On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:43:32 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

Blimey 2012, almost up to date.

On an allied subject, Remember some time back an incident where a person
died due to a fuse not blowing when a mains cable was taken up by an old
style beater hover, mostly made of metal.

I really don't think the size of the fuse on the table lamp is the issue
here. It is hoover not being effectively earthed that is the immediate
problem. If it had been earthed it would not have reached a dangerous
voltage and either the 13A fuse or the flex to the table lamp would have
melted and broken the connection.

That may be so but the early and mainly metal models of Hoover only
had two round pin plugs with the plug body made of a rubber material

ISTR my mother getting a new Hoover circa 1962 and while the cleaner
was a considerably different to Grans 1930's one the rubber two pin
5amp plug was hardly any different in appearance. Had to use an
adapter to use a 13 amp socket.

A lot of early ones were used from a lamp fitting,
Hoover even supplied the bayonet connection with the rubber plug at
one time.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Ol...25.m3641.l6368

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well, any one
know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?


G.Harman

On 19/11/2016 15:34, DerbyBorn wrote:



I will stick to fusing with the lowest capacity fuse to suit the current of
the appliance. I want the fuse to blow as soon as possible if there is a
fault.

Nothing wrong with fusing appropriately, but when dealing with fault
currents (in the technical sense), it makes little difference if its a
3A or 13A fuse when you try drawing 300A through it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:43:32 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

Blimey 2012, almost up to date.

On an allied subject, Remember some time back an incident where a person
died due to a fuse not blowing when a mains cable was taken up by an old
style beater hover, mostly made of metal.

I really don't think the size of the fuse on the table lamp is the issue
here. It is hoover not being effectively earthed that is the immediate
problem. If it had been earthed it would not have reached a dangerous
voltage and either the 13A fuse or the flex to the table lamp would have
melted and broken the connection.

That may be so but the early and mainly metal models of Hoover only
had two round pin plugs with the plug body made of a rubber material

ISTR my mother getting a new Hoover circa 1962 and while the cleaner
was a considerably different to Grans 1930's one the rubber two pin
5amp plug was hardly any different in appearance. Had to use an
adapter to use a 13 amp socket.

A lot of early ones were used from a lamp fitting,
Hoover even supplied the bayonet connection with the rubber plug at
one time.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Ol...Pink-Plug-and-
Adaptor-/142157971674?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well, any one
know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?


G.Harman

Good point. But if the only fault current was that passing through the
victim then no fuse on the table lamp could have helped.


--

Roger Hayter

On Saturday, 19 November 2016 18:56:25 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/11/2016 15:34, DerbyBorn wrote:



I will stick to fusing with the lowest capacity fuse to suit the current of
the appliance. I want the fuse to blow as soon as possible if there is a
fault.

Nothing wrong with fusing appropriately, but when dealing with fault
currents (in the technical sense), it makes little difference if its a
3A or 13A fuse when you try drawing 300A through it.

When you have an extension lead plugged into another, or an old appliance, or something bought from China, it certainly does.


NT

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000, wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well, any one
know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting you
should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I know it
was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when did this
change?

In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and I
remember being told at a young age this was because they were designed
for DC (to prevent arcing). I have Googled many times since and been
unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I was also told it
was related to the closure of the municipal generating station (for
the trams) and introduction of the National Grid but again I can find
no support for this..

On 19/11/2016 20:13, wrote:
On Saturday, 19 November 2016 18:56:25 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/11/2016 15:34, DerbyBorn wrote:



I will stick to fusing with the lowest capacity fuse to suit the current of
the appliance. I want the fuse to blow as soon as possible if there is a
fault.

Nothing wrong with fusing appropriately, but when dealing with fault
currents (in the technical sense), it makes little difference if its a
3A or 13A fuse when you try drawing 300A through it.

When you have an extension lead plugged into another, or an old appliance, or something bought from China, it certainly does.

You won't get a adequate fault current through too many cascaded leads,
but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses in case someone may
cascade them seems a bit self defeating.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/11/2016 22:15, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000, wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well, any one
know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting you
should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I know it
was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when did this
change?

In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and I
remember being told at a young age this was because they were designed
for DC (to prevent arcing). I have Googled many times since and been
unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I was also told it
was related to the closure of the municipal generating station (for
the trams) and introduction of the National Grid but again I can find
no support for this..

Prior to the national grid there were significant local variations in
generation - so some areas would have had DC generation. (ISTR recall
that London alone had 24 different standards of voltage / frequency etc).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/11/16 22:15, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000, wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well, any one
know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting you
should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I know it
was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when did this
change?


No, it wasn't, but ISTR being t0old about 205V DC or thereabouts way
back when.

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=41380

suugests it hung on into the 60's in some areas.

