OK... so this is a little embarassing...

Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
wiping. [sorry for the details]

I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
didn't feel any objects there.

The toilet itself is a regular gravit flush one, maybe 5-10 years
old. I can't see the model number.

Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?

I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
the last 30 years

Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...

do all of your toilets do this?

Try flushing using a bucket of water. Does it flush OK this way?

If not theres a clog, and it never hurts to run a toilet auger down the
trap.

If it flushes ok using a bucket does the water kinda swirl around
without much force?

hard water can clog the interior passages of the toilet and cause this.
the good news its easily fixed.

take off the tank lid, is the water level near the top of the dip tube
like it should be? does the water flow out well when flushed?

i am certain we can help after we find out a bit more

" writes:

do all of your toilets do this?
NO. Just the one on the 3rd floor.

Try flushing using a bucket of water. Does it flush OK this way?

When it is clogged, I have tried filling the bowl all the way to the
brim to try to let "gravity" work, but it still doesn't clear.

When are you suggesting I use a bucket? If I use it before it clogs, I
won't know whether it would have clogged without the bucket. If I use
it after a clog, isn't that the same as just filling the bowl with water

Sometimes filling the bowl, causes it to clear but most of the time, I
need the plunger to clear it.

If not theres a clog, and it never hurts to run a toilet auger down the
trap.

I have tried the closet augur without success.


If it flushes ok using a bucket does the water kinda swirl around
without much force?

Unless clogged (or partially clogged) it seems to be ok.

hard water can clog the interior passages of the toilet and cause this.
the good news its easily fixed.

take off the tank lid, is the water level near the top of the dip tube
like it should be? does the water flow out well when flushed?

YES. Seems to work fine.


i am certain we can help after we find out a bit more
THANKS.

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:31:13 GMT, crapper wrote:

OK... so this is a little embarassing...
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
.. . .
Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...

Try dumping a bucket of water instead of flushing with the
handle. If the problem goes away, then your issue is
upstream of the bowl. If it doesn't, then the issue is
downstream of the bowl.

Goedjn writes:

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:31:13 GMT, crapper wrote:

OK... so this is a little embarassing...
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
. . .
Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...

Try dumping a bucket of water instead of flushing with the
handle. If the problem goes away, then your issue is
upstream of the bowl. If it doesn't, then the issue is
downstream of the bowl.

Well, when it is clogged, I have tried filling the bowl to the brim
(which should be as good as a bucket full, right?). Some of the time
the extra head of pressure clears it but most of the time I still need
the trusty plunger.

If you are saying that I should try the bucket *before* I get a clog,
how will I know whether the bucket helped or whether it would not have
clogged anyway?

Well, when it is clogged, I have tried filling the bowl to the brim
(which should be as good as a bucket full, right?). Some of the time
the extra head of pressure clears it but most of the time I still need
the trusty plunger.

If you are saying that I should try the bucket *before* I get a clog,
how will I know whether the bucket helped or whether it would not have
clogged anyway?

Ok, I think you have successfully demonstrated that the problem
is *NOT* insufficient flow from the tank to the bowl.

Which means that you have to drain and pull the toilet
itself, and check IT for obstructions, and look down the
waste pipe and see if there's either standing water or
an obstruction there. If that in turn doesn't reveal
the source of the problem, have someone come and
snake the main drain.

Goedjn writes:

Well, when it is clogged, I have tried filling the bowl to the brim
(which should be as good as a bucket full, right?). Some of the time
the extra head of pressure clears it but most of the time I still need
the trusty plunger.

If you are saying that I should try the bucket *before* I get a clog,
how will I know whether the bucket helped or whether it would not have
clogged anyway?

Ok, I think you have successfully demonstrated that the problem
is *NOT* insufficient flow from the tank to the bowl.

Which means that you have to drain and pull the toilet
itself, and check IT for obstructions, and look down the
waste pipe and see if there's either standing water or
an obstruction there. If that in turn doesn't reveal
the source of the problem, have someone come and
snake the main drain.

Sounds like I have a fun project for the weekend...

