A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

On Nov 21, 12:59 pm, "brass monkey" wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message

...



A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

That can be echieved by breaking a string while not wearing safety
goggles.

In article ,
Matty F writes:
When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Well, Bach wrote the 48 preludes and fugues to celebrate the
arrival of equal temperament, which made all the major and minor
keys usable. Prior to that, many of the major and minor keys were
pretty unusable because it was not possible to tune an instrument
to sound in-tune for all keys. (OTOH, a few keys could sound
more in-tune than with equal temperament.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article
,
Matty F wrote:
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

[Snip]

Why so expensive? A harp tuning key - basically the same - is under £20.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

surely it was Bach who propounded "equal temperament" and Mozart came later?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

On Nov 20, 11:55*pm, Matty F wrote:
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.


I think that unless you can get hold of some alloy steel you will only
make an inferior tool.
Have you thought about an old brake adjusment tool?

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:55:19 -0800 (PST), Matty F
wrote:

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

I'd probably file it, going all the way through, then harden.

Industrially, the way to do it is called "broaching"... not useful to you, I'd
think, but have a look anyway.

Thomas Prufer

On Nov 21, 8:22 pm, Thomas Prufer prufer.pub...@mnet-
online.de.invalid wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:55:19 -0800 (PST), Matty F
wrote:

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

I'd probably file it, going all the way through, then harden.

There's about 20mm between the pegs on my piano. So I could use say
15mm steel rod. A 5mm square hole in that is surely unlikely to
expand.
I do have drills that can drill into hardened steel. I don't know if I
can forge hardened steel after drilling. I guess I'll find out!


Industrially, the way to do it is called "broaching"... not useful to you, I'd
think, but have a look anyway.

Interesting thanks.

Seems a bit expensive, I'd have though if you could come up with something
that works well and is not too hard to make you could undercut the
competition and make some money.
As for the methodology of tuning pianos, well I am no musitian, but I saw a
person trying to do it once with electronic gizmos and the result was not
pleasing to the ear, sounded very kind of dull afterwards, so maybe its the
slight errors that make pianos have character.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Matty F" wrote in message
...
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

That is utter rubbish.
In fact there are now a diminishing number of blind piano tuners as
witnessed by the RNIB not running the course some years any more.
No I cannot tune anything but I know what sounds nice and what does not..
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"brass monkey" wrote in message
b.com...

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

In article 4472df52-1978-461e-a65a-be5975fe8092
@q27g2000prh.googlegroups.com, says...

A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

http://www.drill-service.co.uk/Produ...40000&Tool=347

On 20/11/2011 23:59, brass monkey wrote:
"Matty wrote in message
...
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano


Maybe it's sufficient just to use a blind tapered square hole in the
tuning lever? g
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article
,
Matty F wrote:
I have tuned my violins and viola for over fifty years so I should be
able to tune a piano.

String players always tune their own instrument. Same as some other ones
too. But I can't say I've ever seen a pianist who tunes his instrument.
It's a lot more difficult when there is more than one string per note.

--
*i souport publik edekashun.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/11/2011 23:55, Matty F wrote:
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

A lot of automotive tools have tapered square holes - like drain plug
removers and brake adjusters. Have you thought of trying to adapt one of
those - maybe grinding off the unwanted bits to avoid fouling the
adjacent pins?

Just a thought . . . maybe tuning levers *need* to be softer than the
pins so that it's the lever which wears (and can be replaced) and not
the pins. Once you've rounded a pin, you're stuffed!

In the past, I've had a go at re-tuning one or two duff notes on a piano
(not the whole thing!) and it's *not* that easy. Watching piano tuners
at work, there's definitely a black art in knowing by how much to
over-tighten and then back off - so as to have the hysteresis in the
right direction so that the tuning stays put. Unlike a violin etc.,
you've also got 2 or 3 strings per note, which all have to be in unison.

