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#1
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps
repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received |
#2
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 4:51*pm, Charlie wrote:
Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". *It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. *Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. *He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. *I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to *mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). *I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT |
#3
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Charlie wrote:
A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be related to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come undoen in a socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at the CU end. A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the fault, or the general area in which to look. £600 is way over the top in my view. That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces and switches in the kitchen. Where are you? There are some electricians on here who may be able to help. Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. |
#4
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 5:12*pm, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51*pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". *It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. *Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. *He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. *I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to *mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). *I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT Tabby, Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first one. Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing earthed). That is completely illegal? I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted here. Thanks for you advice Charlie |
#5
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 5:15*pm, (A.Lee) wrote:
Charlie wrote: A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). *I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be related to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come undoen in a socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at the CU end. A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the fault, or the general area in which to look. 600 is way over the top in my view. That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces and switches in the kitchen. Where are you? There are some electricians on here who may be able to help. Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. Alan, My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me. Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. I appreciate the advice, at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do. Do you think there are two separate problems (no power to the "island" & a separate earth to live/neutral somewhere) or is it most likely to be one fault causing both? Thanks Charlie |
#6
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT Tabby, Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first one. Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing earthed). That is completely illegal? I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted here. Thanks for you advice Charlie I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit. -- Adam |
#7
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. To be fair, he phoned an electrician. What more do you want him to do? -- Adam |
#8
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 9:21*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote: Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT Tabby, Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first one. Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing earthed). *That is completely illegal? I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted here. Thanks for you advice Charlie I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit. -- Adam I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. My understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit. I'm not sure exactly what he did. Nothing visible on the CU. Did he just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did he just disconnect the RCD? Charlie |
#9
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RCD repeatedly tripping
"Charlie" wrote in message ... On Apr 6, 5:15 pm, (A.Lee) wrote: Charlie wrote: A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be related to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come undoen in a socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at the CU end. A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the fault, or the general area in which to look. 600 is way over the top in my view. That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces and switches in the kitchen. Where are you? There are some electricians on here who may be able to help. Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. Alan, My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me. Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. I appreciate the advice, at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do. Do you think there are two separate problems (no power to the "island" & a separate earth to live/neutral somewhere) or is it most likely to be one fault causing both? Thanks Charlie For your own protection when solved you need a periodic inspection certificate, and renew it each year. Come the (hopefully never happening) fatality the court will look at you as having horns and a forked tongue - as a landlord you need to be whiter than white. I speak as a landlord myself! AWEM |
#10
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Charlie" wrote in message ... On Apr 6, 5:15 pm, (A.Lee) wrote: Charlie wrote: A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be related to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come undoen in a socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at the CU end. A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the fault, or the general area in which to look. 600 is way over the top in my view. That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces and switches in the kitchen. Where are you? There are some electricians on here who may be able to help. Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. Alan, My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me. Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. I appreciate the advice, at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do. Do you think there are two separate problems (no power to the "island" & a separate earth to live/neutral somewhere) or is it most likely to be one fault causing both? Thanks Charlie For your own protection when solved you need a periodic inspection certificate, and renew it each year. Come the (hopefully never happening) fatality the court will look at you as having horns and a forked tongue - as a landlord you need to be whiter than white. I speak as a landlord myself! How can you justify having an annual PIR? -- Adam |
