I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

--
Rod

On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?


Snow chains work, they are (or used to be) mandatory on many alpine
passes in the winter. They are a bit fiddly and messy to put on and off.
Have a set somewhere but have not used them for many years in spite of
having similar difficult hills locally.

You shouldn't drive very far on tarmac with them (and are likely to get
shouted at by the police if they catch you). Speed with them is limited
(30 mph? 50 mph?). You might find the modern fabric boots a bit more
convenient; more expensive than these chains but if your journey has a
hill at either end with a short-ish bit of level clear road in the
middle you might get away with leaving them on (driving slowly) where
you might feel the need to remove and replace the chains. Not sure which
gives more traction.

On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.

And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

On Nov 20, 8:53*pm, Andy Champ wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote: I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. *I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.

And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

goggle/ebay "snow socks"

Jim K

On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my car.

--
Rod

In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

Only really needed them once (well, not quite true), that was going up
the San Bernardino pass ... and my snow chains were on top of my
wardrobe in Milan


--
geoff

On Nov 20, 9:08*pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:





On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. *I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my car.

Andy Champ wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent
quality tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily.
Year before last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three
days. The level roads were mostly passable but the slopes were
impossible. So, in my deep ignorance of these matters, I have been
contemplating getting some snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so
certainly not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has
appeal:
http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I
haven't tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm
summer days.

And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.



http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg


I had a day off work that day.

--
Adam

On 20/11/2012 21:29, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 20, 9:08 pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:





On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my car.

--
Rod

go on.... what size?

Jim K

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

--
Rod

On 20/11/2012 21:32, ARW wrote:




http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg


I had a day off work that day.

This was at the bottom, much flatter, part of the hill as it all cleared
up. All those vehicles had been abandoned.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/318411/Snow%20Hill.jpg

--
Rod

On 20/11/2012 21:27, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

Only really needed them once (well, not quite true), that was going up
the San Bernardino pass ... and my snow chains were on top of my
wardrobe in Milan


Sets the mind wondering why they were... :-)

--
Rod

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before last
(IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level roads
were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my deep
ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some snow
chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?


I have a set somewhere.
They do work wonderfully well in snow and you can easily drive at 30mph but
as soon as you get onto a road which has been gritted with tarmac showing
through you have to slow down to about 10mph just when everyone else is
starting to speed up.
You then have to find somewhere in all the snow and slush to take the chains
off without impeding the other traffic.
Your fingers freeze and you need some seriously waterproof trousers.

I used them in bad winters in Derbyshire to get the last half mile up the
side of the valley.

I've only used them once since we moved to Suffolk, in a very bad winter.

One other thing - you do need clearance around the wheel arch for the chains
to flail around.
A lot of modern cars, especially with alloy wheels and low profile tyres
which come close to the wheel arches are not suitable for snow chains.

Used them on a Peugeot 504 Estate (wonderful car) and a Volvo 760 Estate.
Too scared to use them on my current Volvo 850 - I think there is a high
risk of damage.

On the subject of M&S tyres - had them on the rear of the Volvo 760 and they
were O.K. for a little mud or minor bits of snow but didn't make an amazing
difference over normal tyres.
No comparison in heavy snow with snow chains, and IMHO if you are
contemplating needing chains then M&S tyres just won't cut it.

Chains are designed to be fitted without taking the tyre off or jacking up
the car.
Long time since I did it, but roughly...
You drape the (loosened) chain over the top of the tyre, hold it in place
with a temporary clip, then roll forwards for half a wheel turn then tighten
everything up.
You may have to lay it out first and drive into the middle of it - as I say,
long time ago.
Run for a little, stop, and tighten up again.
After that, loads of fun as long as you are on a decent depth of snow.
Generally need to do it one wheel at a time, so a long time to fit
especially the first few times.

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In message , polygonum
writes
On 20/11/2012 21:27, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

Only really needed them once (well, not quite true), that was going up
the San Bernardino pass ... and my snow chains were on top of my
wardrobe in Milan


Sets the mind wondering why they were... :-)

Thats another story ...


--
geoff

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:08:03 +0000, polygonum wrote:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

Yep. Getting 'em is not pleasant unless you have a good coat, gloves etc,
don't forget it'll be cold, possibly dark, snowing and blowing. You
really should only use chains on deep snow or compacted snow, you risk
damaging the tyres on tarmac. So you can end up spending ages putting the
things on, taking them off.

Speed with chains is limited and they need to be a good fit and properly
fitted to the tyre. I have my doubts about a "one size fits all" set of
chains. A chain breaking will do the body work no favours and could
damage brake pipes or get caught around suspension components locking the
wheel up or bending bits...

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful.

