There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.
--
Tim Lamb

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

--
Peter Crosland

On Fri, 03 May 2013 22:32:57 +0100, Peter Crosland
wrote:

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

_Especially_ uk.d-i-y !


--
Frank Erskine

In message , Peter
Crosland writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

Yes. However, they may already have asked more pertinent questions than
I did in the allotted 10mins. Some of them may have a better scientific
understanding of the answers:-)


--
Tim Lamb

On 04/05/2013 08:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Peter
Crosland writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

Yes. However, they may already have asked more pertinent questions than
I did in the allotted 10mins. Some of them may have a better scientific
understanding of the answers:-)

If you feel the basic ten minute appointment is too short you can ask
for a longer one. Any GP practice thas does not do that is not doing
their job adeqautely. Without a full medical history no doctor, let
alone amateur "experts" on a NG are in a position to give valid advice.
To emphasise the point it really is extremly foolish to rely on
unqualified advice in the way you are trying to do.


--
Peter Crosland

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
news
On 04/05/2013 08:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Peter
Crosland writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

Yes. However, they may already have asked more pertinent questions than
I did in the allotted 10mins. Some of them may have a better scientific
understanding of the answers:-)

If you feel the basic ten minute appointment is too short you can ask for
a longer one. Any GP practice thas does not do that is not doing their job
adeqautely. Without a full medical history no doctor, let alone amateur
"experts" on a NG are in a position to give valid advice. To emphasise the
point it really is extremly foolish to rely on unqualified advice in the
way you are trying to do.

Trouble is that even GPs can leave a lot to be desired on the basics.

One I consulted because I could not see my regular GP in less than
a couple of weeks and I was in real pain, decided that I had pancreatitis
even tho there is a very specific test for that that showed I did not have
that. It turned out that the problem was just gallstones, something that
almost everyone has, tho they mostly don't cause any particular problem.

And even my regular GP is less than ideal too. Since I have had a heart
attack and a stent I see him every 6 months for a routine checkup and
he always checks the pulses in my ankles because there is a clear risk of
the same problem with the leg arterys as what caused the heart attack.

He can never find any pulse in my ankles and that always concerns him.

When I said that to the cardiologist, he pointed out that some people
have arterys quite deep in the ankles and they don't have a feelable
pulse there and that the pulse on the top of my feet are fine. When
I told the GP that he had said that, and he checked that for himself,
he still did the same thing on the next 6 monthly visit and I had to
tell him again. Bit of a worry.

When I got some pain in one foot, he decided that it was gout,
even tho it did not have the classic episodic effect that you get
with gout. When I asked him why it could not just be arthritis,
he just said 'yes, it could be'

I've also just recently come across something on our equivalent
of the BBC, in the specialist health program, that one of the
medications that I am on, Clopidigrel, has a very variable
ingestion effect if you eat much grapefruit or limes etc.
I do eat a lot of limes in the lemon and lime marmalade
that I make myself. Neither the GP who has had a heart
attack himself and is on the same medication as me, or
the cardiologist even mentioned that at all.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...198#transcript

IMO it makes a lot more sense to use as much information as
is conveniently available than just relying on what one doctor
says, particularly in areas where not all doctors agree.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
news
On 04/05/2013 08:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Peter
Crosland writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems
very unwise to say the least.

Yes. However, they may already have asked more pertinent questions than
I did in the allotted 10mins. Some of them may have a better scientific
understanding of the answers:-)

If you feel the basic ten minute appointment is too short you can ask for
a longer one. Any GP practice thas does not do that is not doing their
job adeqautely. Without a full medical history no doctor, let alone
amateur "experts" on a NG are in a position to give valid advice. To
emphasise the point it really is extremly foolish to rely on unqualified
advice in the way you are trying to do.

snip

My god how I pity your doctor, you must be a real PITA. And anyway, why see
the quack? You know far more than him, obviously.
Incidentally, the spelling of your blood clot inhibitor is Clopidogrel.

