013 14:36, Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/05/2013 14:26, Terry Fields wrote:
On Sat, 04 May 2013 13:21:05 +0100, RayL12 wrote:

On 04/05/2013 1:06 PM, polygonum wrote:

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.

And anyone with arthritis might like to try avoiding tomatoes and
sweet peppers.

Not heard that one before. Would you care to elaborate?


It will be the deadly nightshade family issue.

However, I have to question why the namers of these things emphasise
"deadly nightshade" rather then the relatively neutral "Solanaceae" or
subfamily "Solanoideae"?

That also includes potatoes. I haven't heard this kooky "theory" tho.

And tobacco.
And chillis.

An easy reference:

http://arthritis.about.com/b/2006/09...hade-foods.htm

From my position in the universe, I have suspicions about the theory.

--
Rod

On 04/05/13 13:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 04/05/13 13:21, RayL12 wrote:
On 04/05/2013 1:06 PM, polygonum wrote:
On 04/05/2013 12:58, RayL12 wrote:
On 03/05/2013 9:41 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was
left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it
a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found
4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


You can spend 6 - 7 years of your life learning nutrition and it
will
all boil down to a simple formula; eat fresh veg' and fruit.

Processed 'anything' is junk.

Too much fruit can be a problem - all that fructose (and, indeed,
sucrose in some fruit).

Lots of vegetables can be problematical for some people - e.g those
which have goitrogenic effects.

I have no doubt that that is true. Though, I struggle to accept it
as a condition considering that humankind evolved from eating just
those things.

I am not sure that is correct. Man probably evolved eating fruit,
nuts and meat/fish.

vegetables came later.

Don't bother, chaps; we have another nutter in our midst.

no, a soothsayer

http://tolweb.org/treehouses/?treehouse_id=4446

humans only became vegetarian under extreme population pressure.
Although some vegeable matter has always been a part of the diet.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On Sat, 04 May 2013 12:58:55 +0100, RayL12
wrote:


You can spend 6 - 7 years of your life learning nutrition and it will
all boil down to a simple formula; eat fresh veg' and fruit.

Ah yes, those nice phalloides fungi followed by some nutritious raw
Lima and castor oil beans in the salad. Cheerful Abrus precatorius
beans will add some colour, Bitter almonds will make a tasty dessert
to go with the fruit of the Cerbera odollam, Euonymus atropurpureus
and Bittersweet Nightshade for more colour.

Processed 'anything' is junk.

Absolutely, kidney beans are just so much nicer fresh and uncooked.
Just like with manioc and cashew nuts that silly heating and boiling
process plays hell with the flavours.

In message , RayL12
writes
On 04/05/2013 7:57 AM, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.


I too have read such. One such 'theory' is for the body to re-balance
excess salt content by wrapping it in cholesterol.

That's interesting. The catering dept. criticise my adding table salt to
their offerings!


--
Tim Lamb

In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

--
Tim Lamb

On 04/05/2013 19:11, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 04 May 2013 12:58:55 +0100, RayL12
wrote:


You can spend 6 - 7 years of your life learning nutrition and it will
all boil down to a simple formula; eat fresh veg' and fruit.

Ah yes, those nice phalloides fungi followed by some nutritious raw
Lima and castor oil beans in the salad. Cheerful Abrus precatorius
beans will add some colour, Bitter almonds will make a tasty dessert
to go with the fruit of the Cerbera odollam, Euonymus atropurpureus
and Bittersweet Nightshade for more colour.

Processed 'anything' is junk.

Absolutely, kidney beans are just so much nicer fresh and uncooked.
Just like with manioc and cashew nuts that silly heating and boiling
process plays hell with the flavours.

Let alone that tomatoes increase in lycopene content which enhances
their anti-cancer potency.

--
Rod