Proper winter/snow tyres are very good on snow but it depends a little on
what you already have fitted how much improvement you will notice. The
current Discovery came with some "go faster" things, once it got cold and
wet you could notice the lack of grip. On snow they were useless, a
Discovery that couldn't get up a 1:30 covered with 4" of fresh snow WTF!
Currently have Pirelli Scorpian STR, they are pretty good but the
Vredestein Wintrac Extreme (in the garage) are better. The Wintracs will
allow the same car to go up a 1:7 on snow without any drama.

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow slits
across the tread pattern, take a look at these images of the above tyres.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/...ac4extreme.jpg
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/...corpionSTR.jpg
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/..._ventus_st.jpg

I think the Hankooks were so crap on snow because of the combination of a
hard summer compound and lack of snipes. Of course even the best winter
tyre won't help if the driver doesn't know how to drive on snow...

it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

You could have walked it in half that time, even on in snow.

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom.

That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not a
lot will help on ice.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow slits
across the tread pattern

I thought they were called "sipes"?

On 20/11/2012 22:10, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:08:03 +0000, polygonum wrote:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

Yep. Getting 'em is not pleasant unless you have a good coat, gloves etc,
don't forget it'll be cold, possibly dark, snowing and blowing. You
really should only use chains on deep snow or compacted snow, you risk
damaging the tyres on tarmac. So you can end up spending ages putting the
things on, taking them off.

Speed with chains is limited and they need to be a good fit and properly
fitted to the tyre. I have my doubts about a "one size fits all" set of
chains. A chain breaking will do the body work no favours and could
damage brake pipes or get caught around suspension components locking the
wheel up or bending bits...

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful.

Proper winter/snow tyres are very good on snow but it depends a little on
what you already have fitted how much improvement you will notice. The
current Discovery came with some "go faster" things, once it got cold and
wet you could notice the lack of grip. On snow they were useless, a
Discovery that couldn't get up a 1:30 covered with 4" of fresh snow WTF!
Currently have Pirelli Scorpian STR, they are pretty good but the
Vredestein Wintrac Extreme (in the garage) are better. The Wintracs will
allow the same car to go up a 1:7 on snow without any drama.

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow slits
across the tread pattern, take a look at these images of the above tyres.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/...ac4extreme.jpg
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/...corpionSTR.jpg
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/..._ventus_st.jpg

I think the Hankooks were so crap on snow because of the combination of a
hard summer compound and lack of snipes. Of course even the best winter
tyre won't help if the driver doesn't know how to drive on snow...

it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

You could have walked it in half that time, even on in snow.

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom.

That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not a
lot will help on ice.

Too much time on eBay, Dave! Sipes, methinks.

But thanks - I am currently thinking I might go for them even if it is
only the half mile between here and (probably) relatively clear roads.

Yes - was hard-packed snow, freezing harder. I actually watched as a
couple of abandoned cars simply started sliding by themselves.

--
Rod

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:38:47 +0000, polygonum wrote:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/318411/Snow%20Hill.jpg

Niether look like snow to me:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsort...72157623194502
480

B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 20/11/2012 22:26, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:38:47 +0000, polygonum wrote:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/318411/Snow%20Hill.jpg

Niether look like snow to me:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsort...72157623194502
480

B-)

Fair enough!

--
Rod

On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

I tend to the view that, if I am ever going to need snow chains, I am
going to need a good pair. I have Stop and Go Compact NT chains in my
car. They are relatively simple to fit and remove and, being
self-adjusting, you don't need to stop and re-tension the chains after
driving for a bit. Of course, I hope the winter tyres, which go on this
weekend, will mean I don't need the chains.

Colin Bignell

On 20/11/2012 23:06, Nightjar wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

I tend to the view that, if I am ever going to need snow chains, I am
going to need a good pair. I have Stop and Go Compact NT chains in my
car. They are relatively simple to fit and remove and, being
self-adjusting, you don't need to stop and re-tension the chains after
driving for a bit. Of course, I hope the winter tyres, which go on this
weekend, will mean I don't need the chains.

Colin Bignell

I can understand that entirely. If I seriously expected to need more
than a couple of miles, I might be persuaded. They look good.

When we were stuck, I was happy enough to walk and get food, but it
truly felt like I was swinging the lead when I could not get to work -
with others travelling dozens of miles successfully and I couldn't do
the one mile to get to clear roads!

--
Rod

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:16:27 +0000
Andy Burns wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow slits
across the tread pattern

I thought they were called "sipes"?



I think you're right. 'Snipes' are large birds, which conjures up an
interesting vision if used in this context.

--
Davey.

The best thing to do is stay at home.

Bill

In message , Bill Wright
writes
The best thing to do is stay at home.