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is qualified
to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this seems very unwise
to say the least.

That's mad. There is plenty of good info available on anything now.

Rod Speed wrote:
"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of
6.8 and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

Surely this is something only your doctor or specialist nurse is
qualified to answer. Seeking advice on an Internet NG about this
seems very unwise to say the least.

That's mad. There is plenty of good info available on anything now.

Except when *you're* giving that 'info' - then it's about as trustworthy as
a live politician

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with a
few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after stopping
medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume treatment to
double check any noted changes.
--
Tim Lamb

I understand that you need less of a dose if you use Rosuvastatin (which I
use) as opposed to Simvastatin for example.

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

No idea, but I expect about as bad as any other animal fat.

You could always do a series of experiments on yourself to find out your
personal response to it if your doctor is prepared to cooperate - about
a month should be enough to reach equilibrium.

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

That data should be in the clinical trials or MSDS for the specific drug
but the dose response behaviour varies wildly with individuals depending
on how good their enzyme metabolism for destroying it is and the amount
of bergommotin they consume from other sources.

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you paid
for it and in some cases considerably less.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

No idea, but I expect about as bad as any other animal fat.

You could always do a series of experiments on yourself to find out
your personal response to it if your doctor is prepared to cooperate -
about a month should be enough to reach equilibrium.

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

That data should be in the clinical trials or MSDS for the specific
drug but the dose response behaviour varies wildly with individuals
depending on how good their enzyme metabolism for destroying it is and
the amount of bergommotin they consume from other sources.

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you
paid for it and in some cases considerably less.

Thanks for above. I was warned about grapefruit but not the actual
mechanism.

Somewhere back in my crop spraying days I remember spray can warnings
about *anti-choline esterase*. I still wonder what it meant!


--
Tim Lamb

On 04/05/2013 08:30, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

No idea, but I expect about as bad as any other animal fat.

You could always do a series of experiments on yourself to find out
your personal response to it if your doctor is prepared to cooperate -
about a month should be enough to reach equilibrium.

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

That data should be in the clinical trials or MSDS for the specific
drug but the dose response behaviour varies wildly with individuals
depending on how good their enzyme metabolism for destroying it is and
the amount of bergommotin they consume from other sources.

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you
paid for it and in some cases considerably less.

Thanks for above. I was warned about grapefruit but not the actual
mechanism.

Somewhere back in my crop spraying days I remember spray can warnings
about *anti-choline esterase*. I still wonder what it meant!



Nothing is ever simple...

J Pharm Sci. 2011 Sep;100(9):3843-53. doi: 10.1002/jps.22586. Epub 2011
Apr 24.
Differential effect of grapefruit juice on intestinal absorption of
statins due to inhibition of organic anion transporting polypeptide
and/or P-glycoprotein.
Shirasaka Y, Suzuki K, Nakanishi T, Tamai I.
Source

Faculty of Pharmacy, Institute of Medical, Pharmaceutical and Health
Sciences, Kanazawa University, Kakuma-machi, Kanazawa 920-1192, Japan.
Abstract

The purpose of this study is to examine the contributions of organic
anion transporting polypeptide (Oatp) and/or P-glycoprotein (P-gp) to
grapefruit juice (GFJ) interaction with two statins, pravastatin and
pitavastatin, which undergo negligible metabolism in rats. The two
statins were found to be substrates of both Oatp1a5 and Oatp2b1, whereas
pitavastatin, but not pravastatin, was a substrate of P-gp. The plasma
concentration of pravastatin after oral administration was significantly
decreased by GFJ and naringin, whereas that of pitavastatin was
significantly increased. Naringin inhibited Oatp1a5- and
Oatp2b1-mediated uptake of pravastatin and Oatp1a5-mediated, but not
Oatp2b1-mediated, uptake of pitavastatin. Naringin also inhibited
P-gp-mediated transport of pitavastatin. These results suggested that
the decrease of pravastatin absorption in the presence of GFJ is due to
the inhibitory effect of naringin on Oatp, whereas the increase of
pitavastatin is due to the inhibition of P-gp. These observations are
consistent with the results of in situ absorption studies. In
conclusion, Oatp and/or P-gp contribute to the intestinal absorption of
statins, and the differential effect of GFJ on pravastatin and
pitavastatin absorption is at least partly accounted for by the
different inhibitory effects of naringin on these transporters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21520088

