I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

--
Rod

On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?


Snow chains work, they are (or used to be) mandatory on many alpine
passes in the winter. They are a bit fiddly and messy to put on and off.
Have a set somewhere but have not used them for many years in spite of
having similar difficult hills locally.

You shouldn't drive very far on tarmac with them (and are likely to get
shouted at by the police if they catch you). Speed with them is limited
(30 mph? 50 mph?). You might find the modern fabric boots a bit more
convenient; more expensive than these chains but if your journey has a
hill at either end with a short-ish bit of level clear road in the
middle you might get away with leaving them on (driving slowly) where
you might feel the need to remove and replace the chains. Not sure which
gives more traction.

On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.

And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

On Nov 20, 8:53*pm, Andy Champ wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote: I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. *I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.

And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

goggle/ebay "snow socks"

Jim K

On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my car.

--
Rod

On Nov 20, 9:08*pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:





On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. *I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my car.

On 20/11/2012 21:29, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 20, 9:08 pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:





On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my car.

--
Rod

go on.... what size?

Jim K

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

--
Rod

In article , polygonum
writes
On 20/11/2012 21:29, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 20, 9:08 pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:





On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I haven't
tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm summer
days.
.
And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.

Andy

Well in that dreadful pre-Christmas snow (if that three years ago now?),
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom. The police complained
to the council quite severely. It was really annoying being able to see
people driving around town but being unable to get down there to do so
myself.

I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my car.

--
Rod

go on.... what size?

Jim K

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

If you want to try the winter tyres route then maybe play with the sizes
and aspect ratios eg:

215/55 is the same rolling radius as 195/60
205/55 is within 2% of 185/60

Playing round a little like this (and being very careful with making
sure that the new width is still ok for the rim) may get you fixed up
but of course 4 new winter tyres will cost a few bob more than some Lidl
chains.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:20 +0000, polygonum wrote:
Looked for decent winter tyres and could not find any available for my
car.

go on.... what size?

Can't remember! Have to go out to look, not huge but a slightly odd
combo. And when I looked few were made and none were available.

Biggest pain is having to swap them at the start/end of the season; most
people around here keep a second set of wheels and just swap those over
instead (and nice alloys for the summer if the car has them and whatever
cheap and crappy junkyard steel wheels will fit for the winter)

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:08:03 +0000, polygonum wrote:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

Yep. Getting 'em is not pleasant unless you have a good coat, gloves etc,
don't forget it'll be cold, possibly dark, snowing and blowing. You
really should only use chains on deep snow or compacted snow, you risk
damaging the tyres on tarmac. So you can end up spending ages putting the
things on, taking them off.

Speed with chains is limited and they need to be a good fit and properly
fitted to the tyre. I have my doubts about a "one size fits all" set of
chains. A chain breaking will do the body work no favours and could
damage brake pipes or get caught around suspension components locking the
wheel up or bending bits...

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful.

Proper winter/snow tyres are very good on snow but it depends a little on
what you already have fitted how much improvement you will notice. The
current Discovery came with some "go faster" things, once it got cold and
wet you could notice the lack of grip. On snow they were useless, a
Discovery that couldn't get up a 1:30 covered with 4" of fresh snow WTF!
Currently have Pirelli Scorpian STR, they are pretty good but the
Vredestein Wintrac Extreme (in the garage) are better. The Wintracs will
allow the same car to go up a 1:7 on snow without any drama.

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow slits
across the tread pattern, take a look at these images of the above tyres.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/...ac4extreme.jpg
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/...corpionSTR.jpg
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/..._ventus_st.jpg

I think the Hankooks were so crap on snow because of the combination of a
hard summer compound and lack of snipes. Of course even the best winter
tyre won't help if the driver doesn't know how to drive on snow...

it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

You could have walked it in half that time, even on in snow.

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom.

That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not a
lot will help on ice.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow slits
across the tread pattern

I thought they were called "sipes"?

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:16:27 +0000
Andy Burns wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow slits
across the tread pattern

I thought they were called "sipes"?



I think you're right. 'Snipes' are large birds, which conjures up an
interesting vision if used in this context.

--
Davey.

