JESUS IS LORD, and believe in your heart that GOD hath raised HIM from
the dead, thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (cf.THE HOLY BIBLE:
ROMANS 10:9 and ACTS 16:31b)

Have you received THE LORD GOD OF ISRAELS MOST BELOVED and ONLY
BEGOTTEN SON, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, to be your personal Lord and
Savior?

If not, say this prayer: €œLORD GOD, please forgive me of my sins.
Thank YOU for YOUR Faithfulness in always being with me and loving me
so much to send me YOUR MOST BELOVED and ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THE LORD
JESUS CHRIST, to die on the cross for me. I receive HIM now into my
heart and life to be my Lord and Savior. I pray this in the name of
GOD, THE FATHER; GOD, THE SON; and GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT. €* Amen.€�

€œSo let everyone in Israel know for certain that GOD has made this
JESUS, whom you crucified, to be both Lord and Messiah!€� ACTS 2:36

€œFor I tell you, you will not see ME again until you say, 'Blessed is
HE who comes in the name of THE LORD.'€� MATTHEW 23:39

Visit and share this with family, friends, fans, and followers:
www.BIBLEstudycd.com/Lessons.html

May you be blessed abundantly!


THE GOSPEL:
www.ebible.com/kjv/matthew
www.ebible.com/kjv/mark
www.ebible.com/kjv/luke
www.ebible.com/kjv/john

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT), PAIR OF ********
wrote:

CRAP,

So, please **** off, there's a good nutter.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT), PAIR OF ********
wrote:

CRAP,

So, please **** off, there's a good nutter.

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

the_constructor wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT), PAIR OF ********
wrote:

CRAP,
So, please **** off, there's a good nutter.

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?


perhaps he doesn't have faith in anything.

--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

En el artículo ,
the_constructor escribió:

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Why does he have to have faith in anything? Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo ,
the_constructor escribió:

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Why does he have to have faith in anything? Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?

Indeed. It seems to me after many years of taking up arms in defence of
if not atheism certainly agnosticism, that the average Believer is
incapable of living without Faith In Something. More, incapable of
understanding that life is even possible in such a condition.

Now whilst my forays into metaphysics have convinced me that, in the
limit to live a functional life at all, one must *assume* something - if
no more than that one exists in a phenomenal world - in order to be
able to operate in such a world - I don't feel the deep need to have
faith that this is in fact an accurate model of my experience. It's
simply 'what I need to assume to get to Tescos' as it were. And 'getting
to Tescos' is simply a part of a process that makes a feeling that I
call 'bad' get replaced by a full tummy and a feeling I call 'much better'

William of Ogham/Ockham/Occam made the point.

"Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity"

"entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem"

Religion is a vain and unnecessary extravagance of intellectual and
emotional modelling. A way to control the sheeple by feeding their egos
and telling than that they are, rather than vague insignificant specks
of dust in a totally alien and uncaring universe, in fact somehow
important- if not central - to it, and what they do is of huge
significance to it..

I am always amused by a bit of dialogue out of one of Castanedas works:

"I have learnt that nothing really matters in the world"
"But how can you continue to live when nothing matters to you?"
"Because it no longer matters to me that nothing matters to me, of course!"




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo ,
the_constructor escribió:

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Why does he have to have faith in anything? Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?

Indeed. It seems to me after many years of taking up arms in defence of
if not atheism certainly agnosticism, that the average Believer is
incapable of living without Faith In Something. More, incapable of
understanding that life is even possible in such a condition.

Now whilst my forays into metaphysics have convinced me that, in the
limit to live a functional life at all, one must *assume* something - if
no more than that one exists in a phenomenal world - in order to be
able to operate in such a world - I don't feel the deep need to have
faith that this is in fact an accurate model of my experience. It's
simply 'what I need to assume to get to Tescos' as it were. And 'getting
to Tescos' is simply a part of a process that makes a feeling that I
call 'bad' get replaced by a full tummy and a feeling I call 'much better'

William of Ogham/Ockham/Occam made the point.

"Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity"

"entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem"

Religion is a vain and unnecessary extravagance of intellectual and
emotional modelling. A way to control the sheeple by feeding their egos
and telling than that they are, rather than vague insignificant specks
of dust in a totally alien and uncaring universe, in fact somehow
important- if not central - to it, and what they do is of huge
significance to it..

I am always amused by a bit of dialogue out of one of Castanedas works:

"I have learnt that nothing really matters in the world"
"But how can you continue to live when nothing matters to you?"
"Because it no longer matters to me that nothing matters to me, of course!"





Here endeth the first lesson ...

....Amen....

--
Tony Sayer

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo ,
the_constructor escribió:

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Why does he have to have faith in anything? Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?

Your presumption that all members of the Clergy, are as you put it
"guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddlers". That's the same as saying all males and
females, yes, you read right, femailes, are kiddy-fidlers. What goes on
behind your front door or your neighbours front door, no one knows.

If he has no faith whatsoever in any person or being, then he is a very
lonely and poor person.

We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't survive.

Jim G

On Jun 16, 3:34*pm, "the_constructor"
wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message

...

En el art culo ,
the_constructor escribi :

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Why does he have to have faith in anything? *Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?

Your presumption that all members of the Clergy, are as you put it
"guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddlers". That's the same as saying all males and
females, yes, you read right, femailes, are kiddy-fidlers. What goes on
behind your front door or your neighbours front door, no one knows.

If he has no faith whatsoever in any person or being, then he is a very
lonely and poor person.

We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't survive.

Jim G

That isn't true. There are plenty of broken people that believe in
nothing, but survive.

And of course believing in something isn't the same as having faith in
it.


NT

the_constructor wrote:

We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't survive.


Total unadulterated ********.




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

NT wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:34 pm, "the_constructor"
wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message

...

En el art culo ,
the_constructor escribi :
So what do you have faith in Grimly ?
Why does he have to have faith in anything? Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?
Your presumption that all members of the Clergy, are as you put it
"guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddlers". That's the same as saying all males and
females, yes, you read right, femailes, are kiddy-fidlers. What goes on
behind your front door or your neighbours front door, no one knows.

If he has no faith whatsoever in any person or being, then he is a very
lonely and poor person.

We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't survive.

Jim G

That isn't true. There are plenty of broken people that believe in
nothing, but survive.


No, they are the whole people. Its the broken people that have to patch
up their lives with Faith.

And of course believing in something isn't the same as having faith in
it.

Well it is in a religious context.


NT


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 16/06/2012 16:34, the_constructor wrote:


We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't survive.


Belief in God is the adult equivalent of believing in Santa. Behave
according to some laid down rules and you will get rewarded with
presents / everlasting life in heaven.

If believing in sky fairies is what it takes for some people to
"survive" or find purpose with their lives then good luck to them. I
just ask they don't try to push their primitive / outdated beliefs down
my throat, like the OP spammer of this thread and those idiot Jehovah's
Witnesses who knock on my door occasionally.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 07:13:26 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:


"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT), PAIR OF ********
wrote:

CRAP,

So, please **** off, there's a good nutter.

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Me, myself, and I.
Oh, and the inherent decency of most people.
Apart from the ****s, that is.

On Jun 16, 4:00*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:34 pm, "the_constructor"
wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message

...

En el art culo ,
the_constructor escribi :
So what do you have faith in Grimly ?
Why does he have to have faith in anything? *Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?
Your presumption that all members of the Clergy, are as you put it
"guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddlers". That's the same as saying all males and
females, yes, you read right, femailes, are kiddy-fidlers. What goes on
behind your front door or your neighbours front door, no one knows.

If he has no faith whatsoever in any person or being, then he is a very
lonely and poor person.

We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't survive.

Jim G

That isn't true. There are plenty of broken people that believe in
nothing, but survive.

No, they are the whole people. Its the broken people that have to patch
up their lives with Faith.

People with no belief in anything are down and outs. They've given up.
People that do constructive things have a purpose in mind, and a
belief in something that matters.

Religion provides many a belief in something, and a seemingly good
purpose to believe in and follow. For the ones that didn't already
have a belief and purpose, that feels good. History has shown how in
reality people use religious teachings for both good & evil ends, and
people are still dying because of baseless religious beliefs.