As I'm sure you know, if you tune it diatonically sp?, it will sound
good in certain keys - and crap in others - so you'll be limited to
playing music in the rights key(s) - unless you re-tune it for every
piece - and even then, you're stuffed if the piece contains key changes!

[I doubt whether any trained piano tuner would be capable of tuning it
the way you want, because they rely on beats between the harmonics
(which you won't have) to know when it's 'right'.]
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 21/11/2011 06:53, harry wrote:
On Nov 20, 11:55 pm, Matty wrote:
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.


I think that unless you can get hold of some alloy steel you will only
make an inferior tool.
Have you thought about an old brake adjusment tool?

You could use Silver Steel which ISTR comes in the soft, drillable
condition, then harden and temper. You won't want it to be too hard.

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

Might it be easier to buy a relatively cheap tuning lever and then "beef it
up" to your requirements to give you the feel that you want? (Assuming that
the socket itself is made of decent hardened steel).

Tim

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

What is wrong with this?
http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/03...html?kbid=1582
Only £20.

Baz

On 20/11/2011 23:55, Matty F wrote:
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.
I made one from an old Skoda engine, or more specifically a cylinder
head bolt and a push rod.

I softened the bolt by heating and gentle cooling, cut a length and
drilled a transverse hole to take the cut off push rod for the handle.
This was inserted when the bolt was hot and became a tight fit as it
cooled (luck?).

To make the square end, I drilled a hole in the end of the bolt and I
using heat and a hammer, and a piano peg as a former, forged the end of
the bolt to shape.

Finally re-heat treated with a quench to harden the steel. The resultant
tuning 'hammer' worked well.

Having said that, I have just found one for £47 -
http://www.thomann.de/gb/km_167_stimmhammergarnitur.htm or
http://shew.org/s/pianohammer/

Pete

In article , Roger Mills wrote:
On 20/11/2011 23:59, brass monkey wrote:
"Matty wrote in message
...

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_We...ntended_tuning


Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

Maybe it's sufficient just to use a blind tapered square hole in the
tuning lever? g

Spark eroder, and you can do that in hardened steel.
Go on, you know you want one :-)

On 20/11/2011 23:55, Matty F wrote:
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one.

snip


Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel?

Buy a square hole surrounded by a steel clock key? Adding the necessary
leverage shouldn't be too difficult.


--
Kevin Poole

In message , Kevin
writes
On 20/11/2011 23:55, Matty F wrote:
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

I wish to make one.

snip


Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel?

Buy a square hole surrounded by a steel clock key? Adding the
necessary leverage shouldn't be too difficult.

Er.. Matty likes to begin by making the charcoal to reduce the iron ore
but if you are going to take short cuts .... ISTR miniature socket sets
use 1/4" drives so by using a hexagonal (Allen key driver) in a
conveniently sized hexagon socket you can arrive at a square socket
tool.

regards



--
Tim Lamb

Brian Gaff wrote:
That is utter rubbish.
In fact there are now a diminishing number of blind piano tuners as
witnessed by the RNIB not running the course some years any more.
No I cannot tune anything but I know what sounds nice and what does
not.. Brian

Well he was not being serious Brian.


You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

--
Adam

* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a
carrot *

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:29:52 -0000, "Baz"
wrote:


What is wrong with this?
http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/03...html?kbid=1582
Only £20.

I think that the OPs objection is that he says that the commercial
ones twist and flex - though I own one similar to that illustration,
Baz, and I've never had any difficulties using it. IANAPianotuner by
the way and I very rarely get to use mine.

To the OP: have you thought about trading your piano in for a
clavichord? Or since this is a DIY group, building one from plans or
from a kit? You should be able to play it in many more natural scales
than a retuned piano once you've mastered the technique of varying the
pitch of each note through your contact with the keys.

Nick

On Nov 22, 1:09 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

If you're
playing music which predates equal temperament, it will tend to modulate
into sets of keys which could be tuned reasonably closely and avoid keys
which were out of tune. In that case, you can tune a piano for a specific
piece of music. That's sometimes done with something like a Steinway
concert grand, as it needs tuning each time it's moved anyway (someones
twice), and may be playing only the same piece of music between each
move.