I imagine the problem shouldn't be in the main drain since the
bathrooms on the 2nd floor all drain properly.

Based on feedback here, it sounds like the problem is either in the
trap (such as a small obstruction missed by my closet augur) or in the
drain pipe connecting the 3rd floor toilet with the 2nd floor drain
plumbing.

- Is it also true that it is unlikely to be a vent problem since the
blockages can be total and sustained even when the bowl is filled
with water? (i.e., a vent issue would just slow drainage)

- Can someone tell me what are the code requirements on toilet drains?
e.g., min diamater pipe width, maximum number of bends (if any),
etc.

Goedjn writes:
Well, when it is clogged, I have tried filling the bowl to the brim
(which should be as good as a bucket full, right?). Some of the time
the extra head of pressure clears it but most of the time I still need
the trusty plunger.

If you are saying that I should try the bucket *before* I get a clog,
how will I know whether the bucket helped or whether it would not have
clogged anyway?

Ok, I think you have successfully demonstrated that the problem
is *NOT* insufficient flow from the tank to the bowl.

One more "interesting" observation.
Sometimes when flushing, the solids will first appear to go down the
trap, then "regurgitate" up into the bowl and then drain back down
again. This does not always happen.

Does this indicate anything?

One more "interesting" observation.
Sometimes when flushing, the solids will first appear to go down the
trap, then "regurgitate" up into the bowl and then drain back down
again. This does not always happen.

Does this indicate anything?


YES! It indicates the amount f water entering the bowl is marginal. So
your not getting enough OMPH to get past the trap inside the toilet and
start the suction of the flush. How toilets actually flush is pushing
enough water by rim holes of bowl ad the jet in the bottom of the bowl
to start the flush, vacuum finishes the job.

I am sure acid would fix it!

However since you like I was are skeptical.....

For the next week NEVER flush by pushing the lever!! NOT ONCE!

!!!!!ONLY FLUSH BY DUMPING A FULL BUCKET OF WATER INTO THE BOWL!!!

IF you get no clogs this PROVES its needs acid. and honestly its not as
dangerous as it sounds.

Again If the toilet flushes good using a bucket of water then the
plumbing downstream is fine.

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:31:13 GMT, crapper wrote:

OK... so this is a little embarassing...

Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
wiping. [sorry for the details]

I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
didn't feel any objects there.

The toilet itself is a regular gravit flush one, maybe 5-10 years
old. I can't see the model number.

Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?

I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
the last 30 years

Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...
One thing you might check. Make sure that hole in the bottom part of
the bowl is clear. Rur your finger around it and inside as well. I
went thru all kinds of grief including looking for dead animals in the
roof vent and getting the cesspool pumped. I found that the toilet
cleaner that my wife put in the tank deposited and partially clogged
the hole. This hole must be free of junk in order to get the siphen
started.

the clogged hole will show up in troubleshoting as a fluses fine with a
bucket of water response.

I recently fixed a long troublesome toilet for a friend. 4 bucks worth
of acid cleaned the bowl rim and passages. toilet works fine today.

actually I only used 1/2 of the acid, so total repair 2 bucks

" writes:

the clogged hole will show up in troubleshoting as a fluses fine with a
bucket of water response.
Why will the bucket flush ok if the trap hole is clogged?


I recently fixed a long troublesome toilet for a friend. 4 bucks worth
of acid cleaned the bowl rim and passages. toilet works fine today.

actually I only used 1/2 of the acid, so total repair 2 bucks

How do you know when "acid" is needed?
By the way I did try some acid a few months back to clean scratches
from the porcelain (which it did). Maybe not enough to have an effect
on any clogs but the toilet did see a few ounces of acid flushed down.

How do you know when "acid" is needed?
By the way I did try some acid a few months back to clean scratches
from the porcelain (which it did). Maybe not enough to have an effect
on any clogs but the toilet did see a few ounces of acid flushed down.


Go buy some acid under 5 bucks, muriatic. and a funnel!

DONT USE ANY OTHER CLEANERS OR ANYTHING IN TOILET AND FLUSH PLAIN WATER
A FEW TIMES BEFORE DOING THIS!

