Hi

Before I go mad I'd like some suggestions on how best to fix my weeping
shower couplings.

Some background: I'm in the process of completely re-fitting my
en-suite, and I'm installing a Grohe Rapido-T concealed shower mixer
(35500) which will feed a fixed rainshower head and a hand shower.
Before I board and tile out the wall I wanted to pressure test my
plumbing to make sure it is OK (no going back afterwards).

The problem is that, no matter how hard I tighten up the 1/2" to 15mm
coupler feeding the outlets one of them still weeps when I force the
outlet to be closed. I know in practice that the outlets will always be
open so there will be no pressure on this connection, but I don't think
that is the point (unless I am wrong?).

The weeping is coming from under the coupler where it touches the mixer
socket. The socket body of the mixer is so deep as to mean the bottom
face of the coupler doesn't come up against any face so I can't use a
fiber washer. I've tried plenty of ptfe to no avail.

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...eat=directlink

(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

--
for valid email reverse liamtoh

"Kevin Holohan" wrote in message
o.uk...


Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I would put a fibre/poly/rubber washer on the thread before screwing it in.
They have a parallel thread so aren't designed for PTFE tape seals.

dennis@home wrote:


"Kevin Holohan" wrote in message
o.uk...


Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I would put a fibre/poly/rubber washer on the thread before screwing it in.
They have a parallel thread so aren't designed for PTFE tape seals.

PTFE is designed for parallel threads, of course.
..


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Kevin Holohan" wrote in message
o.uk...


Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I would put a fibre/poly/rubber washer on the thread before screwing it
in.
They have a parallel thread so aren't designed for PTFE tape seals.

PTFE is designed for parallel threads, of course.

No it isn't.

On 29/04/2012 11:50, Kevin Holohan wrote:
Hi

Before I go mad I'd like some suggestions on how best to fix my weeping
shower couplings.

Some background: I'm in the process of completely re-fitting my
en-suite, and I'm installing a Grohe Rapido-T concealed shower mixer
(35500) which will feed a fixed rainshower head and a hand shower.
Before I board and tile out the wall I wanted to pressure test my
plumbing to make sure it is OK (no going back afterwards).

The problem is that, no matter how hard I tighten up the 1/2" to 15mm
coupler feeding the outlets one of them still weeps when I force the
outlet to be closed. I know in practice that the outlets will always be
open so there will be no pressure on this connection, but I don't think
that is the point (unless I am wrong?).

The weeping is coming from under the coupler where it touches the mixer
socket. The socket body of the mixer is so deep as to mean the bottom
face of the coupler doesn't come up against any face so I can't use a
fiber washer. I've tried plenty of ptfe to no avail.

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...eat=directlink


(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095


How about starting with a couple of these
http://www.screwfix.com/p/adjustable...pression/15531
and then using 15mm compression couplers to join up with the pipes?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 29/04/2012 14:57, dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Kevin Holohan" wrote in message
o.uk...


Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I would put a fibre/poly/rubber washer on the thread before screwing
it in.
They have a parallel thread so aren't designed for PTFE tape seals.

PTFE is designed for parallel threads, of course.

No it isn't.


PTFE works fine on parallel threads. It is very soft. Excess will
extrude if you put too much on.

"newshound" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 29/04/2012 14:57, dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Kevin Holohan" wrote in message
o.uk...


Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I would put a fibre/poly/rubber washer on the thread before screwing
it in.
They have a parallel thread so aren't designed for PTFE tape seals.

PTFE is designed for parallel threads, of course.

No it isn't.


PTFE works fine on parallel threads. It is very soft. Excess will extrude
if you put too much on.

parallel treads are not designed to seal at all.
The fittings with parallel threads always have a shoulder which is where the
seal is supposed to be made.
Look at any parallel thread fitting like a tap connector.
PTFE tape is designed to seal taper threads and is a replacement for boss
white and string.
If you put enough packing in you *may* get a seal but it is not guaranteed
and it will probably leak later.

On 29/04/2012 11:50, Kevin Holohan wrote:
Hi

Before I go mad I'd like some suggestions on how best to fix my weeping
shower couplings.

Some background: I'm in the process of completely re-fitting my
en-suite, and I'm installing a Grohe Rapido-T concealed shower mixer
(35500) which will feed a fixed rainshower head and a hand shower.
Before I board and tile out the wall I wanted to pressure test my
plumbing to make sure it is OK (no going back afterwards).

The problem is that, no matter how hard I tighten up the 1/2" to 15mm
coupler feeding the outlets one of them still weeps when I force the
outlet to be closed. I know in practice that the outlets will always be
open so there will be no pressure on this connection, but I don't think
that is the point (unless I am wrong?).

