On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:35:21 +0000 (GMT)
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 23:23:11 +0000, Davey wrote:

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow
slits across the tread pattern

I thought they were called "sipes"?

I think you're right.

Yep brain fade into "little cuts" being "snips".

'Snipes' are large birds,

Sea shore wader, often seen in groups running up and down the beach
chased by waves. Wouldn't call 'em large, small/medium.


Agreed.

Do a Search for 'Snipe', I had no idea there were so many meanings/uses
for the word.
--
Davey.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:50:40 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 21/11/12 00:35, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available
for my car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the season;
most people around here keep a second set of wheels and just swap
those over instead (and nice alloys for the summer if the car has
them and whatever cheap and crappy junkyard steel wheels will fit
for the winter)

cheers

Jules

I am running M&S all year round
On the land rover


Marks and Spencer sell wheels for Land Rovers?
--
Davey.

On 21/11/2012 09:22, harry wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:11 pm, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

--
Rod

The alternative is ti nip down the scrappy and get a couple of spare
wheels and fit some really knobbly mud and snow tyres.

Chains can bugger your tires up if you drive on the highway. Haven't
seen any for sale for years anyway.
Or buy a Subaru.

Umm, I take it you did not follow the link in my original post? Or you
closed your eyes when the page opened?

And more than one person has pointed out how expensive a set of
M&S/Knobbly tyres are - especially when considering this offer.

--
Rod

ARW wrote:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg
I had a day off work that day.

I was living in deepest Aberdeenshire then:
http://pics.mdfs.net/2010/11/101103.htm

To collect my car in Sheffield and get it back I bought some
snow chains, but never needed them, I found that careful slow
low-gear driving was adequate. I suppose I was lucky in having
my driving lessons in similar weather, so I had instructed
experience.

JGH

On 21/11/12 08:35, Dave Liquorice wrote:


Sea shore wader, often seen in groups running up and down the beach
chased by waves. Wouldn't call 'em large, small/medium.


That's Feminus Essexus, the well known 'Essex Girl'


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 21/11/12 10:15, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:50:40 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 21/11/12 00:35, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available
for my car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the season;
most people around here keep a second set of wheels and just swap
those over instead (and nice alloys for the summer if the car has
them and whatever cheap and crappy junkyard steel wheels will fit
for the winter)

cheers

Jules

I am running M&S all year round
On the land rover


Marks and Spencer sell wheels for Land Rovers?

No. They dont.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article
,
jgharston wrote:
ARW wrote:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg
I had a day off work that day.

I was living in deepest Aberdeenshire then:
http://pics.mdfs.net/2010/11/101103.htm

To collect my car in Sheffield and get it back I bought some
snow chains, but never needed them, I found that careful slow
low-gear driving was adequate. I suppose I was lucky in having
my driving lessons in similar weather, so I had instructed
experience.

the trouble is the other people who haven't learned to drive in snow.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 21/11/12 11:00, polygonum wrote:
On 21/11/2012 09:22, harry wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:11 pm, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

--
Rod

The alternative is ti nip down the scrappy and get a couple of spare
wheels and fit some really knobbly mud and snow tyres.

Chains can bugger your tires up if you drive on the highway. Haven't
seen any for sale for years anyway.
Or buy a Subaru.

Umm, I take it you did not follow the link in my original post? Or you
closed your eyes when the page opened?

And more than one person has pointed out how expensive a set of
M&S/Knobbly tyres are - especially when considering this offer.

No. They were cheaper than the worn out Michelins they replaced.
M&S feature hard rubber and deep treads and work best on narrow wheels.

As such they don't have formula one grip levels on hot dry tarmac, and
neither are they as quiet as 'performance slicks with just enough legal
sipes to fool the MOT' that are fitted to performance saloons.

BUT if you are not interested in using the road as a race track, and
don't mind a small amount of road hum at 85mph, they are perfectly
usable all year round and no more expensive. In fact when I sold the
defender with its original M & S tyres still on after 50,000 miles I
realised how cheap they were in terms of cost per mile.

A cheap hard rubber M & S tyre is a very useful replacement to put on a
family car.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"polygonum" wrote in message ...

I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before last
(IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level roads
were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my deep
ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some snow
chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from impossible
to manageable?


I live in North Yorkshire and STWNFI used to have to drive over 12 miles of
untreated moor road every day so know a thing or two about getting about in
snow and ice.