On 20/11/2012 22:10, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:08:03 +0000, polygonum wrote:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

Yep. Getting 'em is not pleasant unless you have a good coat, gloves etc,
don't forget it'll be cold, possibly dark, snowing and blowing. You
really should only use chains on deep snow or compacted snow, you risk
damaging the tyres on tarmac. So you can end up spending ages putting the
things on, taking them off.

Speed with chains is limited and they need to be a good fit and properly
fitted to the tyre. I have my doubts about a "one size fits all" set of
chains. A chain breaking will do the body work no favours and could
damage brake pipes or get caught around suspension components locking the
wheel up or bending bits...

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful.

Proper winter/snow tyres are very good on snow but it depends a little on
what you already have fitted how much improvement you will notice. The
current Discovery came with some "go faster" things, once it got cold and
wet you could notice the lack of grip. On snow they were useless, a
Discovery that couldn't get up a 1:30 covered with 4" of fresh snow WTF!
Currently have Pirelli Scorpian STR, they are pretty good but the
Vredestein Wintrac Extreme (in the garage) are better. The Wintracs will
allow the same car to go up a 1:7 on snow without any drama.

What really gives the grip on snow are the "snipes" the narrow slits
across the tread pattern, take a look at these images of the above tyres.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/...ac4extreme.jpg
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/...corpionSTR.jpg
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/..._ventus_st.jpg

I think the Hankooks were so crap on snow because of the combination of a
hard summer compound and lack of snipes. Of course even the best winter
tyre won't help if the driver doesn't know how to drive on snow...

it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!

You could have walked it in half that time, even on in snow.

And, as I said, more recently we simply got stuck here. The council had
decided not to grit the roads and the only cars going down from here
were literally sliding out from the kerb with no driver and carrying on
until they reached the crossroads at the bottom.

That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not a
lot will help on ice.

Too much time on eBay, Dave! Sipes, methinks.

But thanks - I am currently thinking I might go for them even if it is
only the half mile between here and (probably) relatively clear roads.

Yes - was hard-packed snow, freezing harder. I actually watched as a
couple of abandoned cars simply started sliding by themselves.

--
Rod

On 20/11/12 22:10, Dave Liquorice wrote:


That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not a
lot will help on ice.

Studs.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:49:11 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow.
Not a lot will help on ice.

Studs.

Even less practical in this country having to change tyres on rims or
whole rim/tyre combination when going from snow to tarmac. B-)

Not even sure that studded tyres are street legal in this country.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:49:11 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not
a lot will help on ice.

Studs.

Tracks :-)

On 20/11/2012 22:10, Dave Liquorice wrote:

That sounds more like sheet ice rather than snow or compacted snow. Not a
lot will help on ice.

I would have expected chains to work on ice a bit like studded tyres.
A much higher pressure being applied per square inch of actual contact
area. For the price of the Lidl ones I'd sooner have them and not need
them than worry about having to spend 10 minutes fitting them and taking
them off at the end of a challenging/impossible hill.


--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Fitness+Gym Equipment.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
polygonum wrote:
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!
You could have walked it in half that time, even on in snow.


Nah! Two (?) years ago now the snow was really bad here .
The snow on the pavement was calf /knee deep, progress on that was
a mile an hour (or even less at times). Walking on the road was the
only way to make any thing like reasonable progress but that involved
lots of trying to get out the road whenever a vehicle slithered past as
some brave sole decided to try and drive that bit.
Selfishly parked/abandoned cars reduced what was (potentially) a two
lane road to one lane (Lanark road) .
What I did notice was people in big cars etc getting stuck but the
old wifey next door in her KA was still putting about.

On 21/11/2012 18:25, soup wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
polygonum wrote:
it took me over nine hours to get about 12 miles home - and I had to
abandon car and walk up hill. And that is in the sarf!
You could have walked it in half that time, even on in snow.


Nah! Two (?) years ago now the snow was really bad here .
The snow on the pavement was calf /knee deep, progress on that was
a mile an hour (or even less at times). Walking on the road was the
only way to make any thing like reasonable progress but that involved
lots of trying to get out the road whenever a vehicle slithered past as
some brave sole decided to try and drive that bit.
Selfishly parked/abandoned cars reduced what was (potentially) a two
lane road to one lane (Lanark road) .
What I did notice was people in big cars etc getting stuck but the
old wifey next door in her KA was still putting about.