Ah, but which home

I was travelling from my Milanese home to my Nuernberg home


--
geoff

Bill Wright wrote:
The best thing to do is stay at home.

Yep, leave the roads free for those who can drive.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

In article , polygonum
writes
On 20/11/2012 21:29, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 20, 9:08 pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:





On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my car.

--
Rod

go on.... what size?

Jim K

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

If you want to try the winter tyres route then maybe play with the sizes
and aspect ratios eg:

215/55 is the same rolling radius as 195/60
205/55 is within 2% of 185/60

Playing round a little like this (and being very careful with making
sure that the new width is still ok for the rim) may get you fixed up
but of course 4 new winter tyres will cost a few bob more than some Lidl
chains.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my
car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the season; most
people around here keep a second set of wheels and just swap those over
instead (and nice alloys for the summer if the car has them and whatever
cheap and crappy junkyard steel wheels will fit for the winter)

cheers

Jules

On 20/11/2012 23:50, Bill Wright wrote:
The best thing to do is stay at home.

Which would rather defeat the object of fitting winter tyres (required
in Germany in winter conditions) and carrying snow chains (required in
France if driving on snow).

Colin Bignell

On 21/11/2012 02:04, Nightjar wrote:
On 20/11/2012 23:50, Bill Wright wrote:
The best thing to do is stay at home.

Which would rather defeat the object of fitting winter tyres (required
in Germany in winter conditions) and carrying snow chains (required in
France if driving on snow).

Colin Bignell

With the exception, so they claim, of one brand of fabric snow sock
thing - apparently approved in France. But they still advise downloading
a document from some gendarmerie saying so.

--
Rod

On 20/11/12 22:10, Dave Liquorice wrote:


That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not a
lot will help on ice.

Studs.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Nightjar wrote:
On 20/11/2012 23:50, Bill Wright wrote:
The best thing to do is stay at home.

Which would rather defeat the object of fitting winter tyres (required
in Germany in winter conditions) and carrying snow chains (required in
France if driving on snow).

Colin Bignell

No it wouldn't. The object of those things is to reduce accidents. By
not making non-essential journeys accidents would be reduced even further.
I think people need to get a sense of proportion about this. In the UK
there are only two or three days in the years when snow makes driving
more dangerous. To simply not go out on those days is a very good
defensive driving technique. Most people can employ themselves
profitably at home for a couple of days.
Surely you'd agree that unnecessary driving in thick fog, or when you've
got the flu, is just plain daft. This is only the same.
It's actually a public duty to stay at home on bad days. It avoids
accidents, each of which costs the taxpayer a fortune. It helps keep the
roads clear for essential users. It reduces stress, which helps the NHS.
There's no point in being stubborn and setting off for work when the
journey is obviously going to be a nightmare and might end in disaster.
Stubborn stupidity doesn't make you a hero.

Bill

On 21/11/12 00:35, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my
car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the season; most
people around here keep a second set of wheels and just swap those over
instead (and nice alloys for the summer if the car has them and whatever
cheap and crappy junkyard steel wheels will fit for the winter)

cheers

Jules

I am running M&S all year round
On the land rover

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 21/11/2012 07:49, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 20/11/2012 23:50, Bill Wright wrote:
The best thing to do is stay at home.

Which would rather defeat the object of fitting winter tyres (required
in Germany in winter conditions) and carrying snow chains (required in
France if driving on snow).

Colin Bignell

No it wouldn't. The object of those things is to reduce accidents. By
not making non-essential journeys accidents would be reduced even further.
I think people need to get a sense of proportion about this. In the UK
there are only two or three days in the years when snow makes driving
more dangerous. To simply not go out on those days is a very good
defensive driving technique. Most people can employ themselves
profitably at home for a couple of days.
Surely you'd agree that unnecessary driving in thick fog, or when you've
got the flu, is just plain daft. This is only the same.
It's actually a public duty to stay at home on bad days. It avoids
accidents, each of which costs the taxpayer a fortune. It helps keep the
roads clear for essential users. It reduces stress, which helps the NHS.
There's no point in being stubborn and setting off for work when the
journey is obviously going to be a nightmare and might end in disaster.
Stubborn stupidity doesn't make you a hero.

Bill

There is a lot of sense in that - and if it is likely bad all the way, I
would stay at home. It is very much the hill issue round here. Once
escaped from that, can probably drive perfectly well. Decent
gritting/clearing might even sort that but it does not happen. There
are, in total, four roads from my 'plateau' - two were not cleared at
all, the very steepest was partially cleared by council but still
impassable, and one was fairly well cleared by local farmer!

--
Rod

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:49:11 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow.
Not a lot will help on ice.

Studs.

