We use a Humax, Foxsat freesat box having got fed up with paying Sky and
getting very little we wanted to watch. The only disappointment is that some
channels, Dave for instance that used to be available via Sky are not
available on Freesat but are available on digital. Sadly our digital signal
is not very good so we are often unable to watch digital TV. The other issue
is that when scanning through looking for what's on we now have to scan two
programme guides instead of one and often find the prog we most prefer is on
digital but the signal is bad and can't watch it.

Any suggestions, other than going back to Sky?

Mike

IIRC, Dave is one of the few progs which isn't FTA on satellite.

--
*Beware - animal lover - brakes for pussy*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , MuddyMike
scribeth thus
We use a Humax, Foxsat freesat box having got fed up with paying Sky and
getting very little we wanted to watch. The only disappointment is that some
channels, Dave for instance that used to be available via Sky are not
available on Freesat but are available on digital. Sadly our digital signal
is not very good so we are often unable to watch digital TV. The other issue
is that when scanning through looking for what's on we now have to scan two
programme guides instead of one and often find the prog we most prefer is on
digital but the signal is bad and can't watch it.

Any suggestions, other than going back to Sky?

Mike



Yep!, complain to Dave TV that they ought to be free to air on
Freesat...
--
Tony Sayer

On Jul 21, 11:19*am, tony sayer wrote:
In article , MuddyMike
scribeth thus

We use a Humax, Foxsat freesat box having got fed up with paying Sky and
getting very little we wanted to watch. The only disappointment is that some
channels, Dave for instance that used to be available via Sky are not
available on Freesat but are available on digital. Sadly our digital signal
is not very good so we are often unable to watch digital TV. The other issue
is that when scanning through looking for what's on we now have to scan two
programme guides instead of one and often find the prog we most prefer is on
digital but the signal is bad and can't watch it.

Any suggestions, other than going back to Sky?

Mike

Yep!, complain to Dave TV that they ought to be free to air on
Freesat...

UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

MBQ

In article
,
Man at B&Q wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView. And there is an extra cost for transmitting via
satellite. Either requires a decent external aerial. The problem with
making it available free on satellite is it then becomes free to many who
don't pay any UK licence.

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 21/07/2011 13:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView. And there is an extra cost for transmitting via
satellite. Either requires a decent external aerial. The problem with
making it available free on satellite is it then becomes free to many who
don't pay any UK licence.


If you think how many kWHrs are used to power terrestial transmitters, I
doubt they're much cheaper than leasing a satellite transponder.

The Astra 2D has a very tight footprint over the UK, and while you can
get Freesat in neighbouring countries you need a somewhat larger dish.

In article , Fredxx
writes
On 21/07/2011 13:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView. And there is an extra cost for transmitting via
satellite. Either requires a decent external aerial. The problem with
making it available free on satellite is it then becomes free to many who
don't pay any UK licence.


If you think how many kWHrs are used to power terrestial transmitters, I
doubt they're much cheaper than leasing a satellite transponder.

The Astra 2D has a very tight footprint over the UK, and while you can
get Freesat in neighbouring countries you need a somewhat larger dish.

Isn't the problem that that one has no spare capacity so it has to go on
the wider footprint one and so it has to be encrypted for content
reasons?

When spare capacity becomes available it can be moved and become FTA. I
think I saw plans for this mentioned in uk.tech.digital-tv but can't
remember any specifics.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

In article , MuddyMike
writes
We use a Humax, Foxsat freesat box having got fed up with paying Sky and
getting very little we wanted to watch. The only disappointment is that some
channels, Dave for instance that used to be available via Sky are not
available on Freesat but are available on digital. Sadly our digital signal
is not very good so we are often unable to watch digital TV. The other issue
is that when scanning through looking for what's on we now have to scan two
programme guides instead of one and often find the prog we most prefer is on
digital but the signal is bad and can't watch it.

Any suggestions, other than going back to Sky?

Any chance of improving your freeview reception?

Have you got a grouped aerial?

Has your area had power increased recently through DSO?

Or is it a trees and hills problem?

The freeview EPG beats freesat IMV as you can watch/listen to the
current channel whilst you are scanning the guide. AFAIIA there is no
freesat box that caches the EPG to let you do this.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , MuddyMike
writes
We use a Humax, Foxsat freesat box having got fed up with paying Sky and
getting very little we wanted to watch. The only disappointment is that
some
channels, Dave for instance that used to be available via Sky are not
available on Freesat but are available on digital. Sadly our digital
signal
is not very good so we are often unable to watch digital TV. The other
issue
is that when scanning through looking for what's on we now have to scan
two
programme guides instead of one and often find the prog we most prefer is
on
digital but the signal is bad and can't watch it.