There are another 55 papers indexed on PubMed for grapefruit and statin.
I believe there may be other issues as well. I rather liked that this
one varied by statin.

--
Rod

On 04/05/2013 08:30, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you
paid for it and in some cases considerably less.

Thanks for above. I was warned about grapefruit but not the actual
mechanism.

Somewhere back in my crop spraying days I remember spray can warnings
about *anti-choline esterase*. I still wonder what it meant!

I hope you are joking...

The short version is "Beware of Nerve Gas". PPE is essential.

They are targeted specifically at insect nervous systems but would do
you no good at all if you got contaminated with them. Pinpoint pupils is
the first symptom of poisoning and requires urgent treatment.

Insecticide researchers stumbled across a new class of them. ICI's
Amiton aka VG was one of the first but was too toxic for safe use.

The very nasty area denial agent VX was a military research derivative
and the Germans in WWII were convinced that the allies had similar nerve
agents to Tabun and Sarin by the secrecy surrounding DDT.

http://www.aadet.com/article/VX_%28nerve_agent%29

Ones used as insecticides tended to be rapidly degraded in the
environment. Malathion and dimethoate among the more common ones.
Malathion has relatively low human toxicity for a nerve agent.

Too many insects are immune to them now so neonicotinoids are the new
flavour of the day. they are getting a bad rap for harming bees although
it is unclear to me if this is fair since many of the crops they are
used on are wind pollenated and do not attract bees!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 04/05/2013 08:30, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamottin

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.

Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you
paid for it and in some cases considerably less.

Thanks for above. I was warned about grapefruit but not the actual
mechanism.

Somewhere back in my crop spraying days I remember spray can warnings
about *anti-choline esterase*. I still wonder what it meant!

I hope you are joking...

Not really. Apart from a fully closed cab with active air filtering and
remote sprayer controls, PPE is difficult to achieve.

Direct contact with actives is simple but diluted volatiles find their
way into tractor cabs of my vintage. I'm still here so it can't have
been that bad although I still wonder about long term health effects.

The short version is "Beware of Nerve Gas". PPE is essential.

They are targeted specifically at insect nervous systems but would do
you no good at all if you got contaminated with them. Pinpoint pupils
is the first symptom of poisoning and requires urgent treatment.

Insecticide researchers stumbled across a new class of them. ICI's
Amiton aka VG was one of the first but was too toxic for safe use.

The very nasty area denial agent VX was a military research derivative
and the Germans in WWII were convinced that the allies had similar
nerve agents to Tabun and Sarin by the secrecy surrounding DDT.

http://www.aadet.com/article/VX_%28nerve_agent%29

Ones used as insecticides tended to be rapidly degraded in the
environment. Malathion and dimethoate among the more common ones.

I think Dimethoate was withdrawn years ago which was a pity as it was
about the only useful chemical for Crane Fly larvae. (Dursban).

Malathion has relatively low human toxicity for a nerve agent.

Too many insects are immune to them now so neonicotinoids are the new
flavour of the day. they are getting a bad rap for harming bees
although it is unclear to me if this is fair since many of the crops
they are used on are wind pollenated and do not attract bees!

I am out of touch now as I have stopped arable cropping. I have an idea
that the insecticide is applied to Rape seed so may still be slightly
active at flowering.


--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 04/05/2013 07:57, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

I believe there is quite some truth in that.