Proper winter tyres are fantastic. On snow and ice STWNFI's Forester fitted
with Vredestein winter tyres out performs my Land Rover with M&S tyres by a
very wide margin, unless the snow was so deep that it built up under the car
lifting the wheels off the road! The Land rovers higher ground clearance
then helped, but traction was still poor.

I have used chains, and even the easy fit ones shown in the Lidl advert are
a PITA to fit. My son lived on an estate with an uphill exit route which was
never treated. He bought a set of "Snow socks" and demonstrated how easy
they are to fit. They got him (and a few neighbours that he lent them to)
out of the estate with no bother providing the snow was not so deep that it
built up under the car!

Mike

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:47:11 PM UTC, David WE Roberts wrote:
"polygonum" wrote in message
...

I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before last
(IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level roads
were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my deep
ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some snow
chains.

Winter tyres. Dogs ********.

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Winter tyres will do it, and will make the rest of the driving
safer too.

They [chains] do work wonderfully well in snow and you can easily drive
at 30mph but as soon as you get onto a road which has been gritted with
tarmac showing through you have to slow down to about 10mph just when
everyone else is starting to speed up.

You then have to find somewhere in all the snow and slush to take the
chains off without impeding the other traffic.

Your fingers freeze and you need some seriously waterproof trousers.

On the subject of M&S tyres - had them on the rear of the Volvo 760
and they were O.K. for a little mud or minor bits of snow but didn't
make an amazing difference over normal tyres.

That is certainly not my experience driving on packed snow in the
Black Forest. Proper winter tyres (which are mandatory there), made
it like driving on rails. I really wish I had known about them when
we lived in Suffolk - there was one corner I would slip a bit every
frosty morning.

We will fit ours before we go there at Christmas, and will drive on
them until after we get back from the Easter trip.

On 21/11/2012 11:00, polygonum wrote:
On 21/11/2012 09:22, harry wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:11 pm, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

--
Rod

The alternative is ti nip down the scrappy and get a couple of spare
wheels and fit some really knobbly mud and snow tyres.

Chains can bugger your tires up if you drive on the highway. Haven't
seen any for sale for years anyway.
Or buy a Subaru.

Umm, I take it you did not follow the link in my original post? Or you
closed your eyes when the page opened?

And more than one person has pointed out how expensive a set of
M&S/Knobbly tyres are - especially when considering this offer.

Many modern winter tyres don't look much like traditional M&S tyres and
my winter tyres are cheaper than the summer tyres, although they are
still over £100 each. Having said that, you won't lose much by buying
the Lidl snow chains and they might work well enough for your purposes.

Colin Bignell

On 21/11/12 14:10, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:47:11 PM UTC, David WE Roberts wrote:
"polygonum" wrote in message
...

I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before last
(IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level roads
were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my deep
ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some snow
chains.

Winter tyres. Dogs ********.

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Winter tyres will do it, and will make the rest of the driving
safer too.

They [chains] do work wonderfully well in snow and you can easily drive
at 30mph but as soon as you get onto a road which has been gritted with
tarmac showing through you have to slow down to about 10mph just when
everyone else is starting to speed up.

You then have to find somewhere in all the snow and slush to take the
chains off without impeding the other traffic.

Your fingers freeze and you need some seriously waterproof trousers.

On the subject of M&S tyres - had them on the rear of the Volvo 760
and they were O.K. for a little mud or minor bits of snow but didn't
make an amazing difference over normal tyres.

That is certainly not my experience driving on packed snow in the
Black Forest. Proper winter tyres (which are mandatory there), made
it like driving on rails. I really wish I had known about them when
we lived in Suffolk - there was one corner I would slip a bit every
frosty morning.

We will fit ours before we go there at Christmas, and will drive on
them until after we get back from the Easter trip.

I think the message I am getting is that not all winter tyres are the
same as M+S tyres and not all are created equal.

AND a lot depends on whether its dry snow - which you get a lot on the
continent - or packed sheet ice, which is what snow that's been driven
on gets to be after a few days of freeze/thaw in the UK..



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?


A couple of years ago I started using Winter tyres on my Saab 9-5 Aero
(260 HP, Auto, FWD) and it transformed it. With the Summer tyres it was
very very difficult to get anywhere on snow or ice but with the Winter
tyres the difference is astonishing. The Winter tyres have a lower speed
rating but that's not a practical problem; it's also not an insurance
issue because they're permitted in the car handbook.
I bought 4 wheels from a breaker (not expensive) and ordered the tyres
from a place in Germany ("Mytyres" on t'web, I think) for a reasonable
price. It takes about an hour to change the wheels/tyres twice a year (I
do it around the same time as the Germans have to change theirs) and the
only extra cost is a set of cheap wheels.
I bought some snow socks but haven't had to use them with the Winter tyres.

