I've had a generator stolen by someone with a large felling axe who
bust the padlock.

I can get a bigger padlock, but then they would probably go for the
chain/steel cable instead.

A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them?
Has anyone any experience?

Thanks
Jilly

On Dec 29, 6:58*pm, Jilly wrote:
I've had a generator stolen by someone with a large felling axe who
bust the padlock.

I can get a bigger padlock, but then they would probably go for the
chain/steel cable instead.

A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them?
Has anyone any experience?

Thanks
Jilly

Have a look at motorcycle security chains/cables (talk to the people
in a motorcycle shop about what's good).

However, with a generator, there's probably a steel frame that can be
sawn more easily than the better security chains/cables.

Also look at motion-sensors/lights/sirens triggered if someone goes
*near* the generator.

BTW how do you know they used an axe on the lock? Video?

BTW how do you know they used an axe on the lock? Video?

It was on the door - there are large slashes in the wood, and grooves
dented into the top of the brass body.
It was a fairly substantial (50mm Abus) padlock. Thank goodness it
broke without them demolishing the door as well.

Jilly wrote:

A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them?
Has anyone any experience?

Any device used to secure property can be overcome. I've had 200Kg
generators stolen from locked sheds in which the generator was padlocked
using cable to an eyebolt in the floor. The thieves found it easier to
saw through the eye bolt than the cable.

No matter what you do, someone will find a way around it. All you can
hope to do is delay them.

On 29/12/2010 19:15, Steve Firth wrote:
wrote:

A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them?
Has anyone any experience?

Any device used to secure property can be overcome. I've had 200Kg
generators stolen from locked sheds in which the generator was padlocked
using cable to an eyebolt in the floor. The thieves found it easier to
saw through the eye bolt than the cable.

No matter what you do, someone will find a way around it. All you can
hope to do is delay them.

You're so right. My dad used to say that the only thing a lock does is
to keep honest people that way.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Dec 29, 7:15*pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:

using cable to an eyebolt in the floor. The thieves found it easier to
saw through the eye bolt than the cable.

A useful alternative to eyebolts is often to have a bit extra chain
length, peg the chain with a bit of horizontal rebar aboout 18" below
ground level and concrete over.

Jilly laid this down on his screen :
I've had a generator stolen by someone with a large felling axe who
bust the padlock.

I can get a bigger padlock, but then they would probably go for the
chain/steel cable instead.

A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them?
Has anyone any experience?

Any braided wire cable is difficult to saw through, even given plenty
of time, but an angle grinder (battery version) will make short work of
it. The best way is to either make the cable and padlock inaccessible,
or find some other way to secure it. Could you perhaps set a
substantial part of the generator frame locked below ground level, in
concrete, with a lock which is inaccessible to tools.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Dec 29, 6:58*pm, Jilly wrote:
I've had a generator stolen by someone with a large felling axe who
bust the padlock.

I can get a bigger padlock, but then they would probably go for the
chain/steel cable instead.

A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them?
Has anyone any experience?

Thanks
Jilly

braided cables last less time than these chains aginst bolt cutters;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpf35C7wu6Q

Cheers
Adam

In message
,
Adam Aglionby writes
On Dec 29, 6:58*pm, Jilly wrote:
I've had a generator stolen by someone with a large felling axe who
bust the padlock.

I can get a bigger padlock, but then they would probably go for the
chain/steel cable instead.

A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them?
Has anyone any experience?

Thanks
Jilly

braided cables last less time than these chains aginst bolt cutters;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpf35C7wu6Q

I have an Almax chain on my bike - prolly a good way to blunt an axe
blade

A strong chain just means that they go for the next weakest link

Get a PIR and a dozen sound bombs

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...source=froogle

- it just makes life very unpleasant to be in the vicinity when they go
off, they get "inside" your head


--
geoff

Jilly gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

I've had a generator stolen by someone with a large felling axe who bust
the padlock.

I can get a bigger padlock, but then they would probably go for the
chain/steel cable instead.

It's a battle of wits, an arms race - against a scrote whose whole raison
d'etre is nicking anything that they can. You can never win. You can only
persuade them to try something easier.

Huge gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

It's a battle of wits, an arms race - against a scrote whose whole
raison d'etre is nicking anything that they can. You can never win. You
can only persuade them to try something easier.

Perhaps while dragging the stumps of their legs behind them?

