harry wrote:
On Sep 25, 12:11 pm, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:03:53 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

When the oil runs outbecomes rare/expensive and all energy costs
more, solar panels will be even more viable because they need no
oil to run.

At that point you will find solar panels get stoned to death
alongside those previously receiving the FIT payment.

Welcome to the new stone age, caused by thousands of money grabbing
greedy *******s like you.

Caused by stupid waste of our resources. You only need look no further
than North Sea oil.

And North Sea Gas which Thatcher wasted to generate electricity, to
eliminate the miners rigging the free-market by driving down labour costs.
Then she off-shored manufacturing to the Far East.

harry wrote:
On Sep 25, 4:57 pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,

harry wrote:
On Sep 25, 11:32 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:

Its very efficient. Probably 80% or better.

Wrong as usual TurNiP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alterna...ve_alternators
Efficiency of automotive alternators is limited by fan cooling
loss, bearing loss, iron loss, copper loss, and the voltage drop
in the diode bridges. At partial load efficiency is between
50-62% depending on the size of alternator and varies with
alternator speed.[8] This is similar to very small
high-performance permanent magnet alternators, such as those used
for bicycle lighting systems, which achieve an efficiency around
60%.

What's the efficiency of your solar panels, Harry?
Around 11%.
But neither here nor there as sunshine is free.

The oil in the ground is free, too, but that doesn't mean we should
be satisfied with a low extraction rate.

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of
Rights 1689

Sunshine is inexhaustable and in my garden. And no-one can cut my
supply off.

Oil is too valuable to burn.

Tim Streater wrote:

Sunshine is inexhaustable and in my garden. And no-one can cut my
supply off.

1) Not during the night it's not.

You store it during the day.

2) Not during cloudy weather it's not

You store it during cloudy weather.

Either (1) or (2) above will reduce your efficiency somewhat below
11%.

You made that up.

harry wrote:

Tch you are a halfwit.
It would take ten years to build a nuclear power station, but it's not
going to happen.

harry. It has happened before and it is happening now. Finland
commissioned a new reactor because it was the cheapest way to generate
electricity.

whereas Vestas is laying off staff.. google "bankruptcy solar company"
or "solar power chapter 11" and you get PAGES of companies that have
taken government money, spent it, failed to make a profit and gone bust...

I know you diont like to be on th elisiong side of history harry, but
thats what ahppens when ypu try and pick

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article
,
harry wrote:
Electric motors have two bearings and easily changed at that.

All electric motors have easily changed bearings? Think you need to get
out more. Besides, when a bearing fails, damage may not be restricted to
the bearing itself.

How many are in an IC engine? Fifty? Sixty? More increases the chance
of failure.

You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine? But since you are such an expert, perhaps you'd give details of
when this last happened to you or yours?

--
*Two many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:
Electric motors have two bearings and easily changed at that.

All electric motors have easily changed bearings? Think you need to get
out more. Besides, when a bearing fails, damage may not be restricted to
the bearing itself.

How many are in an IC engine? Fifty? Sixty? More increases the chance
of failure.

You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine? But since you are such an expert, perhaps you'd give details of
when this last happened to you or yours?

one went in the series III alternator just after I sold it to the
farmers son.

It was relatively common in turbochargers..


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine? But since you are such an expert, perhaps you'd give details of
when this last happened to you or yours?

one went in the series III alternator just after I sold it to the
farmers son.

Quite. Just like an electric motor. And probably the most likely bearing
to fail on any engine part after the water pump. Neither of which are fed
from the engine oil system. So an electric oil pump would be absolutely no
help there.

It was relatively common in turbochargers..

Have they got pressure fed bearings?

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine? But since you are such an expert, perhaps you'd give details of
when this last happened to you or yours?

one went in the series III alternator just after I sold it to the
farmers son.

Quite. Just like an electric motor. And probably the most likely bearing
to fail on any engine part after the water pump. Neither of which are fed
from the engine oil system. So an electric oil pump would be absolutely no
help there.

It was relatively common in turbochargers..

Have they got pressure fed bearings?

usually yes.

They are getting better these days.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Sunshine is inexhaustable and in my garden. And no-one can cut my
supply off.