Remember the CEGB wqas created post WWI, and the 'national grid' grew
out of that.

Prior to that time you got whatever voltage and frequency, including DC,
the local power company gave you.


In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and I
remember being told at a young age this was because they were designed
for DC (to prevent arcing). I have Googled many times since and been
unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I was also told it
was related to the closure of the municipal generating station (for
the trams) and introduction of the National Grid but again I can find
no support for this..

It almost certainly was. The rollout of 2540V A/C 50Hz as the 'standard'
happened post War, and was intimately connected to the construction of
the 'national grid'



--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 00:11:32 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/11/2016 20:13, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 19 November 2016 18:56:25 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/11/2016 15:34, DerbyBorn wrote:



I will stick to fusing with the lowest capacity fuse to suit the current of
the appliance. I want the fuse to blow as soon as possible if there is a
fault.

Nothing wrong with fusing appropriately, but when dealing with fault
currents (in the technical sense), it makes little difference if its a
3A or 13A fuse when you try drawing 300A through it.

When you have an extension lead plugged into another, or an old appliance, or something bought from China, it certainly does.

You won't get a adequate fault current through too many cascaded leads,
but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses in case someone may
cascade them seems a bit self defeating.

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting the correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents fires.


NT

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 01:35:45 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/11/16 22:15, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000, wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well, any one
know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting you
should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I know it
was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when did this
change?


No, it wasn't, but ISTR being t0old about 205V DC or thereabouts way
back when.

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=41380

suugests it hung on into the 60's in some areas.

Remember the CEGB wqas created post WWI, and the 'national grid' grew
out of that.

Prior to that time you got whatever voltage and frequency, including DC,
the local power company gave you.


In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and I
remember being told at a young age this was because they were designed
for DC (to prevent arcing). I have Googled many times since and been
unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I was also told it
was related to the closure of the municipal generating station (for
the trams) and introduction of the National Grid but again I can find
no support for this..

It almost certainly was. The rollout of 2540V A/C 50Hz as the 'standard'
happened post War, and was intimately connected to the construction of
the 'national grid'

The original standard was 100-110v ac or dc. This is around the ideal voltage for filament lamps. Most moved on to anything in the 200-250v region ac, but 100/110v dc areas remained into the 1950s.

To make matters worse there were negative and positive earth dc supplies. Radios need mods to work with positive earth. One of my radios is 110v positive earth dc.


NT

On 20/11/2016 02:28, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 00:11:32 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/11/2016 20:13, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 19 November 2016 18:56:25 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/11/2016 15:34, DerbyBorn wrote:



I will stick to fusing with the lowest capacity fuse to suit the current of
the appliance. I want the fuse to blow as soon as possible if there is a
fault.

Nothing wrong with fusing appropriately, but when dealing with fault
currents (in the technical sense), it makes little difference if its a
3A or 13A fuse when you try drawing 300A through it.

When you have an extension lead plugged into another, or an old appliance, or something bought from China, it certainly does.

You won't get a adequate fault current through too many cascaded leads,
but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses in case someone may
cascade them seems a bit self defeating.

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting the correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents fires.

How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming the
lead is designed for a 13A load)?

Are you proposing changing the fuse in the plug depending on what you
have plugged into the far end?

(and for most people the choice of fuse is 3, 5 and 13A - while non
standard options are available from more specialist places, they are not
commonly found in most shops)

Fault protection is what prevents fires. Modern kit built to recognised
standards will be adequately protected by a 13A fuse in the vast
majority of cases.

Ancient kit may require lower fusing, however I would not expect most
modern users to to be able to identify it.

Substandard imported tat is another matter - plenty of it does not even
have provision for fusing!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/11/16 02:34, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 01:35:45 UTC, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 19/11/16 22:15, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000,
wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well,
any one know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting
you should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I
know it was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when
did this change?


No, it wasn't, but ISTR being t0old about 205V DC or thereabouts
way back when.

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=41380

suugests it hung on into the 60's in some areas.

Remember the CEGB wqas created post WWI, and the 'national grid'
grew out of that.

Prior to that time you got whatever voltage and frequency,
including DC, the local power company gave you.


In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and
I remember being told at a young age this was because they were
designed for DC (to prevent arcing). I have Googled many times
since and been unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I
was also told it was related to the closure of the municipal
generating station (for the trams) and introduction of the
National Grid but again I can find no support for this..

It almost certainly was. The rollout of 2540V A/C 50Hz as the
'standard' happened post War, and was intimately connected to the
construction of the 'national grid'

The original standard was 100-110v ac or dc.

My research indicates there was no original standard whatsoever.

It was down to the local power company.


This is around the ideal
voltage for filament lamps.