#11
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:21 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT Tabby, Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first one. Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing earthed). That is completely illegal? I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted here. Thanks for you advice Charlie I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit. -- Adam I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. My understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit. I'm not sure exactly what he did. Nothing visible on the CU. Did he just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did he just disconnect the RCD? Without looking inside the CU I do not know! He might have disconnected the earths from the kitchen ring inside the CU (and if he has I would like to see him shot) -- Adam |
#12
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 9:44*pm, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote: "Charlie" wrote in message ... On Apr 6, 5:15 pm, (A.Lee) wrote: Charlie wrote: A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? It could be any number of things, but it is pretty certain to be related to the kitchen ring. Cable snapped/worn through, cable come undoen in a socket and touching another terminal. Even a fault at the CU end. A few tests on the circuit would soon pin down the fault, or the general area in which to look. 600 is way over the top in my view. That price would buy a consumer unit change, and new socket faces and switches in the kitchen. Where are you? There are some electricians on here who may be able to help. Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. Alan, My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me. Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. *I appreciate the advice, at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do. Do you think there are two separate problems (no power to the "island" & a separate earth to live/neutral somewhere) or is it most likely to be one fault causing both? Thanks Charlie For your own protection when solved you need a periodic inspection certificate, and renew it each year. Come the (hopefully never happening) fatality the court will look at you as having horns and a forked tongue - as a landlord you need to be whiter than white. I speak as a landlord myself! AWEM Sure makes sense. |
#13
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 9:52*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote: Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 9:21 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem.. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT Tabby, Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first one. Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing earthed). That is completely illegal? I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted here. Thanks for you advice Charlie I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit. -- Adam I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. *My understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit. I'm not sure exactly what he did. *Nothing visible on the CU. *Did he just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did he just disconnect the RCD? Without looking inside the CU I do not Ok, just interested to know what possible/likely. Presumably both possible. He might have disconnected the earths from the kitchen ring inside the CU (and if he has I would like to see him shot) -- Adam Yeah, I was pretty surprised to find that the downstairs ring wasn't earthed. Didn't seem right. |
#14
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:52 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 9:21 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT Tabby, Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first one. Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing earthed). That is completely illegal? I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted here. Thanks for you advice Charlie I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit. -- Adam I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. My understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit. I'm not sure exactly what he did. Nothing visible on the CU. Did he just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did he just disconnect the RCD? Without looking inside the CU I do not Ok, just interested to know what possible/likely. Presumably both possible. A bypassed RCD would still leave the circuits that it powers ON if the RCD is turned off. He might have disconnected the earths from the kitchen ring inside the CU (and if he has I would like to see him shot) Yeah, I was pretty surprised to find that the downstairs ring wasn't earthed. Didn't seem right. Just checking. Is there an RCD or is it an MCB that was tripping? There is a big important difference. -- Adam |
#15
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 10:54*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote: Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 9:52 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 9:21 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for 600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT Tabby, Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first one. Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing earthed). That is completely illegal? I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted here. Thanks for you advice Charlie I would have expected the electrician to have discovered that the sockets were not earthed and isolated that circuit. -- Adam I presume the sockets were earthed prior to the fault arising. My understanding is that they are now not earthed following his visit. I'm not sure exactly what he did. Nothing visible on the CU. Did he just disconnect the circuit to prevent the RCD from tripping or did he just disconnect the RCD? Without looking inside the CU I do not Ok, just interested to know what possible/likely. Presumably both possible. A bypassed RCD would still leave the circuits that it powers ON if the RCD is turned off. He might have disconnected the earths from the kitchen ring inside the CU (and if he has I would like to see him shot) Yeah, I was pretty surprised to find that the downstairs ring wasn't earthed. Didn't seem right. Just checking. Is there an RCD or is it an MCB that was tripping? There is a big important difference. -- Adam He said it was the RCD, agreed big difference if it was the MCB |
#16