On 21/11/2012 15:44, Nospam wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?


A couple of years ago I started using Winter tyres on my Saab 9-5 Aero
(260 HP, Auto, FWD) and it transformed it. With the Summer tyres it was
very very difficult to get anywhere on snow or ice but with the Winter
tyres the difference is astonishing. The Winter tyres have a lower speed
rating but that's not a practical problem;

Most are H rated = 130mph, although some are V rated = 149mph.

it's also not an insurance
issue because they're permitted in the car handbook.

Some insurers do want to be notified that you have winter tyres fitted,
although most don't.

I bought 4 wheels from a breaker (not expensive) and ordered the tyres
from a place in Germany ("Mytyres" on t'web, I think) for a reasonable
price. It takes about an hour to change the wheels/tyres twice a year (I
do it around the same time as the Germans have to change theirs) and the
only extra cost is a set of cheap wheels.

I preferred to buy my tyres from my local tyre centre, who have been
supplying me for decades. Their price for wheels and tyres was was much
the same as buying on the web and they fit them for me.

I bought some snow socks but haven't had to use them with the Winter tyres.

While I agree with you, where can you buy a set of winter tyres for
under £20, which is all the OP is planning to spend?

Colin Bignell

On 21/11/2012 16:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 21/11/2012 15:44, Nospam wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?


A couple of years ago I started using Winter tyres on my Saab 9-5 Aero
(260 HP, Auto, FWD) and it transformed it. With the Summer tyres it was
very very difficult to get anywhere on snow or ice but with the Winter
tyres the difference is astonishing. The Winter tyres have a lower speed
rating but that's not a practical problem;

Most are H rated = 130mph, although some are V rated = 149mph.

it's also not an insurance
issue because they're permitted in the car handbook.

Some insurers do want to be notified that you have winter tyres fitted,
although most don't.

I bought 4 wheels from a breaker (not expensive) and ordered the tyres
from a place in Germany ("Mytyres" on t'web, I think) for a reasonable
price. It takes about an hour to change the wheels/tyres twice a year (I
do it around the same time as the Germans have to change theirs) and the
only extra cost is a set of cheap wheels.

I preferred to buy my tyres from my local tyre centre, who have been
supplying me for decades. Their price for wheels and tyres was was much
the same as buying on the web and they fit them for me.

I bought some snow socks but haven't had to use them with the Winter
tyres.

While I agree with you, where can you buy a set of winter tyres for
under £20, which is all the OP is planning to spend?

Colin Bignell

But it doesn't cost any more to have Winter tyres because the Summer
tyres aren't being worn when the Winter ones are fitted! The only cost
is the additional wheels and I think mine were £80 for 4 ex-Saab alloys,
plus a fiver each to get the tyres fitted to them.

In my particular case the Winter tyres (205/55 R16 91H) are the same
price as the Summer tyres (225/45R17 94W XL), about £100 each.

On 20/11/2012 22:10, Dave Liquorice wrote:

That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not a
lot will help on ice.

I would have expected chains to work on ice a bit like studded tyres.
A much higher pressure being applied per square inch of actual contact
area. For the price of the Lidl ones I'd sooner have them and not need
them than worry about having to spend 10 minutes fitting them and taking
them off at the end of a challenging/impossible hill.


--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Fitness+Gym Equipment.

On 21/11/2012 09:19, Nightjar wrote:

I can't say that I am convinced that snow socks work, at least not as
well as snow chains. I certainly wouldn't want to try to explain that
they do to a, probably harassed, French policeman who is telling me I
cannot drive any further.

Walk on ice in wooly socks.
I've seen 'em work very well but run winter treads all year round
without problem. I can get away with sub-optimal tread depth if it gets
tough as my van has 4motion + a rear diff lock though the electronic
"ESP" is phenomenal on snow/ice as it does it's basically computer
operated super intelligent "fiddle brake" system.

Now snow fear here.
8¬P

--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Fitness+Gym Equipment.
http://www.water-rower.co.uk

Dave Liquorice wrote:
polygonum wrote:
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!
You could have walked it in half that time, even on in snow.


