Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Huge wrote:
On 2011-08-05, J.G.Harston wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I'm not an economist, but I suspect there are actually just a few
fundamental things a nation needs to get right. Some of these (such
The problem is, the people who would suffer from the reconstruction
of the economic system have votes.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can
only
exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money
from
the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for
the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with
the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy
always followed by dictatorship.
- Alexander Fraser Tyler,'The Decline and Fall of the Athenian
Republic'.
Hopefully he was wrong about dictatorship.
I suspect not.

Anyway we are a monarchy.

Might end up with King William V and a controlling army, and take your
hat off when he goes past...

And barons running the shires, and mayors running the towns.

Be a lot preferable to Commissar Millibrain

Monarchy has worked a lot longer than democracy.

You can be Robin hood if you want. I bags Sheriff of Nottingham.

Can I have Maid Marian? Oh, sorry ...

yerrrs. Shagging in the green wood probably beats sitting on the dole in
toxteth,,

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:29:26 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
However, I think fixing the problems with education is the number one
thing we have to tackle, as it's the longest to start reaping rewards.

No good if the jobs aren't there at the end of it all, though. We seem to
have a society (and this is just as true in the US where I am as it is in
the UK) that is these days built upon the idea of consumption rather than
production, and I think that needs to change first. Recognise the
benefits of being able to design and build and maintain first, and *then*
educate accordingly.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Huge wrote:

On 2011-08-05, tim.... wrote:

"harryagain" wrote in message
...
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.

If you think that this mess has anything at all to do with Blair and
Brown, then you haven't been listening properly

of course it's to do with B'liar and rubber lips. They're politicians.
They
borrowed money and ****ed it away on bribing their clients. They managed
to run a deficit in the good times. They're scum. B'liar should be
executed
as a war criminal. At least rubber lips has the good grace to keep his
head
down, presumably because of all the people pointing and laughing. Boom &
bust, eh, Gordon?

Well, The Clown has just popped up.
Offering his advice on how to tackle the latest world disaster.
Yeah, right...........Everybody's listening.

"Robin" wrote in message
...
If you think that this mess has anything at all to do with Blair and
Brown, then you haven't been listening properly

If you think it doesn't then I can recommend a bit of DIY research: just
buy a few drinks for ex-Treasury officials who worked with Brown and the 2
Eds.

As B&B didn't take us into the Euro, and weren't in power when the, now
discredited, bailout was negotiated, I fail to see how they can have
anything to do with "today's" mess

tim

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-08-05, tim.... wrote:

"harryagain" wrote in message
...
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.

If you think that this mess has anything at all to do with Blair and
Brown,
then you haven't been listening properly

I see that you snipped the bit where I said that they were responsible for a
different mess.

I.e the one that you are describing below.



of course it's to do with B'liar and rubber lips. They're politicians.
They
borrowed money and ****ed it away on bribing their clients. They managed
to run a deficit in the good times. They're scum. B'liar should be
executed
as a war criminal. At least rubber lips has the good grace to keep his
head
down, presumably because of all the people pointing and laughing. Boom &
bust, eh, Gordon?

--
Today is Boomtime, the 71st day of Confusion in the YOLD 3177
Sing, for song drives away the wolves.

tim.... wrote:
"Robin" wrote in message
...
If you think that this mess has anything at all to do with Blair and
Brown, then you haven't been listening properly
If you think it doesn't then I can recommend a bit of DIY research: just
buy a few drinks for ex-Treasury officials who worked with Brown and the 2
Eds.

As B&B didn't take us into the Euro, and weren't in power when the, now
discredited, bailout was negotiated, I fail to see how they can have
anything to do with "today's" mess

Which one? The current Euro mess was nowt to do with B&B.

Our mess, OTOH, has a *lot* to do with them. Also, it has a fair bit to
do with the Merkin mess.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"Robin" wrote:
[snip]

Best idea I've heard lately is to marry a Norwegian

Worst idea I've ever heard of. Norwegian women seem to have black widow
spider DNA. Someone I know married a Norwegian woman. The Danish woman in
the office said "I'm sorry to hear it, we say a Norwegian in the family
means the death of the family."

After three years she had thrown both of his children out of the house,
then she made him write his will in favour of her child, then she divorced
him and made him sell the house that he bought before he met her giving her
half the proceeds. His kids won't talk to him and he still has to give his
business to her son when he dies.

On Fri, 5 Aug 2011 17:47:31 +0000 (UTC), Steve Firth
wrote:



Best idea I've heard lately is to marry a Norwegian

Worst idea I've ever heard of. Norwegian women seem to have black widow
spider DNA. Someone I know married a Norwegian woman. The Danish woman in
the office said "I'm sorry to hear it, we say a Norwegian in the family
means the death of the family."