Mmm. I think you might find that the law regards snares, man-traps and
landmines a snidge inadvisable for protecting property against theft.

Whether that's a good thing or not is something I intend to leave as an
exercise for the reader.

Huge wrote:

Mmm. I think you might find that the law regards snares, man-traps and
landmines a snidge inadvisable for protecting property against theft.

I know. A position I disapprove of.

However, an inspection pit with a flimsy cover cannot be regarded as a
"man trap" can it? Shame that I use mine for storing sharpened bamboo
stakes that accidentally became smeared with dog excrement.

On Dec 30, 1:12*pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:

However, an inspection pit with a flimsy cover cannot be regarded as a
"man trap" can it?

Probably not, but it's still regarded as an unguarded hazard and the
landowner or tenant will be regarded as legally liable for injurires
due to it. This is still the case even if you have to trespass to get
to it (there is case law on this) and thus such a pit on the perimeter
is a problem. Fortunately warning signs are seen as a defence against
such claims, in the peanut-sized minds of the Dennises who control
such things.

I have such a pit on the corner of my land (sans stakes as yet, but
still an adequate drop for an oubliette). As I've already had council
dealings in relation to it (they're adjacent to its edge), I do have
to make sure it's suitably signed.

On Dec 30 2010, 2:38*pm, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Dec 30, 1:12*pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:

However, an inspection pit with a flimsy cover cannot be regarded as a
"man trap" can it?

Probably not, but it's still regarded as an unguarded hazard and the
landowner or tenant will be regarded as legally liable for injurires
due to it. This is still the case even if you have to trespass to get
to it (there is case law on this) and thus such a pit on the perimeter
is a problem. Fortunately warning signs are seen as a defence against
such claims, in the peanut-sized minds of the Dennises who control
such things.

Warning signs are *not* a defence against a claim of negligence - what
if the trespasser couldn't read them ? (which is what the high court
ruled, years ago).


I have such a pit on the corner of my land (sans stakes as yet, but
still an adequate drop for an oubliette). As I've already had council
dealings in relation to it (they're adjacent to its edge), I do have
to make sure it's suitably signed.

Huge :
On 2010-12-30, Steve Firth wrote:
Huge wrote:

Mmm. I think you might find that the law regards snares, man-traps and
landmines a snidge inadvisable for protecting property against theft.

I know. A position I disapprove of.

However, an inspection pit with a flimsy cover cannot be regarded as a
"man trap" can it?

I have read that one has a duty of care towards burglars. I hope that this
is not true, but fear that is.

It's reasonable to expect care towards members of the emergency services
who, for a variety of reasons, might be on your premises.

--
Mike Barnes

In article , lid
says...
However, an inspection pit with a flimsy cover cannot be regarded as a
"man trap" can it?

I have read that one has a duty of care towards burglars. I hope that this
is not true, but fear that is.

You have a duty of care towards anyone on your premises. And for good
reason - were it otherwise it would be tantamount to saying that we have
corporal punishment (or even capital punishment) for burglary.

You might /want/ to do the blighters in, but it ain't allowed. For one
thing, you'd have to ber certain that anyone doing what you assume is
wrong is actually doing wrong.

We had a kid jump over the back fence in our old house in Rayner's Lane.
He chose the wrong fence - landed in the 6' strip of blackberries we
kept to deter people from jumping over the fence. As it happens he was
fleeing from a bunch other kids who were intent on kicking the **** out
of him - only they saw the brambles and he didn't.

While I was picking thorns out of him they came round the front and were
met by the police coming the other way.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On Dec 30 2010, 6:43*pm, Skipweasel wrote:

We had a kid jump over the back fence in our old house in Rayner's Lane.
He chose the wrong fence - landed in the 6' strip of blackberries we
kept to deter people from jumping over the fence.

Such deterrents are usually more effective than most things. Sea
buckthorn performs most impressively :-)

John

On 29 Dec 2010 23:09:47 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2010-12-29, Adrian wrote:
Jilly gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

I've had a generator stolen by someone with a large felling axe who bust
the padlock.

I can get a bigger padlock, but then they would probably go for the
chain/steel cable instead.

It's a battle of wits, an arms race - against a scrote whose whole raison
d'etre is nicking anything that they can. You can never win. You can only
persuade them to try something easier.

Perhaps while dragging the stumps of their legs behind them?