Nah! Two (?) years ago now the snow was really bad here .
The snow on the pavement was calf /knee deep, progress on that was
a mile an hour (or even less at times). Walking on the road was the
only way to make any thing like reasonable progress but that involved
lots of trying to get out the road whenever a vehicle slithered past as
some brave sole decided to try and drive that bit.
Selfishly parked/abandoned cars reduced what was (potentially) a two
lane road to one lane (Lanark road) .
What I did notice was people in big cars etc getting stuck but the
old wifey next door in her KA was still putting about.

On 21/11/2012 18:25, soup wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
polygonum wrote:
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!
You could have walked it in half that time, even on in snow.


Nah! Two (?) years ago now the snow was really bad here .
The snow on the pavement was calf /knee deep, progress on that was
a mile an hour (or even less at times). Walking on the road was the
only way to make any thing like reasonable progress but that involved
lots of trying to get out the road whenever a vehicle slithered past as
some brave sole decided to try and drive that bit.
Selfishly parked/abandoned cars reduced what was (potentially) a two
lane road to one lane (Lanark road) .
What I did notice was people in big cars etc getting stuck but the
old wifey next door in her KA was still putting about.


In terms of distance, even with a bit of snow, walking could have been
faster. But walking would not have been viable:-

First bit, had no idea how bad it was. Could drive OK but traffic was solid.

Second bit, motorway, no walking!

Third bit, much delay due to (as soup said) abandoned vehicles, bus
right across road, etc. And anywhere that you might have been able to
park already had a vehicle parked up.

Fourth bit, find somewhere to park.

Then final walk home.

But until pretty much the end of the trip, I had no idea how bad the
next bit was going to be.

--
Rod

On 21/11/2012 16:58, Nospam wrote:
On 21/11/2012 16:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 21/11/2012 15:44, Nospam wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so
certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?


A couple of years ago I started using Winter tyres on my Saab 9-5 Aero
(260 HP, Auto, FWD) and it transformed it. With the Summer tyres it was
very very difficult to get anywhere on snow or ice but with the Winter
tyres the difference is astonishing. The Winter tyres have a lower speed
rating but that's not a practical problem;

Most are H rated = 130mph, although some are V rated = 149mph.

it's also not an insurance
issue because they're permitted in the car handbook.

Some insurers do want to be notified that you have winter tyres fitted,
although most don't.

I bought 4 wheels from a breaker (not expensive) and ordered the tyres
from a place in Germany ("Mytyres" on t'web, I think) for a reasonable
price. It takes about an hour to change the wheels/tyres twice a year (I
do it around the same time as the Germans have to change theirs) and the
only extra cost is a set of cheap wheels.

I preferred to buy my tyres from my local tyre centre, who have been
supplying me for decades. Their price for wheels and tyres was was much
the same as buying on the web and they fit them for me.

I bought some snow socks but haven't had to use them with the Winter
tyres.

While I agree with you, where can you buy a set of winter tyres for
under £20, which is all the OP is planning to spend?

Colin Bignell

But it doesn't cost any more to have Winter tyres because the Summer
tyres aren't being worn when the Winter ones are fitted! The only cost
is the additional wheels and I think mine were £80 for 4 ex-Saab alloys,
plus a fiver each to get the tyres fitted to them.

In my particular case the Winter tyres (205/55 R16 91H) are the same
price as the Summer tyres (225/45R17 94W XL), about £100 each.


Cost per mile of two sets of tyres is not significantly different. But
a) there is an up-front cost - of buying extra wheels and second set of
tyres; b) you need somewhere suitable to store the second set; c) try
buying winter tyres other than in October/November and you can be very
disappointed.

Right now I can see quite a few 175/60 R15 winter tyres - mostly
Nankang, Linglong, Hankook, Maxxis but a couple or so expensive
Continental and Goodyear. But previously when I have looked there have
been none actually available - listed, yes, in stock, no.

So twenty quid on Monday seemed (and still does seem) quite possibly
sensible.

--
Rod

In message , fred writes
In article , polygonum
writes
On 20/11/2012 21:29, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 20, 9:08 pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:





On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my car.

--
Rod

go on.... what size?

