"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message om, brass
monkey writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message
,
Matty
F writes
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

Mine cost £30 and works fine



I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

Normally, the tuning pins are tapered, I don't think that the tuning
tool
is

The tuning pins are not identical and the tool finds its own level to
make
good contact. You might find that tapered hole over tapered pin might
tend
to stick


The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

But are you going to slightly offtune the strings to give a richness of
tone?

You never tune all three strings to exactly the same pitch as it creates
a
very dead sound. Are you aware that you should slightly overtune as the
pitch drops a bit when the pressure is released?


What key are you going to tune to?

You'll only be able to play in that and the 5th above and below without
it
sounding awful




Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

You sound very knowledgable in this field, Geoff. Do you play?


Piano? Yes ... but I never practice nowadays. I'm a long way off being
anywhere near as good as I should be


I used to play when I was a kid (9), kinda pushed into it by my parents.
I bought a Yamaha HS-8 many years back and produced these -
http://www.cutlerr.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vidor.mp3
http://www.cutlerr.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/disney.mp3
http://www.cutlerr.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mack_mabel.mp3
T'were the best I could do (~10 years back). I'm amazed by these
professionals.
Tim Flint for example, terrific, see him if you can.

When it comes to tuning, I (as I said elsewhere) have a friend who is a
piano tuner and he has shown me how he tunes pianos, a sort of years
experience condensed into minutes, but all good stuff.

"brass monkey" wrote in message
eb.com...

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message om, brass
monkey writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message
,
Matty
F writes
A piano tuning lever is basically like a small socket spanner with a
big lever on it. They can cost up to US$700, and the cheap ones are
useless.

Mine cost £30 and works fine



I wish to make one. It will be much stronger than the commercial ones
so it won't twist and flex like they do. It will have a square hole so
it doesn't slip or damage the pins.

Normally, the tuning pins are tapered, I don't think that the tuning
tool
is

The tuning pins are not identical and the tool finds its own level to
make
good contact. You might find that tapered hole over tapered pin might
tend
to stick


The hard part is to make a square hole. I think I will make a tapered
steel pin, drill a round hole in a steel rod and put it in the forge
until it's red hot and hammer it around the pin.
Attaching a handle will be easy. Or I may as well bend the rod in the
forge too.

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

But are you going to slightly offtune the strings to give a richness of
tone?

You never tune all three strings to exactly the same pitch as it
creates a
very dead sound. Are you aware that you should slightly overtune as the
pitch drops a bit when the pressure is released?


What key are you going to tune to?

You'll only be able to play in that and the 5th above and below without
it
sounding awful




Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel? I
have access to a milling machine, drill press, lathe, welder and
forge, and lots of files.

You sound very knowledgable in this field, Geoff. Do you play?


Piano? Yes ... but I never practice nowadays. I'm a long way off being
anywhere near as good as I should be


I used to play when I was a kid (9), kinda pushed into it by my parents.
I bought a Yamaha HS-8 many years back and produced these -
http://www.cutlerr.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vidor.mp3
http://www.cutlerr.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/disney.mp3
http://www.cutlerr.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mack_mabel.mp3
T'were the best I could do (~10 years back). I'm amazed by these
professionals.
Tim Flint for example, terrific, see him if you can.

e.g, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jiCwQWs7Vs

When it comes to tuning, I (as I said elsewhere) have a friend who is a
piano tuner and he has shown me how he tunes pianos, a sort of years
experience condensed into minutes, but all good stuff.

Couple of points about tuning, regarding some things said in this thread.

* Tuning lever sockets are usually eight-pointed star sockets, not square. You need to be able to choose the best angle for the tool on the pin to have the fine control tuning requires.

* All the strings in a single note, the unisons, must be tuned identically. The "dead" sound is a different problem: it comes from not tuning the different octaves with the proper stretch due to inharmonicity. Using an electronic keyboard, for example, to tune every note will give a dead sound on an acoustic piano.