If I may be permitted to paraphrase your goodself ...

"Sooner a corpse in the kitchen than a Norwegian woman in the family."

Derek G.

--

This Looks like Finito Ruperto.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

Mine remembers an administration mortgaging the future with PFI. and
engaging in unnecessary wars.

If we can't afford investments in education and the health service out
of current income how are we to afford it when the bills come in?

regards


--
Tim Lamb

Steve Firth wrote:
After three years she had thrown both of his children out of the house,
then she made him write his will in favour of her child, then she divorced
him and made him sell the house that he bought before he met her giving her

A divorce automatically invalidates any existing will, and there's
nothing to stop him writing a new one.

JGH

At one time my firm was putting 18% of my gross into the pot, and
deducting 9% from that as my contribution.
I'd not call that lucky, merely prudent.

When I was working I was putting about 25% of my gross into my pension.
The way I figure it, it means I have to be earning for three years for
every year I'm not earning. I have little sympathy for these people who
are up in arms about being forced to put 9% of their income into their
pensionsm unless they really are planning to only live for five weeks
for every year they've been earning.

JGH

On 5/08/2011 9:29 p.m., Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In ,
writes:
On 2011-08-05, wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.

They didn't help, but politicians of all flavours have been digging the hole
for the last 50 years. It's just a pity that we had to fall into it now.

I'm not an economist, but I suspect there are actually just a few
fundamental things a nation needs to get right. Some of these (such
as education) will take at least 2 generations to filter through
once your realise that's important and focus resources appropriately.
(there's your 50 years). Some others (such as venture capital
availability and encouragement) can be turned around in a few years
with the right incentives for potential investors.

I also wonder if there might not be something cyclical to some
aspects of this.

I agree completely about the cyclical theory. It makes perfect sense.
Rags to riches to rags in three generations.

On 5/08/2011 10:57 p.m., J.G.Harston wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I'm not an economist, but I suspect there are actually just a few
fundamental things a nation needs to get right. Some of these (such

The problem is, the people who would suffer from the reconstruction
of the economic system have votes.

JGH

There is also the small matter of the Chinese (and the rest). How does
production come back to Europe and the US? The only way I can see it
happening within the next 50 years is through limiting trade. Either
way standards of living must drop in the rich countries, and that's got
nothing at all to do with the Labour Party.

On 6/08/2011 1:41 a.m., Andrew Gabriel wrote:

That is a rule I have always applied to my own life. I can date that back
to pocket money my grandmother gave me which had to go into a savings
account, and this instilled the idea into me of saving up until I could
afford something I wanted, right back from about age 5. The only exception
I have ever allowed myself to this is a mortgage for my home.

Another ditto here.

On 5/08/2011 10:03 p.m., Huge wrote:
On 2011-08-05, Dave Plowman wrote:

I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

Obviously, it isn't down to them specifically, but it's essentially the
fault of the politicians. Yes, Keynes said Governments can spend their
way out of recession, but he also said that reserves have to be rebuilt
during the good times and B'liar and that repellent **** who replaced
him signally failed to do that.



Revisionism. Do you think Blair is also to blame for the problems in
Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, the US, ... Do I have to go on? The
same patterns are present in all these countries.

On 6/08/2011 5:35 a.m., John Williamson wrote:
tim.... wrote:
"Robin" wrote in message
...
If you think that this mess has anything at all to do with Blair and
Brown, then you haven't been listening properly
If you think it doesn't then I can recommend a bit of DIY research:
just buy a few drinks for ex-Treasury officials who worked with Brown
and the 2 Eds.

As B&B didn't take us into the Euro, and weren't in power when the,
now discredited, bailout was negotiated, I fail to see how they can
have anything to do with "today's" mess

Which one? The current Euro mess was nowt to do with B&B.

Our mess, OTOH, has a *lot* to do with them. Also, it has a fair bit to
do with the Merkin mess.


The mess is global. There is a tectonic shift occurring in the world.
The period of ascendancy of the so-called West (Europe + the US) is
coming to an end. Meet the new boss ...

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:33:40 +0100, "J.G.Harston"
wrote:

At one time my firm was putting 18% of my gross into the pot, and
deducting 9% from that as my contribution.
I'd not call that lucky, merely prudent.

When I was working I was putting about 25% of my gross into my pension.
The way I figure it, it means I have to be earning for three years for
every year I'm not earning. I have little sympathy for these people who
are up in arms about being forced to put 9% of their income into their
pensionsm unless they really are planning to only live for five weeks
for every year they've been earning.


