I've done lots of Googling on this subject, which led me to check many
things in my attempt at resolving the trouble. However, the problem still
exists, and I am still left with questions.

Situation:
* 2 story house with basement half above grade (so it's like 2½ stories)

* A single roof vent for all drains in the house

* House has 1½ baths: full upstairs, powder room in basement (both
installed by builder

* House built 1988, no modifications to plumbing

* All downstairs drains are just fine. Toilet flushes properly.

* Upstairs vanity and tub drains a bit slow, but acceptable. Had problem
last winter. Augering drain seemed to fix it. This time augering does not
fix. Upstairs toilet flushes VERY slowly. Does not ever drain completely.

* Had toilet off today, snaked drain with 25' auger. No clogs found, no
change in toilet behavior

* When toilet was off, 2 gal buckets of water poured down drain as fast as
possible went down without problems or backing up

* When 2 gal was poured quickly down freshly re-installed toilet, the
toilet still does not flush. Water rises, goes slowly down to resting level
but no further. If I wait ten minutes, then pour 2 gal down, it may flush
all the way, but lazily when it does

* No obstructions in toilet trap (checked when toilet was off)

* Jets in bowl are clear. Siphon hole is also clear and emits water when
toilet flushes (felt with hand)

* Weather here has been off and on cold/warm. Currently nearly 40F and
rainy. No snow on lawn or roof

* No trees near stack


Conclusion:
The problem has GOT to be the stack, no? I'm out of other options.

Questions:
The roof is 30 feet in the air. The roof pitch is steep enough, and wet
enough, that wife does not want me up there just now. What does the inside
of the stack look like, and can I just use my 25' auger inside it? If
there's ice or other debris, will it be readliy visible with a light?

Thanks for any help.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR® wrote:

I've done lots of Googling on this subject, which led me to check many
things in my attempt at resolving the trouble. However, the problem still
exists, and I am still left with questions.

Situation:
* 2 story house with basement half above grade (so it's like 2½ stories)

* A single roof vent for all drains in the house

* House has 1½ baths: full upstairs, powder room in basement (both
installed by builder

* House built 1988, no modifications to plumbing

* All downstairs drains are just fine. Toilet flushes properly.

* Upstairs vanity and tub drains a bit slow, but acceptable. Had problem
last winter. Augering drain seemed to fix it. This time augering does not
fix. Upstairs toilet flushes VERY slowly. Does not ever drain completely.

* Had toilet off today, snaked drain with 25' auger. No clogs found, no
change in toilet behavior

* When toilet was off, 2 gal buckets of water poured down drain as fast as
possible went down without problems or backing up

* When 2 gal was poured quickly down freshly re-installed toilet, the
toilet still does not flush. Water rises, goes slowly down to resting level
but no further. If I wait ten minutes, then pour 2 gal down, it may flush
all the way, but lazily when it does

* No obstructions in toilet trap (checked when toilet was off)

* Jets in bowl are clear. Siphon hole is also clear and emits water when
toilet flushes (felt with hand)

* Weather here has been off and on cold/warm. Currently nearly 40F and
rainy. No snow on lawn or roof

* No trees near stack


Conclusion:
The problem has GOT to be the stack, no? I'm out of other options.

Questions:
The roof is 30 feet in the air. The roof pitch is steep enough, and wet
enough, that wife does not want me up there just now. What does the inside
of the stack look like, and can I just use my 25' auger inside it? If
there's ice or other debris, will it be readliy visible with a light?

Thanks for any help.



Tough call. You've done all the right tests.

The toilet doesn't depend on the stack vent to
allow the water to go down the soil stack.
The vent only prevents siphoning of the bowl
(and other fixtures). Blockage at the discharge
end (to septic/sewer) will cause backpressure
which could affect it.

If the stack vent were blocked I would expect to hear
(sink) trap gurgling during flushing. And this would
affect all floors. If you dare go on the roof, you
can drop a string down or pour water or even listen
during flushing.