* Professional tuning levers start at about $125. (Cheaper ones will work OK for a while but may not hold up or give the best results for someone who knows how to use it. Super cheap $25 ones are crap that won't work for anybody.) There certainly are $700 tuning levers, though, which some pro tuners swear by, but certainly not all.

For the details on piano tuning, see http://piano.detwiler.us

On Nov 23, 2:21 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

The immediate problem is how two people can get the piano up my
outside steps. I'm currently considering making a crane.
I need to get the piano of my trailer so I can put boats on that next
week. And while the piano is in the garage it's probably getting even
more out of tune! And someone might steal my car which is currently
outside the garage.

Then you will need to tune it, let it relax for a few months and then
tune it again

I have solved the problem of getting it up the steps.
Since I intend to fully recondition the piano, I've taken it apart.
It's now light enough for two people to carry.
I shall make a non-tapered spanner in the forge or maybe with a file.
I can't bring myself to pay more than 30 times as much for a spanner
as the piano cost.

If you want to be horrified I did investigate making an auto-tuning
piano. That's done either by having 300 stepper motors or a heater on
each string.

In article
31729406.328.1322025248056.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20,
Leon Franks wrote:
Couple of points about tuning, regarding some things said in this thread.

* Tuning lever sockets are usually eight-pointed star sockets, not
square. You need to be able to choose the best angle for the tool on the
pin to have the fine control tuning requires.

The piano in this house has square, tapered, pegs.

* All the strings in a single note, the unisons, must be tuned
identically. The "dead" sound is a different problem: it comes from not
tuning the different octaves with the proper stretch due to
inharmonicity. Using an electronic keyboard, for example, to tune every
note will give a dead sound on an acoustic piano.

* Professional tuning levers start at about $125. (Cheaper ones will work
OK for a while but may not hold up or give the best results for someone
who knows how to use it.

"Best results"? The tuning key either turns the peg, or it doesn't. I
agree, though, that a poorly made key could damage the pegs or if it sticks
on cause the string to detune when removed.


Super cheap $25 ones are crap that won't work for anybody.) There
certainly are $700 tuning levers, though, which some pro tuners swear by,
but certainly not all.

For the details on piano tuning, see http://piano.detwiler.us

Note that the author says He says he is not a professional tuner

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

On Nov 23, 6:14 pm, Leon Franks wrote:
Couple of points about tuning, regarding some things said in this thread.

* Tuning lever sockets are usually eight-pointed star sockets, not square.. You need to be able to choose the best angle for the tool on the pin to have the fine control tuning requires.

I don't believe it is necessary to have eight-pointed star sockets. I
think it's better and does less damage to the pins to use a square
socket. Which I will make. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I will find that
out.

* All the strings in a single note, the unisons, must be tuned identically.

I agree and that is what I will do.

The "dead" sound is a different problem: it comes from not tuning the different octaves with the proper stretch due to inharmonicity. Using an electronic keyboard, for example, to tune every note will give a dead sound on an acoustic piano.

I don't think I want to "stretch". When I play octaves I want them to
be in tune.

* Professional tuning levers start at about $125. (Cheaper ones will work OK for a while but may not hold up or give the best results for someone who knows how to use it. Super cheap $25 ones are crap that won't work for anybody.) There certainly are $700 tuning levers, though, which some pro tuners swear by, but certainly not all.

For the details on piano tuning, seehttp://piano.detwiler.us

Where it says "Interestingly, composers of the classical period
composed for pianos that were not tuned to equal temperament but to
one of several other temperaments popular in their time." And that is
what I want to do. I have heard recordings of pianos tuned that way
and that is what I want.

Matty F writes:
You realise that you need to be blind to tune a piano

I've heard that being blind can make the other senses more sensitive,

Not really. The other senses remain just as sensitive (or not)
as in a sighted person, but a blind person pays more attention
and allocates more brain area to them.

