A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

There is no wall underneath it.
How to strengthen it?
I was thinking of replacing the floorboard with a length of steel,
maybe an L shape with notches where the rafters are?
Screwing it down with coachbolts?
Its a flying freehold, underneath is a friendly neighbour,
with a posh ceiling.

[g]

On 05/10/2011 18:37, george [dicegeorge] wrote:
A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

There is no wall underneath it.
How to strengthen it?
I was thinking of replacing the floorboard with a length of steel,
maybe an L shape with notches where the rafters are?
Screwing it down with coachbolts?
Its a flying freehold, underneath is a friendly neighbour,
with a posh ceiling.

I take it its been that way for some time? If so, it suggests that its
not going anywhere in a hurry. It looks rather like most of those floor
joists are pretty deeply toothed into it as well.

Assuming the bottom (i.e. tension side) of the beam is still there, then
I would be inclined to glue up a couple of folding wedges, tap em into
place, and stick the floorboard back! That will provide the missing
compression side of the beam.

Like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Wedges



--
Cheers,

John.

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On 05/10/11 19:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/10/2011 18:37, george [dicegeorge] wrote:
A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

There is no wall underneath it.
How to strengthen it?
I was thinking of replacing the floorboard with a length of steel,
maybe an L shape with notches where the rafters are?
Screwing it down with coachbolts?
Its a flying freehold, underneath is a friendly neighbour,
with a posh ceiling.

I take it its been that way for some time? If so, it suggests that its
not going anywhere in a hurry. It looks rather like most of those floor
joists are pretty deeply toothed into it as well.

Assuming the bottom (i.e. tension side) of the beam is still there, then
I would be inclined to glue up a couple of folding wedges, tap em into
place, and stick the floorboard back! That will provide the missing
compression side of the beam.

Like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Wedges



the joists are in one inch notches.
Wedges seem a good idea.
thanks.

[george]

On Oct 5, 6:37*pm, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

There is no wall underneath it.
How to strengthen it?
I was thinking of replacing the floorboard with a length of steel,
maybe an L shape with notches where the rafters are?
Screwing it down with coachbolts?
Its a flying freehold, underneath is a friendly neighbour,
with a posh ceiling.

[g]

What is the overall length of the beam in question? Obviously the
longer the beam the greater the bending moment. If its only a yard or
so wide you may not have much to worry about. At a pinch you could
attach a suitable angle iron to the beam to carry the load instead.

On Oct 5, 6:37*pm, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

There is no wall underneath it.
How to strengthen it?
I was thinking of replacing the floorboard with a length of steel,
maybe an L shape with notches where the rafters are?
Screwing it down with coachbolts?
Its a flying freehold, underneath is a friendly neighbour,
with a posh ceiling.

[g]

I might be tempted to add 3 noggins, fixing them well to the timbers
running in /both/ directions


NT

On Oct 5, 6:37*pm, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

There is no wall underneath it.
How to strengthen it?
I was thinking of replacing the floorboard with a length of steel,
maybe an L shape with notches where the rafters are?
Screwing it down with coachbolts?
Its a flying freehold, underneath is a friendly neighbour,
with a posh ceiling.

Is there any sign of bending? lay a straight edge along it and
measure the deflection.

Is the loading going to be changed from what it is now?

Maybe it was built that way and is fine. It is quite a wide beam.

Robert

On 05/10/2011 20:40, george [dicegeorge] wrote:
On 05/10/11 20:09, cynic wrote:
On Oct 5, 6:37 pm, "george
wrote:
A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a
wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

There is no wall underneath it.
How to strengthen it?
I was thinking of replacing the floorboard with a length of steel,
maybe an L shape with notches where the rafters are?
Screwing it down with coachbolts?
Its a flying freehold, underneath is a friendly neighbour,
with a posh ceiling.

[g]

What is the overall length of the beam in question? Obviously the
longer the beam the greater the bending moment. If its only a yard or
so wide you may not have much to worry about. At a pinch you could
attach a suitable angle iron to the beam to carry the load instead.
one yard to the wall at the left, five yards to the right
[g]

By rights at that length the beam looks as if it should have collapsed
under its own weight long ago. A silly question I know but are you sure
that there is a flat ceiling beneath and not an exposed beam with
another 4 - 6" of depth below what is shown in the photo?

As to improving the situation how about a steel fishplate across the top
replacing the floorboard in the vicinity of the notch?

--
Roger Chapman

[Default] On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:37:00 +0100, a certain chimpanzee,
"george [dicegeorge]" , randomly hit the
keyboard and wrote:

A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

Am I missing something? The bits of timber with the deep notch look
like noggins, albeit very chunky noggins. It appears that the joists
run counter to the wall as one can see by the direction of the boards
& the laths.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

On 06/10/11 11:04, RobertL wrote:
On Oct 5, 6:37 pm, "george
wrote:
A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

There is no wall underneath it.
How to strengthen it?
I was thinking of replacing the floorboard with a length of steel,
maybe an L shape with notches where the rafters are?
Screwing it down with coachbolts?
Its a flying freehold, underneath is a friendly neighbour,
with a posh ceiling.

Is there any sign of bending? lay a straight edge along it and
measure the deflection.

Is the loading going to be changed from what it is now?

Maybe it was built that way and is fine. It is quite a wide beam.

Robert


The deep notch was for plumbing installed in the 60's (i think)

I think the beam is oak, recycled when they built this house 150 years
ago from the old house they knocked down - so its very strong!

John Rumm's wedges seemthe way to go.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Wedges

[george]

On 06/10/2011 12:09, Hugo Nebula wrote:
[Default] On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:37:00 +0100, a certain chimpanzee,
"george , randomly hit the
keyboard and wrote:

A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a wall?

http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...otched167m.jpg

Am I missing something? The bits of timber with the deep notch look
like noggins, albeit very chunky noggins. It appears that the joists
run counter to the wall as one can see by the direction of the boards
& the laths.

Lift my bedroom floorboards and you will see something very similar.
Major beams 9" x 6" and transverse beams 4" x 3". Downstairs all you see
is the bottom 4" of the major beams although when the house was built
what would have been seen was both sets of beams and the painted
underside of the floorboards.

The two transverse beans on the left of the picture do not appear to be
continuous. Indeed the far left one appears to have an offset at the
middle of the major beam.

--
Roger Chapman

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:37:00 +0100, george [dicegeorge] wrote:
A 3 inch notch in a 4 inch beam which supports a lot of floor and a
wall?

Wait, is the beam 4" tall, or 4" wide?

If 4" tall and what's visible is the top-side of the ceiling below then
don't you only have 4"-high joists too, which doesn't sound like enough
to be holding up a floor at all? (at least not over average room-sized
spans; if it were supported every foot or two, or in an attic not
designed to take furniture loads, it might be different)

cheers

Jules