No, it isn't. about 3V is ideal for filament lamps. The lower the
voltage the fatter the filament and the less likely it is to burn out.

That's why slide projectors were equipped with 12V lamps. That's why LV
lighting was developed.

100-250V is a range that is suitable for domestic wiring because
currents are not too high and neither are voltages.

It was about as high as they could go without running into undue shock
risk and undue insulation requirements.

Keeping currents under 20A meant cheaper cable could be used.

Most moved on to anything in the 200-250v
region ac, but 100/110v dc areas remained into the 1950s.

To make matters worse there were negative and positive earth dc
supplies. Radios need mods to work with positive earth.

Not really. You just need not to touch the chassis....

One of my
radios is 110v positive earth dc.

Jolly good show.



NT



--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 20/11/16 02:34, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 01:35:45 UTC, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 19/11/16 22:15, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000,
wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well,
any one know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting
you should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I
know it was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when
did this change?


No, it wasn't, but ISTR being t0old about 205V DC or thereabouts
way back when.

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=41380

suugests it hung on into the 60's in some areas.

Remember the CEGB wqas created post WWI, and the 'national grid'
grew out of that.

Prior to that time you got whatever voltage and frequency,
including DC, the local power company gave you.


In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and
I remember being told at a young age this was because they were
designed for DC (to prevent arcing). I have Googled many times
since and been unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I
was also told it was related to the closure of the municipal
generating station (for the trams) and introduction of the
National Grid but again I can find no support for this..

It almost certainly was. The rollout of 2540V A/C 50Hz as the
'standard' happened post War, and was intimately connected to the
construction of the 'national grid'

The original standard was 100-110v ac or dc.

My research indicates there was no original standard whatsoever.

It was down to the local power company.


This is around the ideal
voltage for filament lamps.

No, it isn't. about 3V is ideal for filament lamps. The lower the
voltage the fatter the filament and the less likely it is to burn out.

That's why slide projectors were equipped with 12V lamps. That's why LV
lighting was developed.

100-250V is a range that is suitable for domestic wiring because
currents are not too high and neither are voltages.

It was about as high as they could go without running into undue shock
risk and undue insulation requirements.

Keeping currents under 20A meant cheaper cable could be used.

Most moved on to anything in the 200-250v
region ac, but 100/110v dc areas remained into the 1950s.

To make matters worse there were negative and positive earth dc
supplies. Radios need mods to work with positive earth.

Not really. You just need not to touch the chassis....

(snip)

Or the grub screws in the knobs. I know this.





--

Roger Hayter

On 20/11/16 09:44, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 20/11/16 02:34, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 01:35:45 UTC, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 19/11/16 22:15, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000,
wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well,
any one know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting
you should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I
know it was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when
did this change?


No, it wasn't, but ISTR being t0old about 205V DC or thereabouts
way back when.

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=41380

suugests it hung on into the 60's in some areas.

Remember the CEGB wqas created post WWI, and the 'national grid'
grew out of that.

Prior to that time you got whatever voltage and frequency,
including DC, the local power company gave you.


In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and
I remember being told at a young age this was because they were
designed for DC (to prevent arcing). I have Googled many times
since and been unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I
was also told it was related to the closure of the municipal
generating station (for the trams) and introduction of the
National Grid but again I can find no support for this..

It almost certainly was. The rollout of 2540V A/C 50Hz as the
'standard' happened post War, and was intimately connected to the
construction of the 'national grid'

The original standard was 100-110v ac or dc.

My research indicates there was no original standard whatsoever.

It was down to the local power company.


This is around the ideal
voltage for filament lamps.

No, it isn't. about 3V is ideal for filament lamps. The lower the
voltage the fatter the filament and the less likely it is to burn out.

That's why slide projectors were equipped with 12V lamps. That's why LV
lighting was developed.

100-250V is a range that is suitable for domestic wiring because
currents are not too high and neither are voltages.

It was about as high as they could go without running into undue shock
risk and undue insulation requirements.

Keeping currents under 20A meant cheaper cable could be used.

Most moved on to anything in the 200-250v
region ac, but 100/110v dc areas remained into the 1950s.

To make matters worse there were negative and positive earth dc
supplies. Radios need mods to work with positive earth.

Not really. You just need not to touch the chassis....

(snip)

Or the grub screws in the knobs. I know this.




Me too!






--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 01:35:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 19/11/16 22:15, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000, wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well, any one
know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting you
should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I know it
was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when did this
change?


No, it wasn't, but ISTR being t0old about 205V DC or thereabouts way
back when.

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=41380

suugests it hung on into the 60's in some areas.

Very interesting, thanks. It shows up my poor research skills.

In article ,
wrote:
You won't get a adequate fault current through too many cascaded
leads, but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses in case someone
may cascade them seems a bit self defeating.