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2010-09-14)

On Nov 22, 11:21*pm, geoff wrote:

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Bach invented equal temperement so he would have wanted it tuned that
way.

Robert

On Nov 22, 11:41*pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

On Nov 22, 1:09 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

*If you're
playing music which predates equal temperament, it will tend to modulate
into sets of keys which could be tuned reasonably closely and avoid keys
which were out of tune. In that case, you can tune a piano for a specific
piece of music. That's sometimes done with something like a Steinway
concert grand, as it needs tuning each time it's moved anyway (someones
twice), and may be playing only the same piece of music between each
move.

That suits me. I can only play Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, and
Moonlight Sonata anyway.

I presume that you mean the first movement which is in C# (minor), the
third movement's a bit of a bugger to play and I would hazard a guess,
well beyond your abilities

Jesu, joy of mans desiring is normally played in G, which is a long way
away (in terms of 5ths) from C# - it will sound ****ing awful


Well, I would suggest, milud, that G major is harmonically quite close
to C# minor (= A major) so it would not sound too bad.

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Seems a bit expensive, I'd have though if you could come up with something
that works well and is not too hard to make you could undercut the
competition and make some money.
As for the methodology of tuning pianos, well I am no musitian, but I saw
a person trying to do it once with electronic gizmos and the result was
not pleasing to the ear, sounded very kind of dull afterwards, so maybe
its the slight errors that make pianos have character.

Brian

The January 1979 issue of "Scientific American" contains an article on piano
tuning which I think says basically says the same thing. Not sure if you
would be able to find it on-line though.

Paul DS.

In message
,
Matty F writes
On Nov 23, 2:21 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

The immediate problem is how two people can get the piano up my
outside steps. I'm currently considering making a crane.
I need to get the piano of my trailer so I can put boats on that next
week. And while the piano is in the garage it's probably getting even
more out of tune! And someone might steal my car which is currently
outside the garage.

Then you will need to tune it, let it relax for a few months and then
tune it again

I have solved the problem of getting it up the steps.
Since I intend to fully recondition the piano, I've taken it apart.
It's now light enough for two people to carry.
I shall make a non-tapered spanner in the forge or maybe with a file.
I can't bring myself to pay more than 30 times as much for a spanner
as the piano cost.

If you want to be horrified I did investigate making an auto-tuning
piano. That's done either by having 300 stepper motors

You do realise how much force these strings are under



or a heater on
each string.

So you did consider even tempered tuning then



--
geoff

In message
,
RobertL writes
On Nov 22, 11:21*pm, geoff wrote:

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Bach invented equal temperement so he would have wanted it tuned that
way.

No, I didn't say that, it was the OP

--
geoff

On Nov 24, 1:47 am, RobertL wrote:
On Nov 22, 11:21 pm, geoff wrote:

When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Bach invented equal temperement so he would have wanted it tuned that
way.

No he did not. See this:
http://yuvalnov.org/temperament/

In contrary to the commonly held belief, this method [equal
temperament] was not the one for which Bach composed his The Well-
Tempered Clavier.

On Nov 24, 8:22 am, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

If you want to be horrified I did investigate making an auto-tuning
piano. That's done either by having 300 stepper motors

You do realise how much force these strings are under

Yes, I'd need a little gearbox for each motor. A bit too expensive for
me.

or a heater on
each string.

So you did consider even tempered tuning then

No, I would have a row of buttons to select the key, and the strings
would be tuned perfectly to Pythagorean intervals for that key.

Matty F wrote:
No, I would have a row of buttons to select the key, and the strings
would be tuned perfectly to Pythagorean intervals for that key.

And you'd get complaints from most modern listeners, who are used to
equal tempered tuning, and the correct tuning now sounds "off" to their
ears.

Just saying, like...

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article ,
Matty F writes:

The immediate problem is how two people can get the piano up my
outside steps. I'm currently considering making a crane.