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 9:15*pm, Charlie wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:12*pm, Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51*pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". *It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. *Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. *He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. *I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to *mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). *I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT Tabby, Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first one. Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing earthed). *That is completely illegal? I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted here. Thanks for you advice Charlie If the info you posted is accurate, what he's done is criminal and dangerous. An RCD tripping usually means there's a live to earth fault. What stops people getting fried in these situations are a) the earth wiring b) the RCD And IIUC this berk's simply disconnected/bypassed both those! In all seriousness, if you dont act ASAP on this situation your tenant can get a nasty shock, and if they're unlucky die, and you could land in jail. NT |
#17
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 9:23*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote: Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. To be fair, he phoned an electrician. What more do you want him to do? Enter the property at the first possible opportunity and disconnect the faulty circuit. NT |
#18
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:15 pm, Charlie wrote: On Apr 6, 5:12 pm, Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. Re payment, I wouldnt pay the idiot a penny. What he's done is dangerous, illegal and remarkably stupid. I'd tell him to sue me, but point out that any court would be a lot more interested in what he'd done than any payment due. The first thing I'd do is identify the unsafe circuit and disconnect it. NT Tabby, Thanks for your post, glad I went up to check now. I'll get another electrician first thing - just hope he's more reputable then the first one. Can I just clarify - how the other electrician left it (with nothing earthed). That is completely illegal? I'm not an electrician and certainly no expert, hence why I posted here. Thanks for you advice Charlie If the info you posted is accurate, what he's done is criminal and dangerous. An RCD tripping usually means there's a live to earth fault. What stops people getting fried in these situations are a) the earth wiring b) the RCD And IIUC this berk's simply disconnected/bypassed both those! In all seriousness, if you dont act ASAP on this situation your tenant can get a nasty shock, and if they're unlucky die, and you could land in jail. No. The electrician would go to jail. -- Adam |
#19
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Tabby wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:23 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for £600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. To be fair, he phoned an electrician. What more do you want him to do? Enter the property at the first possible opportunity and disconnect the faulty circuit. That was the electricians job. -- Adam |
#20
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 7, 1:46*am, "ARWadsworth"
wrote: Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 9:23 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: Tabby wrote: On Apr 6, 4:51 pm, Charlie wrote: Got a call from my tenant saying the "the switch in the fuse box keeps repeatedly tripping". It was just the main downstairs ring that was affected, the other circuits and lights were ok. Got her to unplug all the devices and she said the problem was still there. As I don't live that close to the property I decided to call an electrician to have a look. He said that he was not able to identify the problem but had bypassed the RCD to restore power temporarily until a permanent fix could be found. He also emailed me a quote for 600 for two man days work to identify the problem. I decided to visit the property last night just to make sure I was happy the tennant and the house was safe. I tested a few of the sockets with a socket tester and it showed that none of them was earthed. I also managed to establish that the fridge which is located in the middle of the kitchen "island" was not receiving any power. IIRC when I tiled the kitchen floor there is a spur to the island from a JB under one of the tiles (don't ask - I didn't want to mess around with the existing electrics). So maybe there could be problem with the JB surrounded by tile cement / concrete? A couple of questions do I have two separate problems here? 1. No power to the kitchen "island" 2. An earthed live or neutral some on the ring (or possibly even an appliance that wasn't unplugged). I guess it's possible that there's a spur that we don't know about that something is plugged into, or a mouse has chewed through a wire Are the problems are related? Is the quote from the electrician reasonable? Any help gratefully received This is exactly the sort of situation that puts landlords in prison. Grow up, and provide your tenant with something legal & safe. And do it now. To be fair, he phoned an electrician. What more do you want him to do? Enter the property at the first possible opportunity and disconnect the faulty circuit. That was the electricians job. It was. The landlord _is_ aware that the installation is now in a dangerous state, and has a legal responsibility to provide a safe house. Thus any failure to act and act without delay renders the landlord liable. Given what appears to be a lack of electrical skills, an emergency callout is really the only way I can see to remove the risk to the landlord. NT |
#21
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 6, 9:18*pm, Charlie wrote:
My postcode is AL5 if anyone wants to private message me. Otherwise I'll get someone in first thing. *I appreciate the advice, at least I know what I should be expecting the electrician to do. Mark of 'Current Solutions' (07837 039045) was sub-contracted by our builders to do the electrical work on our extension build in Harpenden a couple of years ago, and we were certainly satisfied with their work. (friendly bunch too).- you could try giving them a call if you're still looking. Mike |
#22
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RCD repeatedly tripping
"John Rumm" wrote in message ... I would expect its the electrician with his nuts on the block here. If the landlord acted in good faith - got a pro in promptly, then he is beyond reproach. He can't be realistically expected to have the skills or knowledge to go and double check the work of the electrician. Its only luck in this case that he does, coupled with the electrician admitting to not having done the job asked. The landlord needs to act though, he knows of the danger and will be responsible if something happens. The electrician also needs seeing to, but the problem needs to be made safe ASAP. |