The scrotes round here would chew off the stumps of their own legs to
escape and thieve again.

Derek G

"Jilly" wrote in message
...
I've had a generator stolen by someone with a large felling axe who
bust the padlock.

I can get a bigger padlock, but then they would probably go for the
chain/steel cable instead.

A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them?
Has anyone any experience?

A cordless angle grinder will go through anything you can get at a
reasonable price.
Cheap bolt cutters will go through most of the stuff and bolt cutters are
easy to steal in the first place.
They can always cut the generators frame to get the lock off.

They can always cut the generators frame to get the lock off.

Yes but it's embarrassing selling it on afterwards, maybe!

"Jilly" wrote in message
...

They can always cut the generators frame to get the lock off.

Yes but it's embarrassing selling it on afterwards, maybe!

The crooks that buy the stuff don't care.
They probably ordered a welder at the same pub.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:58:57 -0800, Jilly wrote:
A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them? Has
anyone any experience?

It'll get angle-grinded anyway, so nothing's truly secure. Scribing some
security-marks into various parts and slapping a prominent sign on it to
say that you've done so might not be a bad idea.

Maybe look into camera setups, too - things seem to be getting quite
cheap these days in that area (heck, it seems like you can get a trail
camera with night-vision and a year of battery life for less than a
hundred quid now).

a trail
camera with night-vision and a year of battery life for less than a
hundred quid now).

Sounds the business - where from? Does it have a motion sensor?

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:59:43 -0800 (PST), Jilly wrote:

a trail camera with night-vision and a year of battery life for
less
than a hundred quid now).

Sounds the business - where from? Does it have a motion sensor?

I guess this is waht is meant a Google "hawke prostalk nature
camera". Various versions are available but I can't find a makers
site.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Dec 29, 8:59*pm, Jilly wrote:
*a trail

camera with night-vision and a year of battery life for less than a
hundred quid now).

Sounds the business - where from? *Does it have a motion sensor?

You might like the Guard Cam

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TSGC.html

Dave TMH

The Medway Handyman :
On Dec 29, 8:59*pm, Jilly wrote:
*a trail

camera with night-vision and a year of battery life for less than a
hundred quid now).

Sounds the business - where from? *Does it have a motion sensor?

You might like the Guard Cam

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TSGC.html

That looks good - has anyone used one?

It's not clear to me from the documentation whether it's possible to
have it operating in the mode I'd want:

* light off in daylight and under PIR control in darkness

* light override 'on' by separate live mains input (many PIR
floodlights have a connection for this even if it's not a 'feature')

* camera under PIR control 24 hours

* audio always off

And what's the picture quality like?

--
Mike Barnes

Mike Barnes wrote:


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TSGC.html

That looks good - has anyone used one?

Yes, I use two at work.

It's not clear to me from the documentation whether it's possible to
have it operating in the mode I'd want:

* light off in daylight and under PIR control in darkness

it does

* light override 'on' by separate live mains input (many PIR
floodlights have a connection for this even if it's not a 'feature')

Not that I can see

* camera under PIR control 24 hours

It is

* audio always off

Settable

And what's the picture quality like?


Moderate

It can be set to record 20 sec video or a series of jpegs. There does seem
quite some variation in sensitivity between the two units, also there is ~1
second delay between sensing and recording, which is why a little while
back I asked about means to externally trigger the pir, without delving
into the electronics.

AJH

In message , Jules Richardson
writes
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:58:57 -0800, Jilly wrote:
A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them? Has
anyone any experience?

It'll get angle-grinded anyway, so nothing's truly secure. Scribing some
security-marks into various parts and slapping a prominent sign on it to
say that you've done so might not be a bad idea.

Maybe look into camera setups, too - things seem to be getting quite
cheap these days in that area (heck, it seems like you can get a trail
camera with night-vision and a year of battery life for less than a
hundred quid now).


MMMMMMMMM!!!!!
earlier this year I fitted a 4 channel CCTV DVR into a locked room
within a locked 40' shipping container and 4 cameras to keep an eye on
some expensive items outside the container.
Just before Christmas I got a call to say that the DVR and cameras had
been stolen overnight, not to mention some of the expensive items.

If they want it they will find a way.




--
Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Jules Richardson
writes
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:58:57 -0800, Jilly wrote:
A cable (eg Master Lock 15mm braided steel cable) would be much easier
to use than a chain - but are they any good, or will a serious axe
(against a concrete floor) or hacksaw attack just chop through them? Has
anyone any experience?

