We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

On contacting the supplier, the advice I got was that they don't care
if I pull the consumer fuse (to facilitate a re-wiring) but they'll
need a cert. of conformity from a spark to replace the seals (fair
enough).

However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.

A picture of the meter board can be found he

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/

Can anyone give any clues to the configuration?

All the consumer fuses I have seen have had a single seal. Also what
is the black wire coming out of the top of the earth terminal likely
to be?

I didn't post make a picture of the consumer unit available as I
didn't want to scare anyone.

Chris.

"Chris" wrote
| However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.
| A picture of the meter board can be found he
| http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/
| Can anyone give any clues to the configuration?
| All the consumer fuses I have seen have had a single seal.

That's perfectly normal. The left 3 sealed compartments are the phases, for
a 3-phase incomer. Only one (red) is used in this single phase installation,
the one on the right (black) is the neutral.

| Also what is the black wire coming out of the top of the earth terminal
| likely to be?

An earth to something...?

| I didn't post make a picture of the consumer unit available as I
| didn't want to scare anyone.

Oh, please do!

Owain

Chris wrote:

We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

On contacting the supplier, the advice I got was that they don't care
if I pull the consumer fuse (to facilitate a re-wiring) but they'll
need a cert. of conformity from a spark to replace the seals (fair
enough).

However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.

A picture of the meter board can be found he

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/

Can anyone give any clues to the configuration?

All the consumer fuses I have seen have had a single seal. Also what
is the black wire coming out of the top of the earth terminal likely
to be?

I didn't post make a picture of the consumer unit available as I
didn't want to scare anyone.

Chris.

You have a three phase supply with a single phase meter attached. Not a
problem. Just pull the right hand fuse. The one in line with the red wire
feeding the meter.

When you have re-wired just bung the fuse back in. The meter readers are
the only ones to see it and they are often contracted out readers and
won't be at all concerned if there is a seal missing. My board fuse was
unsealed for years (1982 til 2001). When leccy board came to fit a new
meter a couple of years ago I asked the chap to fit a seal which he did
without a query.

Good Luck

Bob

"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
...
We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

On contacting the supplier, the advice I got was that they don't care
if I pull the consumer fuse (to facilitate a re-wiring) but they'll
need a cert. of conformity from a spark to replace the seals (fair
enough).

However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.

A picture of the meter board can be found he

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/

Can anyone give any clues to the configuration?

All the consumer fuses I have seen have had a single seal. Also what
is the black wire coming out of the top of the earth terminal likely
to be?

I didn't post make a picture of the consumer unit available as I
didn't want to scare anyone.

Chris.



The system head is a three phase looped supply. The black wire coming from
the top is the neutral connection from the supply.

There are two separate systems connected from the consumer side of the
meter, hence the grey double insulated cables heading off to the right of
the picture and then the other red and black ones which go off to the left
and then upward. Both are from the consumer side of the meter.

The meter is only connected to one consumer fuse on the right hand side of
the three phase head and is only sealed by one tag, so this would be the one
you'd pull out when you go ahead with your rewire.

The earthing bonds are provided into the bottom of the white box on the
right hand side of the supply head and the main connections have be taken to
the steel armour of the mains supply cables. The consumer side earth
bonding is provided by the green/yellow cables coming the top terminals of
the white box.

Any clearer ?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:10:56 +0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:

Chris wrote:

We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

SNIP
You have a three phase supply with a single phase meter attached. Not a
problem. Just pull the right hand fuse. The one in line with the red wire
feeding the meter.

When you have re-wired just bung the fuse back in. The meter readers are
the only ones to see it and they are often contracted out readers and
won't be at all concerned if there is a seal missing. My board fuse was
unsealed for years (1982 til 2001). When leccy board came to fit a new
meter a couple of years ago I asked the chap to fit a seal which he did
without a query.

Good Luck

Bob


Thanks Bob. Will anyone be unduly upset if I remove the lower seal on
the meter to replace the tails? (If required)

The consumer unit is a museum piece and the tails aren't well routed.

Also, i'm assuming that it's ok that the are a pair of tails from the
meter. One (going off to the left) is the main CU and the off to right
is a secondary CU (not sure for what yet, probably either an immersion
or the garage). Would it be better to split this via a Henley block
instead?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:27:42 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
.. .
We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
SNIP

Any clearer ?

No, that's great thanks. Never encountered a three phase head before.

Thanks for the help.

Chris wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:10:56 +0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:

Chris wrote:

We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

SNIP
You have a three phase supply with a single phase meter attached. Not a
problem. Just pull the right hand fuse. The one in line with the red wire
feeding the meter.