#23
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RCD repeatedly tripping
dennis@home wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message ... I would expect its the electrician with his nuts on the block here. If the landlord acted in good faith - got a pro in promptly, then he is beyond reproach. He can't be realistically expected to have the skills or knowledge to go and double check the work of the electrician. Its only luck in this case that he does, coupled with the electrician admitting to not having done the job asked. The landlord needs to act though, he knows of the danger and will be responsible if something happens. The landlord has acted. He asked a question on this newsgroup and he got some good answers. The fact that part of the question was about about the competence of the electrician he employed are relevant. I cannot see the landlord leaving his house in this situation for long. The electrician also needs seeing to, but the problem needs to be made safe ASAP. Indeed it needs to be made safe, but not by the cowboy electrician who has already looked at the installation. Just removing the MCB would be enough to make it safe in most cases. -- Adam |
#24
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 7, 7:08*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote: dennis@home wrote: "John Rumm" wrote in message ... I would expect its the electrician with his nuts on the block here. If the landlord acted in good faith - got a pro in promptly, then he is beyond reproach. He can't be realistically expected to have the skills or knowledge to go and double check the work of the electrician. Its only luck in this case that he does, coupled with the electrician admitting to not having done the job asked. The landlord needs to act though, he knows of the danger and will be responsible if something happens. The landlord has acted. He asked a question on this newsgroup and he got some good answers. The fact that part of the question was about about the competence of the electrician he employed are relevant. I cannot see the landlord leaving his house in this situation for long. The electrician also needs seeing to, but the problem needs to be made safe ASAP. Indeed it needs to be made safe, but not by the cowboy electrician who has already looked at the installation. Just removing the MCB would be enough to make it safe in most cases. -- Adam Electrician is coming asap - will post back when it's sorted. |
#25
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RCD repeatedly tripping
On Apr 8, 8:36*am, Charlie wrote:
On Apr 7, 7:08*pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: dennis@home wrote: "John Rumm" wrote in message ... I would expect its the electrician with his nuts on the block here. If the landlord acted in good faith - got a pro in promptly, then he is beyond reproach. He can't be realistically expected to have the skills or knowledge to go and double check the work of the electrician. Its only luck in this case that he does, coupled with the electrician admitting to not having done the job asked. The landlord needs to act though, he knows of the danger and will be responsible if something happens. The landlord has acted. He asked a question on this newsgroup and he got some good answers. The fact that part of the question was about about the competence of the electrician he employed are relevant. I cannot see the landlord leaving his house in this situation for long. The electrician also needs seeing to, but the problem needs to be made safe ASAP. Indeed it needs to be made safe, but not by the cowboy electrician who has already looked at the installation. Just removing the MCB would be enough to make it safe in most cases. -- Adam Electrician is coming asap - will post back when it's sorted. Sorry for the late post back. I got a second electrician who around and have a got a clearer idea of what went wrong. 1. There was a faulty face plate which was causing a problem. 2. There is still an intermittent fault on the downstairs ring which he has now put on it's own separate RCD (not sure if I have explained this correctly but it now trips only this circuit and not the whole house) 3. He has had problems, despite a number of visits to diagnose exactly what is causing the intermittent fault. It seems to be a neutral/ earth connection somewhere. This has been made worse by the fact that the "ring is not a ring". It's seems to be some sort of snowman/ figure of eight (probably caused when the rear extension was added by the previous owner). 4. I have since had some floorboards up and found a number of junction boxes/spurs which might help in simplifying the circuit and turning it into a radial which will aid the fault diagnosis. 5. With regards to the previous electrician. The new sockets test I used was fault. It said all the sockets in my own flat were not earthed either. The house is in fact correctly earthed. 6. However the previous electrician did move the downstairs "ring" on to a 32amp fuse - which obviously is a cause for concern. Will post back when I have more info. |
#26
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RCD repeatedly tripping
Charlie wrote:
Electrician is coming asap - will post back when it's sorted. Sorry for the late post back. I got a second electrician who around and have a got a clearer idea of what went wrong. 1. There was a faulty face plate which was causing a problem. 2. There is still an intermittent fault on the downstairs ring which he has now put on it's own separate RCD (not sure if I have explained this correctly but it now trips only this circuit and not the whole house) Couldbe an RCBO but yes it makes sense. 3. He has had problems, despite a number of visits to diagnose exactly what is causing the intermittent fault. It seems to be a neutral/ earth connection somewhere. This has been made worse by the fact that the "ring is not a ring". It's seems to be some sort of snowman/ figure of eight (probably caused when the rear extension was added by the previous owner). I would have expected a megger to show this fault. However he seems to know what he is doing. 4. I have since had some floorboards up and found a number of junction boxes/spurs which might help in simplifying the circuit and turning it into a radial which will aid the fault diagnosis. 5. With regards to the previous electrician. The new sockets test I used was fault. It said all the sockets in my own flat were not earthed either. The house is in fact correctly earthed. Whoops. 6. However the previous electrician did move the downstairs "ring" on to a 32amp fuse - which obviously is a cause for concern. An allowable bypass if the sockets are correctly earthed and it was just a tempjob. Will post back when I have more info. Ta -- Adam |
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