Fairy snuff.

But for me that might be 3-4 years. Given my prospective state of
health that's not too far from being more /less adequate for me (Out
of about 6 of us, one of my colleagues died this week at age 65 [Lung
Cancer], another died earlier at 63 [Heart failure])

At various times in the last 34 years since we started our scheme that
would have been nothing like necessary. Our fund went up by 27% in one
single year. Try grossing Ca. £4k up for 34 years at 27% compound
interest and see what you get.

IGWS Sadly this level of performance has not been maintained.

In fact the provider strove assiduously to conceal the fact that our
pension fund was investment based at all, when I asked what our
ultimate pension would be the sleaze-ball salesman just said it would
be "Telephone Numbers" but that that was alright because it was all
run under I.R. scrutiny according to government rules.

It was only when the government were pressed to underwrite the outcome
of the Maxwell debacle in favour of pensioners who had been skanked
that they started talking about the Maxwell Pension fund in terms of
it being a "Bad Investment" (like a bet on the 2-30 at Kempton Park),
and hence not something they need to concern themselves about.

Derek G.

--

This Looks like Finito Ruperto.

On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 09:20:06 +1200, Gib Bogle
wrote:

Revisionism. Do you think Blair is also to blame for the problems in
Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, the US, ...

No I don't,

The Greek public servants have been paying themselves more than twice
those in Germany. Nice work if you can get it.

Ireland got skanked by multinationals (Such as D.E.C. and others) who
signed the Irish up for no taxation deals for fixed periods and then
buggered off to Malaysia/Singapore etc the instant the tax concession
finished.

Ireland also benefitted big time from C.A.P. subsidies which have run
out now because there's not enough cash to go round subsidising the
new eastern European accession countries.

I've worked in Athens, Dublin and Boston USA. Their problems are
totally different. Trust me.

Do I have to go on?

What do you think ?

The same patterns are present in all these countries.

If you mean their politicians (Like the Grinnmeister and Prudence mac
****e-Features) are not fit to be trusted with a bucket of dead ashes
I'd tend to agree.

Derek G.


--

This Looks like Finito Ruperto.

On 6/08/2011 9:32 a.m., Huge wrote:
On 2011-08-05, Gib wrote:
On 5/08/2011 10:03 p.m., Huge wrote:
On 2011-08-05, Dave Plowman wrote:

I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

Obviously, it isn't down to them specifically, but it's essentially the
fault of the politicians. Yes, Keynes said Governments can spend their
way out of recession, but he also said that reserves have to be rebuilt
during the good times and B'liar and that repellent **** who replaced
him signally failed to do that.



Revisionism. Do you think Blair is also to blame for the problems in
Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, the US, ... Do I have to go on? The
same patterns are present in all these countries.

Jesus, you're almost as stupid as the politicians who've ****ed away
all the money.


Your resorting to abuse says a lot about you.

On 6/08/2011 10:49 a.m., Derek G. wrote:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 09:20:06 +1200, Gib
wrote:

Revisionism. Do you think Blair is also to blame for the problems in
Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, the US, ...

No I don't,

The Greek public servants have been paying themselves more than twice
those in Germany. Nice work if you can get it.

Ireland got skanked by multinationals (Such as D.E.C. and others) who
signed the Irish up for no taxation deals for fixed periods and then
buggered off to Malaysia/Singapore etc the instant the tax concession
finished.

Ireland also benefitted big time from C.A.P. subsidies which have run
out now because there's not enough cash to go round subsidising the
new eastern European accession countries.

I've worked in Athens, Dublin and Boston USA. Their problems are
totally different. Trust me.

Do I have to go on?

What do you think ?

The same patterns are present in all these countries.

If you mean their politicians (Like the Grinnmeister and Prudence mac
****e-Features) are not fit to be trusted with a bucket of dead ashes
I'd tend to agree.

Politicians represent people. People elect politicians. Do you think
the politicians are somehow an alien species? Hard to see how they get
elected, in that case. Do politicians lie? Yes, and they lie because
the voters want them to lie. Telling the truth is a sure way to lose.
Do they borrow excessively? Yes, as do the people who elect them. The
West has been living high off the hog, on borrowed money. Reality is
now biting.

BTW I despise Blair as much as anyone does. He should be tried at the
World Court, in my opinion. Brown never impressed me, and the way he
sold off the gold should have disqualified him from any political
office. But to focus on these two is not useful, IMO. You have to have
the blinkers on not to see the developments in all the countries
mentioned as part of a worldwide pattern. As by far the biggest actor,
the US has more responsibility than any other country, and within the US
I put most blame on the unholy alliance between successive governments
and the "banks".