And of course believing in something isn't the same as having faith in
it.

Well it is in a religious context.

2 quite different concepts. Eg I can believe in being good to people
without having faith in anything. Religion is faith.


NT

"David in Normandy" wrote in message
r...
On 16/06/2012 16:34, the_constructor wrote:


We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't
survive.


Belief in God is the adult equivalent of believing in Santa. Behave
according to some laid down rules and you will get rewarded with presents
/ everlasting life in heaven.

If believing in sky fairies is what it takes for some people to "survive"
or find purpose with their lives then good luck to them. I just ask they
don't try to push their primitive / outdated beliefs down my throat, like
the OP spammer of this thread and those idiot Jehovah's Witnesses who
knock on my door occasionally.

Just think yourself lucky the inquisition isn't about, that's when the
lunatics ran the asylum.
When they weren't killing their own they just went to war with another set
of people with faith.

NT wrote:
On Jun 16, 4:00 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:34 pm, "the_constructor"
wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el art culo ,
the_constructor escribi :
So what do you have faith in Grimly ?
Why does he have to have faith in anything? Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?
Your presumption that all members of the Clergy, are as you put it
"guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddlers". That's the same as saying all males and
females, yes, you read right, femailes, are kiddy-fidlers. What goes on
behind your front door or your neighbours front door, no one knows.
If he has no faith whatsoever in any person or being, then he is a very
lonely and poor person.
We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't survive.
Jim G
That isn't true. There are plenty of broken people that believe in
nothing, but survive.
No, they are the whole people. Its the broken people that have to patch
up their lives with Faith.

People with no belief in anything are down and outs. They've given up.
People that do constructive things have a purpose in mind, and a
belief in something that matters.

Religion provides many a belief in something, and a seemingly good
purpose to believe in and follow. For the ones that didn't already
have a belief and purpose, that feels good. History has shown how in
reality people use religious teachings for both good & evil ends, and
people are still dying because of baseless religious beliefs.


And of course believing in something isn't the same as having faith in
it.
Well it is in a religious context.

2 quite different concepts. Eg I can believe in being good to people
without having faith in anything. Religion is faith.


No, you can do good to people without having a religion... Once you
believe in it, that's faith.

NT


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 07:13:26 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:


"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT), PAIR OF ********
wrote:

CRAP,

So, please **** off, there's a good nutter.

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Me, myself, and I.
Oh, and the inherent decency of most people.
Apart from the ****s, that is.

Speak to any Doctor or Nurse in a Trauma unit or ICU and they will tell you
that even the non believers start to pray.

I am not ramming my beliefs down anyones throat, I was just asking Grimly
what he had faith in.

Infact everyone has faith in someone or being. You have faith that a surgeon
when probing about inside you will do his/her upmost to make you better.
Faith in the tradesman who comes to your house to do a job, that he does it
to your liking and to comply with the regulations at the time, etc etc etc.

Faith isn't just in a superior being.....!!

Jim G

En el artículo , Grimly
Curmudgeon escribió:

Oh, and the inherent decency of most people.

"Do as thou wilt be done by" is my credo, i.e. treat others as you
yourself would wish to be treated.

If pushed, I would describe myself as a humanist (with a small h).

Apart from the ****s, that is.

Troo.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

En el artículo ,
the_constructor escribió:

Infact everyone has faith in someone or being.

One can have faith in the human race, which is more meaningful than
having faith promulgated by a vastly rich "Church" stuffed with kiddy-
fiddlers which controls gullible believers according to the dictates of
a 2,000 year old fairy story.

That goes for the Bible, the Koran, and for any organised "religion".

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

En el artículo , Mike Tomlinson
escribió:

That goes for the Bible, the Koran, and for any organised "religion".

Not to mention that organised "religion" is directly responsible for the
vast majority of intolerance, pain, misery and human conflict.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

David in Normandy wrote:

On 16/06/2012 16:34, the_constructor wrote:


We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't
survive.


Belief in God is the adult equivalent of believing in Santa. Behave
according to some laid down rules and you will get rewarded with
presents / everlasting life in heaven.