Do make sure someone has a video camera rolling...

I need to get the piano of my trailer so I can put boats on that next
week. And while the piano is in the garage it's probably getting even
more out of tune! And someone might steal my car which is currently
outside the garage.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:41:55 -0800 (PST), Matty F
wrote:

On Nov 22, 11:35 pm, Nick Odell
wrote:

To the OP: have you thought about trading your piano in for a
clavichord? Or since this is a DIY group, building one from plans or
from a kit? You should be able to play it in many more natural scales
than a retuned piano once you've mastered the technique of varying the
pitch of each note through your contact with the keys.

Can I get a clavichord for a dollar?
Sounds like a d-i-y challenge!

I do also want to build something that is a cross between an autoharp
and an electric guitar.

Something like this perhaps?
http://www.minermusic.com/images/inst,xmas/wxmas.jpg

Nick

Matty F writes:

On Nov 24, 8:22 am, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

If you want to be horrified I did investigate making an auto-tuning
piano. That's done either by having 300 stepper motors

You do realise how much force these strings are under

Yes, I'd need a little gearbox for each motor. A bit too expensive for
me.

You wouldnt need to do the whole thing with gearboxes. Just
have the motors drive the far end of longish levers, the other
ends of which press against the non-playing part of the strings
(or, if you dont mind modifying the piano further, have the
levers move the anchor point of the strings).

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2010-09-14)

In message
,
Matty F writes
On Nov 24, 8:22 am, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

If you want to be horrified I did investigate making an auto-tuning
piano. That's done either by having 300 stepper motors

You do realise how much force these strings are under

Yes, I'd need a little gearbox for each motor. A bit too expensive for
me.

I have actually thought of a novel way of tuning, although for a guitar,
as your average piano normally remains in tune for months (usually from
central heating switch on to switch off.

More then "a bit too expensive for me" it falls in the category of "have
you nothing better to do with your life?"



or a heater on
each string.

So you did consider even tempered tuning then

No, I would have a row of buttons to select the key, and the strings
would be tuned perfectly to Pythagorean intervals for that key.

Look - I come up with a perfectly witty remark and you completely miss
it



--
geoff

In message
,
RobertL writes
On Nov 22, 11:41*pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

On Nov 22, 1:09 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

*If you're
playing music which predates equal temperament, it will tend to modulate
into sets of keys which could be tuned reasonably closely and avoid keys
which were out of tune. In that case, you can tune a piano for a specific
piece of music. That's sometimes done with something like a Steinway
concert grand, as it needs tuning each time it's moved anyway (someones
twice), and may be playing only the same piece of music between each
move.

That suits me. I can only play Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, and
Moonlight Sonata anyway.

I presume that you mean the first movement which is in C# (minor), the
third movement's a bit of a bugger to play and I would hazard a guess,
well beyond your abilities

Jesu, joy of mans desiring is normally played in G, which is a long way
away (in terms of 5ths) from C# - it will sound ****ing awful


Well, I would suggest, milud, that G major is harmonically quite close
to C# minor (= A major) so it would not sound too bad.


Err ... sorry, but the relative major to C# minor is E which is three
"5ths" away from G, not pleasant for anyone who is not tone deaf


--
geoff

In message
31729406.328.1322025248056.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20, Leon
Franks writes
Couple of points about tuning, regarding some things said in this thread.

* Tuning lever sockets are usually eight-pointed star sockets, not
square. You need to be able to choose the best angle for the tool on
the pin to have the fine control tuning requires.

* All the strings in a single note, the unisons, must be tuned
identically.

Sorry, that's just not true and a really good tuner will tune the slight
difference differently depending on the intended use of the piano



The "dead" sound is a different problem: it comes from not tuning the
different octaves with the proper stretch due to inharmonicity. Using
an electronic keyboard, for example, to tune every note will give a
dead sound on an acoustic piano.