High cholesterol is often related to inadequate thyroid hormone. To the
extent that high cholesterol was used as an indicator of hypothyroidism
in the days before suitable blood tests were available.

Have no idea whatsoever about the pork slices you eat. At least read the
packet and tell us what they contain!

Almost nothing in medicine is strictly linear - so I would tend to
assume the response is not linear.

You could do worse than go off and look at some papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...esponse+linear

--
Rod

In message , polygonum
writes
On 04/05/2013 07:57, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

I believe there is quite some truth in that.

High cholesterol is often related to inadequate thyroid hormone. To the
extent that high cholesterol was used as an indicator of hypothyroidism
in the days before suitable blood tests were available.

Have no idea whatsoever about the pork slices you eat. At least read
the packet and tell us what they contain!

Almost nothing in medicine is strictly linear - so I would tend to
assume the response is not linear.

You could do worse than go off and look at some papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...esponse+linear

Ah! Ta. Looks linear over normal dose rates.

If the dietary effect is only 10%, I think I will ignore my wife's
mutterings:-)


--
Tim Lamb

On 04/05/2013 08:51, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , polygonum
writes
On 04/05/2013 07:57, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

I believe there is quite some truth in that.

High cholesterol is often related to inadequate thyroid hormone. To
the extent that high cholesterol was used as an indicator of
hypothyroidism in the days before suitable blood tests were available.

Have no idea whatsoever about the pork slices you eat. At least read
the packet and tell us what they contain!

Almost nothing in medicine is strictly linear - so I would tend to
assume the response is not linear.

You could do worse than go off and look at some papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...esponse+linear

Ah! Ta. Looks linear over normal dose rates.

If the dietary effect is only 10%, I think I will ignore my wife's
mutterings:-)


Although _I_ believe that fat in the diet is a relatively small part of
the equation, I do not expect anyone to follow my belief! :-)

I am in the luckier position of having low cholesterol levels so my
reading is more limited.

--
Rod

On Sat, 4 May 2013 08:51:38 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , polygonum
writes
On 04/05/2013 07:57, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

I believe there is quite some truth in that.

High cholesterol is often related to inadequate thyroid hormone. To the
extent that high cholesterol was used as an indicator of hypothyroidism
in the days before suitable blood tests were available.

Have no idea whatsoever about the pork slices you eat. At least read
the packet and tell us what they contain!

Almost nothing in medicine is strictly linear - so I would tend to
assume the response is not linear.

You could do worse than go off and look at some papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...esponse+linear

Ah! Ta. Looks linear over normal dose rates.

If the dietary effect is only 10%, I think I will ignore my wife's
mutterings:-)

I've heard the same 10percent-ish thing too.

I went to the surgery for something else and had a
while-you-are-here-we-might-as-well-give-you-a bloodtest which proved
a little high in the cholesterol stakes.

As it happened, it came after a week of unusual over-indulgence in
high-cholesterol stuff so I asked if I could do it again after a more
normal spell. Well, I didn't go normal, I went non-cholesterol. I
spent an incredibly boring fortnight eating and drinking nothing
higher in cholesterol than lettuce, determined to drag the numbers
down.

I had another test.

It was higher.

Nick

In message , John Williamson
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...
How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?
How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.
I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

Nor I:-)

Apparently cholesterol is largely created by the liver. Some people are
genetically disposed to create more than is necessary. My liver function
is suspect but an ultrasound check failed to find anything suspicious.
Very hard to convince the medical profession that you don't drink so
cirrhosis is unlikely:-)


--
Tim Lamb

On 04/05/2013 7:57 AM, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.


I too have read such. One such 'theory' is for the body to re-balance
excess salt content by wrapping it in cholesterol.

--
One click voting to change the world.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/
Join Now! Be a part of people power.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/
Biting the hand that feeds IT

On 04/05/2013 13:09, RayL12 wrote:
On 04/05/2013 7:57 AM, John Williamson wrote:

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.