If believing in sky fairies is what it takes for some people to
"survive" or find purpose with their lives then good luck to them. I
just ask they don't try to push their primitive / outdated beliefs down
my throat, like the OP spammer of this thread and those idiot Jehovah's
Witnesses who knock on my door occasionally.

I am open minded in the possibility of a "creator" - in that I still find it
hard to see how evolution by itself could lead to the complexity exhibited
by life on earth.

However, I find it extremely difficult to believe that out of 3 x10^23 stars
in the observable universe (and how many "universes" are there) that:

a) We are unique in being the only star system with high order life;

b) Given a), that we are anything special (at least individually) to whoever
may have created place is an incredible assumption.

c) If the "creator" had meant us to worship him, then he could have done a
better job of turning up and saying "hi" rather than being vague enough so
the world divides itself into bunch of factions...

What I have observed however, is that those who would claim to represent the
creator as a corporate body are invariably corrupt with their own agendas so
I will have nothing to do with them.


--
Tim Watts

On Jun 16, 6:22*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 16, 4:00 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:34 pm, "the_constructor"
wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el art culo ,
the_constructor escribi :
So what do you have faith in Grimly ?
Why does he have to have faith in anything? *Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?
Your presumption that all members of the Clergy, are as you put it
"guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddlers". That's the same as saying all males and
females, yes, you read right, femailes, are kiddy-fidlers. What goes on
behind your front door or your neighbours front door, no one knows.
If he has no faith whatsoever in any person or being, then he is a very
lonely and poor person.
We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't survive.
Jim G
That isn't true. There are plenty of broken people that believe in
nothing, but survive.
No, they are the whole people. Its the broken people that have to patch
up their lives with Faith.

People with no belief in anything are down and outs. They've given up.
People that do constructive things have a purpose in mind, and a
belief in something that matters.

Religion provides many a belief in something, and a seemingly good
purpose to believe in and follow. For the ones that didn't already
have a belief and purpose, that feels good. History has shown how in
reality people use religious teachings for both good & evil ends, and
people are still dying because of baseless religious beliefs.

And of course believing in something isn't the same as having faith in
it.
Well it is in a religious context.

2 quite different concepts. Eg I can believe in being good to people
without having faith in anything. *Religion is faith.

No, you can do good to people without having a religion...

obviously. I get the feeling we're talking at cross purposes

Once you
believe in it, that's faith.

only in the case of religion. There are lots of things people believe
in that dont involve faith


NT

In message ,
the_constructor writes

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 07:13:26 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:


"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT), PAIR OF ********
wrote:

CRAP,

So, please **** off, there's a good nutter.

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Me, myself, and I.
Oh, and the inherent decency of most people.
Apart from the ****s, that is.

Speak to any Doctor or Nurse in a Trauma unit or ICU and they will tell you
that even the non believers start to pray.


That's because the Judaeo-Christian belief system was so comprehensively
rammed down our throats in our formative years

Its the same as some people in desperation, when scientific medicine
cannot save them (advanced cancer for example) turn to quack remedies in
desperation

I can guarantee you that I shall not be praying to a man on a stick or
other similar imaginary sky fairy, NO ! not even the flying spaghetti
monster

--
geoff

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:28:05 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:

Speak to any Doctor or Nurse in a Trauma unit or ICU and they will tell you
that even the non believers start to pray.

Please. Do **** off.

In article ,
the_constructor scribeth thus

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 07:13:26 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:


"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT), PAIR OF ********
wrote:

CRAP,

So, please **** off, there's a good nutter.

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Me, myself, and I.
Oh, and the inherent decency of most people.
Apart from the ****s, that is.

Speak to any Doctor or Nurse in a Trauma unit or ICU and they will tell you
that even the non believers start to pray.

Well I had a month in a Neuro ITU unit and all I wanted to do was to get
home and have some decent tea).

Don't remember praying, grumblin more like;!....


I am not ramming my beliefs down anyones throat, I was just asking Grimly
what he had faith in.