1) Not during the night it's not.

You store it during the day.

The Aussie solar plants are proposing to do that by using some of the
solar heat to melt salt. That salt then drives the gennies during the
night. These are proposed plants producing about 300MW each. They cover
large amounts of land.

We don't have the land for that

Daily Mail & Torygraph propaganda. The UK is EMPTY - only 7.5% of the land
settled.

neither do we have (except for a few days a year) the amount of sun
required.

Then we use something else, like tidal lagoons which the shallow seas around
the UK are perfect for. Duh !

And

You are a silly idiot.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...

All solar panels are 100% efficient as the energy you get is free.

No, on your calculation it would make the efficiency = infinity.

Once again the energy you get is FREE.

So is oil.

There is Capital costs in extracting the oil. Some oil unviable. Once oil
is burnt it is gone. Not the case with sunshine every dawn.

In article , Andy Champ
scribeth thus
On 24/09/2012 20:25, tony sayer wrote:
So then its dissipating under full throttle 300/400 kW?, Surely not?..

At full throttle it's probably a bit more efficient. So 200/300kW.

Surprising isn't it!

Andy

Yes very. I was standing near a 25 kW load bank for a generator test and
that was bloody hot and throwing out a -Lot- of heat. Now my olde motah
when doing say 100 MPH odd, perish the thought here in the UK, will be
dissipating several times that?..

Anyone got a really good graphical representation of the power
consumption/ load/ and output of a modern day IC engine at all?..

--
Tony Sayer

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
harry wrote:
Electric motors have two bearings and easily changed at that.

All electric motors have easily changed bearings? Think you need to get
out more. Besides, when a bearing fails, damage may not be restricted to
the bearing itself.

Tripe! Bearings on large auto electric motors can be quicke replace units.

You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine?

It isn't. Also they loosen off and become noisy and create vibration.

snip drivel

In article , Doctor Drivel invalid@not-
for-mail.invalid scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel invalid@not-
for-mail.invalid scribeth thus

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
harry wrote:
Volkswagen have been experimenting with thermpiles in the exhaust to
make electricity and thus eliminating the alternator.

Crikey. An alternator is actually a very efficient device. Sounds like
they're clutching at straws.

NO, using waste heat to produce electricity . Run a 100A alternator off
an
electric motor.

Eh?, Where or what is powering is err umm rotary converter system?..

Read again.


Yes...

Run a 100A alternator off
an
electric motor.

So what's powering the motor thats powering the generator?.

Waste heat?. If so why drive a motor to drive a generator, doesn't seem
to make any sense...
--
Tony Sayer

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine? But since you are such an expert, perhaps you'd give details of
when this last happened to you or yours?

one went in the series III alternator just after I sold it to the
farmers son.

Quite. Just like an electric motor. And probably the most likely bearing
to fail on any engine part after the water pump. Neither of which are fed
from the engine oil system. So an electric oil pump would be absolutely
no
help there.
It was relatively common in turbochargers..

Have they got pressure fed bearings?

usually yes.

They are getting better these days.

They use fully synthetic oil which makes all the difference.

The oil in the ground is free, too, but that doesn't mean we should be
satisfied with a low extraction rate.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" *-- *Bill of Rights 1689


Sunshine is inexhaustable and in my garden.


And no-one can cut my
supply off.

No one has to Harry .. a bloody nuisance thing called mutter nature and
her clouds of steam up there do just like at the moment and yesterday
and the day before that;(...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , The Other Mike
scribeth thus
On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:27:52 +0100, tony sayer wrote:


I remember driving a rather olde Lotus many years ago that had vacuum
headlamps .. foot to the floor lamps down.. Back off the power lamps
up;!...

Sort of inbuilt speed limiter I suppose;!...

You had a faulty non return valve in the vacuum line. The biggest problem is
raising the lamps at high speed as it is very easy for them to overtravel and
crack the fibreglass on the body.


Look that was a Lotus and it was going, moving!, what more can you
expect from one;?..

As Colin Chapman once said..

"If it hangs together for more than once race then we've built it too
well"!...

