Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

in 1059182 20110805 091032 "harryagain" wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

Yep, you're gonna be poor!

Bob Martin wrote:
in 1059182 20110805 091032 "harryagain" wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

Yep, you're gonna be poor!

No when average income is £3000 a year, only people who earn less than
£2000 will be poor.


£3000 being about the price of an I-pod by then.

in 1059190 20110805 094641 The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bob Martin wrote:
in 1059182 20110805 091032 "harryagain" wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

Yep, you're gonna be poor!

No when average income is £3000 a year, only people who earn less than
£2000 will be poor.


£3000 being about the price of an I-pod by then.

You didn't notice who I was replying to, then?

In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

--
*If vegetable oil comes from vegetables, where does baby oil come from? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

very selective. I remember a period of eroding assets, stealth taxes at
every turn, a stock market crash followed by a housing bubble and a
global crash.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

very selective. I remember a period of eroding assets, stealth taxes at
every turn, a stock market crash followed by a housing bubble and a
global crash.

+1

Government (and private) borrowing increasing even in the good years,
the grab from private pensions, Government spending more than income.....

Not that Mr. Brown would admit to it, of course. He was good at hiding
things.

Then "Oh, dear, we've run out of money."

I was working at the same job for the whole period, and I noticed that,
as normal, after years of the Tories, I had money to spare to the extent
I didn't need to know exactly how much I had, and after years of Labour,
I no longer had any to spare, and could tell you to the penny exactly
what was down the back of the sofa. Nothing, because I'd had to raid
there last weekend.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article ,
John Williamson wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

very selective. I remember a period of eroding assets, stealth taxes at
every turn, a stock market crash followed by a housing bubble and a
global crash.

+1

Government (and private) borrowing increasing even in the good years,
the grab from private pensions, Government spending more than income.....

The pension thingie didn't have any effect on my pension - a private one.
But obviously a well run one. I get exactly as contracted.

Not that Mr. Brown would admit to it, of course. He was good at hiding
things.

Then "Oh, dear, we've run out of money."

I was working at the same job for the whole period, and I noticed that,
as normal, after years of the Tories, I had money to spare to the extent
I didn't need to know exactly how much I had, and after years of Labour,
I no longer had any to spare, and could tell you to the penny exactly
what was down the back of the sofa. Nothing, because I'd had to raid
there last weekend.

I was made redundant from a decent job towards the end of the last Tory
government. Then persued a freelance career in the same job. Made more
money than before. And all those I know did well in this period.

I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

--
*Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

Well, they claimed all the credit for the worldwide boom that preceded
it.....

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 05/08/11 10:42, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The pension thingie didn't have any effect on my pension - a private one.
But obviously a well run one. I get exactly as contracted.

So you were lucky, you got out when the going was good. It's those yet
to retire who are loosing.


--
djc

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Williamson wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government.
Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

very selective. I remember a period of eroding assets, stealth taxes at
every turn, a stock market crash followed by a housing bubble and a
global crash.

+1

Government (and private) borrowing increasing even in the good years,
the grab from private pensions, Government spending more than income.....

The pension thingie didn't have any effect on my pension - a private one.
But obviously a well run one. I get exactly as contracted.

Not that Mr. Brown would admit to it, of course. He was good at hiding
things.

Then "Oh, dear, we've run out of money."

I was working at the same job for the whole period, and I noticed that,
as normal, after years of the Tories, I had money to spare to the extent
I didn't need to know exactly how much I had, and after years of Labour,
I no longer had any to spare, and could tell you to the penny exactly
what was down the back of the sofa. Nothing, because I'd had to raid
there last weekend.

I was made redundant from a decent job towards the end of the last Tory
government. Then persued a freelance career in the same job. Made more
money than before. And all those I know did well in this period.

I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

Of course it isn't, but our inability to recover from it most certainly is.

tim

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...


The pension thingie didn't have any effect on my pension - a private one.
But obviously a well run one. I get exactly as contracted.

It had an effect, it removed funds from your pension pot. You would either
have got more or it would have cost less if TB hadn't raided the funds.


Not that Mr. Brown would admit to it, of course. He was good at hiding
things.