Wear eye protection, plunge toilet to get bowl water level as low as
possible, sponge remainder into bucket if you can, the less water the
more effective the acid

open window, insert funnel in dip tube opening in tank.our about a cup
of acid carefully in funnel dont splash.

then pour about a cup into bowl directly dont spash.

leave room shut door.

wait 15 minutes and flush toilet.like 10 tmes with plain water to
dilute and remove acid from your ghome plumbing lines

now try for a few days. any more clogs?

the clog helped by acid is in the bowl rim, the acid dissolves it. very
easy

you usually note when flushed with plain water the water just swirls
around and doesnt move with force down the drain

crapper wrote:
OK... so this is a little embarassing...

Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
wiping. [sorry for the details]

I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
didn't feel any objects there.

The toilet itself is a regular gravit flush one, maybe 5-10 years
old. I can't see the model number.

Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?

I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
the last 30 years

Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...

Had that sort of problem a few years ago. Finally got P'd off
and took the toilet off the drain. Found a pen lodged
in the trap.

There may be something stuck inside the trap.

--

Jerry G.
======


"crapper" wrote in message
...
OK... so this is a little embarassing...

Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
wiping. [sorry for the details]

I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
didn't feel any objects there.

The toilet itself is a regular gravit flush one, maybe 5-10 years
old. I can't see the model number.

Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?

I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
the last 30 years

Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...

Years ago Had a commode that would stop flushing then would flush
perfect for two or three times then stopup. After trying all ways to
auger it out finally took bowl up. Found the lid of a tin can in trap
that was acting like a butterfly, opening and closing.
The auger was bypassing it.

On 28 Mar 2006 17:16:12 -0800, wrote:

Years ago Had a commode that would stop flushing then would flush
perfect for two or three times then stopup. After trying all ways to
auger it out finally took bowl up. Found the lid of a tin can in trap
that was acting like a butterfly, opening and closing.
The auger was bypassing it.

Bought my house and the seller mentioned the new toilets. So we pulled
them during a tile job before we moved in - several Q-tips ... never
got to the auger, but one did have a flush issue before the sell.

Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:31:13 GMT, crapper wrote:

Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?


The most likely cause and also the easiest solution to the problem is
to replace the wax seal. I have to do this for my toilet every two
years or so. My toilet is over the washer dryer and I suspect the
warm air from the dryer softens the wax seal causing it to lose its
seal integrity. The little air it lets in during the flush cycle
weakens the siphon action. The crap and the toilet paper barely gets
sucked out, and if there is a slightly larger load, they form a dam
and result in a messy overflow. Put in a new wax seal. If that fixes
the problem you know what to do in future. If it doesn't you are not
out by much in cost or effort.

The most likely cause and also the easiest solution to the problem is
to replace the wax seal. I have to do this for my toilet every two
years or so. My toilet is over the washer dryer and I suspect the
warm air from the dryer softens the wax seal causing it to lose its
seal integrity. The little air it lets in during the flush cycle
weakens the siphon action. The crap and the toilet paper barely gets
sucked out, and if there is a slightly larger load, they form a dam
and result in a messy overflow. Put in a new wax seal. If that fixes
the problem you know what to do in future. If it doesn't you are not
out by much in cost or effort.

Reply

true that might fix it but also the bolts may break, flange may have a
problem etc.

ONLY pull toilet after less invasive means have been attempted and
failed...

TRY using only a full bucket of water to flush, if it works ok every
time then its the toilet

I had pasty residue clinging to the walls of the toilet drain, thicker at at the flange and tapering to nothing at the bottom - was thinking lime scale due to hard water and the metal flange, but possibly some wax in the mix, now that washer/dryer and basement shower are all near the toilet and husband washes with piping hot water... About to replace ring - will use rubber not wax this time.

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ly-101769-.htm

On Thu, 13 May 2021 17:45:02 +0000, Na'ilah posted for all of us to digest...