When you have re-wired just bung the fuse back in. The meter readers are
the only ones to see it and they are often contracted out readers and
won't be at all concerned if there is a seal missing. My board fuse was
unsealed for years (1982 til 2001). When leccy board came to fit a new
meter a couple of years ago I asked the chap to fit a seal which he did
without a query.

Good Luck

Bob


Thanks Bob. Will anyone be unduly upset if I remove the lower seal on
the meter to replace the tails? (If required)

The consumer unit is a museum piece and the tails aren't well routed.

Also, i'm assuming that it's ok that the are a pair of tails from the
meter. One (going off to the left) is the main CU and the off to right
is a secondary CU (not sure for what yet, probably either an immersion
or the garage). Would it be better to split this via a Henley block
instead?

I really dont think anyone will worry about missing seals.I remove all when I
re-wired in1982. I shortened the overhead cable, moved the meter from the wall
in the hall to the garage, added an isolation switch and put the CUs upstairs
in a 'mission control' walk-in cupboard.

Good idea to put the henley block in possibly leaving a spare way for even
further expansion. They might get a bit excitable if the henley block is
before the meter !!

Good luck

Bob

Thanks Bob. Will anyone be unduly upset if I remove the lower seal on
the meter to replace the tails? (If required)

Just call up the electric co. and ask them to do a check for safety / fit
isolator... they`ll replace the tails for you, and should provide a
double pole isolator so you can switch off your side of the installation.

The tatty tails to the meter are the responsibility of the electric co.
(you have no "official" access to them as they`re sealed, so they should
do it) - free of charge of course.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
* old email address "btiruseless" abandoned due to worm-generated spam *
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:10:56 UTC, Bob Minchin
wrote:

Chris wrote:
A picture of the meter board can be found he

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/

Can anyone give any clues to the configuration?

You have a three phase supply with a single phase meter attached. Not a
problem. Just pull the right hand fuse. The one in line with the red wire
feeding the meter.

As a matter of interest, would there be any advantage in pulling the
neutral fuse as well? Is there any circumstance where this would be
safer/less safe?
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...

As a matter of interest, would there be any advantage in pulling the
neutral fuse as well? Is there any circumstance where this would be
safer/less safe?

Neutrals can have isolating switches
(ganged with the live side)
but never fuses

Broken neutral is (thinks hard) probably
the worst fault you can have

Neutrals can have isolating switches
(ganged with the live side)
but never fuses

Old iron clad "isco" cutouts (amongst others) had a fused neutral.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
* old email address "btiruseless" abandoned due to worm-generated spam *
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
Neutrals can have isolating switches
(ganged with the live side)
but never fuses

Old iron clad "isco" cutouts (amongst others) had a fused neutral.

I know - SEC had a laugh a few years back
when they took ours out
must have weighed as much as me

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:27:42 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
.. .
We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

SNIP

The system head is a three phase looped supply. The black wire coming from
the top is the neutral connection from the supply.


It was the black wire coming from the top of the white earth
connection block I was in doubt about. Any ideas?

"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:27:42 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
.. .
We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

SNIP

The system head is a three phase looped supply. The black wire coming
from
the top is the neutral connection from the supply.


It was the black wire coming from the top of the white earth
connection block I was in doubt about. Any ideas?



If you look at it carefully, you'll see that the black from the top of the
white earth terminal is actually appearing as green/yellow cable from the
left hand side at the back of the wooden board, so I would take it the black
is only insulating tape wrapped around the green/yellow cable.


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release Date: 10/11/03

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:58:23 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"Chris" wrote
| However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.
| A picture of the meter board can be found he
| http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/
| Can anyone give any clues to the configuration?
| All the consumer fuses I have seen have had a single seal.

That's perfectly normal. The left 3 sealed compartments are the phases, for
a 3-phase incomer. Only one (red) is used in this single phase installation,
the one on the right (black) is the neutral.

| Also what is the black wire coming out of the top of the earth terminal
| likely to be?

An earth to something...?

| I didn't post make a picture of the consumer unit available as I
| didn't want to scare anyone.

Oh, please do!

Owain


Seeing as you said please...... same URL (give it a few hours before
it becomes available).

Chris

"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
...
We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

On contacting the supplier, the advice I got was that they don't care
if I pull the consumer fuse (to facilitate a re-wiring) but they'll
need a cert. of conformity from a spark to replace the seals (fair
enough).

However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.

A picture of the meter board can be found he

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/


Try as I might- can't get the link to work ((

*wants to see*

Tim..