Then "Oh, dear, we've run out of money."

I was working at the same job for the whole period, and I noticed that,
as normal, after years of the Tories, I had money to spare to the extent
I didn't need to know exactly how much I had, and after years of Labour,
I no longer had any to spare, and could tell you to the penny exactly
what was down the back of the sofa. Nothing, because I'd had to raid
there last weekend.

I was made redundant from a decent job towards the end of the last Tory
government. Then persued a freelance career in the same job. Made more
money than before. And all those I know did well in this period.

You went freelance doing the same.. so it was nothing to do with the
government you were made redundant, just poor management.


I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

They certainly helped.
Just as they helped the banking crisis.
They will also have helped the upcoming energy crisis.

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:42:57 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:



The pension thingie didn't have any effect on my pension - a private one.
But obviously a well run one. I get exactly as contracted.


How'd they do that then ? Seeing as how it was an investment?

In general an investment conservative enough to be able to do that
would be un-attractive especially when all the commissions have been
taken into account (up to 50% over the contribution period).

Put another way, as a rule some shonky slime-ball of a salesman would
have come along and promise better.

Not that Mr. Brown would admit to it, of course. He was good at hiding
things.

Then "Oh, dear, we've run out of money."

I was working at the same job for the whole period, and I noticed that,
as normal, after years of the Tories, I had money to spare to the extent
I didn't need to know exactly how much I had, and after years of Labour,
I no longer had any to spare, and could tell you to the penny exactly
what was down the back of the sofa. Nothing, because I'd had to raid
there last weekend.

I was made redundant from a decent job towards the end of the last Tory
government. Then persued a freelance career in the same job. Made more
money than before. And all those I know did well in this period.


Thank Margaret Hilda then. There had "always" been a tradition of
freelancing in the Broadcast industry. Perhaps because programmes
could be cobbled together in rented church halls on gear rented by the
day. Didn't do much for engineers in TV centre thobut.

I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

"Prudence" mac ****e-Features brought that on himself.

Dere G.


--

This Looks like Finito Ruperto.

On 05/08/2011 11:03, Huge wrote:
On 2011-08-05, Dave Plowman wrote:

I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

Obviously, it isn't down to them specifically, but it's essentially the
fault of the politicians. Yes, Keynes said Governments can spend their
way out of recession, but he also said that reserves have to be rebuilt
during the good times and B'liar and that repellent **** who replaced
him signally failed to do that.


Lack of control of the city at a time when the conservative opposition
were calling for less controls on the banks. So the directors and
shareholders made lot of money in the good times and the poor now have
to pay for it.
And the conservatives still encourage the private sector who will
continue to make as much money as they can today regardless of the
consequences to those who are care home occupants or owed money by
bankrupt firms that are then bought back without debt by the original
owners.

On 5 Aug 2011 10:03:31 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2011-08-05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

Obviously, it isn't down to them specifically, but it's essentially the
fault of the politicians. Yes, Keynes said Governments can spend their
way out of recession, but he also said that reserves have to be rebuilt
during the good times and B'liar and that repellent **** who replaced
him signally failed to do that.

A slime mould would have been more capable of winning mastermind.

Derek G.


--

This Looks like Finito Ruperto.

On 5/08/2011 10:03 p.m., Huge wrote:
On 2011-08-05, Dave Plowman wrote:

I find it quite interesting this world recession is thought by some to be
down to Blair and Brown...

Obviously, it isn't down to them specifically, but it's essentially the
fault of the politicians. Yes, Keynes said Governments can spend their
way out of recession, but he also said that reserves have to be rebuilt
during the good times and B'liar and that repellent **** who replaced
him signally failed to do that.



Revisionism. Do you think Blair is also to blame for the problems in
Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, the US, ... Do I have to go on? The
same patterns are present in all these countries.

En el artículo , Huge
escribió:

Keynes said Governments can spend their
way out of recession, but he also said that reserves have to be rebuilt
during the good times and B'liar and that repellent **** who replaced
him signally failed to do that.