It'll get angle-grinded anyway, so nothing's truly secure. Scribing some
security-marks into various parts and slapping a prominent sign on it to
say that you've done so might not be a bad idea.

Maybe look into camera setups, too - things seem to be getting quite
cheap these days in that area (heck, it seems like you can get a trail
camera with night-vision and a year of battery life for less than a
hundred quid now).


MMMMMMMMM!!!!!
earlier this year I fitted a 4 channel CCTV DVR into a locked room within
a locked 40' shipping container and 4 cameras to keep an eye on some
expensive items outside the container.
Just before Christmas I got a call to say that the DVR and cameras had
been stolen overnight, not to mention some of the expensive items.

If they want it they will find a way.

If it had been a networked DVR or IP cameras connected to a broadband
(wireless) network you would still have the pictures.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes

earlier this year I fitted a 4 channel CCTV DVR into a locked room
within a locked 40' shipping container and 4 cameras to keep an eye
on some expensive items outside the container.
Just before Christmas I got a call to say that the DVR and cameras
had been stolen overnight, not to mention some of the expensive items.

If they want it they will find a way.

If it had been a networked DVR or IP cameras connected to a broadband
(wireless) network you would still have the pictures.

Indeed, slight problem in that the nearest civilisation is some miles
away, it would have needed to be a wireless link and they weren't
willing to pay. Like most of the problems on the site it was an inside
job.
--
Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...

Indeed, slight problem in that the nearest civilisation is some miles
away, it would have needed to be a wireless link and they weren't willing
to pay. Like most of the problems on the site it was an inside job.

It frequently is, most shop lifting is the staff too.
Some companies are slowly beginning to realise this and are using hidden
cameras in staff areas.

On Dec 29, 6:58*pm, Jilly wrote:
I've had a generator stolen by someone with a large felling axe who
bust the padlock.

Read some bike mags or motorbike mags for reviews of kit.

One of the easiest ways to break such a security device is to hammer
on the padlock - so when you lock up, make sure that the chain can't
be re-arranged so that the padlock is placed on the ground where it's
easy to hit.

Cables aren't really much use - always far too easy to cut. Chains are
what you need. You also need a good chain: welded links, good alloy,
probably trapezoidal section rod rather than round.

As to a padlock, then the Abus Diskus is still one of the best. The
shackle (weakest point) is short, straight(ish) and well guarded.


Portable angle grinders now make it quite difficult to chain something
up in a secure way, unless the noise would be noticed. Bolt cutters
are no longer the worst enemy.

Cables aren't really much use - always far too easy to cut. Chains are
what you need. You also need a good chain: welded links, good alloy,
probably trapezoidal section rod rather than round.

As to a padlock, then the Abus Diskus is still one of the best. The
shackle (weakest point) is short, straight(ish) and well guarded.

So Abus are better than Master Lock? Lots of people seem to be
picking them on Youtube.

I'm thinking about a small version of the T34 tank - welded box,
inaccessible padlock, half full of concrete and bolted into bedrock
with humungous rock bolts.

Portable angle grinders now make it quite difficult to chain something
up in a secure way, unless the noise would be noticed. Bolt cutters
are no longer the worst enemy.

Unfortunately the neighbours are a mile away.

On Dec 29, 8:51*pm, Jilly wrote:
Cables aren't really much use - always far too easy to cut. Chains are
what you need. You also need a good chain: welded links, good alloy,
probably trapezoidal section rod rather than round.

As to a padlock, then the Abus Diskus is still one of the best. The
shackle (weakest point) is short, straight(ish) and well guarded.

So Abus are better than Master Lock? *Lots of people seem to be
picking them on Youtube.

BMW vs. General Motors.

First off, locks don't get picked. UK tea leaves just aren't that hard-
working. Also we have better padlocks than the Yanks, so picking just
never took off here the way it did over there. Don't ask me to explain
it - they have some fantastic locks and keying systems, then they put
them on houses made of chipboard. Last time I was burgled it was some
meathead Geordie who walked through a steel door, probably by chewing
it. Our thieves break stuff - they're not this subtle (unless you've
annoyed George Smiley).

If "lots of people" are picking them on YouTube, that's because
they're hard to do and it's impressive if you can pick them. You're
hardly going to brag about picking a Chinese three circle or a
MasterLock combination.