I had pasty residue clinging to the walls of the toilet drain, thicker at at the flange and tapering to nothing at the bottom - was thinking lime scale due to hard water and the metal flange, but possibly some wax in the mix, now that washer/dryer and basement shower are all near the toilet and husband washes with piping hot
water... About to replace ring - will use rubber not wax this time.

Wax is not the problem. The lime scale is; in multiple ways. It may have
clogged the jet hole, rim holes, trap way. You may have to replace the toilet
and add a water softener. Look on U tube for more thoughts.

--
Tekkie

crapper writes:
OK... so this is a little embarassing...

Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
wiping. [sorry for the details]

I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
didn't feel any objects there.

The toilet itself is a regular gravity flush one, maybe 5-10 years
old. I can't see the model number.

Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?

I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
the last 30 years

Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...

OK - I think I have tried everything mentioned in the thread but to no
avail.

1. Closet (toilet) augur - no obstruction
2. Trying to flush by filling toilet with bucket of water (to make
sure that not a water source or siphon issue) - no help
3. Using lots of Muriatic acid in the tank and in the bowl - no help
4. Removed toilet from wax seal (it had the type with a combination
wax seal and rubber flange)
- No visible or palpable obstruction in the toilet
- No visible or palpable obstruction in the drain pipe
- Probed both again with toilet augur
No improvement after cleaning the toilet base and flange and
replacing with new wax seal with flange

Drain pipe does make a 90 degree curve under floor but it seems
smooth and obstruction free otherwise. Also, the "load" seems to
clog before getting very far suggesting that the problem is with
the toilet

I AM STUMPED
Again:
- Any large load (without toilet paper) or even a normal "load" with a
moderate amount of toilet paper clogs the toilet.
- As a "control" case, I have never had such frequent problems with
other toilets

I am beginning to think that maybe it is a bad toilet design. The
problem (to me) at least seems to be with the toilet since the clog
seems to happen before the load has gotten very far (presumably ruling
out a drain problem). In fact much of the "load" regurgitates back
into the bowl.

It also doesn't seem to be a siphon problem because filling the bowl
all the way up doesn't restart the siphon and it takes some reasonably
forceful plunging to clear the clog.

Any other suggestions or should I just buy a new toilet...

"crapper" wrote in message
...
crapper writes:
OK... so this is a little embarassing...

Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
wiping. [sorry for the details]

I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
didn't feel any objects there.

The toilet itself is a regular gravity flush one, maybe 5-10 years
old. I can't see the model number.

Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?

I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
the last 30 years

Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...

OK - I think I have tried everything mentioned in the thread but to no
avail.

1. Closet (toilet) augur - no obstruction
2. Trying to flush by filling toilet with bucket of water (to make
sure that not a water source or siphon issue) - no help
3. Using lots of Muriatic acid in the tank and in the bowl - no help
4. Removed toilet from wax seal (it had the type with a combination
wax seal and rubber flange)
- No visible or palpable obstruction in the toilet
- No visible or palpable obstruction in the drain pipe
- Probed both again with toilet augur
No improvement after cleaning the toilet base and flange and
replacing with new wax seal with flange

Drain pipe does make a 90 degree curve under floor but it seems
smooth and obstruction free otherwise. Also, the "load" seems to
clog before getting very far suggesting that the problem is with
the toilet

I AM STUMPED
Again:
- Any large load (without toilet paper) or even a normal "load" with a
moderate amount of toilet paper clogs the toilet.
- As a "control" case, I have never had such frequent problems with
other toilets

I am beginning to think that maybe it is a bad toilet design. The
problem (to me) at least seems to be with the toilet since the clog
seems to happen before the load has gotten very far (presumably ruling
out a drain problem). In fact much of the "load" regurgitates back
into the bowl.

It also doesn't seem to be a siphon problem because filling the bowl
all the way up doesn't restart the siphon and it takes some reasonably
forceful plunging to clear the clog.

Any other suggestions or should I just buy a new toilet...

