hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
dennis@home wrote
Jethro wrote

My brother started off once, while I was still putting my seatbelt
on. He'd got to about 10mph, and had to really slam the anchors on for some reason. Because I was looking down,
and unprepared I went straight into the screen, and had a wonderful duck egg for weeks. I was amazed at how much
force was involved. If it had happened at 30, I'm sure I would have gone through the screen.

Just think what would happen if the air bag went off, you would be
dead now. Air bags make it safer *if* you are seated correctly and
kill you if you are leaning down.

Air bags were first tried out as an alternative to seat belts - and
were abandoned as dangerous to the point of being lethal. However
later it was realised that they did work well in conjunction with seat belts. So the worst thing you can do is ride
in a car with airbags without wearing the seat belt. You're a statistic waiting to happen.

Not really. Modern air bags do work a lot better than
nothing most of the time even if you dont wear a seatbelt.

Either way you're probably dead in a shunt of any significance.

Nope, they are pretty good at reducing the death rate.

Rod Speed wrote:
hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
dennis@home wrote
Jethro wrote

My brother started off once, while I was still putting my seatbelt
on. He'd got to about 10mph, and had to really slam the anchors on for some reason. Because I was looking down,
and unprepared I went straight into the screen, and had a wonderful duck egg for weeks. I was amazed at how much
force was involved. If it had happened at 30, I'm sure I would have gone through the screen.

Just think what would happen if the air bag went off, you would be
dead now. Air bags make it safer *if* you are seated correctly and
kill you if you are leaning down.

Air bags were first tried out as an alternative to seat belts - and
were abandoned as dangerous to the point of being lethal. However
later it was realised that they did work well in conjunction with seat belts. So the worst thing you can do is ride
in a car with airbags without wearing the seat belt. You're a statistic waiting to happen.

Not really. Modern air bags do work a lot better than
nothing most of the time even if you dont wear a seatbelt.

Either way you're probably dead in a shunt of any significance.

Nope, they are pretty good at reducing the death rate.


Yes. The function of car safety measures like that is to spread the
overall deceleration over enough area and time to reduce the general G
loading below lethal, which is about 150-300g.

Or if possible, below 50g, which is walk away bruised territory.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In message , Rod Speed
writes
hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
dennis@home wrote
Jethro wrote

My brother started off once, while I was still putting my seatbelt
on. He'd got to about 10mph, and had to really slam the anchors
on for some reason. Because I was looking down,
and unprepared I went straight into the screen, and had a
wonderful duck egg for weeks. I was amazed at how much
force was involved. If it had happened at 30, I'm sure I would
have gone through the screen.

Just think what would happen if the air bag went off, you would be
dead now. Air bags make it safer *if* you are seated correctly and
kill you if you are leaning down.

Air bags were first tried out as an alternative to seat belts - and
were abandoned as dangerous to the point of being lethal. However
later it was realised that they did work well in conjunction with
seat belts. So the worst thing you can do is ride
in a car with airbags without wearing the seat belt. You're a
statistic waiting to happen.

Not really. Modern air bags do work a lot better than
nothing most of the time even if you dont wear a seatbelt.

Either way you're probably dead in a shunt of any significance.

Nope, they are pretty good at reducing the death rate.


Not when used on their own. That is why they were abandoned in the late
60s.
--
hugh

hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
dennis@home wrote
Jethro wrote

My brother started off once, while I was still putting my
seatbelt on. He'd got to about 10mph, and had to really slam
the anchors on for some reason. Because I was looking down,
and unprepared I went straight into the screen, and had a
wonderful duck egg for weeks. I was amazed at how much
force was involved. If it had happened at 30, I'm sure I would
have gone through the screen.

Just think what would happen if the air bag went off, you would be dead now. Air bags make it safer *if* you are
seated correctly and kill you if you are leaning down.

Air bags were first tried out as an alternative to seat belts -
and were abandoned as dangerous to the point of being lethal.
However later it was realised that they did work well in
conjunction with seat belts. So the worst thing you can do is ride
in a car with airbags without wearing the seat belt. You're a
statistic waiting to happen.