"Chris" wrote
| | I didn't post make a picture of the consumer unit available
| | as I didn't want to scare anyone.
| Oh, please do!
| Seeing as you said please...... same URL (give it a few hours before
| it becomes available).

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/inde...s/image004.jpg

I think that's where your enigma black earth wire goes :-)

I've seen worse. Far, far worse. It's when the fuse boxes are wood and the
main switch is 2 5A tumbler switches with the dollies linked by a bar, then
you know you've got an antiquity on your hands.

Owain

"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:10:56 +0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:

Chris wrote:

We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

SNIP
You have a three phase supply with a single phase meter attached. Not a
problem. Just pull the right hand fuse. The one in line with the red wire
feeding the meter.

When you have re-wired just bung the fuse back in. The meter readers are
the only ones to see it and they are often contracted out readers and
won't be at all concerned if there is a seal missing. My board fuse was
unsealed for years (1982 til 2001). When leccy board came to fit a new
meter a couple of years ago I asked the chap to fit a seal which he did
without a query.

Good Luck

Bob


Thanks Bob. Will anyone be unduly upset if I remove the lower seal on
the meter to replace the tails? (If required)

The consumer unit is a museum piece and the tails aren't well routed.

Also, i'm assuming that it's ok that the are a pair of tails from the
meter. One (going off to the left) is the main CU and the off to right
is a secondary CU (not sure for what yet, probably either an immersion
or the garage). Would it be better to split this via a Henley block
instead?


Definitely a Henley block. Had a similar problem just this week. Supplier
came to change a 3 ph meter with 2 sets of tails. Engineer said it was
against regulations. Fitted Henley blocks so that only one set of tails was
connected to the meter.
Nic.

"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:58:23 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"Chris" wrote
| However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.
| A picture of the meter board can be found he
| http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/
| Can anyone give any clues to the configuration?
| All the consumer fuses I have seen have had a single seal.

That's perfectly normal. The left 3 sealed compartments are the phases,
for
a 3-phase incomer. Only one (red) is used in this single phase
installation,
the one on the right (black) is the neutral.

| Also what is the black wire coming out of the top of the earth terminal
| likely to be?

An earth to something...?

| I didn't post make a picture of the consumer unit available as I
| didn't want to scare anyone.

Oh, please do!

Owain


Seeing as you said please...... same URL (give it a few hours before
it becomes available).

Chris



It's not that bad actually. I've seen worse. You've got an easy job there
mate. :-))

"Tim.." wrote in message
...

"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
...
We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

On contacting the supplier, the advice I got was that they don't care
if I pull the consumer fuse (to facilitate a re-wiring) but they'll
need a cert. of conformity from a spark to replace the seals (fair
enough).

However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.

A picture of the meter board can be found he

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/


Try as I might- can't get the link to work ((

*wants to see*

Tim..



If you're getting to the page OK, just wait a while and the pictures appear
eventually.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:19:19 +0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:

Chris wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:10:56 +0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:

Chris wrote:

We are about to move house and one of the things that came up one the
survey was the wiring was in a shocking state. We went round for
another look today and sure enough it is.

SNIP
You have a three phase supply with a single phase meter attached. Not a
problem. Just pull the right hand fuse. The one in line with the red wire
feeding the meter.

When you have re-wired just bung the fuse back in. The meter readers are
the only ones to see it and they are often contracted out readers and
won't be at all concerned if there is a seal missing. My board fuse was
unsealed for years (1982 til 2001). When leccy board came to fit a new
meter a couple of years ago I asked the chap to fit a seal which he did
without a query.

Good Luck

Bob


Thanks Bob. Will anyone be unduly upset if I remove the lower seal on
the meter to replace the tails? (If required)

The consumer unit is a museum piece and the tails aren't well routed.

Also, i'm assuming that it's ok that the are a pair of tails from the
meter. One (going off to the left) is the main CU and the off to right
is a secondary CU (not sure for what yet, probably either an immersion
or the garage). Would it be better to split this via a Henley block
instead?

I really dont think anyone will worry about missing seals.I remove all when I
re-wired in1982. I shortened the overhead cable, moved the meter from the wall
in the hall to the garage, added an isolation switch and put the CUs upstairs
in a 'mission control' walk-in cupboard.

Good idea to put the henley block in possibly leaving a spare way for even
further expansion. They might get a bit excitable if the henley block is
before the meter !!

Good luck

Bob

When you talk of an isolation switch, I presume you mean a 100A double
pole DIN mounting type in a 2 way enclosure?