Early cars used vacuum to raise the lamps, later ones moved to failsafe lamps
that were raised by a spring and needed the vacuum to stay down.



--
Tony Sayer

In article
..com, harry scribeth thus
On Sep 24, 8:47*pm, tony sayer wrote:
In article
s.com, harry scribeth thus

On Sep 24, 10:49*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *harry wrote:

Volkswagen have been experimenting with *thermpiles in the exhaust to
make electricity and thus eliminating the alternator.

Crikey. An alternator is actually a very efficient device. Sounds like
they're clutching at straws.

An automotive alternator is very inefficient.

Really, why is that and just how inefficient?.

It's inefficient because it's made to a price and petrol was cheap.

Thats err, a very scientific argument Harry;!...


--
Tony Sayer

In article , Doctor Drivel invalid@not-
for-mail.invalid scribeth thus
harry wrote:
On Sep 24, 10:49 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:

Volkswagen have been experimenting with thermpiles in the exhaust to
make electricity and thus eliminating the alternator.

Crikey. An alternator is actually a very efficient device. Sounds
like they're clutching at straws.

An automotive alternator is very inefficient. And not having it
removes a parasitic load from the IC engine.

Harry fantastic, you got it! Unlike some other seniles. An alternator can
take 9-15hp off an engine. Remove it, the mechanical parasitical loads like
oil pump,

So how do you propose this new engine will be lubed then?..

water pump,

And cooled unless its so so efficient it runs just warm to the touch?..

a/c,

Well we can always just sweat I suppose..

and the HP of an engine will rise substantially.
Then the engines can be downsized reducing fuel consumption again.

Suppose we'll have to find candles for the lights so the price of
tallow;!.

Just having an alternator with a clutch that cuts out when accelerating mean
the engine can be downsized and acceleration improved. Also the starter
motors can be downsized as well (cheaper & less weight

That really going the make any real difference how much of a percentage
is that compared to the weight of the battery system. Course I suppose
once the cars rolling on leccy it can be bump started...

and power drawn from
the battery). All this is easy to do, like the next model update could have
it all - Instead of a 1600cc the engine could be 1300cc.






--
Tony Sayer

On 9/26/2012 9:23 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
Sunshine is inexhaustable and in my garden. And no-one can cut my
supply off.

1) Not during the night it's not.

You store it during the day.

The Aussie solar plants are proposing to do that by using some of
the solar heat to melt salt. That salt then drives the gennies
during the night. These are proposed plants producing about 300MW
each. They cover large amounts of land.

We don't have the land for that

Daily Mail & Torygraph propaganda. The UK is EMPTY - only 7.5% of the
land settled.

Empty eh? Tell that to the swarms who live in London and the Midlands.
Also the "unsettled land" is used for growing food - or hadn't you noticed?

And some of the unsettled land is unsuitable for either housing or
agriculture.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 21:28:49 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

Doctor Drivel wrote:

I am a know witless poohead.

I agree.

I imagine he has terrible trouble with soiled hats.

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:29:38 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It was relatively common in turbochargers..

Have they got pressure fed bearings?

usually yes.

And they're amusing in a diesel when they fail :-)

On Monday, September 24, 2012 5:11:23 PM UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sep 24, 12:37*pm, The Natural Philosopher

wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article

,

* *harry wrote:

* the energy required to make it. And mine all the things that go into

it. And get it to where its got to go. And to make all the complex

electronics that help defraud consumers.



Need not come exclusvely from oil.

Nothing in the manufacture of solar panels needs come exclusively from

oil.



Of course there are alternatives. But in the event of oil running out

those alternatives will massively shoot up in price. Making solar panels

even more uneconomic.



renewable energy: a high cost way of generating inconvenient electricity

that depends on the oil economy for its viability.



More drivel fromTurNiP.

As oil disappears renewable energy becomes more viable.

So does none renewable energy such as coal and gas.
we can then dig deeper mines and lots more frakking.

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:53:11 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
harry wrote:
Electric motors have two bearings and easily changed at that.

All electric motors have easily changed bearings? Think you need to get
out more. Besides, when a bearing fails, damage may not be restricted
to the bearing itself.