That's be the same repellent **** who flogged off our gold reserves when
the price was at an all-time low. Just think how much those reserves
would have been worth today.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

John Williamson wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government.
Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

very selective. I remember a period of eroding assets, stealth taxes
at every turn, a stock market crash followed by a housing bubble and
a global crash.

+1

Government (and private) borrowing increasing even in the good years,
the grab from private pensions, Government spending more than income.....

Not that Mr. Brown would admit to it, of course. He was good at hiding
things.

Then "Oh, dear, we've run out of money."

I was working at the same job for the whole period, and I noticed that,
as normal, after years of the Tories, I had money to spare to the extent
I didn't need to know exactly how much I had, and after years of Labour,
I no longer had any to spare, and could tell you to the penny exactly
what was down the back of the sofa. Nothing, because I'd had to raid
there last weekend.

precisely.

Government spending more than income.....

Most but not all of them all the time. An IFS paper from 2002 is IMHO
one of the best brief accounts of the history of the
PSBR/deficit/whatever. http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn26.pdf

What happened after 2002 can of course be read on the way back from the
chip shop most evenings - oh no, sorry, despite the eco mantra they've
regulated away that traditional bit of "re-use"
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

Robin wrote:
Government spending more than income.....

Most but not all of them all the time. An IFS paper from 2002 is IMHO
one of the best brief accounts of the history of the
PSBR/deficit/whatever. http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn26.pdf

What happened after 2002 can of course be read on the way back from the
chip shop most evenings - oh no, sorry, despite the eco mantra they've
regulated away that traditional bit of "re-use"


every sharp peak marks a labour government coming into power..

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:05:04 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:



You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?


So Margaret Hilda didn't do too bad a job then.

Glad her efforts have finally been recognised.

Derek G.


--

This Looks like Finito Ruperto.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

--
I would call it the build up of personal and national debt to completely
unsustainable levels by a bunch of half wits who couldn't see further than
the next election. War criminals too.
Robbed the pensions of thousands.
Sold our gold at rock bottom prices.
Instituted a finacial system doomed to failure.
Spent money like it came for free. Much of it wasted.


F***g socialism. Wondered when an excusnik would appear.

In article ,
harryagain wrote:
You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

--
I would call it the build up of personal and national debt to completely
unsustainable levels by a bunch of half wits who couldn't see further than
the next election. War criminals too.
Robbed the pensions of thousands.
Sold our gold at rock bottom prices.
Instituted a finacial system doomed to failure.
Spent money like it came for free. Much of it wasted.


F***g socialism. Wondered when an excusnik would appear.

Seem to remember Thatcher selling off our *real* gold (gas) quite
wantonly. But then as I said people have selective memories...

--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 11:29:45 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
harryagain wrote:
You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

--
I would call it the build up of personal and national debt to completely
unsustainable levels by a bunch of half wits who couldn't see further than
the next election. War criminals too.
Robbed the pensions of thousands.
Sold our gold at rock bottom prices.
Instituted a finacial system doomed to failure.
Spent money like it came for free. Much of it wasted.


F***g socialism. Wondered when an excusnik would appear.
sale of gas
Seem to remember Thatcher selling off our *real* gold (gas) quite
wantonly.

Not exactly sure what you meant by that.

If you allude to the burning of gas as a fuel by industry. That was
forced on us in the end because our competitors in Europe had been
doing it for ages (Decades even) and our abstinence was rendering us
uncompetitive.

But then as I said people have selective memories...

Well yes they do, about Mantlebum, Blears etc in particular.

Derek G.

--

This Looks like Finito Ruperto.

In article ,
Derek G. wrote:
Seem to remember Thatcher selling off our *real* gold (gas) quite
wantonly.

Not exactly sure what you meant by that.

If you allude to the burning of gas as a fuel by industry. That was
forced on us in the end because our competitors in Europe had been
doing it for ages (Decades even) and our abstinence was rendering us
uncompetitive.

And they were sitting on a near inexhaustible supply of coal too?

Think all politicians must be in the AA. One day at a time...

--
*When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 11:29:45 +0100 Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
Seem to remember Thatcher selling off our *real* gold (gas) quite
wantonly. But then as I said people have selective memories...