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting the
correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents fires.

I'd be surprised if you found devices around with as many cable sizes as
that in use these days.

And as regards protecting the device itself, you may need a more specific
type of fuse, like fast blow or whatever.

--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
To make matters worse there were negative and positive earth dc
supplies. Radios need mods to work with positive earth.

Not really. You just need not to touch the chassis....

(snip)

Or the grub screws in the knobs. I know this.

'Universal' radios etc I've seen had the grub screw sockets filled with
hard wax.

--
*Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:19:00 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/11/2016 02:28, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 00:11:32 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/11/2016 20:13, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 19 November 2016 18:56:25 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/11/2016 15:34, DerbyBorn wrote:



I will stick to fusing with the lowest capacity fuse to suit the current of
the appliance. I want the fuse to blow as soon as possible if there is a
fault.

Nothing wrong with fusing appropriately, but when dealing with fault
currents (in the technical sense), it makes little difference if its a
3A or 13A fuse when you try drawing 300A through it.

When you have an extension lead plugged into another, or an old appliance, or something bought from China, it certainly does.

You won't get a adequate fault current through too many cascaded leads,
but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses in case someone may
cascade them seems a bit self defeating.

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting the correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents fires.

How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming the
lead is designed for a 13A load)?

I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated. I assure you they're not. 10A leads get a 10A fuse, 5A leads get a 5A fuse etc. Hardly a challenge.

Are you proposing changing the fuse in the plug depending on what you
have plugged into the far end?

(and for most people the choice of fuse is 3, 5 and 13A - while non
standard options are available from more specialist places, they are not
commonly found in most shops)

Have people not got internet now?

Fault protection is what prevents fires. Modern kit built to recognised
standards will be adequately protected by a 13A fuse in the vast
majority of cases.

Ancient kit may require lower fusing, however I would not expect most
modern users to to be able to identify it.

Hence why people should pick the fuse according to power consumption

Substandard imported tat is another matter - plenty of it does not even
have provision for fusing!

Much does, and again the reason for a suitable fuse is obvious.


NT

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 05:27:47 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/11/16 02:34, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 01:35:45 UTC, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 19/11/16 22:15, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000,
wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well,
any one know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting
you should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I
know it was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when
did this change?


No, it wasn't, but ISTR being t0old about 205V DC or thereabouts
way back when.

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=41380

suugests it hung on into the 60's in some areas.

Remember the CEGB wqas created post WWI, and the 'national grid'
grew out of that.

Prior to that time you got whatever voltage and frequency,
including DC, the local power company gave you.


In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and
I remember being told at a young age this was because they were
designed for DC (to prevent arcing). I have Googled many times
since and been unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I
was also told it was related to the closure of the municipal
generating station (for the trams) and introduction of the
National Grid but again I can find no support for this..

It almost certainly was. The rollout of 2540V A/C 50Hz as the
'standard' happened post War, and was intimately connected to the
construction of the 'national grid'

The original standard was 100-110v ac or dc.

My research indicates there was no original standard whatsoever.

It was down to the local power company.

which at the turn of the century was typically about 100v

This is around the ideal
voltage for filament lamps.

No, it isn't. about 3V is ideal for filament lamps. The lower the
voltage the fatter the filament and the less likely it is to burn out.

3v 100w lamps lose a great deal of heat from the filament ends, bad news for efficacy. It is not ideal.

That's why slide projectors were equipped with 12V lamps. That's why LV
lighting was developed.

100-250V is a range that is suitable for domestic wiring because
currents are not too high and neither are voltages.

It was about as high as they could go without running into undue shock
risk and undue insulation requirements.

Keeping currents under 20A meant cheaper cable could be used.

Most moved on to anything in the 200-250v
region ac, but 100/110v dc areas remained into the 1950s.

To make matters worse there were negative and positive earth dc
supplies. Radios need mods to work with positive earth.

Not really. You just need not to touch the chassis....

You need to prevent touching of chassis, grub screws etc. You need a capacitor on the earth connection. You need to suitably insulate anything connected to chassis. And running it through an RC filter with R on the -ve may be required to disconect the chassis from mains -ve at rf.


NT

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 01:35:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 19/11/16 22:15, Scott wrote:

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting you
should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK

No, it wasn't, but ISTR being t0old about 205V DC or thereabouts way
back when.

It was very common in the early days when a "Power Station " could be
little more than shed with a small engine and a dynamo in it
or a converted water mill with a turbine serving just a few customers.
I can't work out how to link directly but under the heading
Gen.Stations in the Menu on this site
http://www.swehs.co.uk/tactive/sparkhome.php
there is a list of many of the known plants in the South West Counties
and for a good number of entries the current produced.