The weeping is coming from under the coupler where it touches the mixer
socket. The socket body of the mixer is so deep as to mean the bottom
face of the coupler doesn't come up against any face so I can't use a
fiber washer. I've tried plenty of ptfe to no avail.

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...eat=directlink


(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095


To be honest I'm not keen on using PTFE tape for compression fittings.
PTFE creeps so the force holding the olive in place will relax over time.

I would follow dennis's idea of using a fibre washer which partly
expands when wet. I would also prefer to have a watertight seal as
there will be some partial pressure when in use. I also see no reason
why PTFE tape couldn't be used as an alternative.

Roger's suggestion would also work.

What do the instructions say?

On 29/04/2012 15:28, Fredxx wrote:
On 29/04/2012 11:50, Kevin Holohan wrote:
Hi

Before I go mad I'd like some suggestions on how best to fix my weeping
shower couplings.

Some background: I'm in the process of completely re-fitting my
en-suite, and I'm installing a Grohe Rapido-T concealed shower mixer
(35500) which will feed a fixed rainshower head and a hand shower.
Before I board and tile out the wall I wanted to pressure test my
plumbing to make sure it is OK (no going back afterwards).

The problem is that, no matter how hard I tighten up the 1/2" to 15mm
coupler feeding the outlets one of them still weeps when I force the
outlet to be closed. I know in practice that the outlets will always be
open so there will be no pressure on this connection, but I don't think
that is the point (unless I am wrong?).

The weeping is coming from under the coupler where it touches the mixer
socket. The socket body of the mixer is so deep as to mean the bottom
face of the coupler doesn't come up against any face so I can't use a
fiber washer. I've tried plenty of ptfe to no avail.

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...eat=directlink



(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095


To be honest I'm not keen on using PTFE tape for compression fittings.
PTFE creeps so the force holding the olive in place will relax over time.

I would follow dennis's idea of using a fibre washer which partly
expands when wet. I would also prefer to have a watertight seal as there
will be some partial pressure when in use. I also see no reason why PTFE
tape couldn't be used as an alternative.

Roger's suggestion would also work.

What do the instructions say?

Sadly the instructions say nothing for how to connect to the outlets (or
inlets).

I might phone Grohe in the morning and see what they say.

--
for valid email reverse liamtoh

On 29/04/2012 11:50, Kevin Holohan wrote:

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...eat=directlink


(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I assume its this one:

http://cdn08.grohe.com/lib/1/tpi/1375383.pdf

It looks like the main difficulty you will have is getting a parallel
threaded coupler to seal in a parallel socket. Usually these will have a
fibre or rubber O ring at that makes the final seal between the two flat
surfaces (the top of the socket, and the flange on the coupling) when
done up tight. If you have a rubber O ring hat came on the sealing plug,
then use that round the coupler.

You can get a seal on parallel threads with PTFE, but it takes a
surprisingly large amount of it.

Alternatively, use a taper fitting such as:

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/140.asp#6685

That will get a proper seal on the threads with PTFE (or Fernox LS-X)




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/04/2012 02:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/04/2012 11:50, Kevin Holohan wrote:

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...eat=directlink



(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I assume its this one:

http://cdn08.grohe.com/lib/1/tpi/1375383.pdf

It looks like the main difficulty you will have is getting a parallel
threaded coupler to seal in a parallel socket. Usually these will have a
fibre or rubber O ring at that makes the final seal between the two flat
surfaces (the top of the socket, and the flange on the coupling) when
done up tight. If you have a rubber O ring hat came on the sealing plug,
then use that round the coupler.

You can get a seal on parallel threads with PTFE, but it takes a
surprisingly large amount of it.

Alternatively, use a taper fitting such as:

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/140.asp#6685

That will get a proper seal on the threads with PTFE (or Fernox LS-X)




I spoke to Grohe technical. They say I'm the first person to report this
issue and to just use more tape.

I'll get some taper fittings just in case. Should I be using tape with
that type of fitting (or non at all, or say the Fernox)?

--
for valid email reverse liamtoh

On 30/04/2012 21:03, Kevin Holohan wrote:
On 30/04/2012 02:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/04/2012 11:50, Kevin Holohan wrote:

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...eat=directlink




(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I assume its this one:

http://cdn08.grohe.com/lib/1/tpi/1375383.pdf

It looks like the main difficulty you will have is getting a parallel
threaded coupler to seal in a parallel socket. Usually these will have a
fibre or rubber O ring at that makes the final seal between the two flat
surfaces (the top of the socket, and the flange on the coupling) when
done up tight. If you have a rubber O ring hat came on the sealing plug,
then use that round the coupler.

You can get a seal on parallel threads with PTFE, but it takes a
surprisingly large amount of it.