Tripe! Bearings on large auto electric motors can be quicke replace
units.

Well, the bearing at the shaft end will require at least sliding the
motor out of the way, if not hauling it out of the vehicle entirely. Not
quite as much faff as hauling an IC engine out to change a clutch plate
(say), but I don't think it's at the trivial end of the scale, either.

You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine?

It isn't. Also they loosen off and become noisy and create vibration.

I think outright failure's pretty rare (barring issues with oil
starvation); a vehicle will typically end up scrapped for other reasons
before then. Agree about the noise though, although they seem to last
well enough even after they've hit that point (unlike poxy wheel hub
bearings, bah!)

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:08:27 -0700, harry wrote:
The main benefit of an electric oil pump is that you can start it before
starting the IC engine so reducing wear to almost nil.

Does it make a significant difference? It's still going to be pumping
cold oil, and for any engine that was recently run I'd expect it to have
a film of oil still clinging to any sliding surfaces.

Pre-heating everything prior to start might be kinder, but that takes
power (or, if you're a little farther north than me, lighting a fire
under the engine block isn't unheard of ;-)

cheers

Jules

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:41:05 AM UTC+1, Tim Streater wrote:
In article

,

harry wrote:



On Sep 24, 5:21*pm, The Natural Philosopher

wrote:

harry wrote:

On Sep 24, 12:37 pm, The Natural Philosopher

wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article

,

* *harry wrote:

* the energy required to make it. And mine all the things that go into

it. And get it to where its got to go. And to make all the complex

electronics that help defraud consumers.

Need not come exclusvely from oil.

Nothing in the manufacture of solar panels needs come exclusively from

oil.

Of course there are alternatives. But in the event of oil running out

those alternatives will massively shoot up in price. Making solar panels

even more uneconomic.

renewable energy: a high cost way of generating inconvenient electricity

that depends on the oil economy for its viability.



More drivel fromTurNiP.

As oil disappears renewable energy becomes more viable.



Not really harry, since nuclear power will always be cheaper than your

solar panels. and when civilisation collapses, no one will pay for your

electricity anyway.





More crap.

We were told it was going to be free at one time.



Only by politicians and the media.

I remmeber doing a project on it at school in the early 70s
the claim that nuclear energy would be so cheap to produce that it wouldn't
be worth the cost pof writing a cheque so no one would get charge for electricity.
If onmly we could generate power from political lies and corruption, we'd be sorted then





--

Tim



"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,

nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 02:10:36 -0700, harry wrote:
There is scope too for reducing the electrical lload too. Most of it is
unnecesary anyway. Trivia like electric seats/mirrors/sunroofs.

Delayed lighting, central locking, tyre monitors, parking sensors, heated
seats, rain sensors, power windows, lights-on reminders, and heated
fecking cup-holders...

(OK, I made that last one up, but it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't
exist somewhere)

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 01:54:17 -0700, harry wrote:
Efficiency of automotive alternators is limited by fan cooling loss,
bearing loss, iron loss, copper loss, and the voltage drop in the diode
bridges.

I've got an electro-mechanical regulator in the ol' truck, which at least
gets around the diode losses ;-)

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:02:19 +0100, tony sayer wrote:
Harry fantastic, you got it! Unlike some other seniles. An alternator
can take 9-15hp off an engine. Remove it, the mechanical parasitical
loads like oil pump,

So how do you propose this new engine will be lubed then?..

Drip-fed from little brass cups at the top of the engine; he's going to
stop every few miles to top them up.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:01:40 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:
NO, using waste heat to produce electricity . Run a 100A alternator
off an electric motor. Most take around a 8 to 9 Hp motor to turn it
when charging. That is they take about 9 hp off the crank.

I think you've finally flipped. Use an electric motor to generate
electricity...

Effing senile fool.

I suppose you could have a bigger alternator producing the power to run
the electric motor which drives the smaller alternator - but how would
you drive the bigger alternator?

Wait... unless you had a bigger electric motor, too... now I see what
you're getting at!

In article ,
Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 02:10:36 -0700, harry wrote:
There is scope too for reducing the electrical lload too. Most of it is
unnecesary anyway. Trivia like electric seats/mirrors/sunroofs.