Don't have a pat answer. Is it worth sticking another
toilet on there?
Jim

Speedy Jim wrote in
. com:

TeGGeR® wrote:



snip


The roof is 30 feet in the air. The roof pitch is steep enough, and
wet enough, that wife does not want me up there just now. What does
the inside of the stack look like, and can I just use my 25' auger
inside it? If there's ice or other debris, will it be readliy visible
with a light?

Thanks for any help.



Tough call. You've done all the right tests.

The toilet doesn't depend on the stack vent to
allow the water to go down the soil stack.
The vent only prevents siphoning of the bowl
(and other fixtures).



I didn't know that.



Blockage at the discharge
end (to septic/sewer) will cause backpressure
which could affect it.



Basement toilet flushes fine. I'd also expect problems with that one if the
connection to the minucipal sewer were blocked.




If the stack vent were blocked I would expect to hear
(sink) trap gurgling during flushing.



It does not gurgle. No sounds at all fron sink drain.


And this would
affect all floors. If you dare go on the roof, you
can drop a string down or pour water or even listen
during flushing.



We've decided to use the basement toilet until the roof is dry, at which
point I'll see what I can do up there with the auger. If running the auger
down the vent doesn't help, we're just going to bite the bullet and get a
new toilet. Don't know what else to do.




Don't have a pat answer. Is it worth sticking another
toilet on there?


I'd be willing, if I knew that was it. I suppose I could lug the basement
toilet upstairs and install it there to see if that makes a difference, but
that seems like an awful lot of work at this point.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"TeGGeR®" wrote in message
...
I've done lots of Googling on this subject, which led me to check many
things in my attempt at resolving the trouble. However, the problem still
exists, and I am still left with questions.

Situation:
* 2 story house with basement half above grade (so it's like 2½ stories)

* A single roof vent for all drains in the house

* House has 1½ baths: full upstairs, powder room in basement (both
installed by builder

* House built 1988, no modifications to plumbing

* All downstairs drains are just fine. Toilet flushes properly.

* Upstairs vanity and tub drains a bit slow, but acceptable. Had problem
last winter. Augering drain seemed to fix it. This time augering does not
fix. Upstairs toilet flushes VERY slowly. Does not ever drain completely.

* Had toilet off today, snaked drain with 25' auger. No clogs found, no
change in toilet behavior

* When toilet was off, 2 gal buckets of water poured down drain as fast as
possible went down without problems or backing up

* When 2 gal was poured quickly down freshly re-installed toilet, the
toilet still does not flush. Water rises, goes slowly down to resting
level
but no further. If I wait ten minutes, then pour 2 gal down, it may flush
all the way, but lazily when it does

* No obstructions in toilet trap (checked when toilet was off)

* Jets in bowl are clear. Siphon hole is also clear and emits water when
toilet flushes (felt with hand)

* Weather here has been off and on cold/warm. Currently nearly 40F and
rainy. No snow on lawn or roof

* No trees near stack


Conclusion:
The problem has GOT to be the stack, no? I'm out of other options.

Questions:
The roof is 30 feet in the air. The roof pitch is steep enough, and wet
enough, that wife does not want me up there just now. What does the inside
of the stack look like, and can I just use my 25' auger inside it? If
there's ice or other debris, will it be readliy visible with a light?

Thanks for any help.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/


Calcium build up in the throat of the toilet?

Before I climbed on the roof I would spend $25 to buy an el-cheapo bowl only
at Lowes or HD and see if it flushes properly using the bucket method. If it
does then you know the problem is with the toilet.

Whether you dry it out and take it back or not is up to you.


Colbyt

See my posting on this site"'Toilet doesn't flosh well", You may have
that problem also.
Jack

"Colbyt" wrote in
news:0xbDf.762557$xm3.322363@attbi_s21:


"TeGGeR®" wrote in message
...



Calcium build up in the throat of the toilet?



Not a trace. I looked and felt. Our water is pretty soft. The town's wells
get their water from an aquifer.