Not really. Modern air bags do work a lot better than
nothing most of the time even if you dont wear a seatbelt.

Either way you're probably dead in a shunt of any significance.

Nope, they are pretty good at reducing the death rate.

Not when used on their own.

Yep, even then.

That is why they were abandoned in the late 60s.

Nope, they werent abandoned at all, they are there in all new cars, and
still reduce the death rate even when the individual isnt wearing a seat belt.

In message , Rod Speed
writes
hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
dennis@home wrote
Jethro wrote

My brother started off once, while I was still putting my
seatbelt on. He'd got to about 10mph, and had to really slam
the anchors on for some reason. Because I was looking down,
and unprepared I went straight into the screen, and had a
wonderful duck egg for weeks. I was amazed at how much
force was involved. If it had happened at 30, I'm sure I would
have gone through the screen.

Just think what would happen if the air bag went off, you would
be dead now. Air bags make it safer *if* you are
seated correctly and kill you if you are leaning down.

Air bags were first tried out as an alternative to seat belts -
and were abandoned as dangerous to the point of being lethal.
However later it was realised that they did work well in
conjunction with seat belts. So the worst thing you can do is ride
in a car with airbags without wearing the seat belt. You're a
statistic waiting to happen.

Not really. Modern air bags do work a lot better than
nothing most of the time even if you dont wear a seatbelt.

Either way you're probably dead in a shunt of any significance.

Nope, they are pretty good at reducing the death rate.

Not when used on their own.

Yep, even then.

That is why they were abandoned in the late 60s.

Nope, they werent abandoned at all, they are there in all new cars, and
still reduce the death rate even when the individual isnt wearing a seat belt.


Nope they were abandoned, seat belts were mad compulsary and much much
later air bags were reintroduced as they were very effective when used
in conjunction with a seat belt
I know cos I was there
End Of.
--
hugh

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...

Nope they were abandoned, seat belts were mad compulsary and much much
later air bags were reintroduced as they were very effective when used in
conjunction with a seat belt
I know cos I was there
End Of.

You don't need seat belts for airbags to work.
Look at side impact bags, the seat belt does sod all but the air bag still
helps you to survive.
What seat belts do is keep you out of the danger area when the bag goes off.

Of course cost was a big reason why they weren't popular in the '60s.
They were expensive and they didn't have microcontrollers to make them
reliable.

dennis@home wrote:


"hugh" ] wrote in message
...

Nope they were abandoned, seat belts were mad compulsary and much much
later air bags were reintroduced as they were very effective when used
in conjunction with a seat belt
I know cos I was there
End Of.

You don't need seat belts for airbags to work.
Look at side impact bags, the seat belt does sod all but the air bag
still helps you to survive.
What seat belts do is keep you out of the danger area when the bag goes
off.

Of course cost was a big reason why they weren't popular in the '60s.
They were expensive and they didn't have microcontrollers to make them
reliable.

Indeed. airbags are a lessgood alternative to properly designed cars and
proper seat belts, which is why no racing teams use them at all - its
been shwon that proper side impacts test front impact tests, crumple
zones and a full racing harness and a roll cage is how you get the BEST
chance of survival.

Nevertheless they are better than nothing if someone smacks into
something with a sloppily tightened lap and diagonal, or no belts at all.

It took me just one crash right in front of my eyes at a club motor race
to decide that on balance, I would never ever drive without a seat belt
again.

Mini 70mph head on into a concrete wall with just two rows of tyres in
between.

I thought the driver was dead, but after a couple of seconds he smashed
the door open, got out and hit the car in frustration - and walked
away..just as the marshals arrived.

OTOH I saw someone killed in front of me when he was thrown out of a
vintage racing car with no belts at all - and run over by the driver
following.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
Rod Speed wrote
hugh wrote
dennis@home wrote
Jethro wrote

My brother started off once, while I was still putting my
seatbelt on. He'd got to about 10mph, and had to really slam
the anchors on for some reason. Because I was looking down,
and unprepared I went straight into the screen, and had a
wonderful duck egg for weeks. I was amazed at how much
force was involved. If it had happened at 30, I'm sure I would
have gone through the screen.