The pattern appears to be 1900's to 1920's DC after that AC as some of
the early stations were closed or modernised as areas served got
bigger often accompanied by a takeover by a bigger group such as the
Chelmsford based Christy Brothers who beyond the reach of the 1947
act that nationalised the industry still ran the power station on
Alderney till 1979.
http://emep.worldonline.co.uk/SWEHS/docs/news15su.html


http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=41380

suugests it hung on into the 60's in some areas.

Into the 1970's in a couple of places ,
Reading was one of the last ,and I remember reading in the regional
paper that Exeter finally had its last enclave around the canal basin
converted around 1970.
In a book I have "called" Southern Electric , A History" they still
had 39 Customers being served by DC in the Bournemouth area in 1974
though that was more down to the customers choice by then , The last
ones had the DC supply terminated in 1979.according to the book in
1974 it cost over £2000 a year to provide the DC service against an
income of £136.30.
When the Southern Electric Board took over 25 separate power stations
in 1948 they had over 40,000 on DC 20,000 of which were still
unconverted in the late 50's .
If that was similar in other boards then DC was hardly uncommon even
at that stage.

Remember the CEGB wqas created post WWI, and the 'national grid' grew
out of that.

Drew a lot on the expertise NESCO who had already built a grid
around the North East out from Newcastle from the early 1900's.
ISTR their network used 45 Hz till it was standardised.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_...Supply_Company



In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and I
remember being told at a young age this was because they were designed
for DC (to prevent arcing).
I lived on a boat for a few years that had 220 DC equipped with the
correct light switches , basically the spring mechanism would not let
the contacts be moved gently but a lot of pressure till when they
actually sprung they moved quickly.
its a while ago so memory has faded but I think they had two sets of
contacts as well. Externally they looked just like old fashioned round
light switches and many house that had DC would have used the same .
There would be no problem using them after AC conversion and being
robustly constructed would last for years giving away to fashion
rather than faults.
We had another type that had a big side lever sticking out of a metal
box like a miniature old fashioned mains isolator never took one
apart as it obviously contained Ping****its and getting spares for a
switch that had embossed it on MFGRD by the Parker Pen Company seemed
unlikely.


I have Googled many times since and been
unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I was also told it
was related to the closure of the municipal generating station (for
the trams) and introduction of the National Grid but again I can find
no support for this..

It almost certainly was. The rollout of 2540V A/C 50Hz as the 'standard'
happened post War, and was intimately connected to the construction of
the 'national grid'
The 1st grid was fairy well established by the end of the thirties
and it was the 1926 act that created the Central Electricity Board
that set the std for 50Hz, whether that act also set the domestic
voltage at 240 AC as well it seems it took the nationlisation of the
electricity industry and the boards taking over in 1948 to really get
standardisation under way. And adding to the workload was the rural
electrification programme which the boards had to undertake bringing
supplies to areas that the previous private generators could not make
a commercial case for.

So about 20 ish years to convert most with a few pockets a tad longer.


G.Harman

In article ,
wrote:
How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming
the lead is designed for a 13A load)?

I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated. I
assure you they're not. 10A leads get a 10A fuse, 5A leads get a 5A fuse
etc. Hardly a challenge.

Rather silly given the average person won't have a clue how much current
things take. And if, say, a 5 amp fuse blew would likely fit a 13 amp one.

Safer to make them all 13 amp. Much as has happened with all leads these
days.

--
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 11:39:41 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

You won't get a adequate fault current through too many cascaded
leads, but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses in case someone
may cascade them seems a bit self defeating.

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting the
correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents fires.

I'd be surprised if you found devices around with as many cable sizes as
that in use these days.

I'm pretty sure I have all those values in service bar 7A. Appliances cover the full range.


And as regards protecting the device itself, you may need a more specific
type of fuse, like fast blow or whatever.

I doubt it.


NT

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 14:27:19 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming
the lead is designed for a 13A load)?

I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated. I
assure you they're not. 10A leads get a 10A fuse, 5A leads get a 5A fuse
etc. Hardly a challenge.

Rather silly

we've already covered the advantages

given the average person won't have a clue how much current
things take. And if, say, a 5 amp fuse blew would likely fit a 13 amp one.

what have other people's inability to read got to do with me? Why do these discussions always sink into idiocy.

Safer to make them all 13 amp. Much as has happened with all leads these
days.

Obviously it hasn't. This is too dense to discuss any further.

In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 14:27:19 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming
the lead is designed for a 13A load)?

I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated. I
assure you they're not. 10A leads get a 10A fuse, 5A leads get a 5A
fuse etc. Hardly a challenge.