* Professional tuning levers start at about $125. (Cheaper ones will
work OK for a while but may not hold up or give the best results for
someone who knows how to use it. Super cheap $25 ones are crap that
won't work for anybody.) There certainly are $700 tuning levers,
though, which some pro tuners swear by, but certainly not all.

For the details on piano tuning, see http://piano.detwiler.us

Sorry, not a site I would trust

Apart from the fact that I don't think I'd use an electronic tuner, it
makes the basic mistake of wanting to tune to concert pitch. A lot of
old pianos have "sagged", and, unless there is a requirement to tune to
concert (which can cause a significant increase in overall tension on
the frame,), tuners will usually tune to the average tune of the
instrument. My piano is, for example just under a quarter of a tone
down, I've thought about bringing it up to pitch, but it would take
about a year to settle down. There are other points to consider, such as
strings breaking after 100 years of being laid back










--
geoff

In message , charles
writes
In article
31729406.328.1322025248056.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqzz20,
Leon Franks wrote:
Couple of points about tuning, regarding some things said in this thread.

* Tuning lever sockets are usually eight-pointed star sockets, not
square. You need to be able to choose the best angle for the tool on the
pin to have the fine control tuning requires.

The piano in this house has square, tapered, pegs.

* All the strings in a single note, the unisons, must be tuned
identically. The "dead" sound is a different problem: it comes from not
tuning the different octaves with the proper stretch due to
inharmonicity. Using an electronic keyboard, for example, to tune every
note will give a dead sound on an acoustic piano.

* Professional tuning levers start at about $125. (Cheaper ones will work
OK for a while but may not hold up or give the best results for someone
who knows how to use it.

"Best results"? The tuning key either turns the peg, or it doesn't. I
agree, though, that a poorly made key could damage the pegs or if it sticks
on cause the string to detune when removed.


Super cheap $25 ones are crap that won't work for anybody.) There
certainly are $700 tuning levers, though, which some pro tuners swear by,
but certainly not all.

For the details on piano tuning, see http://piano.detwiler.us

Note that the author says He says he is not a professional tuner


I didn't actually get that far, I could tell without having seen that


--
geoff

On Nov 25, 10:39 am, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

On Nov 24, 8:22 am, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

If you want to be horrified I did investigate making an auto-tuning
piano. That's done either by having 300 stepper motors

You do realise how much force these strings are under

Yes, I'd need a little gearbox for each motor. A bit too expensive for
me.

I have actually thought of a novel way of tuning, although for a guitar,
as your average piano normally remains in tune for months (usually from
central heating switch on to switch off.

More then "a bit too expensive for me" it falls in the category of "have
you nothing better to do with your life?"

When I've finished a project I like to move on to another different
one. I like to challenge the orthodox ways that things are done.
I often meet people who have all the qualifications and experience of
an expert, but lack knowledge of physics or maths and sometimes I can
do better than them. I'm talking of piano tuners here.
"Reasonable men adjust themselves to their environment. Unreasonable
men attempt to change their environment to suit themselves. Therefore,
all progress is the work of unreasonable men"

or a heater on
each string.

So you did consider even tempered tuning then

No, I would have a row of buttons to select the key, and the strings
would be tuned perfectly to Pythagorean intervals for that key.

Look - I come up with a perfectly witty remark and you completely miss
it

Now that you point it out, yes it was witty.

This is the way I intend tuning my piano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNY7Eyntlt0

In message
,
Matty F writes
More then "a bit too expensive for me" it falls in the category of "have
you nothing better to do with your life?"

When I've finished a project I like to move on to another different
one. I like to challenge the orthodox ways that things are done.
I often meet people who have all the qualifications and experience of
an expert, but lack knowledge of physics or maths and sometimes I can
do better than them. I'm talking of piano tuners here.