Infact everyone has faith in someone or being. You have faith that a surgeon
when probing about inside you will do his/her upmost to make you better.
Faith in the tradesman who comes to your house to do a job, that he does it
to your liking and to comply with the regulations at the time, etc etc etc.

Faith isn't just in a superior being.....!!

Jim G




--
Tony Sayer

the_constructor wrote
Mike Tomlinson wrote
the_constructor wrote

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Why does he have to have faith in anything? Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock dictating
to him?

If he has no faith whatsoever in any person or being, then he is a very
lonely and poor person.

Wrong.

We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't
survive.

That’s just plain wrong. Plenty don’t need any faith in anything.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 09:59:37 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:

And of course believing in something isn't the same as having faith in
it.

Well it is in a religious context.

2 quite different concepts. Eg I can believe in being good to people
without having faith in anything. Religion is faith.

and faith is used to protect beliefs from truth(s).
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

"the_constructor" wrote in message
...

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 07:13:26 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:


"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT), PAIR OF ********
wrote:

CRAP,

So, please **** off, there's a good nutter.

So what do you have faith in Grimly ?

Me, myself, and I.
Oh, and the inherent decency of most people.
Apart from the ****s, that is.

Speak to any Doctor or Nurse in a Trauma unit or ICU and they will tell
you that even the non believers start to pray.

Whatever they say, I didn’t when I was in ICU.

I am not ramming my beliefs down anyones throat, I was just asking Grimly
what he had faith in.

And both he and I don’t have any faith in anything in that sense.

Infact everyone has faith in someone or being.

Wrong.

You have faith that a surgeon when probing about inside you will do
his/her upmost to make you better.

I have no faith in that either and make damned sure that he knows
what he is doing before he ever gets to do anything like that.

Faith in the tradesman who comes to your house to do a job,

Don’t have that either and instead make sure he does what he is paid to do.

that he does it to your liking and to comply with the regulations at the
time, etc etc etc.

Don’t have that either and instead make sure he does what he is paid to do.

Faith isn't just in a superior being.....!!

You don’t have to have faith in anything. You can just check that it happens
instead.

I don’t have any faith in my own skills either, when it
matters I check that I have done what I intended to do.

"NT" wrote in message
...
On Jun 16, 4:00 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:34 pm, "the_constructor"
wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message

...

En el art culo ,
the_constructor escribi :
So what do you have faith in Grimly ?
Why does he have to have faith in anything? Perhaps he's perfectly
capable of standing on his own two feet and aligning his own moral
compass without some guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddler in a frock
dictating
to him?
Your presumption that all members of the Clergy, are as you put it
"guilt-tripping kiddy-fiddlers". That's the same as saying all males
and
females, yes, you read right, femailes, are kiddy-fidlers. What goes
on
behind your front door or your neighbours front door, no one knows.

If he has no faith whatsoever in any person or being, then he is a
very
lonely and poor person.

We all have to have faith in someone or something, else we wouldn't
survive.

Jim G

That isn't true. There are plenty of broken people that believe in
nothing, but survive.

No, they are the whole people. Its the broken people that have to patch
up their lives with Faith.

People with no belief in anything are down and outs.

That's just plain wrong.

They've given up.

That's just plain wrong.

People that do constructive things

Mindlessly binary.

have a purpose in mind, and a belief in something that matters.

Not necessarily.

Religion provides many a belief in something,

And is just a crutch for pathetically inadequate 'minds'

and a seemingly good purpose to believe in and follow.

Depends entirely on the tenets of that particular religion.

Why should anyone actually be stupid enough to believe
in some religion that claims that your kid will be left to die
of some unspeakable disease if you don't grovel to their
god properly ? Or one that does nothing about religious
professionals who **** children ? Or have a god that
purportedly demanded that everyone hack the end off
their kid's dicks on day 10 or whenever it is ?

For the ones that didn't already have
a belief and purpose, that feels good.

So does a crutch. And Santa for kids. Sucking their thumbs too.

History has shown how in reality people use
religious teachings for both good & evil ends,

And that it's a quite effective way to get most to do
something in the days when almost everyone is illiterate.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense today to just let the
voters decide when divorce makes sense etc instead
and that stoning to death is no long appropriate
when someone like Adam ****s around.

and people are still dying because of baseless religious beliefs.