Delayed lighting, central locking, tyre monitors, parking sensors, heated
seats, rain sensors, power windows, lights-on reminders, and heated
fecking cup-holders...

(OK, I made that last one up, but it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't
exist somewhere)
There are USB ones, and you can get a car socket to USB converter, so ...


but, there's a lot of non-trivia: external lights, heated rear screen,
heater fan, wipers, fron & rear. Yes, I know someone suggested vaccuum
wipers like the old 1960s Ford Popular, but how about the rear window?,

Having had to rescue people who ended up with a flat battery, I wouldn't
put lights-on reminders in the non-essentials ;-)

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Sep 26, 10:58*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *harry wrote:

Electric motors have two bearings and easily changed at that.

All electric motors have easily changed bearings? Think you need to get
out more. Besides, when a bearing fails, damage may not be restricted to
the bearing itself.

How many are in an IC engine? *Fifty? Sixty? More increases the chance
of failure.

You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine? But since you are such an expert, perhaps you'd give details of
when this last happened to you or yours?

Simpler is always more reliable all else beingequal.

I had to fit new big end shells and main bearing shells to a Rover V8
engine about ten years ago.

On Sep 26, 10:00*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
harry wrote:
Tch you are a halfwit.
It would take ten years to build a nuclear power station, but it's not
going to happen.

harry. It has happened before and it is happening now. Finland
commissioned a new reactor because it was the cheapest way to generate
electricity.

whereas Vestas is laying off staff.. google "bankruptcy solar company"
or "solar power chapter 11" and you get PAGES of companies that have
taken government money, spent it, failed to make a profit and gone bust....

I know you diont like to be on th elisiong side of history harry, but
thats what ahppens when ypu try and pick


Right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear...wer_s tations

Lots of existing ones going bankrupt.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...31-723781.html

A list of failures here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nited_Stat es

On Sep 26, 11:07*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
* *harry wrote:
Electric motors have two bearings and easily changed at that.

All electric motors have easily changed bearings? Think you need to get
out more. Besides, when a bearing fails, damage may not be restricted to
the bearing itself.

How many are in an IC engine? *Fifty? Sixty? More increases the chance
of failure.

You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine? But since you are such an expert, perhaps you'd give details of
when this last happened to you or yours?

one went in the series III alternator just after I sold it to the
farmers son.

It was relatively common in turbochargers..

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

There are no turbochargers on electric motors.

On Sep 26, 8:18*am, charles wrote:
In article
,
* *harry wrote:

[Snip]

Sunshine is inexhaustable and in my garden. *And no-one can cut my
supply off.

ever heard of clouds?


Someone is controlling clouds?

On Sep 26, 2:11*pm, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Andy Champ
scribeth thus

On 24/09/2012 20:25, tony sayer wrote:
So then its dissipating under full throttle 300/400 kW?, Surely not?..

At full throttle it's probably a bit more efficient. *So 200/300kW.

Surprising isn't it!

Andy

Yes very. I was standing near a 25 kW load bank for a generator test and
that was bloody hot and throwing out a -Lot- of heat. Now my olde motah
when doing say 100 MPH odd, perish the thought here in the UK, will be
dissipating several *times that?..

Anyone got a really good graphical representation of the power
consumption/ load/ and output of a modern day IC engine at all?..

--
Tony Sayer

I will.
It can only do it because the air movement is used to dissipate the
heat.
If you test a car on a rolling road, you need a big fan to waft air
through the radiator.

On Sep 26, 2:11*pm, tony sayer wrote:
In article
.com, harry scribeth thus









On Sep 24, 8:47*pm, tony sayer wrote:
In article
s.com, harry scribeth thus

On Sep 24, 10:49*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *harry wrote:

Volkswagen have been experimenting with *thermpiles in the exhaust to
make electricity and thus eliminating the alternator.

Crikey. An alternator is actually a very efficient device. Sounds like
they're clutching at straws.

An automotive alternator is very inefficient.

Really, why is that and just how inefficient?.

It's inefficient because it's made to a price and petrol was cheap.