Any suggestions, other than going back to Sky?

Any chance of improving your freeview reception?

Have you got a grouped aerial?

Has your area had power increased recently through DSO?

Or is it a trees and hills problem?

The freeview EPG beats freesat IMV as you can watch/listen to the current
channel whilst you are scanning the guide. AFAIIA there is no freesat box
that caches the EPG to let you do this.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

We have already replaced the aerial with the biggest that the rigger could
find, and have a five channel booster box in the loft. A lot of the time the
we get a good picture, but no always. Sods law comes into play and the
picture is crap just when we want to watch something.

Our Humax freesat box shows the current channel with sound in the background
whilst scanning the guide.

Mike

In article , MuddyMike
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...

Any chance of improving your freeview reception?

Have you got a grouped aerial?

Has your area had power increased recently through DSO?

Or is it a trees and hills problem?

The freeview EPG beats freesat IMV as you can watch/listen to the current
channel whilst you are scanning the guide. AFAIIA there is no freesat box
that caches the EPG to let you do this.

We have already replaced the aerial with the biggest that the rigger could
find, and have a five channel booster box in the loft. A lot of the time the
we get a good picture, but no always. Sods law comes into play and the
picture is crap just when we want to watch something.

The questions about DSO and grouped aerials are important. If your bod
stuck up a wideband one and the channels broadcast by your transmitter
are in the newly extended group B (low) then you have lost 4-6dB of
precious signal just like that cos wideband aerials aren't optimised
like grouped ones and favour the high end. (A wideband aerial will have
a black plug in the back of the aerial extrusion.)

If you're pre-DSO then you'll be seeing a whacking improvement in signal
power when DSO happens in your area.

Enter your postcode into http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe? and
let us know the transmitter, the distance to you, broadcast channel
numbers and whether it's been DSO'd. Don't worry, the .exe in the link
is not a downloadable, it executes on the server, not your comp. There's
a good link to the topography or your TX path on there too, very
informative.

Our Humax freesat box shows the current channel with sound in the background
whilst scanning the guide.

Hmmn, I'll look again, it was a foxsat HDR box that I was looking at
when I thought that you got nothing at all. IIUC the EPG is broadcast
from a close but different satellite from the content hence why it's not
poss to view both at the same time.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

"fred" wrote in message news
In article , MuddyMike
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...

Enter your postcode into http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe? and let
us know the transmitter, the distance to you, broadcast channel numbers
and whether it's been DSO'd. Don't worry, the .exe in the link is not a
downloadable, it executes on the server, not your comp. There's a good
link to the topography or your TX path on there too, very informative.


This is what I get, all meaningless to me. I can't make out the colour of
the endcap, will take a picture a little later then perhaps yopu can advise
if we have the right type.

Postcode DL8 5AD

Transmitter 1 (PSB 1):
BBC A 2 (PSB 2):
D 3 & 4 A (COM 1):
SDN B (PSB 3):
BBC B C (COM 2):
Arqiva A D (COM 3):
Arqiva B Gp Pol OS grid ref. Field
dBµV/m Distance
miles Bearing
degrees Antenna
(suggestion) UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W Bilsdale West Moor 34 4k8 21 6k 31 6k 24 6k 27 6k 42 1k6 K H SE553962 35
28 83 Amplified extra hi-gain

Mike

In message on Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:13:08 +0100
fred wrote:

Enter your postcode into http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe? and
let us know the transmitter, the distance to you, broadcast channel
numbers and whether it's been DSO'd. Don't worry, the .exe in the link
is not a downloadable, it executes on the server, not your comp. There's
a good link to the topography or your TX path on there too, very
informative.


I haven't used Wolfbane but this site:

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/Audi...strialCalculat
or.php

or

http://tinyurl.com/32txwbo

shows the path to the transmitter overlaid on a map - you can drag the origin
to your precise location if, as usual, your house isn't in the centre of the
PostCode area.

From this you can use your local knowledge to see if there are any objects
blocking your view, such as trees, tall buildings, etc., that don't show up in
in a topography profile.