Rather silly

we've already covered the advantages

There aren't any.

given the average person won't have a clue how much current things
take. And if, say, a 5 amp fuse blew would likely fit a 13 amp one.

what have other people's inability to read got to do with me? Why do
these discussions always sink into idiocy.

If you're talking about what is on sale - rather than something you make
up for your own use - rather a lot.

Safer to make them all 13 amp. Much as has happened with all leads
these days.

Obviously it hasn't. This is too dense to discuss any further.

--
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/11/16 12:51, wrote:
Ancient kit may require lower fusing, however I would not expect most
modern users to to be able to identify it.
Hence why people should pick the fuse according to power consumption

Fusing is nothing to do with power. Its about wires not catching fire.



--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 15:57:52 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/11/16 12:51, tabbypurr wrote:

Ancient kit may require lower fusing, however I would not expect most
modern users to to be able to identify it.
Hence why people should pick the fuse according to power consumption

Fusing is nothing to do with power. Its about wires not catching fire.

I didn't know this thread could get even stupider.

On 20/11/2016 12:51, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:19:00 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/11/2016 02:28, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 00:11:32 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/11/2016 20:13, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 19 November 2016 18:56:25 UTC, John Rumm
wrote:
On 19/11/2016 15:34, DerbyBorn wrote:



I will stick to fusing with the lowest capacity fuse to
suit the current of the appliance. I want the fuse to
blow as soon as possible if there is a fault.

Nothing wrong with fusing appropriately, but when dealing
with fault currents (in the technical sense), it makes
little difference if its a 3A or 13A fuse when you try
drawing 300A through it.

When you have an extension lead plugged into another, or an
old appliance, or something bought from China, it certainly
does.

You won't get a adequate fault current through too many
cascaded leads, but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses
in case someone may cascade them seems a bit self defeating.

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting
the correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents
fires.

How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming
the lead is designed for a 13A load)?

I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated.

I don't.

I assume that (non shonky) 13A leads are 13A rated, and will have a 13A
fuse in the plug.

Yes I realise that other leads are available, as I am sure you know full
well.

I
assure you they're not. 10A leads get a 10A fuse, 5A leads get a 5A
fuse etc. Hardly a challenge.

I was saying that for a lead of 13A rating, there is no point in
swapping fuses about each time you use them.

Are you proposing changing the fuse in the plug depending on what
you have plugged into the far end?

(and for most people the choice of fuse is 3, 5 and 13A - while
non standard options are available from more specialist places,
they are not commonly found in most shops)

Have people not got internet now?

Sure, but they need to 1) care, and 2) know enough to ask the question
in the first place.

Fault protection is what prevents fires. Modern kit built to
recognised standards will be adequately protected by a 13A fuse in
the vast majority of cases.

Ancient kit may require lower fusing, however I would not expect
most modern users to to be able to identify it.

Hence why people should pick the fuse according to power consumption

Huh?

So you are now expecting a user to 1) recognise that the kit is 40 years
old class 0 device with 10m of 0.5mm^2 CSA flex, and now work out what
fuse they should put in the extension lead?

Good luck with that one.

Substandard imported tat is another matter - plenty of it does not
even have provision for fusing!

Much does, and again the reason for a suitable fuse is obvious.

Seen any of those Chinese three pin unfused plugs?




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/11/2016 15:23, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 14:27:19 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming
the lead is designed for a 13A load)?

I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated. I
assure you they're not. 10A leads get a 10A fuse, 5A leads get a 5A fuse
etc. Hardly a challenge.

Rather silly

we've already covered the advantages

given the average person won't have a clue how much current
things take. And if, say, a 5 amp fuse blew would likely fit a 13 amp one.

what have other people's inability to read got to do with me? Why do these discussions always sink into idiocy.

Because when one is engineering stuff for use by non technical people,
one tries to make it fool proof and fail safe to a resonable extent.

What one designs for use by technically competent people in controlled
environments is a different matter.

Safer to make them all 13 amp. Much as has happened with all leads these
days.

Obviously it hasn't. This is too dense to discuss any further.

Bet ya do though...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/11/2016 14:56, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 11:39:41 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

You won't get a adequate fault current through too many cascaded
leads, but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses in case someone
may cascade them seems a bit self defeating.

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting the
correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents fires.

I'd be surprised if you found devices around with as many cable sizes as
that in use these days.

I'm pretty sure I have all those values in service bar 7A. Appliances cover the full range.


And as regards protecting the device itself, you may need a more specific
type of fuse, like fast blow or whatever.

I doubt it.

Give it five mins thought and I doubt that you doubt it...

How many appliances have you seen with internal 20mm glass fuses? Were
they all fast blow? All the same rating?

Thermal fuses and cutouts?