If you look at a long term graph, there was a point (1981?) when she
could have sold off the gold and bought it back a year or so later
for half the cost.

As to Gordon Brown selling off gold, Peter Costello, our treasurer
(=chancellor) did just the same thing

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225985231872

and he was certainly no socialist.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

Spent money like it came for free. Much of it wasted.

It wasn't wasted, just look how much B&B got out of it.
there are always fools that will vote in anyone offering them more cash even
if there is no cash to give them.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

However subsequent events have shown that it was based on excessive debt and
other tricks.
This is unlike the period immediately before where there was real controlled
growth without the debt build up.

You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in trouble
have socialist governments of one sort or another.
Its not surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and socialism
has similar principles.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes

You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another.
Its not surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and
socialism has similar principles.


Dennis - you are a first order prick and you've just proved it beyond
reasonable doubt

--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message , "dennis@home"
writes

You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another.
Its not surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and
socialism has similar principles.


Dennis - you are a first order prick and you've just proved it beyond
reasonable doubt

Actually in this he is reasonably correct.

A graph of public debt versus govt shows every time labour get in, they
spend and borrow.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
geoff wrote:
In message , "dennis@home"
writes

You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another.
Its not surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and
socialism has similar principles.
Dennis - you are a first order prick and you've just proved it
beyond reasonable doubt

Actually in this he is reasonably correct.

A graph of public debt versus govt shows every time labour get in, they
spend and borrow.

Yes, but to try and intimately associate socialist principles with
communism is what I was on about


--
geoff

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another. Its not
surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and socialism
has similar principles.

And arguably the most successful country in the world - China - is?

--
*How can I miss you if you won't go away?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another. Its not
surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and socialism
has similar principles.

And arguably the most successful country in the world - China - is?

depends what you men by successful.

And it's not a democracy for a start.

Neither is it really communism. Its massively free enterprise.

Abandoning state ownership was what kick started the growth.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another. Its not
surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and socialism
has similar principles.

And arguably the most successful country in the world - China - is?

depends what you men by successful.

And it's not a democracy for a start.

Neither is it really communism. Its massively free enterprise.

Abandoning state ownership was what kick started the growth.

and it has a billion people who still live in genuine poverty (not this
pretend poverty that Westerners have).

tim

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
You may or may not have noticed that all the eurozone countries in
trouble have socialist governments of one sort or another. Its not
surprising really, its now know communism doesn't work and socialism
has similar principles.

And arguably the most successful country in the world - China - is?

Have you converted to "Yoda"-speak, or did you miss out half a sentence

tim

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:05:04 +0100 Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government.
Were you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

I nearly went broke in 1992-93 - partly my own fault, admittedly - with
double digit interest rates and my bank wanting to pull my overdraft
and lend me the money on a 29.9% APR personal loan instead. More than a
few small businesses did go under at the time and huge numbers of
people lost their houses.

My financial position improved hugely between 1997 and 2008 (when I
emigrated) - I worked very hard, paid a lot of tax, unlike HMG and lots
of remortgage-and-spend folk didn't let my expenditure rise in
proportion but instead hardened up my personal balance sheet.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

You seem to have a very selective memory. Mine remembers a very long
period of stability and prosperity under the last labour government. Were
you one of those feckless types who wouldn't work?

Mine remembers an administration mortgaging the future with PFI. and
engaging in unnecessary wars.

If we can't afford investments in education and the health service out
of current income how are we to afford it when the bills come in?

regards


--
Tim Lamb

En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

Mine remembers an administration mortgaging the future with PFI.

*nods*

Gonna be interesting when those particular chickens come home to roost.
And all in the name of keeping expenditure off the balance sheets.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 05/08/2011 09:10, harryagain wrote:
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.
Third world status here we come.

Add Macaroon, Dregg, Osbum and the Bush clan to the list

"harryagain" wrote in message
...
Watching the box today, looks like we're all f***d.
Thanks Bliar and Clown.

If you think that this mess has anything at all to do with Blair and Brown,
then you haven't been listening properly

(that not to say that Blair and Brown didn't preside over a different mess)

tim