Just think what would happen if the air bag went off, you would be dead now. Air bags make it safer *if* you
are
seated correctly and kill you if you are leaning down.

Air bags were first tried out as an alternative to seat belts -
and were abandoned as dangerous to the point of being lethal. However later it was realised that they did work
well in
conjunction with seat belts. So the worst thing you can do is
ride in a car with airbags without wearing the seat belt.
You're a statistic waiting to happen.

Not really. Modern air bags do work a lot better than
nothing most of the time even if you dont wear a seatbelt.

Either way you're probably dead in a shunt of any significance.

Nope, they are pretty good at reducing the death rate.

Not when used on their own.

Yep, even then.

That is why they were abandoned in the late 60s.

Nope, they werent abandoned at all, they are there in all new cars, and still reduce the death rate even when the
individual isnt wearing a seat belt.

Nope they were abandoned,

Nope, they never were.

seat belts were mad compulsary

In plenty of places they werent.

and much much later air bags were reintroduced as they were very effective when used in conjunction with a seat belt

And they were made compulsory in many jurisdications with new cars,
even when seat belts were not compulsory, and they still reduce the
death rate even when the individual isnt wearing a seat belt.

I know cos I was there

So was I, for even longer than you were, most likely.

End Of.

Fraid not.

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:48:40 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Mini 70mph head on into a concrete wall with just two rows of tyres in
between.

I thought the driver was dead, but after a couple of seconds he smashed
the door open, got out and hit the car in frustration - and walked
away..just as the marshals arrived.

Yep, I've hit a small tree (6" max trunk dia) not very fast maybe 20
to 30mph I felt the engine thump against the bulkhead. Worst bit was
scrabbling on the floor looking for my glasses that had carried on as
the belt held me. I've also rolled from 50 to 60 mph after a glancing
blow to a drystone wall, worst bit(*) forgetting that when hanging
upside down that you *will* land on your head, in broken glass, when
you release the seatbelt.

I don't think many people realise how much even a low speed impact
*will* hurt. There ought to more of the ramps with a rolling seat
attached. You sit in the seat and roll down the ramp to sudden stop,
hitting it at just a few mph, gives most people quite a shock. Or
make it part of the driving test.

(*) Well after the thought "Oh no this is going to hurt" as I felt
the rotation start.

--
Cheers
Dave.

The Natural Philosopher wrote
dennis@home wrote
hugh ] wrote

Nope they were abandoned, seat belts were mad compulsary and much
much later air bags were reintroduced as they were very effective
when used in conjunction with a seat belt
I know cos I was there
End Of.

You don't need seat belts for airbags to work.
Look at side impact bags, the seat belt does sod all but the air bag
still helps you to survive.
What seat belts do is keep you out of the danger area when the bag
goes off.

Of course cost was a big reason why they weren't popular in the '60s.
They were expensive and they didn't have microcontrollers to make
them reliable.

Indeed. airbags are a lessgood alternative to properly designed cars and proper seat belts, which is why no racing
teams use them at all - its been shwon that proper side impacts test front impact tests, crumple zones and a full
racing harness and a roll cage is how you get the BEST chance of survival.

In fact adding air bags to that gives you even BETTER chance of survival.

Nevertheless they are better than nothing if someone smacks into
something with a sloppily tightened lap and diagonal, or no belts at all.

And much better than just those things you listed alone in those circumstances.

It took me just one crash right in front of my eyes at a club motor race to decide that on balance, I would never ever
drive without a seat belt again.

Mini 70mph head on into a concrete wall with just two rows of tyres in between.

I thought the driver was dead, but after a couple of seconds he smashed the door open, got out and hit the car in
frustration - and walked away..just as the marshals arrived.

OTOH I saw someone killed in front of me when he was thrown out of a
vintage racing car with no belts at all - and run over by the driver following.