Well, as someone with a degree in physics, a reasonably good musical
ear, a pet piano tuner, and a piano, ...

a) my tuning handle, which cost several tens of pounds, is good enough
for the likes of you or I

b) retuning to true pitch will require constant attention for top side
of a yeat until it settles down

c) a 5th away from your key will sound OK, two 5ths will sound
marginally iffy, three 5ths will sound noticeably uncomfortable

d) there's a lot more involved than you have thought of

e) good luck, if you need further assistance, my email is valid


--
geoff

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 23:07:40 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message
,
Matty F writes
More then "a bit too expensive for me" it falls in the category of "have
you nothing better to do with your life?"

When I've finished a project I like to move on to another different
one. I like to challenge the orthodox ways that things are done.
I often meet people who have all the qualifications and experience of
an expert, but lack knowledge of physics or maths and sometimes I can
do better than them. I'm talking of piano tuners here.

Well, as someone with a degree in physics, a reasonably good musical
ear, a pet piano tuner, and a piano, ...

a) my tuning handle, which cost several tens of pounds, is good enough
for the likes of you or I

pedant

of you or me

/pedant 8-)

--
Frank Erskine

On Nov 25, 12:07 pm, geoff wrote:

c) a 5th away from your key will sound OK, two 5ths will sound
marginally iffy, three 5ths will sound noticeably uncomfortable

You didn't look at that video. I concede that I will not be making the
5ths perfect. But it won't be equal temperament.

Trevor Stephenson demonstrates how to tune 18th-century Well
Temperament:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNY7Eyntlt0

In article ,
geoff wrote:

Sorry, not a site I would trust

Apart from the fact that I don't think I'd use an electronic tuner, it
makes the basic mistake of wanting to tune to concert pitch.

The tuner, I have one for my harp, can be adjusted to give a different
reference frequency for A. All the other notes then follow. So if you want
A=400Hz instead of 440Hz, you can have it.


A lot of old pianos have "sagged", and, unless there is a requirement to
tune to concert (which can cause a significant increase in overall
tension on the frame,), tuners will usually tune to the average tune of
the instrument. My piano is, for example just under a quarter of a tone
down,

That's fine if you are playing on your own, unhelpful if someoen else is
playing, or singing, withn you



I've thought about bringing it up to pitch, but it would take
about a year to settle down. There are other points to consider, such as
strings breaking after 100 years of being laid back

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

In message , charles
writes
In article ,
geoff wrote:

Sorry, not a site I would trust

Apart from the fact that I don't think I'd use an electronic tuner, it
makes the basic mistake of wanting to tune to concert pitch.

The tuner, I have one for my harp, can be adjusted to give a different
reference frequency for A. All the other notes then follow. So if you want
A=400Hz instead of 440Hz, you can have it.


A lot of old pianos have "sagged", and, unless there is a requirement to
tune to concert (which can cause a significant increase in overall
tension on the frame,), tuners will usually tune to the average tune of
the instrument. My piano is, for example just under a quarter of a tone
down,

That's fine if you are playing on your own, unhelpful if someoen else is
playing, or singing, withn you

Singing?

You are joking aren't you

Stringed instruments (guitars, violins etc) are a damn sight easier to
tune than pianos, most other instruments also have a small degree of
tunability

Helpful or unhelpful, the fact remains that most household pianos will
be tuned the average, NOT to concert pitch. Don't argue, because its
true

Lets face it, nobody here is going to be tuning a concert grand for Ling
Ling












I've thought about bringing it up to pitch, but it would take
about a year to settle down. There are other points to consider, such as
strings breaking after 100 years of being laid back


--
geoff

On Nov 24, 10:36 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
Matty F writes:



The immediate problem is how two people can get the piano up my
outside steps. I'm currently considering making a crane.

Do make sure someone has a video camera rolling...