Alternatively, use a taper fitting such as:

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/140.asp#6685

That will get a proper seal on the threads with PTFE (or Fernox LS-X)




I spoke to Grohe technical. They say I'm the first person to report this
issue and to just use more tape.

I'll get some taper fittings just in case. Should I be using tape with
that type of fitting (or non at all, or say the Fernox)?

Yes you must use a sealing compound or tape with a taper fitting.

What I can't quite follow is why you can't take the rubber o ring off
the blanking plug from your second photo, and stick that on the BSP
threaded end of your coupler? That would then give you a proper seal.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/04/2012 21:30, John Rumm wrote:
On 30/04/2012 21:03, Kevin Holohan wrote:
On 30/04/2012 02:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/04/2012 11:50, Kevin Holohan wrote:

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I
can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...eat=directlink





(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I assume its this one:

http://cdn08.grohe.com/lib/1/tpi/1375383.pdf

It looks like the main difficulty you will have is getting a parallel
threaded coupler to seal in a parallel socket. Usually these will have a
fibre or rubber O ring at that makes the final seal between the two flat
surfaces (the top of the socket, and the flange on the coupling) when
done up tight. If you have a rubber O ring hat came on the sealing plug,
then use that round the coupler.

You can get a seal on parallel threads with PTFE, but it takes a
surprisingly large amount of it.

Alternatively, use a taper fitting such as:

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/140.asp#6685

That will get a proper seal on the threads with PTFE (or Fernox LS-X)




I spoke to Grohe technical. They say I'm the first person to report this
issue and to just use more tape.

I'll get some taper fittings just in case. Should I be using tape with
that type of fitting (or non at all, or say the Fernox)?

Yes you must use a sealing compound or tape with a taper fitting.

What I can't quite follow is why you can't take the rubber o ring off
the blanking plug from your second photo, and stick that on the BSP
threaded end of your coupler? That would then give you a proper seal.


Thanks. I'll go with the rubber o ring first but I want a backup if that
fails...


--
for valid email reverse liamtoh

In article , Kevin
Holohan scribeth thus
On 30/04/2012 02:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/04/2012 11:50, Kevin Holohan wrote:

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...r=0&feat=direc
tlink



(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I assume its this one:

http://cdn08.grohe.com/lib/1/tpi/1375383.pdf

It looks like the main difficulty you will have is getting a parallel
threaded coupler to seal in a parallel socket. Usually these will have a
fibre or rubber O ring at that makes the final seal between the two flat
surfaces (the top of the socket, and the flange on the coupling) when
done up tight. If you have a rubber O ring hat came on the sealing plug,
then use that round the coupler.

You can get a seal on parallel threads with PTFE, but it takes a
surprisingly large amount of it.

Alternatively, use a taper fitting such as:

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/140.asp#6685

That will get a proper seal on the threads with PTFE (or Fernox LS-X)




I spoke to Grohe technical. They say I'm the first person to report this
issue and to just use more tape.

Thats the stage when my bull**** indicator would start clanging
loudly!...

So your the only one eh?, doubt it somehow..


I'll get some taper fittings just in case. Should I be using tape with
that type of fitting (or non at all, or say the Fernox)?


--
Tony Sayer

On 01/05/2012 09:01, tony sayer wrote:
In articleipadnXFskIKMbQPSnZ2dnUVZ8gWdnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk, Kevin
scribeth thus
On 30/04/2012 02:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/04/2012 11:50, Kevin Holohan wrote:

One thing grohe have used is a rubber ring on the sealing plug which I
have removed to fit the coupler. Is this the way to go? If it is I can't
see anything suitable in either the screwfix or toolstation catalogues.

Any other pointers before I pay somebody with more experience than I to
fix my problem?

Shower photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/kev.hol...r=0&feat=direc
tlink



(http://bit.ly/IdKQvz if the above wrap is broken)

Coupling I'm using:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/male-coupl...equestid=86095

I assume its this one:

http://cdn08.grohe.com/lib/1/tpi/1375383.pdf

It looks like the main difficulty you will have is getting a parallel
threaded coupler to seal in a parallel socket. Usually these will have a
fibre or rubber O ring at that makes the final seal between the two flat
surfaces (the top of the socket, and the flange on the coupling) when
done up tight. If you have a rubber O ring hat came on the sealing plug,
then use that round the coupler.

You can get a seal on parallel threads with PTFE, but it takes a
surprisingly large amount of it.

Alternatively, use a taper fitting such as:

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/140.asp#6685

That will get a proper seal on the threads with PTFE (or Fernox LS-X)




I spoke to Grohe technical. They say I'm the first person to report this
issue and to just use more tape.

Thats the stage when my bull**** indicator would start clanging
loudly!...