When discussing TV reception problems, it is useful to give a reasonable
accurate idea of your location as others may know of reception problems that
specifically affect you. Your PostCode with the last letter omitted should be
sufficient - it doesn't identify your address in any way, just the local area.
(In fact, the entire PostCode is sufficiently anonymous for most people.)

--

Terry

On 7/21/2011 1:35 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView.

Not on FreeView in my area. We only get 17-18 channels.

And there is an extra cost for transmitting via
satellite. Either requires a decent external aerial. The problem with
making it available free on satellite is it then becomes free to many who
don't pay any UK licence.

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In message on Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:13:08 +0100
fred wrote:

Enter your postcode into http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe? and
let us know the transmitter, the distance to you, broadcast channel
numbers and whether it's been DSO'd. Don't worry, the .exe in the link
is not a downloadable, it executes on the server, not your comp. There's
a good link to the topography or your TX path on there too, very
informative.


I haven't used Wolfbane but this site:

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/Audi...strialCalculat
or.php

or

http://tinyurl.com/32txwbo


That's interesting. At least the aerial is pointing in the right direction.
The first couple of pictures here show what's up the

http://share.ovi.com/album/Muddymike.Housechanges

Does it look like the correct one?

Mike

In message on Thu, 21 Jul
2011 15:42:44 +0100
MuddyMike wrote:

"fred" wrote in message news
In article , MuddyMike
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...

Enter your postcode into http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe? and let
us know the transmitter, the distance to you, broadcast channel numbers
and whether it's been DSO'd. Don't worry, the .exe in the link is not a
downloadable, it executes on the server, not your comp. There's a good
link to the topography or your TX path on there too, very informative.


This is what I get, all meaningless to me. I can't make out the colour of
the endcap, will take a picture a little later then perhaps yopu can advise
if we have the right type.


That only appears to show the current situation.

http://tinyurl.com/3wfhf52

also includes the post DSO situation which shows that you will need a wideband
aerial, rather than a grouped one.

The pre-DSO transmitter power levels are very low - between only 1.6 and 6kW -
but the good news is that they will rise considerably after DSO, to 50kW for
the COM muxes and 100kW for the PSB muxes. This should make quite a difference!

Assuming that your rigger has done the best possible (!) the best you can do
now is to wait for DSO, when things should improve considerably.

What sort of reception do your neighbours get? If it is much better than yours
it would usually point to a bad installation - all other things being equal -
but if they are experiencing similar problems - or worse - there would be no
point in spending more money now.

The bad news is that DSO doesn't happen at Bilsdale until September next year,
so you will have quite a wait ...

--

Terry

In message on Thu, 21 Jul 2011 17:03:44 +0100
S Viemeister wrote:

On 7/21/2011 1:35 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView.

Not on FreeView in my area. We only get 17-18 channels.



Presumably you are getting your signals from a relay station - these only
broadcast the 3 PSB muxes, so you wont see anything from the COM muxes.

Mike appears to be looking at Bilsdale, which is a main transmitter, so he will
receive everything that is available on Freeview

--

Terry

In article , MuddyMike
writes

"fred" wrote in message news
In article ,
MuddyMike
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...

Enter your postcode into http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe? and let
us know the transmitter, the distance to you, broadcast channel numbers
and whether it's been DSO'd. Don't worry, the .exe in the link is not a
downloadable, it executes on the server, not your comp. There's a good
link to the topography or your TX path on there too, very informative.


This is what I get, all meaningless to me. I can't make out the colour of
the endcap, will take a picture a little later then perhaps yopu can advise
if we have the right type.

Postcode DL8 5AD

Transmitter 1 (PSB 1):
BBC A 2 (PSB 2):
D 3 & 4 A (COM 1):
SDN B (PSB 3):
BBC B C (COM 2):
Arqiva A D (COM 3):
Arqiva B Gp Pol OS grid ref. Field
dBμV/m Distance
miles Bearing
degrees Antenna
(suggestion) UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W Bilsdale West Moor 34 4k8 21 6k 31 6k 24 6k 27 6k 42 1k6 K H SE553962 35
28 83 Amplified extra hi-gain

Ok, you're 28 miles from your transmitter so it's hard work to get a
nice signal from there. Good news is that you appear to have line of
sight to it so there's nothing geographical to interrupt your signal.

Pic of your path copied here (v clean):
http://picturepush.com/public/6145097

Also, you're pre-DSO on a transmitter with a very high planned boost to
power of about 20x come DSO in September.

Bottom line is that you should see a significant boost in performance
come September so I'd say hold off until then before making any
plans/changes.

