I have the feeling to this question maybe to get a SDS drill but here goes

Further to my washing line pulley questio nthe other week I now have my
parts and today I tried to drill into my concrete fence post. My normal
domestic drill on hammer mode wasn;t doing anything.

Whats the solution?

The drill bit wasn't the most expensive but I have a feeling it wouldn't
make much difference either way!

mo wrote:
I have the feeling to this question maybe to get a SDS drill but here
goes

Further to my washing line pulley questio nthe other week I now have
my parts and today I tried to drill into my concrete fence post. My
normal domestic drill on hammer mode wasn;t doing anything.

Whats the solution?

SDS. No chance whatsoever with anything else.

The drill bit wasn't the most expensive but I have a feeling it
wouldn't make much difference either way!

True!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


Couple of questions

1) if I get an SDS is there any real reason to keep my normal drill? They
still work like normal drills on wood/metal etc AFAIK - downside is that
they are much bigger!

2) Any difference between the difference type shapes? i.e the one I linked
above as opposed to the normal shaped drills that don;t have the fat bit
infront of the handle

3) Does the weight 5kg or 6kg just mean the higher weight the more heavy
duty?

4) Can the chisel action be used for something like taking out pointing on
a patio?


Anything else to think of?

mo wrote:

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


Couple of questions

1) if I get an SDS is there any real reason to keep my normal drill? They
still work like normal drills on wood/metal etc AFAIK - downside is that
they are much bigger!

SDS dont substitute well for an ordinary drill. They have the wrong
type of chuck, and if you fit a chuck adaptor you end up with a drill
that's excessively long, heavy and the bit waggles. They also dont
turn as fast.


2) Any difference between the difference type shapes? i.e the one I linked
above as opposed to the normal shaped drills that don;t have the fat bit
infront of the handle

the relevant differences in SDS a
- weight, 5kg gets tiring
- 1 versus 2 versus 3 function drills - get a 3.
- impact energy in joules
- whether the bit locks in position for chiselling
- and reliability/brand


3) Does the weight 5kg or 6kg just mean the higher weight the more heavy
duty?

not really, compare the impact energy


4) Can the chisel action be used for something like taking out pointing on
a patio?

angle grinder much better.


Anything else to think of?


NT

mo expressed precisely :
I have the feeling to this question maybe to get a SDS drill but here goes

Further to my washing line pulley questio nthe other week I now have my
parts and today I tried to drill into my concrete fence post. My normal
domestic drill on hammer mode wasn;t doing anything.

Whats the solution?

The drill bit wasn't the most expensive but I have a feeling it wouldn't
make much difference either way!

SDS will drill it, but it would be better overall if you could do it
without any drilling. Could a metal clamp/bracket be put around it
instead? Chances are if you drill you might hit a reinforcing bar in
the concrete.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 15/05/2010 01:50, mo wrote:
Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

The Screwfix one is a heavy, awkward brute. The Lidl one is cheaper,
more manageable and is up to the job. And far more likely to be usable
for other purposes, if needed. I have the equivalent they were selling
last year and actually rather like it. Well aware that it isn't up to
the standard of a Makita or Bosch blue, but perfectly adequate for my needs.

--
Rod

On 15 May, 07:38, Rod wrote:
On 15/05/2010 01:50, mo wrote: Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

The Screwfix one is a heavy, awkward brute. The Lidl one is cheaper,
more manageable and is up to the job. And far more likely to be usable
for other purposes, if needed. I have the equivalent they were selling
last year and actually rather like it. Well aware that it isn't up to
the standard of a Makita or Bosch blue, but perfectly adequate for my needs.

Yup - IMHO Screwfix not the place anymore for cheapo/introductory
tools for DIY...they could only offer me a "titan" 9"angle grinder for
£60 recently - next door at (gasp) Argos a perfectly-adequate-for-my-
needs-cheapo was £35 with 14 days no quibble return (and some form of
2year guarantee I expect will be not worth bothering with).

Cheers
JimK

In article ,
mo wrote:
Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


Couple of questions

1) if I get an SDS is there any real reason to keep my normal drill?
They still work like normal drills on wood/metal etc AFAIK - downside
is that they are much bigger!

Cheap ones tend to be bigger - but you can get ones which are closer to an
ordinary hammer drill in size. However, add a chuck for normal drills and
they may become longer. They don't usually give the speeds of a 'normal'
drill.

2) Any difference between the difference type shapes? i.e the one I
linked above as opposed to the normal shaped drills that don;t have the
fat bit infront of the handle

3) Does the weight 5kg or 6kg just mean the higher weight the more heavy
duty?

4) Can the chisel action be used for something like taking out pointing
on a patio?


Anything else to think of?

If you intend using it for chasing, I'd pay the extra for a smaller
lighter one. Most cheap ones are incredibly heavy which makes holding it
up to chase walls a true pain.

--
*I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't care.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2010-05-15 01:50:49 +0100, mo said:

Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

You'll have no problems finding uses for an SDS once you have one!


1) if I get an SDS is there any real reason to keep my normal drill? They
still work like normal drills on wood/metal etc AFAIK - downside is that
they are much bigger!

I use my (DeWalt, fairly light, 2kg I think) SDS for everything which
needs any amount of oomph. I don't have another corded drill (except
an el cheapo, very heavy, Aldi SDS which I use for really heavy duty
jobs). I use my Site/Makita drill/driver for everything else.