So your the only one eh?, doubt it somehow..


Just shows how popular their product is!!

HERE IS THE CORRECT PART. I bought the same shower fitting and read this thread. A little light rummaging on ebay however I came across DOWTY seals, from the hydraulic world. Cheap as chips and actually meant to do this job. They are a rubber insert inside a washer. You just tighten them up with moderate force, and they never leak. PERFECT. I paid £2.59 for 10 1/2 BSP DOWTY seals, also known as bonded washers, delivered to my door. Hope this helps, and the shower mixer itself is utterly fabulous.

wrote:
HERE IS THE CORRECT PART. I bought the same shower fitting and read
this thread. A little light rummaging on ebay however I came across
DOWTY seals, from the hydraulic world. Cheap as chips and actually
meant to do this job. They are a rubber insert inside a washer. You
just tighten them up with moderate force, and they never leak.
PERFECT. I paid £2.59 for 10 1/2 BSP DOWTY seals, also known as
bonded washers, delivered to my door. Hope this helps, and the shower
mixer itself is utterly fabulous.

That's great, except no **** knows what you are talking about as you are
replying to something that was probably posted 20 years ago and it
disappeared from the group 19 years and 8 months ago

Phil L wrote:

wrote:

HERE IS THE CORRECT PART. DOWTY seals

you are replying to something that was probably posted 20 years ago
Only 5 years in this case

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=149581396500

Which one of the team was it? Prace bets now!

http://pinesoft.co.uk/team

On 26/05/17 16:52, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
HERE IS THE CORRECT PART. I bought the same shower fitting and read
this thread. A little light rummaging on ebay however I came across
DOWTY seals, from the hydraulic world. Cheap as chips and actually
meant to do this job. They are a rubber insert inside a washer. You
just tighten them up with moderate force, and they never leak.
PERFECT. I paid �2.59 for 10 1/2 BSP DOWTY seals, also known as
bonded washers, delivered to my door. Hope this helps, and the shower
mixer itself is utterly fabulous.

That's great, except no **** knows what you are talking about as you are
replying to something that was probably posted 20 years ago and it
disappeared from the group 19 years and 8 months ago


Yeah. Google groups that one


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 26/05/17 16:56, Andy Burns wrote:
Phil L wrote:

wrote:

HERE IS THE CORRECT PART. DOWTY seals

you are replying to something that was probably posted 20 years ago
Only 5 years in this case

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=149581396500

Which one of the team was it? Prace bets now!

http://pinesoft.co.uk/team

I fell about laughing

http://www.pinesoft.co.uk/about/

Warning: Illegal string offset 'align' in
/home/pinesoftco/public_html/wordpress/wp-content/themes/pinesoft/functions.php
on line 20

This is from a company whose stated expertise includes web design.

I am not sure but the chairman might be the first bloke that ever
shagged my sister.


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 5/26/2017 3:46 PM, wrote:
HERE IS THE CORRECT PART. I bought the same shower fitting and read this thread. A little light rummaging on ebay however I came across DOWTY seals, from the hydraulic world. Cheap as chips and actually meant to do this job. They are a rubber insert inside a washer. You just tighten them up with moderate force, and they never leak. PERFECT. I paid £2.59 for 10 1/2 BSP DOWTY seals, also known as bonded washers, delivered to my door. Hope this helps, and the shower mixer itself is utterly fabulous.

Dowty seals are brilliant, we used them all the time in my days in a
research lab.

On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 4:51:07 PM UTC+1, Phil L wrote:

That's great, except no **** knows what you are talking about as you are
replying to something that was probably posted 20 years ago and it
disappeared from the group 19 years and 8 months ago

Dear Phil.
The point is that the Internet knows. It never forgets in fact. I found this thread when I was looking for a solution to this problem - others will too. So whilst this is no use whatsoever to the bloke who originally posted the question, unless he has the worlds most patient wife, it is of use to others.
Thanks for the spot on the formatting php error on the pinesoft about page - and good luck to the bloke who has just found out that Roger is his sisters ex.
Anyways - Dowty seals are fine things - spend a few bob on them and feel confident when you fit a shower (whether Grohe or not) inside a wall, and remember - this is on the internet - it's there forever. If you want a private chat, there are plenty of engines, but this is public and perpetual.

Huge wrote:

On 2017-10-05, wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 4:51:07 PM UTC+1, Phil L wrote:

That's great, except no **** knows what you are talking about as you are
replying to something that was probably posted 20 years ago and it
disappeared from the group 19 years and 8 months ago

Dear Phil.
The point is that the Internet knows.

Usenet != Internet. And usenet *doesn't* know, because articles age out and
are deleted.

And possibly saved by Google but made unsearchable or lost fairly soon.






--

Roger Hayter