Internal fuses are typically for overload protection where there are
plausible failure modes that could generate non fault over currents.
(glass cartridge fuses don't usually have the breaking capacity for
fault protection)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/11/2016 02:34, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 01:35:45 UTC, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 19/11/16 22:15, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:33:00 +0000,
wrote:

[snip]

The early Hoovers would have been used on DC supplies as well,
any one know if any area had DC sockets with an earth?

Drifting from the topic (as is often the way) it is interesting
you should mention DC supply. Was this commonplace in the UK (I
know it was in New York - battle of the currents) and if so when
did this change?


No, it wasn't, but ISTR being t0old about 205V DC or thereabouts
way back when.

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=41380

suugests it hung on into the 60's in some areas.

Remember the CEGB wqas created post WWI, and the 'national grid'
grew out of that.

Prior to that time you got whatever voltage and frequency,
including DC, the local power company gave you.


In our old house some of the sockets had very heavy springs and
I remember being told at a young age this was because they were
designed for DC (to prevent arcing). I have Googled many times
since and been unable to find anything on any 'AC switchover'. I
was also told it was related to the closure of the municipal
generating station (for the trams) and introduction of the
National Grid but again I can find no support for this..

It almost certainly was. The rollout of 2540V A/C 50Hz as the
'standard' happened post War, and was intimately connected to the
construction of the 'national grid'

The original standard was 100-110v ac or dc. This is around the ideal
voltage for filament lamps. Most moved on to anything in the 200-250v
region ac, but 100/110v dc areas remained into the 1950s.

There was no original standard.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/11/2016 16:02, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 15:57:52 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/11/16 12:51, tabbypurr wrote:

Ancient kit may require lower fusing, however I would not expect most
modern users to to be able to identify it.
Hence why people should pick the fuse according to power consumption

Fusing is nothing to do with power. Its about wires not catching fire.

I didn't know this thread could get even stupider.

He is quite correct. The plug fuse is to protect the cable.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated.

I don't.

I assume that (non shonky) 13A leads are 13A rated, and will have a 13A
fuse in the plug.

Yes I realise that other leads are available, as I am sure you know full
well.

I'm sure you might have been able to buy a non 13 amp fused extension lead
once.

If you can today, I'd like to hear of where.

--
*How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 18:47:50 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Yes I realise that other leads are available, as I am sure you know full
well.

I'm sure you might have been able to buy a non 13 amp fused extension lead
once.

If you can today, I'd like to hear of where.

http://www.staging.greenham.com/c/pl...ble-Reel-5-Amp


G.Harman

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 16:38:50 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/11/2016 12:51, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 04:19:00 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/11/2016 02:28, tabbypurr wrote:

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting
the correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents
fires.

How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming
the lead is designed for a 13A load)?

I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated.

I don't.

I assume that (non shonky) 13A leads are 13A rated, and will have a 13A
fuse in the plug.

Yes I realise that other leads are available, as I am sure you know full
well.

I
assure you they're not. 10A leads get a 10A fuse, 5A leads get a 5A
fuse etc. Hardly a challenge.

I was saying that for a lead of 13A rating, there is no point in
swapping fuses about each time you use them.

Are you proposing changing the fuse in the plug depending on what
you have plugged into the far end?

(and for most people the choice of fuse is 3, 5 and 13A - while
non standard options are available from more specialist places,
they are not commonly found in most shops)

Have people not got internet now?

Sure, but they need to 1) care, and 2) know enough to ask the question
in the first place.

Fault protection is what prevents fires. Modern kit built to
recognised standards will be adequately protected by a 13A fuse in
the vast majority of cases.

Ancient kit may require lower fusing, however I would not expect
most modern users to to be able to identify it.

Hence why people should pick the fuse according to power consumption

Huh?

So you are now expecting a user to 1) recognise that the kit is 40 years
old class 0 device with 10m of 0.5mm^2 CSA flex, and now work out what
fuse they should put in the extension lead?

Good luck with that one.

Substandard imported tat is another matter - plenty of it does not
even have provision for fusing!

Much does, and again the reason for a suitable fuse is obvious.

Seen any of those Chinese three pin unfused plugs?

It's called a straw man when you invent something totally brainless, claim the other person said it then criticise it. And it ain't worth discussing.


NT

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 16:41:35 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/11/2016 15:23, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 14:27:19 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming
the lead is designed for a 13A load)?

I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated. I
assure you they're not. 10A leads get a 10A fuse, 5A leads get a 5A fuse
etc. Hardly a challenge.

Rather silly

we've already covered the advantages

given the average person won't have a clue how much current
things take. And if, say, a 5 amp fuse blew would likely fit a 13 amp one.

what have other people's inability to read got to do with me? Why do these discussions always sink into idiocy.