Before I climbed on the roof I would spend $25 to buy an el-cheapo
bowl only at Lowes or HD and see if it flushes properly using the
bucket method. If it does then you know the problem is with the
toilet.



Not a bad idea.

However, I still can't help wondering if it's a piping issue of some sort.
I can't see a damn thing wrong with that toilet, and the upstairs sink and
tub drains are slower than they ought to be.




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

if you can get access from a lower spot you can snake upward to the
roof from below.

that happened here one time, plumber thought he was going to the street
but i heard the snake in the main soil stack, plumber didnt believe me
till i reported snake in bathroom, headed across floor..

i doubt its a vent issue, line below must be plugged somwehow

if you can get access from a lower spot you can snake upward to the
roof from below.

that happened here one time, plumber thought he was going to the street
but i heard the snake in the main soil stack, plumber didnt believe me
till i reported snake in bathroom, headed across floor..

i doubt its a vent issue, line below must be plugged somwehow

On 29 Jan 2006 20:14:19 GMT, "TeGGeR®" wrote:

The roof pitch is steep enough, and wet
enough, that wife does not want me up there just now.

I don't want you up there either. I had a friend who fell off the
roof. His wife was at the kitchen sink and got to see him fly by.

He could have broken his head, but he only broke his leg. Six months
later it still wouldn't heal, he was still on crutches, and he had to
plug himself in every night to try to get some electro-something to
work, but it didn't. He was a work friend, and when I changed jobs, I
lost track of whether he ever healed or not.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

On 29 Jan 2006 20:24:35 -0800, "
wrote:


i doubt its a vent issue, line below must be plugged somwehow

Yes, If there is really only one stack, how could it be the stack?

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

* When toilet was off, 2 gal buckets of water poured down drain as fast as
possible went down without problems or backing up.

This tells me that the toilet's integral trap is clogged. You are unable to
see fully into the integral trap of a toilet. Get a closet auger and clear
the clog. HD and Lowes sell them. It should look like this:
http://www.drainbrain.com/rental/closet.html

Here is a link to a cutaway diagram of a toilet.
http://www.toiletology.com/anatomy.shtml

Page down to the "common bowl types" and look how the front part of the
integral trap of toilet is hidden unless you stick your head down into the
bowl. Don't stick your head down in the bowl, ask and I'll send over my
brother-in-law to do it for you--no charge.

Al

"TeGGeR®" wrote in
:


see original message of Sunday Jan 29th for details of problem


UPDATE: Guess what? IT FIXED ITSELF.

In fact, ALL THREE upstairs drains are now just tickety-boo.

We had been using the commode to pee, just putting any paper in a
wastebasket, so that way we could still use it and paper wouldn't
accumulate. Not once did the unit flush. The water would just rise and
settle back down, with lots of swirling and gurgling.

Yesterday, the toilet was flushed several times during the day, no change
in problem. Then in the evening, the toilet was flushed one mre time, and
it flushed properly! A good strong flush, with a small gulp of air at the
end, just like it used to. And it's continued that way through this
morning. I watched that first successful flush and the one previous.
Nothing came out of the siphon hole or anywhere else.

I'm happy, but completely baffled. I did nothing other than what was
outlined on Jan 29th. I know I was told the vent stack had nothing to do
with toilet drain, but I can't help thinking something (ice?) broke loose
in there.

Thanks to all for their help.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

In article ,
TeGGeR® wrote:
"TeGGeR®" wrote in
:


see original message of Sunday Jan 29th for details of problem


UPDATE: Guess what? IT FIXED ITSELF.

In fact, ALL THREE upstairs drains are now just tickety-boo.

We had been using the commode to pee, just putting any paper in a
wastebasket, so that way we could still use it and paper wouldn't
accumulate.

Heard in California, 20, 30 years ago (water shortage):

If it's BROWN, flush it DOWN;
if it's YELLOW, let it MELLOW.


:-)

David