Abus make a range of padlocks. The little ones are no better than they
ought to be (still strong though). The mid-range stuff with 6 pins and
mushrooms (the longer cylinder is a bulge in the case) is quite good,
but they're easy picking if you know the way to do it (it's not the
normal technique, and I can't do it unless I can get my hands easily
onto the lock). The Diskus Plus is beyond me.

"Disk" padlocks are NOT all alike. Some are utter rubbish. There are
Chinese ones around that aren't fully welded and you can pop the cases
faster than picking. For another thing, don't trust a disk lock that
doesn't retain its key when open. I've not had my hands on a Master
Excel, their disk range (not particularly planning to), but I have
removed many of their other locks. Usually by breaking them, not by
picking.


I'm thinking about a small version of the T34 tank - welded box,
inaccessible padlock, half full of concrete and bolted into bedrock
with humungous rock bolts.

I've got an interest in an expensive piece of kit that lives in
isolation. It's locked by a bar through its frame. I could steal it in
half an hour with just a hacksaw, but I'd have to seriously damage the
machine (not usable, manufacturer-only fix) in doing so. The "bar" is
scaffold pipe, with a good alloy chain in it, also filled with hard
aggregate concrete. You need both angle grinder and gas axe to remove
it that way.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 8:51 pm, Jilly wrote:
Cables aren't really much use - always far too easy to cut. Chains are
what you need. You also need a good chain: welded links, good alloy,
probably trapezoidal section rod rather than round.

As to a padlock, then the Abus Diskus is still one of the best. The
shackle (weakest point) is short, straight(ish) and well guarded.

So Abus are better than Master Lock? Lots of people seem to be
picking them on Youtube.

BMW vs. General Motors.

First off, locks don't get picked. UK tea leaves just aren't that hard-
working. Also we have better padlocks than the Yanks, so picking just
never took off here the way it did over there. Don't ask me to explain
it - they have some fantastic locks and keying systems, then they put
them on houses made of chipboard. Last time I was burgled it was some
meathead Geordie who walked through a steel door, probably by chewing
it. Our thieves break stuff - they're not this subtle (unless you've
annoyed George Smiley).

If "lots of people" are picking them on YouTube, that's because
they're hard to do and it's impressive if you can pick them. You're
hardly going to brag about picking a Chinese three circle or a
MasterLock combination.

Abus make a range of padlocks. The little ones are no better than they
ought to be (still strong though). The mid-range stuff with 6 pins and
mushrooms (the longer cylinder is a bulge in the case) is quite good,
but they're easy picking if you know the way to do it (it's not the
normal technique, and I can't do it unless I can get my hands easily
onto the lock). The Diskus Plus is beyond me.

"Disk" padlocks are NOT all alike. Some are utter rubbish. There are
Chinese ones around that aren't fully welded and you can pop the cases
faster than picking. For another thing, don't trust a disk lock that
doesn't retain its key when open. I've not had my hands on a Master
Excel, their disk range (not particularly planning to), but I have
removed many of their other locks. Usually by breaking them, not by
picking.

Disc padlocks suffer from having curved shackles.
This makes it hard to put a freely rotating hardened pin through them to
make cutting more difficult like they do on good mortise locks. Not that it
matters if you use an angle grinder to cut through the body anyway.



I'm thinking about a small version of the T34 tank - welded box,
inaccessible padlock, half full of concrete and bolted into bedrock
with humungous rock bolts.

I've got an interest in an expensive piece of kit that lives in
isolation. It's locked by a bar through its frame. I could steal it in
half an hour with just a hacksaw, but I'd have to seriously damage the
machine (not usable, manufacturer-only fix) in doing so. The "bar" is
scaffold pipe, with a good alloy chain in it, also filled with hard
aggregate concrete. You need both angle grinder and gas axe to remove
it that way.


Or some thermite. It should only take 60 seconds or so to remove such a pole
if you can mould clay.

On Dec 30, 8:10*am, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Or some thermite. It should only take 60 seconds or so to remove such a pole
if you can mould clay.

But wouldn't that be _Dangerous_ Dennis?

What would Nanny say?


(Apart from Thermite being rubbish at cutting anything more than an
inch wide)

On Dec 30, 2:20 am, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Dec 29, 8:51 pm, Jilly wrote:

Cables aren't really much use - always far too easy to cut. Chains are
what you need. You also need a good chain: welded links, good alloy,
probably trapezoidal section rod rather than round.