OK, problem solved. I didn't need a crane. Since I intend to
recondition the piano completely, I simply unscrewed about 50 wood
screws and removed everything but the strings and outside casing.
That made it light enough for two people to carry up two flights of
stteps. I attached two pieces of wood to make it easy to hold.
Here's the piano ready to carry.
http://i39.tinypic.com/v3h8o7.jpg

The piano is now inside my house ready to refurbish and put back
together. And tune, when I have made my tuning spanner!

In message , Frank Erskine
writes
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 23:07:40 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message
,
Matty F writes
More then "a bit too expensive for me" it falls in the category of "have
you nothing better to do with your life?"

When I've finished a project I like to move on to another different
one. I like to challenge the orthodox ways that things are done.
I often meet people who have all the qualifications and experience of
an expert, but lack knowledge of physics or maths and sometimes I can
do better than them. I'm talking of piano tuners here.

Well, as someone with a degree in physics, a reasonably good musical
ear, a pet piano tuner, and a piano, ...

a) my tuning handle, which cost several tens of pounds, is good enough
for the likes of you or I

pedant

of you or me

/pedant 8-)

I knew that


--
geoff

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:59:10 -0800 (PST), Matty F
wrote:

On Nov 24, 10:36 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
Matty F writes:



The immediate problem is how two people can get the piano up my
outside steps. I'm currently considering making a crane.

Do make sure someone has a video camera rolling...

OK, problem solved. I didn't need a crane. Since I intend to
recondition the piano completely, I simply unscrewed about 50 wood
screws

Yonks ago I stripped down a Waddington pianoforte belonging to my
granny and recovered hundreds (or so it seemed) of sort of button-head
iron screws about 3/4" x 8, I still have quite a few in my bitsa box.
I can't remember what I did with the rest of the instrument.

I do remember that there were four fluted brown glass castor-cups to
stop the carpet being crushed too much.

and removed everything but the strings and outside casing.
That made it light enough for two people to carry up two flights of
stteps. I attached two pieces of wood to make it easy to hold.
Here's the piano ready to carry.
http://i39.tinypic.com/v3h8o7.jpg

McAfee reports that as a dodgy URL!

--
Frank Erskine

On Nov 26, 1:25 pm, Frank Erskine
wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:59:10 -0800 (PST), Matty F

Here's the piano ready to carry.
http://i39.tinypic.com/v3h8o7.jpg

McAfee reports that as a dodgy URL!

McAfee must be wrong. Millions of people use tinypic

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/tinypic.com/summary/

tinypic.com

We tested this site and didn't find any significant problems.

On Nov 26, 2:19 pm, Matty F wrote:
On Nov 26, 1:25 pm, Frank Erskine
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:59:10 -0800 (PST), Matty F
Here's the piano ready to carry.
http://i39.tinypic.com/v3h8o7.jpg

McAfee reports that as a dodgy URL!

McAfee must be wrong. Millions of people use tinypic

On the other hand, in the newsgroups Google intercepts the link. Maybe
Google has a problem.

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/tinypic.com/summary/

tinypic.com

We tested this site and didn't find any significant problems.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:55:19 -0800 (PST), Matty F
wrote:


When I tune my piano I won't be using this "equal temperament" rubbish
or any electronic devices! I want to tune it the way Mozart or Bach
would have wanted.

Yes, but which one? Bach or Mozart? Bach kept his favourite organs (no
smutty interruptions here, please) tuned to A=480 whereas the
keyboards that Mozart was working with later that century were
generally tuned anywhere between A=400 and A=450.

Nick

In article ,
Frank Erskine writes:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:59:10 -0800 (PST), Matty F
wrote:

On Nov 24, 10:36 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
Matty F writes:



The immediate problem is how two people can get the piano up my
outside steps. I'm currently considering making a crane.

Do make sure someone has a video camera rolling...

OK, problem solved. I didn't need a crane. Since I intend to
recondition the piano completely, I simply unscrewed about 50 wood
screws

Yonks ago I stripped down a Waddington pianoforte belonging to my
granny and recovered hundreds (or so it seemed) of sort of button-head
iron screws about 3/4" x 8, I still have quite a few in my bitsa box.
I can't remember what I did with the rest of the instrument.