On the wideband/grouped aerial business, unfortunately your transmitter
requires wideband (ish) and will continue to require it post DSO.

There are further tricks and tips for high gain on wideband using an
array such as this:
http://www.satellitewarehouse.co.uk/vision-stealth.html which is also
more immune to local impulse noise (important) but maybe wait & see what
September brings.

I would see a problem like this as a challenge but you can spend a fair
bit of money and get nowhere as I found when trying to pull in a signal
over this pre-DSO: http://picturepush.com/public/6145284 , that one went
to satellite.

--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On 7/21/2011 5:47 PM, Terry Casey wrote:
In on Thu, 21 Jul 2011 17:03:44 +0100
S wrote:

On 7/21/2011 1:35 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView.

Not on FreeView in my area. We only get 17-18 channels.



Presumably you are getting your signals from a relay station - these only
broadcast the 3 PSB muxes, so you wont see anything from the COM muxes.

Yes, it's a relay.

Mike appears to be looking at Bilsdale, which is a main transmitter, so he will
receive everything that is available on Freeview

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Jul 21, 11:19 am, tony sayer wrote:
In article , MuddyMike
scribeth thus

We use a Humax, Foxsat freesat box having got fed up with paying Sky and
getting very little we wanted to watch. The only disappointment is that
some
channels, Dave for instance that used to be available via Sky are not
available on Freesat but are available on digital. Sadly our digital
signal
is not very good so we are often unable to watch digital TV. The other
issue
is that when scanning through looking for what's on we now have to scan
two
programme guides instead of one and often find the prog we most prefer is
on
digital but the signal is bad and can't watch it.

Any suggestions, other than going back to Sky?

Mike

Yep!, complain to Dave TV that they ought to be free to air on
Freesat...

UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

----------------------------------------------------------

So on that basis GOLD, Alibi and Watch should also be FTA on freeview (and
sat)

But they aren't

tim

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
On 7/21/2011 5:47 PM, Terry Casey wrote:
In on Thu, 21 Jul 2011 17:03:44
+0100
S wrote:

On 7/21/2011 1:35 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView.

Not on FreeView in my area. We only get 17-18 channels.



Presumably you are getting your signals from a relay station - these only
broadcast the 3 PSB muxes, so you wont see anything from the COM muxes.

Yes, it's a relay.

And would you prefer more SD channels instead of the HD ones you are getting
(or about to get)?

tim

"fred" wrote in message news
In article , MuddyMike
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...

Any chance of improving your freeview reception?

Have you got a grouped aerial?

Has your area had power increased recently through DSO?

Or is it a trees and hills problem?

The freeview EPG beats freesat IMV as you can watch/listen to the
current
channel whilst you are scanning the guide. AFAIIA there is no freesat
box
that caches the EPG to let you do this.

We have already replaced the aerial with the biggest that the rigger could
find, and have a five channel booster box in the loft. A lot of the time
the
we get a good picture, but no always. Sods law comes into play and the
picture is crap just when we want to watch something.

The questions about DSO and grouped aerials are important. If your bod
stuck up a wideband one and the channels broadcast by your transmitter are
in the newly extended group B (low) then you have lost 4-6dB of precious
signal just like that cos wideband aerials aren't optimised like grouped
ones and favour the high end. (A wideband aerial will have a black plug in
the back of the aerial extrusion.)

Just had the aerial on the top of our block replaced because it wasn't
receiving all of the Muxes correctly.

The guy who installed it said that he went to their supplier for the correct
group aerial and they refused to supply one telling him that they were not
using them any more.

So to make the wideband one work he had to put a larger than expected amp on
it :-(

tim

On 7/21/2011 7:04 PM, tim.... wrote:
"S wrote
On 7/21/2011 5:47 PM, Terry Casey wrote:
S wrote:
On 7/21/2011 1:35 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView.

Not on FreeView in my area. We only get 17-18 channels.

Presumably you are getting your signals from a relay station - these only
broadcast the 3 PSB muxes, so you wont see anything from the COM muxes.

Yes, it's a relay.

And would you prefer more SD channels instead of the HD ones you are getting
(or about to get)?

That would depend on what material the channels present, rather than
whether or not they're HD.

In article , fred scribeth thus
In article , MuddyMike
writes

"fred" wrote in message news
In article ,
MuddyMike
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...