Thats err, a very scientific argument Harry;!...

It's an economic argument not scientific..

They could be made far more efficient with say neodymium magnets
instead of electromagnets. The air gaps in the magnetic circuit could
be reduced.

All costs money. More than people are prepared to pay when petrol is
cheap.

On Sep 26, 2:11*pm, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Doctor *Drivel invalid@not-
for-mail.invalid scribeth thus









harry wrote:
On Sep 24, 10:49 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:

Volkswagen have been experimenting with thermpiles in the exhaust to
make electricity and thus eliminating the alternator.

Crikey. An alternator is actually a very efficient device. Sounds
like they're clutching at straws.

An automotive alternator is very inefficient. *And not having it
removes a parasitic load from the IC engine.

Harry fantastic, you got it! *Unlike some other seniles. *An alternator can
take 9-15hp off an engine. Remove it, the mechanical parasitical loads like
oil pump,

So how do you propose this new engine will be lubed then?..

water pump,

And cooled unless its so so efficient it runs just warm to the touch?..

a/c,

Well we can always just sweat I suppose..

and the HP of an engine will rise substantially.
Then the engines can be downsized reducing fuel consumption again.

Suppose we'll have to find candles for the lights so the price of
tallow;!.



Just having an alternator with a clutch that cuts out when accelerating mean
the engine can be downsized and acceleration improved. *Also the starter
motors can be downsized as well (cheaper & less weight

That really going the make any real difference how much of a percentage
is that compared to the weight of the battery system. Course I suppose
once the cars rolling on leccy it can be bump started...

and power drawn from
the battery). *All this is easy to do, like the next model update could have
it all - Instead of a 1600cc the engine could be 1300cc.

--
Tony Sayer

The ancilliaries all have their own electric motors. They only run to
the level actually needed.
This is old hat. You can buy this stuff now.

On Sep 26, 2:22*pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
*"Doctor *Drivel" wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...

All solar panels are 100% efficient as the energy you get is free..

No, on your calculation it would make the efficiency = infinity.

Once again the energy you get is FREE.

So is oil.

There is Capital costs in extracting the oil. *Some oil unviable. *Once oil
is burnt it is gone. *Not the case with sunshine every dawn.

There is capital costs too with the solar panels, chump.


Are you illiterate? Don't you read stuff? There are no energy running
costs with renewable energy sources.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
All electric motors have easily changed bearings? Think you need to get
out more. Besides, when a bearing fails, damage may not be restricted to
the bearing itself.

Tripe! Bearings on large auto electric motors can be quicke replace
units.

Proof, please. And I'd hope, given just how new most electric cars are,
bearing replacement would not be a common thing.

You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine?

It isn't. Also they loosen off and become noisy and create vibration.

You must move on from that Model Y Ford...

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jules Richardson wrote:
All electric motors have easily changed bearings? Think you need to get
out more. Besides, when a bearing fails, damage may not be restricted
to the bearing itself.

Tripe! Bearings on large auto electric motors can be quicke replace
units.

Well, the bearing at the shaft end will require at least sliding the
motor out of the way, if not hauling it out of the vehicle entirely. Not
quite as much faff as hauling an IC engine out to change a clutch plate
(say), but I don't think it's at the trivial end of the scale, either.

Plus if a bearing fails in a major way, other damage may well be caused.
The more dribble dribbles, the more it becomes obvious he has no practical
experience of anything he dribbles about.

You missed the fact that bearing failure is most unusual on a modern
engine?

It isn't. Also they loosen off and become noisy and create vibration.

I think outright failure's pretty rare (barring issues with oil
starvation); a vehicle will typically end up scrapped for other reasons
before then.

Quite. But, of course, few electric cars will cover the mileage heavily
used IC engines ones do. They simply ain't suitable for long distance use
and probably never will be. Most will give up on them after the first long
journey and use the train in future.



Agree about the noise though, although they seem to last
well enough even after they've hit that point (unlike poxy wheel hub
bearings, bah!)

These all in one units so common these days do seem to have a short life.
I've had several cars with the old adjustable taper bearings that got
scrapped without them ever being replaced.

--
*If I throw a stick, will you leave?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.