And those that don't bother with any religion don't.

And of course believing in something isn't the same as having faith in
it.

Well it is in a religious context.

2 quite different concepts. Eg I can believe in being
good to people without having faith in anything.

Yep, just because society works better that way.,

Religion is faith.

And not having any faith in anything works fine.

Mike Tomlinson wrote
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote

Oh, and the inherent decency of most people.

"Do as thou wilt be done by" is my credo, i.e.
treat others as you yourself would wish to be treated.

Even that can't really fly. I treat technoklutzes very differently
to how I want to be treated myself with complicated stuff.

If pushed, I would describe myself as a humanist (with a small h).

I'm not any sort of ist myself.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:28:05 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:

Speak to any Doctor or Nurse in a Trauma unit or ICU and they will tell
you
that even the non believers start to pray.

Please. Do **** off.

Your answer to everything............
Jim G

In message ,
the_constructor writes

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:28:05 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:

Speak to any Doctor or Nurse in a Trauma unit or ICU and they will tell
you
that even the non believers start to pray.

Please. Do **** off.

Your answer to everything............

Well, if you write such nonsensical crap, what do you expect

--
geoff

"the_constructor" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:28:05 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:

Speak to any Doctor or Nurse in a Trauma unit or ICU and they will tell
you
that even the non believers start to pray.

Please. Do **** off.

Your answer to everything............

And Off is getting sick of getting ****ed.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 22:37:30 +0100, "the_constructor"
wrote:

Speak to any Doctor or Nurse in a Trauma unit or ICU and they will tell
you
that even the non believers start to pray.

Please. Do **** off.

Your answer to everything............

Well, I've been in Trauma units and ICUs and I certainly didn't pray
for anything, either as a patient or as a visitor.
I do recall wishing where was a God, so I could kick his ****ing arse.

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo ,
the_constructor escribió:

Infact everyone has faith in someone or being.

One can have faith in the human race,

That's asking for a lot of faith:-)


--
Adam

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo ,
the_constructor escribió:

Infact everyone has faith in someone or being.

One can have faith in the human race, which is more meaningful than
having faith promulgated by a vastly rich "Church" stuffed with kiddy-
fiddlers which controls gullible believers according to the dictates
of a 2,000 year old fairy story.

That goes for the Bible, the Koran, and for any organised "religion".


My bible is red, but if I buy the new one with ammendment number 1 it will
be green.

--
Adam

ARWadsworth wrote
Mike Tomlinson wrote
the_constructor wrote

Infact everyone has faith in someone or being.

One can have faith in the human race,

That's asking for a lot of faith:-)

Not if you have faith in them being completely ****ing
stupid most of the time and grovelling to some damned
god or other every chance most of them get when the
**** hits the fan.

Rod Speed wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote
Mike Tomlinson wrote
the_constructor wrote

Infact everyone has faith in someone or being.

One can have faith in the human race,

That's asking for a lot of faith:-)

Not if you have faith in them being completely ****ing
stupid most of the time


I edited your post.

--
Adam

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Mike Tomlinson wrote
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote

Oh, and the inherent decency of most people.

"Do as thou wilt be done by" is my credo, i.e. treat others as you
yourself would wish to be treated.

Even that can't really fly. I treat technoklutzes very differently
to how I want to be treated myself with complicated stuff.
If pushed, I would describe myself as a humanist (with a small h).

I'm not any sort of ist myself.



You believe in what you want and I will believe in what I want..... That is
called personal choice....!!
Jim G

the_constructor wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Mike Tomlinson wrote
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote
Oh, and the inherent decency of most people.
"Do as thou wilt be done by" is my credo, i.e. treat others as you
yourself would wish to be treated.
Even that can't really fly. I treat technoklutzes very differently
to how I want to be treated myself with complicated stuff.
If pushed, I would describe myself as a humanist (with a small h).
I'm not any sort of ist myself.



You believe in what you want and I will believe in what I want..... That is
called personal choice....!!
Jim G


And don't assume that because you cant get by without believing in
something, that's a necessary condition for life.




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.