Some is certainly generated, but how much varies with the individual.


I too have read such. One such 'theory' is for the body to re-balance
excess salt content by wrapping it in cholesterol.

That is pure bovine excrement. If excess salt gets wrapped in anything
it is additional water retention leading to raised blood pressure.
(also a potentially life shortening condition)

I suggest you discount anything you have read on that website.
The net is full of kooks and nutters expounding crazy "THEORIES".

If you are lucky all in capitals is a good marker for a crazy KOOK.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 4 May, 14:34, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 04/05/2013 13:09, RayL12 wrote:

On 04/05/2013 *7:57 AM, John Williamson wrote:

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

Some is certainly generated, but how much varies with the individual.



* I too have read such. One such 'theory' is for the body to re-balance
excess salt content by wrapping it in cholesterol.

That is pure bovine excrement. If excess salt gets wrapped in anything
it is additional water retention leading to raised blood pressure.

Excess salt is excreted.

MBQ

On 04/05/2013 2:34 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/05/2013 13:09, RayL12 wrote:
On 04/05/2013 7:57 AM, John Williamson wrote:

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.


Some is certainly generated, but how much varies with the individual.


I too have read such. One such 'theory' is for the body to re-balance
excess salt content by wrapping it in cholesterol.

That is pure bovine excrement. If excess salt gets wrapped in anything
it is additional water retention leading to raised blood pressure.
(also a potentially life shortening condition)

I suggest you discount anything you have read on that website.
The net is full of kooks and nutters expounding crazy "THEORIES".

If you are lucky all in capitals is a good marker for a crazy KOOK.

I cannot argue with your knowledge. However, I don't believe the body
only ever developed that one method to reduce salt content. Odd that my
sister, all 7 stone of her, was advised to take water retention pills
for her cholesterol condition.

--
One click voting to change the world.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/
Join Now! Be a part of people power.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/
Biting the hand that feeds IT

In message , RayL12
writes
On 04/05/2013 7:57 AM, John Williamson wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total (2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8
and 7.2 total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.


I too have read such. One such 'theory' is for the body to re-balance
excess salt content by wrapping it in cholesterol.

That's interesting. The catering dept. criticise my adding table salt to
their offerings!


--
Tim Lamb

On Sat, 04 May 2013 09:57:38 +0000, Huge wrote:

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

S'what my quack said.

Mine said 80/20 body/diet.

--
Terry Fields

Terry Fields wrote
Huge wrote

I am not a medical expert, but I've read that only about 10% of the
cholesterol in your blood is directly due to your diet, the rest is
internally generated. I could be wrong, of course.

S'what my quack said.

Mine said 80/20 body/diet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol#Physiology

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Choles...holesterol+con

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Colin Bignell

In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

It's still one tablet per dose of a convenient size for swallowing. The
fact that there is only half the amount of active ingredient is balanced
by the fact that the ingredient is roughly twice as effective per
milligramme.

The reaction to statin doses doesn't seem to be linear, either, with a
noticeable threshold in my case, at least. Half the normal dose does
nothing, the full dose brings on all the side effects and no apparent
benefits, with every statin and Fibrate I've tried. I didn't dare try a
larger dose.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

It's still one tablet per dose of a convenient size for swallowing. The
fact that there is only half the amount of active ingredient is balanced
by the fact that the ingredient is roughly twice as effective per
milligramme.

The reaction to statin doses doesn't seem to be linear, either, with a
noticeable threshold in my case, at least. Half the normal dose does
nothing, the full dose brings on all the side effects and no apparent
benefits, with every statin and Fibrate I've tried. I didn't dare try a
larger dose.

I can't say that I've noticed any side-effects, maybe I should quit for a
while and see.

bm wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message
The reaction to statin doses doesn't seem to be linear, either, with a
noticeable threshold in my case, at least. Half the normal dose does
nothing, the full dose brings on all the side effects and no apparent
benefits, with every statin and Fibrate I've tried. I didn't dare try a
larger dose.