In terms of distance, even with a bit of snow, walking could have been
faster. But walking would not have been viable:-

First bit, had no idea how bad it was. Could drive OK but traffic was solid.

Second bit, motorway, no walking!

Third bit, much delay due to (as soup said) abandoned vehicles, bus
right across road, etc. And anywhere that you might have been able to
park already had a vehicle parked up.

Fourth bit, find somewhere to park.

Then final walk home.

But until pretty much the end of the trip, I had no idea how bad the
next bit was going to be.

--
Rod

On Nov 20, 9:08*pm, polygonum wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:


I too have heard chains are a pain to fit. Also heard the fabric ones
are better on snow than they are on ice?

We had an ambulance down our hill in the snow with them and they
shredded to pieces in seconds once they hit tarmac and the wheels
spun. Looked useless to me.

Jonathan

Andy Champ wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent
quality tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily.
Year before last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three
days. The level roads were mostly passable but the slopes were
impossible. So, in my deep ignorance of these matters, I have been
contemplating getting some snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so
certainly not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has
appeal:
http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

aren't they a PITA to fit? and you have to take them off whenever you
get to tarmac, and then put them back on when you get to the snow?

I've heard that mud&snow or such winter tyres are wonderful. I
haven't tried them for two reasons - first for my car there is one (1)
manufacturer who makes tyres that fit. And they're for sunny warm
summer days.

And second, the only problem I've ever had with snow darn sarf 'ere is
with being stuck in a jam behind someone who can't drive in it.



http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg


I had a day off work that day.

--
Adam

On 20/11/2012 21:32, ARW wrote:




http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg


I had a day off work that day.

This was at the bottom, much flatter, part of the hill as it all cleared
up. All those vehicles had been abandoned.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/318411/Snow%20Hill.jpg

--
Rod

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:38:47 +0000, polygonum wrote:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/318411/Snow%20Hill.jpg

Niether look like snow to me:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsort...72157623194502
480

B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 20/11/2012 22:26, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:38:47 +0000, polygonum wrote:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/318411/Snow%20Hill.jpg

Niether look like snow to me:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsort...72157623194502
480

B-)

Fair enough!

--
Rod

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:38:47 +0000, polygonum wrote:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/318411/Snow%20Hill.jpg

Niether look like snow to me:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsort...72157623194502
480

B-)

But at least we have a road when the snow melts!

--
Adam

ARW wrote:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg
I had a day off work that day.

I was living in deepest Aberdeenshire then:
http://pics.mdfs.net/2010/11/101103.htm

To collect my car in Sheffield and get it back I bought some
snow chains, but never needed them, I found that careful slow
low-gear driving was adequate. I suppose I was lucky in having
my driving lessons in similar weather, so I had instructed
experience.

JGH

In article
,
jgharston wrote:
ARW wrote:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg
I had a day off work that day.

I was living in deepest Aberdeenshire then:
http://pics.mdfs.net/2010/11/101103.htm

To collect my car in Sheffield and get it back I bought some
snow chains, but never needed them, I found that careful slow
low-gear driving was adequate. I suppose I was lucky in having
my driving lessons in similar weather, so I had instructed
experience.

the trouble is the other people who haven't learned to drive in snow.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 21/11/2012 11:22, charles wrote:
In article
,
jgharston wrote:
ARW wrote:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg
I had a day off work that day.

I was living in deepest Aberdeenshire then:
http://pics.mdfs.net/2010/11/101103.htm

To collect my car in Sheffield and get it back I bought some
snow chains, but never needed them, I found that careful slow
low-gear driving was adequate. I suppose I was lucky in having
my driving lessons in similar weather, so I had instructed
experience.

the trouble is the other people who haven't learned to drive in snow.