Enter your postcode into http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe? and let
us know the transmitter, the distance to you, broadcast channel numbers
and whether it's been DSO'd. Don't worry, the .exe in the link is not a
downloadable, it executes on the server, not your comp. There's a good
link to the topography or your TX path on there too, very informative.


This is what I get, all meaningless to me. I can't make out the colour of
the endcap, will take a picture a little later then perhaps yopu can advise
if we have the right type.

Postcode DL8 5AD

Transmitter 1 (PSB 1):
BBC A 2 (PSB 2):
D 3 & 4 A (COM 1):
SDN B (PSB 3):
BBC B C (COM 2):
Arqiva A D (COM 3):
Arqiva B Gp Pol OS grid ref. Field
dBμV/m Distance
miles Bearing
degrees Antenna
(suggestion) UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W UHF ERP
W Bilsdale West Moor 34 4k8 21 6k 31 6k 24 6k 27 6k 42 1k6 K H SE553962 35
28 83 Amplified extra hi-gain

Ok, you're 28 miles from your transmitter so it's hard work to get a
nice signal from there. Good news is that you appear to have line of
sight to it so there's nothing geographical to interrupt your signal.

Pic of your path copied here (v clean):
http://picturepush.com/public/6145097


Yes as maybe but in this path and coverage prediction there is a thing
known as "clutter" buildings and suchlike as well as threes etc all of
which make that nice clean earth terrain look anything but.

Good clutter models aren't cheap so you won't find them online...


Also, you're pre-DSO on a transmitter with a very high planned boost to
power of about 20x come DSO in September.

Bottom line is that you should see a significant boost in performance
come September so I'd say hold off until then before making any
plans/changes.

On the wideband/grouped aerial business, unfortunately your transmitter
requires wideband (ish) and will continue to require it post DSO.

There are further tricks and tips for high gain on wideband using an
array such as this:
http://www.satellitewarehouse.co.uk/vision-stealth.html which is also
more immune to local impulse noise (important) but maybe wait & see what
September brings.

I would see a problem like this as a challenge but you can spend a fair
bit of money and get nowhere as I found when trying to pull in a signal
over this pre-DSO: http://picturepush.com/public/6145284 , that one went
to satellite.


--
Tony Sayer

In article , MuddyMike
scribeth thus

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In message on Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:13:08 +0100
fred wrote:

Enter your postcode into http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe? and
let us know the transmitter, the distance to you, broadcast channel
numbers and whether it's been DSO'd. Don't worry, the .exe in the link
is not a downloadable, it executes on the server, not your comp. There's
a good link to the topography or your TX path on there too, very
informative.


I haven't used Wolfbane but this site:

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/Audi...estrialCalcula
t
or.php

or

http://tinyurl.com/32txwbo


That's interesting. At least the aerial is pointing in the right direction.
The first couple of pictures here show what's up the

http://share.ovi.com/album/Muddymike.Housechanges

Does it look like the correct one?

Mike



Can you now get that any higher. Generally height is the most important
factor in terrestrial TV reception ...
--
Tony Sayer

In message on Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:08:41 +0100
fred wrote:

Ok, you're 28 miles from your transmitter so it's hard work to get a
nice signal from there. Good news is that you appear to have line of
sight to it so there's nothing geographical to interrupt your signal.

Pic of your path copied here (v clean):
http://picturepush.com/public/6145097

Also, you're pre-DSO on a transmitter with a very high planned boost to
power of about 20x come DSO in September.

Bottom line is that you should see a significant boost in performance
come September so I'd say hold off until then before making any
plans/changes.


But, according to this:

http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=SE553962

DSO is in September NEXT year ...

--

Terry

In article ,
Terry Casey writes
In message on Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:08:41 +0100
fred wrote:

Ok, you're 28 miles from your transmitter so it's hard work to get a
nice signal from there. Good news is that you appear to have line of
sight to it so there's nothing geographical to interrupt your signal.

Pic of your path copied here (v clean):
http://picturepush.com/public/6145097

Also, you're pre-DSO on a transmitter with a very high planned boost to
power of about 20x come DSO in September.

Bottom line is that you should see a significant boost in performance
come September so I'd say hold off until then before making any
plans/changes.


But, according to this:

http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=SE553962

DSO is in September NEXT year ...

Ha! Thanks Terry, saw September and assumed _this_ year. What are those
boys doing? A major 500kW transmitter with DSO 14mths away still only
pumping out 6/1.5kW digital? I get the impression Yorkshire is a pretty
congested area signal wise and they are going a bit cagey.