I can't say that I've noticed any side-effects, maybe I should quit for a
while and see.


Don't bother. Go with your doctor's recommendation as I did.

I'm a very rare case, apparently, my doctor said I was the first he'd
met who'd had *any* side effects. If you've not noticed any, then don't
worry, as 99+% of all patients don't suffer them.

They are a very effective medicine if you're on the right one for you,
and side effects, while possible, are rare.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"bm" wrote in message
eb.com...

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

It's still one tablet per dose of a convenient size for swallowing. The
fact that there is only half the amount of active ingredient is balanced
by the fact that the ingredient is roughly twice as effective per
milligramme.

The reaction to statin doses doesn't seem to be linear, either, with a
noticeable threshold in my case, at least. Half the normal dose does
nothing, the full dose brings on all the side effects and no apparent
benefits, with every statin and Fibrate I've tried. I didn't dare try a
larger dose.

I can't say that I've noticed any side-effects,

I know I didn’t.

maybe I should quit for a while and see.

I could do that because my cholesterol levels were always
low. The current protocol suggest that there are benefits from
even lower tho, that’s why the cardiologist put me on it with the
other stuff that’s the standard post heart attack/stent protocol here.

On 04/05/2013 19:18, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

Changing to Rosuvastatin should give you the same effect as Atorvastatin
at half the dose. NICE doesn't like that though, as it is the most
expensive option.

Colin Bignell

On 05/05/2013 11:00, Nightjar wrote:
On 04/05/2013 19:18, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

Changing to Rosuvastatin should give you the same effect as Atorvastatin
at half the dose. NICE doesn't like that though, as it is the most
expensive option.

Colin Bignell

Don't think it is any mo

http://www.pharmafile.com/news/17249...ric-lipitor-uk

Have not checked NICE pronouncements since then.

--
Rod

On 05/05/2013 12:33, polygonum wrote:
On 05/05/2013 11:00, Nightjar wrote:
On 04/05/2013 19:18, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

Changing to Rosuvastatin should give you the same effect as Atorvastatin
at half the dose. NICE doesn't like that though, as it is the most
expensive option.

Colin Bignell

Don't think it is any mo

http://www.pharmafile.com/news/17249...ric-lipitor-uk


Have not checked NICE pronouncements since then.

Oops - comes of not reading properly - apologies - Rosuvastatin is still
much more expensive.

--
Rod

In message , Nightjar
writes
On 04/05/2013 19:18, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

Changing to Rosuvastatin should give you the same effect as
Atorvastatin at half the dose. NICE doesn't like that though, as it is
the most expensive option.

There's a surprise:-)

My doctor was very unreceptive when I suggested exploring the reasons my
liver is churning out the stuff. One site I found was expounding the
idea that copper deficiency could be a cause.

However, as Peter warns, better leave health decisions to the
professionals.

--
Tim Lamb

On 05/05/2013 19:17, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 04/05/2013 19:18, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 03/05/2013 21:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left
with
a few unanswered questions...

How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a
very
convenient source of sandwich filling?

How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2
total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.

If you are on Simvastatin, you could request a change to Atorvastatin,
which should be as effective at half the dose.

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

Changing to Rosuvastatin should give you the same effect as
Atorvastatin at half the dose. NICE doesn't like that though, as it is
the most expensive option.

There's a surprise:-)

My doctor was very unreceptive when I suggested exploring the reasons my
liver is churning out the stuff. One site I found was expounding the
idea that copper deficiency could be a cause.

However, as Peter warns, better leave health decisions to the
professionals.

I too have seen the copper suggestion - no idea if it has good evidence.

In my book, everyone with high cholesterol should have their thyroid
levels tested. It is a prime cause of high cholesterol levels. And
something like 3% of us do have thyroid issues. (Some argue much higher
numbers - that 3% is based on "currently treated with thyroid hormone".)

--
Rod