Because when one is engineering stuff for use by non technical people,
one tries to make it fool proof and fail safe to a resonable extent.

And new compliant stuff is. So what?

What one designs for use by technically competent people in controlled
environments is a different matter.

Yes. And?

Safer to make them all 13 amp. Much as has happened with all leads these
days.

Obviously it hasn't. This is too dense to discuss any further.

Bet ya do though...

No, I won't be discussing a ridiculous claim that all extension leads are 13A rated.


NT

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 16:46:30 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/11/2016 14:56, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 11:39:41 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

You won't get a adequate fault current through too many cascaded
leads, but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses in case someone
may cascade them seems a bit self defeating.

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting the
correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents fires.

I'd be surprised if you found devices around with as many cable sizes as
that in use these days.

I'm pretty sure I have all those values in service bar 7A. Appliances cover the full range.


And as regards protecting the device itself, you may need a more specific
type of fuse, like fast blow or whatever.

I doubt it.

Give it five mins thought and I doubt that you doubt it...

How many appliances have you seen with internal 20mm glass fuses? Were
they all fast blow? All the same rating?

Thermal fuses and cutouts?

Internal fuses are typically for overload protection where there are
plausible failure modes that could generate non fault over currents.
(glass cartridge fuses don't usually have the breaking capacity for
fault protection)

All of which is irrelevant to picking a plug fuse for a historic item.

Hint: 20mm fuses did't even exist. And internal fuses were not usually used.


NT

On 20/11/2016 22:01, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 16:46:30 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/11/2016 14:56, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 11:39:41 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

You won't get a adequate fault current through too many cascaded
leads, but fitting all extension leads with 3A fuses in case someone
may cascade them seems a bit self defeating.

Plug fuses are available in 2A 3A 5A 7A 10A & 13A rating. Fitting the
correct one to leads is hardly self defeating, it prevents fires.

I'd be surprised if you found devices around with as many cable sizes as
that in use these days.

I'm pretty sure I have all those values in service bar 7A. Appliances cover the full range.



Read the bit that follows:

And as regards protecting the device itself, you may need a more specific
type of fuse, like fast blow or whatever.

Did you see it mention the fuse in the plug? Or did it just refer to a
fuse protecting the device?

I doubt it.

Give it five mins thought and I doubt that you doubt it...

How many appliances have you seen with internal 20mm glass fuses? Were
they all fast blow? All the same rating?

Thermal fuses and cutouts?

Internal fuses are typically for overload protection where there are
plausible failure modes that could generate non fault over currents.
(glass cartridge fuses don't usually have the breaking capacity for
fault protection)

All of which is irrelevant to picking a plug fuse for a historic item.

Hint: 20mm fuses did't even exist. And internal fuses were not usually used.

Why keep prattling about historic devices, when it has already been
accepted by everyone that they are a special case? They have no
relevance to current practice.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/11/2016 21:58, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 16:41:35 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/11/2016 15:23, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 20 November 2016 14:27:19 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

How do you chose the "correct" fuse for an extension lead (assuming
the lead is designed for a 13A load)?

I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated. I
assure you they're not. 10A leads get a 10A fuse, 5A leads get a 5A fuse
etc. Hardly a challenge.

Rather silly

we've already covered the advantages

given the average person won't have a clue how much current
things take. And if, say, a 5 amp fuse blew would likely fit a 13 amp one.

what have other people's inability to read got to do with me? Why do these discussions always sink into idiocy.

Because when one is engineering stuff for use by non technical people,
one tries to make it fool proof and fail safe to a resonable extent.

And new compliant stuff is. So what?

What one designs for use by technically competent people in controlled
environments is a different matter.

Yes. And?

Safer to make them all 13 amp. Much as has happened with all leads these
days.

Obviously it hasn't. This is too dense to discuss any further.

Bet ya do though...

No, I won't be discussing a ridiculous claim that all extension leads are 13A rated.

Why would you? No one claimed that.

I claimed that 13A extension leads are best protected with a 13A fuse.
Not rocket science is it?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/11/2016 18:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
I can't imagine why you assume extension leads are all 13A rated.

I don't.

I assume that (non shonky) 13A leads are 13A rated, and will have a 13A
fuse in the plug.

Yes I realise that other leads are available, as I am sure you know full
well.

I'm sure you might have been able to buy a non 13 amp fused extension lead
once.

Yup, you certainly used to be able to get 5A ones. I have a 15m cassette
style lead like that somewhere.

If you can today, I'd like to hear of where.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SupaLec-Amp.../dp/B002AN9QIW


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/11/2016 21:55, wrote:

It's called a straw man when you invent something totally brainless, claim the other person said it then criticise it. And it ain't worth discussing.

So grow up and stop doing it then.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/