The same symptoms came with a house we bought a few years ago. Turned out
that the house had a septic tank (in the middle of a residential community
with sewers). We pumped out the septic tank; but improvement was only
brief. Finally I found a sewer contractor who understood sewer lines. He
found that the pitch of the line from the house to the septic tank was less
than it should be (line was too level) and that caused slow flow and
frequent clogs.

It's relatively easy, of course, to snake the lines and the vent pipe; so
check those out thoroughly. I don't see how a new toilet will make anything
better, however, if the problem is in the pipes somewhere.

TKM

DID THE OP PUT ACID DOWN THE DIP TUBE? Its the pipe standing up in the
tank with a small water line running to it.....

pouring acid just in the tank will accomplish nothing the bowl rim
interior passages are what clogs.

if you flush every time with a bucket does the trouble disappear?

if so the interior passages are clogged.

while you had the toilet removed did you try dumping buckets of water
down the open drain line?

thats a important test to know if the problem is down stream

" writes:
DID THE OP PUT ACID DOWN THE DIP TUBE? Its the pipe standing up in the
tank with a small water line running to it.....

Yes did both.

pouring acid just in the tank will accomplish nothing the bowl rim
interior passages are what clogs.

if you flush every time with a bucket does the trouble disappear?

No - bucket flushing didn't help

if so the interior passages are clogged.

while you had the toilet removed did you try dumping buckets of water
down the open drain line?

No, but the toilet flushes vigorously when there are no solids (I
guess to test I should have taken a dump directly into the open drain
line and poured a bucket of water down

thats a important test to know if the problem is down stream

I had a toilet a few years ago that had similar problems.

In the end it turned out that my teen age daughter dropped a stick
of deodorant into the toilet. Instead of doing the awful thing of
reaching into the toilet bowl she decided to just flush the problem
away. The stick made the turn around the first part of the S curve but
couldn't go any further. It was stuck in the middle of the S curve. It
was not visible and a toilet auger would just bypass it. I tied a
three prong fish hook to a sturdy string and flushed it. It would
catch something but couldn't pull it out.

I finally took the toilet outside and maneuvered a 1/4 inch rope
through the S curve and tied the rope to an old fashioned mop head. I
attempted to pull the mop head backwards through the S curve and
with it the obstruction but this didn't work either.

I still had no idea what the obstruction was. My daughter never
admitted to having any knowledge of the missing stick of deodorant.

After a few months of putting up with a toilet that would clog easily
I took matters into my own hand. HAMMER! DEODORANT! ANGRY!

After I calmed down I went to Home Depot to get a new toilet. It
was only then that I discovered that the size (3.5 gallon) and the
color (Harvest Gold) was not available. I settled for a 1.6 gallon
white Kohler.

A few years went by with my mis-matched toilet and then my neighbor
had a garage sale. In the sale he had his old 3.5 gallon Harvest Gold
toilet left over from his updated bathroom with a "free" sign on it.
Bingo. I'm back to being matched again with my 70's style bathroom.

P.S. I do not have a avocado refrigerator

Any other suggestions or should I just buy a new toilet...

Read my full reply. You have a solid object that was flushed down
the toilet and is stuck in the middle of the S curve. Remove the
toilet and shake it to confirm a rattle sound.

wrote:
Any other suggestions or should I just buy a new toilet...


Read my full reply. You have a solid object that was flushed down
the toilet and is stuck in the middle of the S curve. Remove the
toilet and shake it to confirm a rattle sound.



If you can borrow the right kind of fiber optic viewing tool you can
look in the S-bend and checks to see if there's a partial obstruction.

Got any doctor friends?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

Jeff Wisnia writes:
wrote:
Any other suggestions or should I just buy a new toilet...
Read my full reply. You have a solid object that was flushed down
the toilet and is stuck in the middle of the S curve. Remove the
toilet and shake it to confirm a rattle sound.

Damn -- should have done that when I had it off the wax ring


If you can borrow the right kind of fiber optic viewing tool you can
look in the S-bend and checks to see if there's a partial obstruction.

Got any doctor friends?


Interesting - I actually have a (non-medical) 24 inch fiber optic
scope... Only problem is I would have to stick my face pretty close
into the bowl to reach plus I'm not sure it is water proof and even if
it is, I'm not sure I want to be sticking it down the toilet...