On Fri, 5 Aug 2011 13:41:25 +0000 (UTC) Andrew Gabriel wrote :
That is a rule I have always applied to my own life. I can date that back
to pocket money my grandmother gave me which had to go into a savings
account, and this instilled the idea into me of saving up until I could
afford something I wanted, right back from about age 5. The only
exception I have ever allowed myself to this is a mortgage for my home.

But that's borrowing for a bona-fide asset, rather than borrowing for
consumption. Borrowing for something that will increase your earning power
(education, a reliable van for TMH) is an equally reasonable thing to do.
But taking out a loan to pay for a holiday is economic illiteracy.

Likewise on the government front: borrowing for genuinely useful improved
infrastructure is OK in my book. Otherwise, as Gordon Brown promised - but
sadly he didn't keep to it, across the economic cycle spending and
borrowing should cancel out.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

But taking out a loan to pay for a holiday is economic
illiteracy.


As Diane Abbot said last year (in one of the more mature speeches she
sometimes makes these days), "People want the bling, the clothes, the
jewellery and the designer labels, and they want it now. There is no
notion of deferred gratification among many of our young people. "



--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

In message , "dennis@home"
writes

You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another.
Its not surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and
socialism has similar principles.


Dennis - you are a first order prick and you've just proved it beyond
reasonable doubt

--
geoff

On 05/08/2011 14:41, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

However, I think it's quite reasonable for businesses to borrow to grow.
Countries are effectively giant businesses, and I see no reason they can't
also borrow to grow, but of course that isn't what's happening here now,
and country leaders (politicians) are lousey busimess leaders, so I have
severe doubts in their abilities to identify what is worth borrowing to
invest in.

Not aided by the last lot attempting to newspeak plain old fashioned
"spending" into the far more wholesome sounding "investment". It all
helps lose sight of the objectives.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Gib Bogle wrote:
On 6/08/2011 5:35 a.m., John Williamson wrote:
tim.... wrote:
"Robin" wrote in message
...
If you think that this mess has anything at all to do with Blair and
Brown, then you haven't been listening properly
If you think it doesn't then I can recommend a bit of DIY research:
just buy a few drinks for ex-Treasury officials who worked with Brown
and the 2 Eds.

As B&B didn't take us into the Euro, and weren't in power when the,
now discredited, bailout was negotiated, I fail to see how they can
have anything to do with "today's" mess

Which one? The current Euro mess was nowt to do with B&B.

Our mess, OTOH, has a *lot* to do with them. Also, it has a fair bit to
do with the Merkin mess.


The mess is global. There is a tectonic shift occurring in the world.
The period of ascendancy of the so-called West (Europe + the US) is
coming to an end. Meet the new boss ...

I need to learn Mandarin and Cantonese, then. Both tonal languages, and
I'm tone deaf.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

in 1059190 20110805 094641 The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bob Martin wrote:
in 1059182 20110805 091032 "harryagain" wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

Yep, you're gonna be poor!

No when average income is £3000 a year, only people who earn less than
£2000 will be poor.


£3000 being about the price of an I-pod by then.

You didn't notice who I was replying to, then?

En el artículo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió:

However, I think fixing the problems with education is the number one
thing we have to tackle, as it's the longest to start reaping rewards.

Not only that, we have to inculcate the concept of working for a living
into people.

There are too many living on benefits, three and four generations of
families who can work, but won't, and live entirely off benefits.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

En el artículo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió:

That is a rule I have always applied to my own life. I can date that back
to pocket money my grandmother gave me which had to go into a savings
account, and this instilled the idea into me of saving up until I could
afford something I wanted, right back from about age 5. The only exception
I have ever allowed myself to this is a mortgage for my home.

Another +1.

Apart from a mortgage, I've only ever borrowed to take advantage of
deals like 0% interest on credit cards and make sure they are paid off
on time so as not to incur interest.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

En el artículo , The Natural Philosopher
escribió:

bit more than that sadly.

Not really. It's household economics, just on a larger scale.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

En el artículo , Huge
escribió:

Keynes said Governments can spend their
way out of recession, but he also said that reserves have to be rebuilt
during the good times and B'liar and that repellent **** who replaced
him signally failed to do that.

That's be the same repellent **** who flogged off our gold reserves when
the price was at an all-time low. Just think how much those reserves
would have been worth today.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

Mine remembers an administration mortgaging the future with PFI.

*nods*

Gonna be interesting when those particular chickens come home to roost.
And all in the name of keeping expenditure off the balance sheets.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

En el artículo , Gib Bogle
escribió:

Meet the new boss ...