I stripped a piano down at school, which had spent a few months
being drenched everytime it rained during the summer holidays,
before anyone noticed it was written off. I took all the lead
weights out of the keys, and used them in the Meccano clock kit
I was building (which I still have).

I do remember that there were four fluted brown glass castor-cups to
stop the carpet being crushed too much.

I think my parents' piano is standing on those, and I remember
lots of them under furniture in my grandparents house.

and removed everything but the strings and outside casing.

A bit late now, but should have warned you there's about 40
tonnes force across a piano frame, generated by the strings.
If it breaks, it can explode causing bad injuries. Some years
ago when piano smashing contests were popular, occasionally
the strings weren't slackened off first, and injuries resulted.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:34:52 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Frank Erskine writes:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:59:10 -0800 (PST), Matty F
wrote:

On Nov 24, 10:36 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
Matty F writes:



The immediate problem is how two people can get the piano up my
outside steps. I'm currently considering making a crane.

Do make sure someone has a video camera rolling...

OK, problem solved. I didn't need a crane. Since I intend to
recondition the piano completely, I simply unscrewed about 50 wood
screws

Yonks ago I stripped down a Waddington pianoforte belonging to my
granny and recovered hundreds (or so it seemed) of sort of button-head
iron screws about 3/4" x 8, I still have quite a few in my bitsa box.
I can't remember what I did with the rest of the instrument.

I stripped a piano down at school, which had spent a few months
being drenched everytime it rained during the summer holidays,
before anyone noticed it was written off. I took all the lead
weights out of the keys, and used them in the Meccano clock kit
I was building (which I still have).

I do remember that there were four fluted brown glass castor-cups to
stop the carpet being crushed too much.

I think my parents' piano is standing on those, and I remember
lots of them under furniture in my grandparents house.

and removed everything but the strings and outside casing.

A bit late now, but should have warned you there's about 40
tonnes force across a piano frame, generated by the strings.
If it breaks,

....Just a _bit_ late - this was about 50 years ago!
Actually I did slacken off all the strings...


--
Frank Erskine

On Nov 21, 12:55 pm, Matty F wrote:

Any better suggestions for making a tapered square hole in steel?

I've managed to make a square hole in mild steel simply by heating it
up red hot and driving a hardened steel spike into the end.

Here's the steel being heated in the forge, and the hole:
http://i39.tinypic.com/5md8k3.jpg

The hole ended up a bit big so it has been heated again and the sides
squashed in. I'll file it square later.

Here is the hole being made, and the tools to make the hole - a small
round one to start with and the larger square one that I made to match
the piano pins:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2i3eo1.jpg

On Nov 27, 9:05 pm, Matty F wrote:

Here's the steel being heated in the forge, and the hole:http://i39.tinypic.com/5md8k3.jpg

Here's the finished tuning lever, on top of the piano that I bought
for $1:
http://i42.tinypic.com/1znpn5x.jpg

On 29/11/2011 05:39, Matty F wrote:
On Nov 27, 9:05 pm, Matty wrote:

Here's the steel being heated in the forge, and the hole:http://i39.tinypic.com/5md8k3.jpg

Here's the finished tuning lever, on top of the piano that I bought
for $1:
http://i42.tinypic.com/1znpn5x.jpg

Great! You are a true craftsman when it comes to making things like that.

However, I'm not too optimistic about its prospects for making the piano
do exactly what you want to achieve!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In message
,
Matty F writes
On Nov 27, 9:05 pm, Matty F wrote:

Here's the steel being heated in the forge, and the
hole:http://i39.tinypic.com/5md8k3.jpg

Here's the finished tuning lever, on top of the piano that I bought
for $1:
http://i42.tinypic.com/1znpn5x.jpg

A Viagra piano !



--
geoff