In summary, sorry Mike you're fookd, FTA satellite is all you've got
until next year unless you pay.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On 21/07/11 13:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/07/2011 13:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView. And there is an extra cost for transmitting via
satellite. Either requires a decent external aerial. The problem with
making it available free on satellite is it then becomes free to many who
don't pay any UK licence.


If you think how many kWHrs are used to power terrestial transmitters, I
doubt they're much cheaper than leasing a satellite transponder.

The power used to operate terrestrial TV transmitters pales into
insignificance compared to the power used to launch a satellite into space...

On 21/07/11 17:38, MuddyMike wrote:

That's interesting. At least the aerial is pointing in the right direction.
The first couple of pictures here show what's up the

http://share.ovi.com/album/Muddymike.Housechanges

Does it look like the correct one?


www.tvretune.co.uk should be able to give you a reasonable estimate of what
you should receive pre and post switchover by entering your postcode.

If anything, the estimates are a little pessimistic.

On 22/07/2011 08:34, funkyoldcortina wrote:
On 21/07/11 13:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/07/2011 13:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView. And there is an extra cost for
transmitting via
satellite. Either requires a decent external aerial. The problem with
making it available free on satellite is it then becomes free to many
who
don't pay any UK licence.


If you think how many kWHrs are used to power terrestial transmitters, I
doubt they're much cheaper than leasing a satellite transponder.

The power used to operate terrestrial TV transmitters pales into
insignificance compared to the power used to launch a satellite into
space...

Not according to numerous articles. Googled and found 2, though I admit
they written by interested parties. However, just look how much CO2 is
produced by a few terrestial transmitters!! Something that can easily
be verified.

http://www.satellitetoday.com/via/gl...tes_22875.html
http://www.esoa.net/Green-Satellites.htm

Fredxx wrote:
On 22/07/2011 08:34, funkyoldcortina wrote:
On 21/07/11 13:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/07/2011 13:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView. And there is an extra cost for
transmitting via
satellite. Either requires a decent external aerial. The problem with
making it available free on satellite is it then becomes free to many
who
don't pay any UK licence.


If you think how many kWHrs are used to power terrestial transmitters, I
doubt they're much cheaper than leasing a satellite transponder.

The power used to operate terrestrial TV transmitters pales into
insignificance compared to the power used to launch a satellite into
space...

Not according to numerous articles. Googled and found 2, though I admit
they written by interested parties. However, just look how much CO2 is
produced by a few terrestial transmitters!! Something that can easily
be verified.

http://www.satellitetoday.com/via/gl...tes_22875.html
http://www.esoa.net/Green-Satellites.htm

Never confuse power with energy.

fred writes:

The freeview EPG beats freesat IMV as you can watch/listen to the
current channel whilst you are scanning the guide. AFAIIA there is no
freesat box that caches the EPG to let you do this.

If my memory's correct, the EPG is on a different satellite. So if you
had a suitably fancy system you could get it from one LNB and TV while
using a second LNB & TV to watch programs.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

On 21/07/2011 19:08, tim.... wrote:
wrote in message news
In articleQY2dnQ7nn7MMsbXTnZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@brightvie w.com, MuddyMike
writes

wrote in message ...

Any chance of improving your freeview reception?

Have you got a grouped aerial?

Has your area had power increased recently through DSO?

Or is it a trees and hills problem?

The freeview EPG beats freesat IMV as you can watch/listen to the
current
channel whilst you are scanning the guide. AFAIIA there is no freesat
box
that caches the EPG to let you do this.

We have already replaced the aerial with the biggest that the rigger could
find, and have a five channel booster box in the loft. A lot of the time
the
we get a good picture, but no always. Sods law comes into play and the
picture is crap just when we want to watch something.

The questions about DSO and grouped aerials are important. If your bod
stuck up a wideband one and the channels broadcast by your transmitter are
in the newly extended group B (low) then you have lost 4-6dB of precious
signal just like that cos wideband aerials aren't optimised like grouped
ones and favour the high end. (A wideband aerial will have a black plug in
the back of the aerial extrusion.)

Just had the aerial on the top of our block replaced because it wasn't
receiving all of the Muxes correctly.

The guy who installed it said that he went to their supplier for the correct
group aerial and they refused to supply one telling him that they were not
using them any more.

So to make the wideband one work he had to put a larger than expected amp on
it :-(

tim




How about changing to Freesat, they don't have quite as many channels as
freesat, but the reception is great, as you already have a dish for sky
all you need is the tuner.