Yes. When we had 8" of snow a couple of years ago, it took me some time
to get to work 12 miles away and when I got there, I could not get to
the car parks as the entrance to each was blocked by other vehicles. The
two in front of me both struggled on the approach road, where I had no
problem, and then got stuck in the car park entrance. There was already
someone stuck in the entrance to the other car park, so I decided then
that I would go home, as even if I helped move them and got in myself,
there'd be no guarantee that I'd get out again if others got stuck!
Management then closed the offices for four days - during which time, I
drove to many places and never had any trouble at all.

SteveW

charles wrote:
In article
,
jgharston wrote:
ARW wrote:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg
I had a day off work that day.

I was living in deepest Aberdeenshire then:
http://pics.mdfs.net/2010/11/101103.htm

To collect my car in Sheffield and get it back I bought some
snow chains, but never needed them, I found that careful slow
low-gear driving was adequate. I suppose I was lucky in having
my driving lessons in similar weather, so I had instructed
experience.

the trouble is the other people who haven't learned to drive in snow.

And that is always the biggest problem. It seems that everyone now just puts
on more revs when the car does not move in the snow. There is a lack of
basic training for such things.

I would have been about 13 years old when it snowed heavily and my Dad took
me to the school carpark - it was closed and he taught me how to drive in
the snow in a Ford Sierra.

And yes we did fill the boot up with sacks of coal to give a little weight
on the rear end before we set off.

--
Adam

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:32:49 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:


http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/100_0263.jpg


I had a day off work that day.


Just another summer day in Yorkshire


--

In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

Only really needed them once (well, not quite true), that was going up
the San Bernardino pass ... and my snow chains were on top of my
wardrobe in Milan


--
geoff

On 20/11/2012 21:27, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

Only really needed them once (well, not quite true), that was going up
the San Bernardino pass ... and my snow chains were on top of my
wardrobe in Milan


Sets the mind wondering why they were... :-)

--
Rod

In message , polygonum
writes
On 20/11/2012 21:27, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Never used or needed them ... but...

Only really needed them once (well, not quite true), that was going up
the San Bernardino pass ... and my snow chains were on top of my
wardrobe in Milan


Sets the mind wondering why they were... :-)

Thats another story ...


--
geoff

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before last
(IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level roads
were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my deep
ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some snow
chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?


I have a set somewhere.
They do work wonderfully well in snow and you can easily drive at 30mph but
as soon as you get onto a road which has been gritted with tarmac showing
through you have to slow down to about 10mph just when everyone else is
starting to speed up.
You then have to find somewhere in all the snow and slush to take the chains
off without impeding the other traffic.
Your fingers freeze and you need some seriously waterproof trousers.

I used them in bad winters in Derbyshire to get the last half mile up the
side of the valley.

I've only used them once since we moved to Suffolk, in a very bad winter.

One other thing - you do need clearance around the wheel arch for the chains
to flail around.
A lot of modern cars, especially with alloy wheels and low profile tyres
which come close to the wheel arches are not suitable for snow chains.

Used them on a Peugeot 504 Estate (wonderful car) and a Volvo 760 Estate.
Too scared to use them on my current Volvo 850 - I think there is a high
risk of damage.

On the subject of M&S tyres - had them on the rear of the Volvo 760 and they
were O.K. for a little mud or minor bits of snow but didn't make an amazing
difference over normal tyres.
No comparison in heavy snow with snow chains, and IMHO if you are
contemplating needing chains then M&S tyres just won't cut it.

Chains are designed to be fitted without taking the tyre off or jacking up
the car.
Long time since I did it, but roughly...
You drape the (loosened) chain over the top of the tyre, hold it in place
with a temporary clip, then roll forwards for half a wheel turn then tighten
everything up.
You may have to lay it out first and drive into the middle of it - as I say,
long time ago.
Run for a little, stop, and tighten up again.
After that, loads of fun as long as you are on a decent depth of snow.
Generally need to do it one wheel at a time, so a long time to fit
especially the first few times.

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:47:11 PM UTC, David WE Roberts wrote:
"polygonum" wrote in message
...

I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before last
(IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level roads
were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my deep
ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some snow
chains.

Winter tyres. Dogs ********.

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Winter tyres will do it, and will make the rest of the driving
safer too.