Jim K

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

If you want to try the winter tyres route then maybe play with the
sizes and aspect ratios eg:

215/55 is the same rolling radius as 195/60
205/55 is within 2% of 185/60

Playing round a little like this (and being very careful with making
sure that the new width is still ok for the rim) may get you fixed up
but of course 4 new winter tyres will cost a few bob more than some
Lidl chains.
Watch out for width changes on tyres. On LR Defenders you adjust the
steering stops otherwise wider tyres can rub on the chassis.
I had a jeep Garb Cherokee and for off-roading fitted 15 inch wheels
with tyres and MT tyres that gave the same radius but would just catch
the inside of the front wing on full lock.
--
bert

In message , Davey
writes
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:50:40 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 21/11/12 00:35, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available
for my car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the season;
most people around here keep a second set of wheels and just swap
those over instead (and nice alloys for the summer if the car has
them and whatever cheap and crappy junkyard steel wheels will fit
for the winter)

cheers

Jules

I am running M&S all year round
On the land rover


Marks and Spencer sell wheels for Land Rovers?
Well they sell (G) wagon wheels in their food stores
--
bert

On 21/11/2012 20:28, bert wrote:
In message , fred writes
In article , polygonum
writes
On 20/11/2012 21:29, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 20, 9:08 pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:





On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent
quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year
before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The
level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating
getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so
certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I
haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm
summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf
'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago
now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council
had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and
carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to
see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for
my car.

--
Rod

go on.... what size?

Jim K

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

If you want to try the winter tyres route then maybe play with the
sizes and aspect ratios eg:

215/55 is the same rolling radius as 195/60
205/55 is within 2% of 185/60

Playing round a little like this (and being very careful with making
sure that the new width is still ok for the rim) may get you fixed up
but of course 4 new winter tyres will cost a few bob more than some
Lidl chains.
Watch out for width changes on tyres. On LR Defenders you adjust the
steering stops otherwise wider tyres can rub on the chassis.
I had a jeep Garb Cherokee and for off-roading fitted 15 inch wheels
with tyres and MT tyres that gave the same radius but would just catch
the inside of the front wing on full lock.

You'd be wanting narrower tyres for snow anyway, wouldn't you?

SteveW

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 21/11/12 10:15, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:50:40 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 21/11/12 00:35, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available
for my car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the season;
most people around here keep a second set of wheels and just swap
those over instead (and nice alloys for the summer if the car has
them and whatever cheap and crappy junkyard steel wheels will fit
for the winter)

cheers

Jules

I am running M&S all year round
On the land rover


Marks and Spencer sell wheels for Land Rovers?

No. They dont.


But if they did ...

sorry, that's Heineken, isn't it



--
geoff

In article , SteveW
writes
On 21/11/2012 20:28, bert wrote:
In message , fred writes

If you want to try the winter tyres route then maybe play with the
sizes and aspect ratios eg:

215/55 is the same rolling radius as 195/60
205/55 is within 2% of 185/60

Playing round a little like this (and being very careful with making
sure that the new width is still ok for the rim) may get you fixed up
but of course 4 new winter tyres will cost a few bob more than some
Lidl chains.

Watch out for width changes on tyres. On LR Defenders you adjust the
steering stops otherwise wider tyres can rub on the chassis.
I had a jeep Garb Cherokee and for off-roading fitted 15 inch wheels
with tyres and MT tyres that gave the same radius but would just catch
the inside of the front wing on full lock.

You'd be wanting narrower tyres for snow anyway, wouldn't you?

Yes, perhaps not fully clear but I was advocating reducing from the
wider to the narrower in my examples and I was guessing that the absence
of winter tyres in the o/p's size might have been due to the originals
having half way 55 or 65 profiles.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 21/11/2012 11:22, charles wrote:
In article
,
jgharston wrote:
ARW wrote:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg
I had a day off work that day.

I was living in deepest Aberdeenshire then:
http://pics.mdfs.net/2010/11/101103.htm

To collect my car in Sheffield and get it back I bought some
snow chains, but never needed them, I found that careful slow
low-gear driving was adequate. I suppose I was lucky in having
my driving lessons in similar weather, so I had instructed
experience.

the trouble is the other people who haven't learned to drive in snow.

Yes. When we had 8" of snow a couple of years ago, it took me some time
to get to work 12 miles away and when I got there, I could not get to
the car parks as the entrance to each was blocked by other vehicles. The
two in front of me both struggled on the approach road, where I had no
problem, and then got stuck in the car park entrance. There was already
someone stuck in the entrance to the other car park, so I decided then
that I would go home, as even if I helped move them and got in myself,
there'd be no guarantee that I'd get out again if others got stuck!
Management then closed the offices for four days - during which time, I
drove to many places and never had any trouble at all.