--
Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 09:45:53 +0100, "MuddyMike"
wrote:

The other issue
is that when scanning through looking for what's on we now have to scan two
programme guides instead of one and often find the prog we most prefer is on
digital but the signal is bad and can't watch it.

I have been using Teleprompter on PC and laptop recently:-
http://www.adamdawes.com/windows/win_tellyprompter.html
It does not explicitly list freesat but by using some channels from
the sky listing I have made a reasonable favourites list.
A lot quicker than using the two EPGs on the TV - although you still
have to go there to mark a recording of course.

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
On 7/21/2011 7:04 PM, tim.... wrote:
"S wrote
On 7/21/2011 5:47 PM, Terry Casey wrote:
S wrote:
On 7/21/2011 1:35 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded
by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView.

Not on FreeView in my area. We only get 17-18 channels.

Presumably you are getting your signals from a relay station - these
only
broadcast the 3 PSB muxes, so you wont see anything from the COM muxes.

Yes, it's a relay.

And would you prefer more SD channels instead of the HD ones you are
getting
(or about to get)?

That would depend on what material the channels present, rather than
whether or not they're HD.

But you know that choice. It's the ones that you are not getting that the
rest of us do.

tim

"Moonraker" wrote in message
...
On 21/07/2011 19:08, tim.... wrote:
wrote in message news
In articleQY2dnQ7nn7MMsbXTnZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@brightvie w.com, MuddyMike
writes

wrote in message ...

Any chance of improving your freeview reception?

Have you got a grouped aerial?

Has your area had power increased recently through DSO?

Or is it a trees and hills problem?

The freeview EPG beats freesat IMV as you can watch/listen to the
current
channel whilst you are scanning the guide. AFAIIA there is no freesat
box
that caches the EPG to let you do this.

We have already replaced the aerial with the biggest that the rigger
could
find, and have a five channel booster box in the loft. A lot of the
time
the
we get a good picture, but no always. Sods law comes into play and the
picture is crap just when we want to watch something.

The questions about DSO and grouped aerials are important. If your bod
stuck up a wideband one and the channels broadcast by your transmitter
are
in the newly extended group B (low) then you have lost 4-6dB of precious
signal just like that cos wideband aerials aren't optimised like grouped
ones and favour the high end. (A wideband aerial will have a black plug
in
the back of the aerial extrusion.)

Just had the aerial on the top of our block replaced because it wasn't
receiving all of the Muxes correctly.

The guy who installed it said that he went to their supplier for the
correct
group aerial and they refused to supply one telling him that they were
not
using them any more.

So to make the wideband one work he had to put a larger than expected amp
on
it :-(

tim




How about changing to Freesat, they don't have quite as many channels as
freesat, but the reception is great, as you already have a dish for sky
all you need is the tuner.

Because I already have 200 pounds invested in freeview recorders

tim

In article , Fredxx
scribeth thus
On 22/07/2011 08:34, funkyoldcortina wrote:
On 21/07/11 13:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/07/2011 13:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.

They are FTA via FreeView. And there is an extra cost for
transmitting via
satellite. Either requires a decent external aerial. The problem with
making it available free on satellite is it then becomes free to many
who
don't pay any UK licence.


If you think how many kWHrs are used to power terrestial transmitters, I
doubt they're much cheaper than leasing a satellite transponder.

The power used to operate terrestrial TV transmitters pales into
insignificance compared to the power used to launch a satellite into
space...

Not according to numerous articles. Googled and found 2, though I admit
they written by interested parties. However, just look how much CO2 is
produced by a few terrestial transmitters!! Something that can easily
be verified.

http://www.satellitetoday.com/via/gl...tes_22875.html
http://www.esoa.net/Green-Satellites.htm

And from that first link...


Some argue that digital television transmitters produce significantly
greater carbon emissions than satellite television systems, because
satellites rely on solar power for most of their power and thus provide
a greener alternative to expensive terrestrial buildouts. A U.K. trade
group, €œUK Space,€� estimated in 2006 that just the 50 most powerful
analog television transmitters in that country (out of a total of 1,400)
required 54 megawatts of electricity, representing a quarter of a
million tons of CO2 per year that could be replaced by satellites that
essentially use no terrestrial electricity at all.


55 analogue Tx's requiring 54 megawatts?..

Don't quite think so...