That suits me. I can only play Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, and
Moonlight Sonata anyway.

On Nov 22, 11:35 pm, Nick Odell
wrote:

To the OP: have you thought about trading your piano in for a
clavichord? Or since this is a DIY group, building one from plans or
from a kit? You should be able to play it in many more natural scales
than a retuned piano once you've mastered the technique of varying the
pitch of each note through your contact with the keys.

Can I get a clavichord for a dollar?
I do also want to build something that is a cross between an autoharp
and an electric guitar.

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Brian Gaff wrote:
That is utter rubbish.
In fact there are now a diminishing number of blind piano tuners as
witnessed by the RNIB not running the course some years any more.
No I cannot tune anything but I know what sounds nice and what does
not.. Brian

Well he was not being serious Brian.


You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

--
Adam

* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a
carrot *

What can I say? I included a wink, right

brass monkey wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Brian Gaff wrote:
That is utter rubbish.
In fact there are now a diminishing number of blind piano tuners as
witnessed by the RNIB not running the course some years any more.
No I cannot tune anything but I know what sounds nice and what does
not.. Brian

Well he was not being serious Brian.


You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

--
Adam

* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a
carrot *

What can I say? I included a wink, right

He must not have heard it.

I'll get my coat...

--
Adam

* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a
carrot *

In message
,
Matty F writes
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

Mine cost £30 and works fine



I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

Normally, the tuning pins are tapered, I don't think that the tuning
tool is

The tuning pins are not identical and the tool finds its own level to
make good contact. You might find that tapered hole over tapered pin
might tend to stick


The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

But are you going to slightly offtune the strings to give a richness of
tone?

You never tune all three strings to exactly the same pitch as it creates
a very dead sound. Are you aware that you should slightly overtune as
the pitch drops a bit when the pressure is released?


What key are you going to tune to?

You'll only be able to play in that and the 5th above and below without
it sounding awful




Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

--
geoff

On Nov 23, 10:15 am, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
brass monkey wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Brian Gaff wrote:
That is utter rubbish.
In fact there are now a diminishing number of blind piano tuners as
witnessed by the RNIB not running the course some years any more.
No I cannot tune anything but I know what sounds nice and what does
not.. Brian

Well he was not being serious Brian.

You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

--
Adam

* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a
carrot *

What can I say? I included a wink, right

He must not have heard it.

I'll get my coat...

Perhaps Brian does not have a "Victor Borge" type audible punctuation
enabled.
I've heard that being blind can make the other senses more sensitive,
so maybe having a blind piano tuner would make sense. Just as long as
he doesn't try to tune my old telephone exchange or the Cockcroft-
Walton nuclear accelerator by mistake, especially when they are both
running.

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
Seems a bit expensive, I'd have though if you could come up with something
that works well and is not too hard to make you could undercut the
competition and make some money.
As for the methodology of tuning pianos, well I am no musitian, but I saw a
person trying to do it once with electronic gizmos and the result was not
pleasing to the ear, sounded very kind of dull afterwards, so maybe its the
slight errors that make pianos have character.

Rather, not tuning all three strings to exactly the same pitch adds the
warmth and colour that a clinically tuned piano would lack


--
geoff

In message
,
Matty F writes
On Nov 22, 1:09 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

If you're
playing music which predates equal temperament, it will tend to modulate
into sets of keys which could be tuned reasonably closely and avoid keys
which were out of tune. In that case, you can tune a piano for a specific
piece of music. That's sometimes done with something like a Steinway
concert grand, as it needs tuning each time it's moved anyway (someones
twice), and may be playing only the same piece of music between each
move.

That suits me. I can only play Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, and
Moonlight Sonata anyway.

I presume that you mean the first movement which is in C# (minor), the
third movement's a bit of a bugger to play and I would hazard a guess,
well beyond your abilities

Jesu, joy of mans desiring is normally played in G, which is a long way
away (in terms of 5ths) from C# - it will sound ****ing awful

Are you beginning to understand why we use the even tempered scale
nowadays?