SteveW

On 20/11/2012 23:50, Bill Wright wrote:
The best thing to do is stay at home.

I'm a contractor - it takes a lot to persuade me to do that!

SteveW

On 21/11/2012 21:58, fred wrote:

Yes, perhaps not fully clear but I was advocating reducing from the
wider to the narrower in my examples and I was guessing that the absence
of winter tyres in the o/p's size might have been due to the originals
having half way 55 or 65 profiles.

The tyres are 175/60 R15. There do seem more options and better
availability this year.

--
Rod

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 16:13:39 +0000, Nightjar
wrote:


I preferred to buy my tyres from my local tyre centre, who have been
supplying me for decades. Their price for wheels and tyres was was much
the same as buying on the web and they fit them for me.


I use an independent local tyre centre a mile from home and they are
very competitive with the bigger chains . If it's a case of replacing
worn tyres rather than the rare occasion a tyre gets damaged then
giving them a few days notice gives them a better chance of getting
them at the best price.
They are embarrassingly cheap when the swap of wheels with Winter
tyres takes place about now and again in the spring.
Take them in a large box of Chocolate biscuits when they have a quiet
moment and the job is done. I wish they would take some cash as well
but they decline,"just as long as you buy the tyres from us we don't
mind doing it"
It's a pleasant way to do business. The biscuits cost about £4 from
the milkman ,for that it is not worth getting a jack out and I don't
have a Torque wrench to do the job properly anyway.

G.Harman

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:49:11 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not
a lot will help on ice.

Studs.

Tracks :-)

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:43:39 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:27:48 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg

That's a pretty healthy pile 'o snow.

Here's a quick one of a passing plough taken through the office window
a couple of years ago:

http://www.patooie.com/temp/snow.jpg

I'd have thought that was just a light sprinkling for you Jules. Would
have expected larger versions of this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/5233180278/in/
set-72157625381514631

To be far more common on your roads.

We don't seem to get big snowblowers like that (although I suspect that
the airport has some) - I suppose the ploughs are good enough (and they
all grit at the same time). Plenty of people do have smaller snowblowers
for clearing driveways.

I think there's probably about a couple of feet of snow accumulation in
that photo, but it's hard to tell because all the roads around here have
large ditches either side which take the snow that the ploughs push aside
(it's best not to be driving your snowmobile in one when this occurs). I
think the typical yearly fall here is something like 4', but we normally
get a couple of big storms toward the start of the season which then
mostly melt, and then the same again toward the spring.

cheers

Jules

Snipped earlier parts

In message , SteveW
writes

You'd be wanting narrower tyres for snow anyway, wouldn't you?

SteveW
Not necessarily. Ever seen film of Icelanders driving in snow? They
reduce the pressure right down to give bigger footprint which means
lower pressure and so don't sink into the snow.

--
bert

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 23:40:02 +0000, bert wrote:

You'd be wanting narrower tyres for snow anyway, wouldn't you?


Not necessarily. Ever seen film of Icelanders driving in snow? They
reduce the pressure right down to give bigger footprint which means
lower pressure and so don't sink into the snow.

That's 'cause the snow is deeper than the ground clearance of the
vehicle. You don't want the wheels to dig down to find a solid surface as
you won't before the vehicle is resting on it's underside. BTDTGTTS the
winter before last IIRC.

In this country with just an inch or two of snow over tarmac there is
something to be said for a narrower tyre and big blocks to dig down
through the snow to find the tarmac. I prefer the bigger footprint and
snow/winter tyres as the snow up here can be deeper than the ground
clearance...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 22/11/2012 00:14, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 23:40:02 +0000, bert wrote:

You'd be wanting narrower tyres for snow anyway, wouldn't you?


Not necessarily. Ever seen film of Icelanders driving in snow? They
reduce the pressure right down to give bigger footprint which means
lower pressure and so don't sink into the snow.

That's 'cause the snow is deeper than the ground clearance of the
vehicle. You don't want the wheels to dig down to find a solid surface as
you won't before the vehicle is resting on it's underside. BTDTGTTS the
winter before last IIRC.

In this country with just an inch or two of snow over tarmac there is
something to be said for a narrower tyre and big blocks to dig down
through the snow to find the tarmac. I prefer the bigger footprint and
snow/winter tyres as the snow up here can be deeper than the ground
clearance...