Chris

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:04:41 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Chris" -o-m wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:58:23 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"Chris" wrote
| However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.
| A picture of the meter board can be found he
| http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/
| Can anyone give any clues to the configuration?
| All the consumer fuses I have seen have had a single seal.

That's perfectly normal. The left 3 sealed compartments are the phases,
for
a 3-phase incomer. Only one (red) is used in this single phase
installation,
the one on the right (black) is the neutral.

| Also what is the black wire coming out of the top of the earth terminal
| likely to be?

An earth to something...?

| I didn't post make a picture of the consumer unit available as I
| didn't want to scare anyone.

Oh, please do!

Owain


Seeing as you said please...... same URL (give it a few hours before
it becomes available).

Chris



It's not that bad actually. I've seen worse. You've got an easy job there
mate. :-))



I'm looking forward to it actually, we have been moving house for what
seems like ages (it's taken longer than expected as there was a baby
in the middle). I've been starved of any real DIY for months since we
got our house ready to put on the market.

It's sometimes nice to have a 'blank canvass' to go at.

Many thanks for the advice.

Chris

However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.

A picture of the meter board can be found he

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/

I remember seeing one place where the elctrickery looked like it was
circa WW1. Yes, WW One. There was an iron box on the wall which opened
(no lock or anything, it was just hanging open) to reveal 2 bare fuse
wires screwed in place at each end, no carrier, no insulation etc. And
as far as I could see, fuse-wise, that was yer lot mate.


Regards, NT

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.

A picture of the meter board can be found he

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/

I remember seeing one place where the elctrickery looked like it was
circa WW1. Yes, WW One. There was an iron box on the wall which opened
(no lock or anything, it was just hanging open) to reveal 2 bare fuse
wires screwed in place at each end, no carrier, no insulation etc. And
as far as I could see, fuse-wise, that was yer lot mate.


Regards, NT

Believe it or not, I was in an old property on the outskirts of Edinburgh
just last week, and it had the same set up you have just described in there.
Took a while to find a point to tapp off for the alarm system spur because
it still has cloth covered paper insulated cables inside rusty conduit. I
didn't think there was still places that had this old style installation
anymore. Wonderful what we had to work with in those days eh ?

"BigWallop" wrote in message ...
"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...

However, the consumer fuse is not like one I've come across before.
A picture of the meter board can be found he
http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/


I remember seeing one place where the elctrickery looked like it was
circa WW1. Yes, WW One. There was an iron box on the wall which opened
(no lock or anything, it was just hanging open) to reveal 2 bare fuse
wires screwed in place at each end, no carrier, no insulation etc. And
as far as I could see, fuse-wise, that was yer lot mate.


Believe it or not, I was in an old property on the outskirts of Edinburgh
just last week, and it had the same set up you have just described in there.
Took a while to find a point to tapp off for the alarm system spur because
it still has cloth covered paper insulated cables inside rusty conduit. I
didn't think there was still places that had this old style installation
anymore. Wonderful what we had to work with in those days eh ?


Yeah. Its strange how these little time warps manage to still exist. I
remember a cinema that had been equipped in 1942, and one section of
it hadn't changed any since. It was like time travel. It was equipped
with arc lights, no less. One of the staff had even spotted some of
the equipment they were still using in a museum

Attaching anything to installs like these is a danger in itself. Move
the wires half an inch and up they could go. I dont think I'd try to
tap off any of the existing circuits, and I wouldn't install anything
that needed an earth.

It was one thing installing paper wire and so on in 1908 when it was
in sound condition, but to have such a setup still operating 95 years
later, after all the deterioration that time brings, is another. I've
seen the odd dated installation that would have been condemned even in
1930, yet is still in use today.

Cloth/rubber flexes that had fallen apart and become bare to touch
have always been a no-no, and periodic inspection of early electrical
kit was always strongly advised. Yet there are houses around today
that don't take even those most basic precautions. There is the
occasional place where its a wonder they get the lights to come on,
let alone survive the process.


Regards, NT

Owain wrote:
"Chris" wrote
| | I didn't post make a picture of the consumer unit available
| | as I didn't want to scare anyone.
| Oh, please do!
| Seeing as you said please...... same URL (give it a few hours before
| it becomes available).

http://www.chrisj.dsl.pipex.com/inde...s/image004.jpg

I think that's where your enigma black earth wire goes :-)

I've seen worse. Far, far worse. It's when the fuse boxes are wood and the
main switch is 2 5A tumbler switches with the dollies linked by a bar, then
you know you've got an antiquity on your hands.

Yes, I think I agree. If that was clean and straight I don't think
most people would bat an eyelid.

--
Chris Green )