Dear Jeff,
Your doctor has a fiber optic viewer that was in someone's toilet.
Which of your 2,000 body parts do you want examined with a toilet
optic?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
wrote:

If you can borrow the right kind of fiber optic viewing tool you can
look in the S-bend and checks to see if there's a partial obstruction.

Got any doctor friends?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

i had a rental with the same system and problem. a little kid
flushed a pencil.she walked in and told me. water would go down fine but
not solds the closet auger didnt get it. so i had the little girl reach
in and she got the pencil out. i agree you should pour water down the
pipe with the toilet off to make sure problem isnt there.. ive fixed
many slow flush toilets by opening up the little holes under the rim
with a nail..lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:55:32 GMT, crapper wrote Re
FRUSTRATION: (UPDATE) Toilet clogs repeatedly...:

4. Removed toilet from wax seal (it had the type with a combination
wax seal and rubber flange)
- No visible or palpable obstruction in the toilet
- No visible or palpable obstruction in the drain pipe
- Probed both again with toilet augur
No improvement after cleaning the toilet base and flange and
replacing with new wax seal with flange

I once had the same type of problem. Liquids would flush fine, but
toilet paper would cause the toilet to slow-drain. When I removed the
bowl I was expecting to see an obstruction, but didn't see anything. I
put my hand up into the bottom of the bowl from where it meets with
the wax ring. At first I couldn't find any obstruction. Then I found
it.

A piece of dental floss! Someone had flushed it and it got caught in
there. It would snag toilet paper and slow the flush, but liquids-only
had no problem.

Feel around up there for anything that could cause a snag. Reach up as
far as you can but be careful not to get you hand stuck.
--
To email me directly, remove CLUTTER.

As has been discussed here many times, new commodes are inferior and prone
to clogging. FWIE, usually, the date of manufacture is stamped inside the
tank. I'm not sure when "low-flush" toilets were mandated but one
indication of which you may have is the size of the "water spot". That is,
the amount of surface presented by the water in the bowl, when at rest.
Newer, problematic toilets have a water spot approx. 4" in diameter. Older
ones can be 7" - 8".

Another possibility is that the obstruction is downstream a bit. Can we try
a few buckets of water in succession?

"crapper" wrote in message
...
crapper writes:
OK... so this is a little embarassing...

Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
wiping. [sorry for the details]

I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
didn't feel any objects there.

The toilet itself is a regular gravity flush one, maybe 5-10 years
old. I can't see the model number.

Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?

I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
the last 30 years

Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...

OK - I think I have tried everything mentioned in the thread but to no
avail.

1. Closet (toilet) augur - no obstruction
2. Trying to flush by filling toilet with bucket of water (to make
sure that not a water source or siphon issue) - no help
3. Using lots of Muriatic acid in the tank and in the bowl - no help
4. Removed toilet from wax seal (it had the type with a combination
wax seal and rubber flange)
- No visible or palpable obstruction in the toilet
- No visible or palpable obstruction in the drain pipe
- Probed both again with toilet augur
No improvement after cleaning the toilet base and flange and
replacing with new wax seal with flange

Drain pipe does make a 90 degree curve under floor but it seems
smooth and obstruction free otherwise. Also, the "load" seems to
clog before getting very far suggesting that the problem is with
the toilet

I AM STUMPED
Again:
- Any large load (without toilet paper) or even a normal "load" with a
moderate amount of toilet paper clogs the toilet.
- As a "control" case, I have never had such frequent problems with
other toilets

I am beginning to think that maybe it is a bad toilet design. The
problem (to me) at least seems to be with the toilet since the clog
seems to happen before the load has gotten very far (presumably ruling
out a drain problem). In fact much of the "load" regurgitates back
into the bowl.

It also doesn't seem to be a siphon problem because filling the bowl
all the way up doesn't restart the siphon and it takes some reasonably
forceful plunging to clear the clog.

Any other suggestions or should I just buy a new toilet...