--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Fredxx
scribeth thus
On 22/07/2011 08:34, funkyoldcortina wrote:
On 21/07/11 13:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/07/2011 13:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at wrote:
UKTV. Half owned by the BBC (OK, the worldwide arm) so all the more
reason it should be FTA, or at least those progs originally funded by
license payers.
They are FTA via FreeView. And there is an extra cost for
transmitting via
satellite. Either requires a decent external aerial. The problem with
making it available free on satellite is it then becomes free to many
who
don't pay any UK licence.

If you think how many kWHrs are used to power terrestial transmitters, I
doubt they're much cheaper than leasing a satellite transponder.
The power used to operate terrestrial TV transmitters pales into
insignificance compared to the power used to launch a satellite into
space...
Not according to numerous articles. Googled and found 2, though I admit
they written by interested parties. However, just look how much CO2 is
produced by a few terrestial transmitters!! Something that can easily
be verified.

http://www.satellitetoday.com/via/gl...tes_22875.html
http://www.esoa.net/Green-Satellites.htm

And from that first link...


Some argue that digital television transmitters produce significantly
greater carbon emissions than satellite television systems, because
satellites rely on solar power for most of their power and thus provide
a greener alternative to expensive terrestrial buildouts. A U.K. trade
group, €œUK Space,€� estimated in 2006 that just the 50 most powerful
analog television transmitters in that country (out of a total of 1,400)
required 54 megawatts of electricity, representing a quarter of a
million tons of CO2 per year that could be replaced by satellites that
essentially use no terrestrial electricity at all.


55 analogue Tx's requiring 54 megawatts?..

Don't quite think so...

Probably isn't far off..each transmitter has several; 100KW units, and
they aren't 100% efficient.

Of course the energy over say 25 years of a satellites lifetime has to
be compared with the energy to put the satellites up in the first place...

And put in the context of the UK population as a whole. where it
represents less than a watt per person.

So just turn the lights off, watch Sky, and save the planet.

http://www.satellitetoday.com/via/gl...tes_22875.html
http://www.esoa.net/Green-Satellites.htm

And from that first link...


Some argue that digital television transmitters produce significantly
greater carbon emissions than satellite television systems, because
satellites rely on solar power for most of their power and thus provide
a greener alternative to expensive terrestrial buildouts. A U.K. trade
group, €œUK Space,€� estimated in 2006 that just the 50 most powerful
analog television transmitters in that country (out of a total of 1,400)
required 54 megawatts of electricity, representing a quarter of a
million tons of CO2 per year that could be replaced by satellites that
essentially use no terrestrial electricity at all.


55 analogue Tx's requiring 54 megawatts?..

Don't quite think so...

Probably isn't far off..each transmitter has several; 100KW units,

Don't think Pye TVT or Marconi ever made more than a 40 kW one at most
and those that were .. were very few and far between usually for the USA
market..


and
they aren't 100% efficient.

Remember or did you see that article on the Sudbury transmitter recently
when it was a 250 kW ERP analogue one. Two 6.25 kW transmitters used?..

Around 50% efficient but not on the go flat out all the time .. Course
the digital ones, valve engined are even more efficient...


Of course the energy over say 25 years of a satellites lifetime has to
be compared with the energy to put the satellites up in the first place...

And put in the context of the UK population as a whole. where it
represents less than a watt per person.

So just turn the lights off, watch Sky, and save the planet.



And do switch off your Sky box, those on standby do add together for
quite a lot of power..


--
Tony Sayer

On 22/07/2011 18:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
tony sayer wrote:

55 analogue Tx's requiring 54 megawatts?..

Don't quite think so...

Probably isn't far off..each transmitter has several; 100KW units, and
they aren't 100% efficient.

Remember that the power output figures quoted TV transmitters are their
ERP, not the actual transmitter power (which will usually be many times
smaller due to the gain of the aerial).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 21/07/2011 15:13, fred wrote:

The questions about DSO and grouped aerials are important. If your bod
stuck up a wideband one and the channels broadcast by your transmitter
are in the newly extended group B (low) then you have lost 4-6dB of
precious signal just like that cos wideband aerials aren't optimised
like grouped ones and favour the high end. (A wideband aerial will have
a black plug in the back of the aerial extrusion.)

Yup grouped aerials are particularly important for group A and B
transmitters - especially in difficult locations.

If you're pre-DSO then you'll be seeing a whacking improvement in signal
power when DSO happens in your area.

Indeed - we saw a rise of 19db overnight on the muxes that have just
gone full power.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/