--
geoff

In article ,
geoff wrote:
Rather, not tuning all three strings to exactly the same pitch adds the
warmth and colour that a clinically tuned piano would lack

Even if you tuned them identially, very soon after they would drift
slightly and 'beat' - giving that honky tonk sound. I dunno how far apart
they are tuned in practice. IIRC, you go for one bang on, one slightly
sharp and one slightly flat. Hence the use of the rubber to deaden two of
the strings while tuning the third.

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message
,
Matty F writes
On Nov 22, 11:35 pm, Nick Odell
wrote:

To the OP: have you thought about trading your piano in for a
clavichord? Or since this is a DIY group, building one from plans or
from a kit? You should be able to play it in many more natural scales
than a retuned piano once you've mastered the technique of varying the
pitch of each note through your contact with the keys.

Can I get a clavichord for a dollar?
I do also want to build something that is a cross between an autoharp
and an electric guitar.

While you've posted some interesting projects here in the past, I think
that you've lost it on this one, your thinking is just wrong on almost
everything you've said

I've tuned a few pianos - not well, but I have some experience. I also
have a friend who is a blind piano tuner to fall back on

tuning handles are cheap, they don't flex, you will find tuning to
absolute pitch (especially if you tune all the strings to the same
pitch) dead and lacking character

Tuning handles are the shape they are because it prevents them
"grabbing" if the fit is exact

It will keep you off the streets if you have too much time on your
hands, otherwise ...

move on


--
geoff

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Nov 23, 10:15 am, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
brass monkey wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Brian Gaff wrote:
That is utter rubbish.
In fact there are now a diminishing number of blind piano tuners as
witnessed by the RNIB not running the course some years any more.
No I cannot tune anything but I know what sounds nice and what does
not.. Brian

Well he was not being serious Brian.

You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

--
Adam

* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a
carrot *

What can I say? I included a wink, right

He must not have heard it.

I'll get my coat...

Perhaps Brian does not have a "Victor Borge" type audible punctuation
enabled.
I've heard that being blind can make the other senses more sensitive,
so maybe having a blind piano tuner would make sense. Just as long as
he doesn't try to tune my old telephone exchange or the Cockcroft-
Walton nuclear accelerator by mistake, especially when they are both
running.

That's if he can find them ------- smiley.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message
, Matty
F writes
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

Mine cost £30 and works fine



I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

Normally, the tuning pins are tapered, I don't think that the tuning tool
is

The tuning pins are not identical and the tool finds its own level to make
good contact. You might find that tapered hole over tapered pin might tend
to stick


The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

But are you going to slightly offtune the strings to give a richness of
tone?

You never tune all three strings to exactly the same pitch as it creates a
very dead sound. Are you aware that you should slightly overtune as the
pitch drops a bit when the pressure is released?


What key are you going to tune to?

You'll only be able to play in that and the 5th above and below without it
sounding awful




Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

You sound very knowledgable in this field, Geoff. Do you play?

On Nov 23, 12:41 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

On Nov 22, 1:09 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

If you're
playing music which predates equal temperament, it will tend to modulate
into sets of keys which could be tuned reasonably closely and avoid keys
which were out of tune. In that case, you can tune a piano for a specific
piece of music. That's sometimes done with something like a Steinway
concert grand, as it needs tuning each time it's moved anyway (someones
twice), and may be playing only the same piece of music between each
move.

That suits me. I can only play Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, and
Moonlight Sonata anyway.

I presume that you mean the first movement which is in C# (minor), the
third movement's a bit of a bugger to play and I would hazard a guess,
well beyond your abilities

Jesu, joy of mans desiring is normally played in G, which is a long way
away (in terms of 5ths) from C# - it will sound ****ing awful

Are you beginning to understand why we use the even tempered scale
nowadays?

But I am able and qualified to transpose all music into one key. If I
use the key of C, that will save me having to tune the black keys!