Even less practical in this country having to change tyres on rims or
whole rim/tyre combination when going from snow to tarmac. B-)

Not even sure that studded tyres are street legal in this country.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 23:23:11 +0000, Davey wrote:

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow slits
across the tread pattern

I thought they were called "sipes"?

I think you're right.

Yep brain fade into "little cuts" being "snips".

'Snipes' are large birds,

Sea shore wader, often seen in groups running up and down the beach
chased by waves. Wouldn't call 'em large, small/medium.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 21/11/12 08:15, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:49:11 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow.
Not a lot will help on ice.

Studs.

Even less practical in this country having to change tyres on rims or
whole rim/tyre combination when going from snow to tarmac. B-)

Not even sure that studded tyres are street legal in this country.

whilst all you say is totally true I w3as merely repsonding to 'not a
lot will help on ice' and of course studs do.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:27:48 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg

That's a pretty healthy pile 'o snow.

Here's a quick one of a passing plough taken through the office window
a couple of years ago:

http://www.patooie.com/temp/snow.jpg

I'd have thought that was just a light sprinkling for you Jules. Would
have expected larger versions of this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsort...72157625381514
631

To be far more common on your roads.

We've not had a good snow storm yet this season;

We normally expect snow from late Oct/early Nov on, so far at our level
we've only had a bit of sleet. The tops were well covered for a few days
at the begining of the month but the snow line was just above us.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 21/11/2012 07:49, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 20/11/2012 23:50, Bill Wright wrote:
The best thing to do is stay at home.

Which would rather defeat the object of fitting winter tyres (required
in Germany in winter conditions) and carrying snow chains (required in
France if driving on snow).

Colin Bignell

No it wouldn't. The object of those things is to reduce accidents. By
not making non-essential journeys accidents would be reduced even further.

They would be completely eliminated by never making any journeys at all,
although staying at home is statistically even more dangerous.

Winter tyres are a legal requirement when driving in Germany in winter
conditions and I don't know where you can get accurate weather forecasts
for the whole of a two week trip. In any case, winter tyres are superior
to summer tyres whenever the temperature drops below 7C. Not an unusual
event, even in the UK, in winter.

I think people need to get a sense of proportion about this. In the UK
there are only two or three days in the years when snow makes driving
more dangerous.

On average, it gets 16.5 days of settled snow every year - 27.7 days in
Scotland. In 2010, Germany, which is of rather more interest to me, had
80-120 days of settled snow in various parts.

To simply not go out on those days is a very good
defensive driving technique.

If possible, but certainly not practical two and three winters ago.

Most people can employ themselves
profitably at home for a couple of days.

However, not so much when abroad and scheduled to be travelling on those
days.

Surely you'd agree that unnecessary driving in thick fog, or when you've
got the flu, is just plain daft.

I have radar for the fog and if you have real flu, you won't even be
getting out of bed.

This is only the same.

Not really. You can train to drive in winter conditions - there is an
excellent school in Austria - and, if you have taken the proper
precautions, driving in snow is no more dangerous than driving in heavy
traffic.

It's actually a public duty to stay at home on bad days. It avoids
accidents, each of which costs the taxpayer a fortune. It helps keep the
roads clear for essential users. It reduces stress, which helps the NHS.
There's no point in being stubborn and setting off for work when the
journey is obviously going to be a nightmare and might end in disaster.
Stubborn stupidity doesn't make you a hero.

You seem to have missed the point that I was talking of being abroad on
holiday, not driving to work, which I don't have to do on a good weather
day.

Colin Bignell

On 21/11/2012 07:42, polygonum wrote:
On 21/11/2012 02:04, Nightjar wrote:
On 20/11/2012 23:50, Bill Wright wrote:
The best thing to do is stay at home.

Which would rather defeat the object of fitting winter tyres (required
in Germany in winter conditions) and carrying snow chains (required in
France if driving on snow).

Colin Bignell

With the exception, so they claim, of one brand of fabric snow sock
thing - apparently approved in France. But they still advise downloading
a document from some gendarmerie saying so.


I can't say that I am convinced that snow socks work, at least not as
well as snow chains. I certainly wouldn't want to try to explain that
they do to a, probably harassed, French policeman who is telling me I
cannot drive any further.

Colin Bignell

On Nov 20, 8:11*pm, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

--
Rod

The alternative is ti nip down the scrappy and get a couple of spare
wheels and fit some really knobbly mud and snow tyres.

Chains can bugger your tires up if you drive on the highway. Haven't
seen any for sale for years anyway.
Or buy a Subaru.

On Nov 20, 9:08*pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:


I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

We had an ambulance down our hill in the snow with them and they
shredded to pieces in seconds once they hit tarmac and the wheels
spun. Looked useless to me.

Jonathan