As to a padlock, then the Abus Diskus is still one of the best. The
shackle (weakest point) is short, straight(ish) and well guarded.

So Abus are better than Master Lock? Lots of people seem to be
picking them on Youtube.

BMW vs. General Motors.

First off, locks don't get picked. UK tea leaves just aren't that hard-
working. Also we have better padlocks than the Yanks, so picking just
never took off here the way it did over there. Don't ask me to explain
it - they have some fantastic locks and keying systems, then they put
them on houses made of chipboard. Last time I was burgled it was some
meathead Geordie who walked through a steel door, probably by chewing
it. Our thieves break stuff - they're not this subtle (unless you've
annoyed George Smiley).

If "lots of people" are picking them on YouTube, that's because
they're hard to do and it's impressive if you can pick them. You're
hardly going to brag about picking a Chinese three circle or a
MasterLock combination.

Abus make a range of padlocks. The little ones are no better than they
ought to be (still strong though). The mid-range stuff with 6 pins and
mushrooms (the longer cylinder is a bulge in the case) is quite good,
but they're easy picking if you know the way to do it (it's not the
normal technique, and I can't do it unless I can get my hands easily
onto the lock). The Diskus Plus is beyond me.

"Disk" padlocks are NOT all alike. Some are utter rubbish. There are
Chinese ones around that aren't fully welded and you can pop the cases
faster than picking. For another thing, don't trust a disk lock that
doesn't retain its key when open. I've not had my hands on a Master
Excel, their disk range (not particularly planning to), but I have
removed many of their other locks. Usually by breaking them, not by
picking.

I'm thinking about a small version of the T34 tank - welded box,
inaccessible padlock, half full of concrete and bolted into bedrock
with humungous rock bolts.

I've got an interest in an expensive piece of kit that lives in
isolation. It's locked by a bar through its frame. I could steal it in
half an hour with just a hacksaw, but I'd have to seriously damage the
machine (not usable, manufacturer-only fix) in doing so. The "bar" is
scaffold pipe, with a good alloy chain in it, also filled with hard
aggregate concrete. You need both angle grinder and gas axe to remove
it that way.

? why the gas axe?

Jim K

"Jim K" wrote in message
...

I've got an interest in an expensive piece of kit that lives in
isolation. It's locked by a bar through its frame. I could steal it in
half an hour with just a hacksaw, but I'd have to seriously damage the
machine (not usable, manufacturer-only fix) in doing so. The "bar" is
scaffold pipe, with a good alloy chain in it, also filled with hard
aggregate concrete. You need both angle grinder and gas axe to remove
it that way.

? why the gas axe?

Because he forgets that you can get angle grinder blades that will go
through all the materials he mentioned?

Anyway if you are taking a gas axe then some welding wire and a length of 15
mm copper pipe will make a thermic(al) lance that will go through the lot in
a few seconds and you only need the oxygen cylinder to save weight.

On Dec 30, 1:05*pm, Jim K wrote:

? why the gas axe?

Because it's a composite. You won't cut boron steel chain with a
diamond or grit stone blade (it's hard enough with a steel cutting
disk) and there's enough aggregate packed around the chain to stop you
getting a suitable steel disk onto it. You could do it with just a
grinder, but you'd have to take a great wedge out to expose the chain,
not just a quick slice.

Best example I've seen of this was a locking bike rack that used gas
turbine blades packed into the mix. Those are a right swine to cut, as
they just don't soften when you heat them. For safes it's fairly
common to use tungsten carbide as an aggregate in a cement layer.
Both of these are quite cheap, if you have the right access to scrap.

On Dec 30, 9:51 am, Jilly wrote:

Unfortunately the neighbours are a mile away.

I've tried pretty much every technique at several sites.
What has worked when there are no near neighbours is a "screamer"
alarm on the roof that carries for 2 km.
Otherwise sensor lights do scare most thieves away.
People are worried by fake CCTV cameras. I've had two of them stolen,
while the hidden real cameras video the thief.
However the police are seldom interested in photos and video footage,
even if I get car rego numbers. It's better to scare the crims off.

When we had padlocks, they were regularly cut with bolt cutters.
When I put steel sheet over the door and had flush locks nobody got in
again.