The immediate problem is how two people can get the piano up my
outside steps. I'm currently considering making a crane.
I need to get the piano of my trailer so I can put boats on that next
week. And while the piano is in the garage it's probably getting even
more out of tune! And someone might steal my car which is currently
outside the garage.

On Nov 23, 12:44 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
geoff wrote:

Rather, not tuning all three strings to exactly the same pitch adds the
warmth and colour that a clinically tuned piano would lack

Even if you tuned them identially, very soon after they would drift
slightly and 'beat' - giving that honky tonk sound. I dunno how far apart
they are tuned in practice. IIRC, you go for one bang on, one slightly
sharp and one slightly flat. Hence the use of the rubber to deaden two of
the strings while tuning the third.

What about the lower notes that have only one or two strings? How do I
get warmth and colour in those?

In message om, brass
monkey writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message
, Matty
F writes
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

Mine cost £30 and works fine



I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

Normally, the tuning pins are tapered, I don't think that the tuning tool
is

The tuning pins are not identical and the tool finds its own level to make
good contact. You might find that tapered hole over tapered pin might tend
to stick


The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

But are you going to slightly offtune the strings to give a richness of
tone?

You never tune all three strings to exactly the same pitch as it creates a
very dead sound. Are you aware that you should slightly overtune as the
pitch drops a bit when the pressure is released?


What key are you going to tune to?

You'll only be able to play in that and the 5th above and below without it
sounding awful




Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

You sound very knowledgable in this field, Geoff. Do you play?


Piano? Yes ... but I never practice nowadays. I'm a long way off being
anywhere near as good as I should be



When it comes to tuning, I (as I said elsewhere) have a friend who is a
piano tuner and he has shown me how he tunes pianos, a sort of years
experience condensed into minutes, but all good stuff.





--
geoff

In message
,
Matty F writes
On Nov 23, 12:44 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
geoff wrote:

Rather, not tuning all three strings to exactly the same pitch adds the
warmth and colour that a clinically tuned piano would lack

Even if you tuned them identially, very soon after they would drift
slightly and 'beat' - giving that honky tonk sound. I dunno how far apart
they are tuned in practice. IIRC, you go for one bang on, one slightly
sharp and one slightly flat. Hence the use of the rubber to deaden two of
the strings while tuning the third.

What about the lower notes that have only one or two strings? How do I
get warmth and colour in those?

Well, you don't do you?

But its not so important down at those frequencies, the notes are not so
bright anyway (they're spirally wound to give them extra mass). Most of
the music you play on a piano is in the middle four octaves.

--
geoff

In message
,
Matty F writes
On Nov 23, 12:41 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

On Nov 22, 1:09 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

If you're
playing music which predates equal temperament, it will tend to modulate
into sets of keys which could be tuned reasonably closely and avoid keys
which were out of tune. In that case, you can tune a piano for a specific
piece of music. That's sometimes done with something like a Steinway
concert grand, as it needs tuning each time it's moved anyway (someones
twice), and may be playing only the same piece of music between each
move.

That suits me. I can only play Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, and
Moonlight Sonata anyway.

I presume that you mean the first movement which is in C# (minor), the
third movement's a bit of a bugger to play and I would hazard a guess,
well beyond your abilities

Jesu, joy of mans desiring is normally played in G, which is a long way
away (in terms of 5ths) from C# - it will sound ****ing awful

Are you beginning to understand why we use the even tempered scale
nowadays?

But I am able and qualified to transpose all music into one key. If I
use the key of C, that will save me having to tune the black keys!

Racist !

I would like to see you transposing the moonlight sonata (1st movement)
down a semitone, it really won't fall under the fingers very well



The immediate problem is how two people can get the piano up my
outside steps. I'm currently considering making a crane.
I need to get the piano of my trailer so I can put boats on that next
week. And while the piano is in the garage it's probably getting even
more out of tune! And someone might steal my car which is currently
outside the garage.

Then you will need to tune it, let it relax for a few months and then
tune it again


--
geoff