They [chains] do work wonderfully well in snow and you can easily drive
at 30mph but as soon as you get onto a road which has been gritted with
tarmac showing through you have to slow down to about 10mph just when
everyone else is starting to speed up.

You then have to find somewhere in all the snow and slush to take the
chains off without impeding the other traffic.

Your fingers freeze and you need some seriously waterproof trousers.

On the subject of M&S tyres - had them on the rear of the Volvo 760
and they were O.K. for a little mud or minor bits of snow but didn't
make an amazing difference over normal tyres.

That is certainly not my experience driving on packed snow in the
Black Forest. Proper winter tyres (which are mandatory there), made
it like driving on rails. I really wish I had known about them when
we lived in Suffolk - there was one corner I would slip a bit every
frosty morning.

We will fit ours before we go there at Christmas, and will drive on
them until after we get back from the Easter trip.

On 21/11/12 14:10, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:47:11 PM UTC, David WE Roberts wrote:
"polygonum" wrote in message
...

I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before last
(IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level roads
were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my deep
ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some snow
chains.

Winter tyres. Dogs ********.

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

Winter tyres will do it, and will make the rest of the driving
safer too.

They [chains] do work wonderfully well in snow and you can easily drive
at 30mph but as soon as you get onto a road which has been gritted with
tarmac showing through you have to slow down to about 10mph just when
everyone else is starting to speed up.

You then have to find somewhere in all the snow and slush to take the
chains off without impeding the other traffic.

Your fingers freeze and you need some seriously waterproof trousers.

On the subject of M&S tyres - had them on the rear of the Volvo 760
and they were O.K. for a little mud or minor bits of snow but didn't
make an amazing difference over normal tyres.

That is certainly not my experience driving on packed snow in the
Black Forest. Proper winter tyres (which are mandatory there), made
it like driving on rails. I really wish I had known about them when
we lived in Suffolk - there was one corner I would slip a bit every
frosty morning.

We will fit ours before we go there at Christmas, and will drive on
them until after we get back from the Easter trip.

I think the message I am getting is that not all winter tyres are the
same as M+S tyres and not all are created equal.

AND a lot depends on whether its dry snow - which you get a lot on the
continent - or packed sheet ice, which is what snow that's been driven
on gets to be after a few days of freeze/thaw in the UK..



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

I tend to the view that, if I am ever going to need snow chains, I am
going to need a good pair. I have Stop and Go Compact NT chains in my
car. They are relatively simple to fit and remove and, being
self-adjusting, you don't need to stop and re-tension the chains after
driving for a bit. Of course, I hope the winter tyres, which go on this
weekend, will mean I don't need the chains.

Colin Bignell

On 20/11/2012 23:06, Nightjar wrote:
On 20/11/2012 20:11, polygonum wrote:
I live in a very hilly area - and, though we live off a decent quality
tarmac road, we can get effectively cut off quite easily. Year before
last (IIRC) we were unable to drive out for about three days. The level
roads were mostly passable but the slopes were impossible. So, in my
deep ignorance of these matters, I have been contemplating getting some
snow chains.

Really only think I might need them for extremely local use so certainly
not worth spending very much. Hence Lidl's latest has appeal:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/l...ndex_36482.htm

Am I barking thinking they might help in changing the drive from
impossible to manageable?

I tend to the view that, if I am ever going to need snow chains, I am
going to need a good pair. I have Stop and Go Compact NT chains in my
car. They are relatively simple to fit and remove and, being
self-adjusting, you don't need to stop and re-tension the chains after
driving for a bit. Of course, I hope the winter tyres, which go on this
weekend, will mean I don't need the chains.

Colin Bignell

I can understand that entirely. If I seriously expected to need more
than a couple of miles, I might be persuaded. They look good.

When we were stuck, I was happy enough to walk and get food, but it
truly felt like I was swinging the lead when I could not get to work -
with others travelling dozens of miles successfully and I couldn't do
the one mile to get to clear roads!

--
Rod

The best thing to do is stay at home.

Bill

In message , Bill Wright
writes
The best thing to do is stay at home.

Ah, but which home

I was travelling from my Milanese home to my Nuernberg home


--
geoff