China.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Derek G. wrote:

Worst idea I've ever heard of. Norwegian women seem to have black widow
spider DNA. Someone I know married a Norwegian woman. The Danish woman in
the office said "I'm sorry to hear it, we say a Norwegian in the family
means the death of the family."


If I may be permitted to paraphrase your goodself ...

"Sooner a corpse in the kitchen than a Norwegian woman in the family."

Ah yes, could have been that, it was some time ago.

On Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:42:08 +0100 Mike Tomlinson wrote :
That's be the same repellent **** who flogged off our gold reserves
when the price was at an all-time low. Just think how much those
reserves would have been worth today.

This comes out again and again. Our [Australian] treasurer, Peter
Costello, a right wing conservative did no better: "The RBA [Reserve
Bank of Australia] revealed in July 1997 that over a six-month period,
it had sold 167 tonnes, reducing Australia's reserves to just 80
tonnes. At this time, the value of its gold assets fell from $3.6bn to
about $1.1bn. The RBA's sales pushed the world gold price down to an
11-year low, returning just $2.4bn for the gold that was sold via a
single broker engaged without a tender." [The Australian].

If you want to apply hindsight, Mrs T could have sold off all the UK's
gold in 1980 and bought back twice the quantity a couple of years
later for the same money after the price halved. Just think how much
those reserves would have been worth today. Better still, she could
have sold off all the gold in 1980 and bought it back in 1997 for way
less than it was sold for which would have saved another huge chunk of
money in saved interest. If you want to castigate GB, his
predecessor's decision to do nothing cost the UK big time.

The actual 'cost' of GB's decision is generally put in the single
digit billions. Not nothing, but probably a lot less than paid out in
city bonuses each year, and a fraction of the £210bn reportedly wiped
off FTSE shares in the last month.

All this proves is that no one knows where prices will go next - if
they did it would be factored into the current price.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another. Its not
surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and socialism
has similar principles.

And arguably the most successful country in the world - China - is?

--
*How can I miss you if you won't go away?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Keynes said Governments can spend their
way out of recession, but he also said that reserves have to be rebuilt
during the good times and B'liar and that repellent **** who replaced
him signally failed to do that.

That's be the same repellent **** who flogged off our gold reserves when
the price was at an all-time low. Just think how much those reserves
would have been worth today.

Just the same as the natural gas supplies, then...

--
*If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 6 Aug 2011 09:28:59 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

En el artículo , Gib Bogle
escribió:

Meet the new boss ...

China.

Have a look at
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=629_1312594600
only about a minute of the Banned US Commercial on the National Debt - funny
but true.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 06/08/2011 09:52 Huge wrote:

On 2011-08-06, Mike wrote:

Not only that, we have to inculcate the concept of working for a living
into people.

There are too many living on benefits, three and four generations of
families who can work, but won't, and live entirely off benefits.

That's simple. Take their benefits away.

Agreed.

How we allow school leavers to go onto benefit and stay on it for years
beats me. They should be allowed no more than six months and then lose
it all with no prospect of getting back onto it until they've been back
in work for a long time.

The system in Chile seems to work well and, if I understood the
explanation correctly, applies to everyone. No job and you go on benefit
that gradually tapers away until you get nothing. Only after you've
found a job and made contributions over a defined period do you get back
any entitlement.

--
F

Gib Bogle wrote:
On 5/08/2011 10:57 p.m., J.G.Harston wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I'm not an economist, but I suspect there are actually just a few
fundamental things a nation needs to get right. Some of these (such

The problem is, the people who would suffer from the reconstruction
of the economic system have votes.

JGH

There is also the small matter of the Chinese (and the rest). How does
production come back to Europe and the US? The only way I can see it
happening within the next 50 years is through limiting trade. Either
way standards of living must drop in the rich countries, and that's got
nothing at all to do with the Labour Party.

No. remove income tax, corporation tax, capital gains tax treble VAT on
unnecessary goods like I-pods.

make benefits universal. But low.

Remove minimum wage.


Universal benefit and no income tax an effective subsidy on low paid worker.

high paid worker isn't taxed. Except when buying I-pod,, Mercedes etc.

Voila!

Open for business till everyone copies.

Then drop the pound value.

geoff wrote:
In message , "dennis@home"
writes

You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another.
Its not surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and
socialism has similar principles.


Dennis - you are a first order prick and you've just proved it beyond
reasonable doubt

Actually in this he is reasonably correct.

A graph of public debt versus govt shows every time labour get in, they
spend and borrow.