I read in literature from one of the tyre makers that the tread patterns
in winter tyres are designed to trap snow, as snow grips well to other snow.

Colin Bignell

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:30:29 +0000
bert ] wrote:

In message , Davey
writes
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:50:40 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 21/11/12 00:35, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any
available for my car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly
odd combo. And when I looked few were made and none were
available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the
season; most people around here keep a second set of wheels and
just swap those over instead (and nice alloys for the summer if
the car has them and whatever cheap and crappy junkyard steel
wheels will fit for the winter)

cheers

Jules

I am running M&S all year round
On the land rover


Marks and Spencer sell wheels for Land Rovers?
Well they sell (G) wagon wheels in their food stores

I assume that M&S, in the context of tyres, is a Northern tyre
company? Around here, it's usually local independents. Halford's
advertises, but I have no idea where the nearest is, probably one of
the big cities within range, like Norwich. Or Thetford, where the DIY
shops, like B&Q, live.
--
Davey.

In article ,
Davey wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:30:29 +0000
bert ] wrote:

In message , Davey
writes
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:50:40 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 21/11/12 00:35, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any
available for my car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly
odd combo. And when I looked few were made and none were
available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the
season; most people around here keep a second set of wheels and
just swap those over instead (and nice alloys for the summer if
the car has them and whatever cheap and crappy junkyard steel
wheels will fit for the winter)

cheers

Jules

I am running M&S all year round
On the land rover


Marks and Spencer sell wheels for Land Rovers?
Well they sell (G) wagon wheels in their food stores

I assume that M&S, in the context of tyres, is a Northern tyre
company? x

M&S = Mud & Snow tyres. Big chunky treads

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 10:38:26 +0000 (GMT)
charles wrote:

In article ,
Davey wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:30:29 +0000
bert ] wrote:

In message , Davey
writes
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:50:40 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 21/11/12 00:35, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any
available for my car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a
slightly odd combo. And when I looked few were made and
none were available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the
season; most people around here keep a second set of wheels
and just swap those over instead (and nice alloys for the
summer if the car has them and whatever cheap and crappy
junkyard steel wheels will fit for the winter)

cheers

Jules

I am running M&S all year round
On the land rover


Marks and Spencer sell wheels for Land Rovers?
Well they sell (G) wagon wheels in their food stores

I assume that M&S, in the context of tyres, is a Northern tyre
company? x

M&S = Mud & Snow tyres. Big chunky treads


I see it as a supplier's name 'oop North, as well as that. Thanks. I
have never needed them, even driving in Canada in winter. Take care,
drive very very smoothly, and watch out for the others who have no clue.
--
Davey.

Davey wrote:
[snip]

I assume that M&S, in the context of tyres, is a Northern tyre
company?

Assuming that you are not being facetious. In this context M&S = Mud &
Snow. A tyre that's not quite as good as a winter tyre in snow but is a
reasonable compromise for winter use mixed with making progress over unmade
tracks.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:43:39 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:27:48 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg

That's a pretty healthy pile 'o snow.

Here's a quick one of a passing plough taken through the office window
a couple of years ago:

http://www.patooie.com/temp/snow.jpg

I'd have thought that was just a light sprinkling for you Jules. Would
have expected larger versions of this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/5233180278/in/
set-72157625381514631

To be far more common on your roads.

We don't seem to get big snowblowers like that (although I suspect that
the airport has some) - I suppose the ploughs are good enough (and they
all grit at the same time). Plenty of people do have smaller snowblowers
for clearing driveways.

This is how i do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArEvT...8&feature=plcp

Mike

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:24:09 -0000
"Muddymike" wrote:

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:43:39 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:27:48 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg

That's a pretty healthy pile 'o snow.

Here's a quick one of a passing plough taken through the office
window a couple of years ago:

http://www.patooie.com/temp/snow.jpg

I'd have thought that was just a light sprinkling for you Jules.
Would have expected larger versions of this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/5233180278/in/
set-72157625381514631

To be far more common on your roads.

We don't seem to get big snowblowers like that (although I suspect
that the airport has some) - I suppose the ploughs are good enough
(and they all grit at the same time). Plenty of people do have
smaller snowblowers for clearing driveways.

This is how i do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArEvT...8&feature=plcp

Mike


This is what you really need:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRvbd7urf4k

Watch all the videos.
--
Davey.