While I don't see any point with having a non SDS corded drill any
more, I do still plan to get an impact driver at some point when I feel
I can justify (i.e. lots of fairly hardcore screwing, like replacing
floors).

I'd recommeng getting accessories for your SDS, like a chuck to take
regular wood and driver bits, and a socket adaptor.

In article ,
Piers Finlayson wrote:
I use my (DeWalt, fairly light, 2kg I think) SDS for everything which
needs any amount of oomph.

That's what I have and have never found it wanting for any DIY task I've
needed it for. One of the best purchases I made - even although it was
very expensive when I bought it many years ago.

I don't have another corded drill (except
an el cheapo, very heavy, Aldi SDS which I use for really heavy duty
jobs). I use my Site/Makita drill/driver for everything else.

A cheap heavy one might make sense for breaking up lots of concrete - but
still wouldn't be butch enough for thick hard stuff.

While I don't see any point with having a non SDS corded drill any
more, I do still plan to get an impact driver at some point when I feel
I can justify (i.e. lots of fairly hardcore screwing, like replacing
floors).

Given how cheap a basic mains drill is, I'd still have one unless storage
is a problem. Most will already have one - so I wouldn't chuck it out.
Mine has a low speed screwdriving function so gets used for that if I've
got lots to do. And for drilling with large drills that my cordless won't
take.

I'd recommeng getting accessories for your SDS, like a chuck to take
regular wood and driver bits, and a socket adaptor.

They might just cost more than a basic mains drill. ;-) And if it's a plug
in chuck makes the thing longer - and they wobble. I did buy one but have
only used it when I haven't got an ordinary mains one to hand.

--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I'd recommeng getting accessories for your SDS, like a chuck to take
regular wood and driver bits, and a socket adaptor.

They might just cost more than a basic mains drill. ;-) And if it's a plug
in chuck makes the thing longer - and they wobble. I did buy one but have
only used it when I haven't got an ordinary mains one to hand.

Some posher SDS have interchangeable chucks - i.e. the sds chuck pops
off and the 3-jaw chuck pops on. Got this on my bosch, and either
chuck locks in place very solidly, no wobble at all.

In article , mo
scribeth thus
I have the feeling to this question maybe to get a SDS drill but here goes

Further to my washing line pulley questio nthe other week I now have my
parts and today I tried to drill into my concrete fence post. My normal
domestic drill on hammer mode wasn;t doing anything.

Whats the solution?

The drill bit wasn't the most expensive but I have a feeling it wouldn't
make much difference either way!


Save up yer pennies or coerce your other half/significant other to fork
out for an SDS drill..

After then you'll wonder just HOW it was you ever managed to get a hole
drilled in any masonry ..

My Makita M2945 IIRC cost 100 quid c/w some decent attachments.. SDS
drills good ones, last and aren't on the scale of things that expensive
either but Once you have one you'll wonder why you didn't get one
before!..

Don't go and buy a cheapie, fork out a few quid extra for something
better..

Best tool I've EVER bought.. ****es all over ordinary hammer drills..

Nuff said....
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
NT writes:
mo wrote:

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


Couple of questions

1) if I get an SDS is there any real reason to keep my normal drill? They
still work like normal drills on wood/metal etc AFAIK - downside is that
they are much bigger!

SDS dont substitute well for an ordinary drill. They have the wrong
type of chuck, and if you fit a chuck adaptor you end up with a drill
that's excessively long, heavy and the bit waggles.

On mine, the chuck quick releases from the body, and it came with a
standard chuck too, with same quick release mechanism (as well as
being a quick release check). Don't know how common that is, but it's
certainly very handy. There's no hammer action available with the
standard chuck - it deliberately doesn't engage with the hammer, so
you can't use any of your existing hammer action masonary bits, at
least not in hammer mode.

They also dont
turn as fast.

but have much higher torque - the drill doesn't stall just because
the bit jams. Either the drill body spins round, or the bit snaps
(or both), or if you bought one with a safety clutch, the clutch
slips providing you have a good grip on the drill, usually avoiding
a trip to A&E.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Rod wrote:
On 15/05/2010 01:50, mo wrote:
Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could
justify further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

The Screwfix one is a heavy, awkward brute. The Lidl one is cheaper,
more manageable and is up to the job. And far more likely to be usable
for other purposes, if needed. I have the equivalent they were selling
last year and actually rather like it. Well aware that it isn't up to
the standard of a Makita or Bosch blue, but perfectly adequate for my
needs.

Or like this:

I got one of these http://tinyurl.com/39e6yon (link goes to ebay) and it's
brilliant, highly recommended

John wrote:
Rod wrote:
On 15/05/2010 01:50, mo wrote:
Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could
justify further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

The Screwfix one is a heavy, awkward brute. The Lidl one is cheaper,
more manageable and is up to the job. And far more likely to be usable
for other purposes, if needed. I have the equivalent they were selling
last year and actually rather like it. Well aware that it isn't up to
the standard of a Makita or Bosch blue, but perfectly adequate for my
needs.

Or like this:

I got one of these http://tinyurl.com/39e6yon (link goes to ebay) and it's
brilliant, highly recommended



The cheap and heavy JCB I have is good for drilling into concrete, but
the chisel action is a bit of a joke on anything resembling hard
concrete. Well worth the 30 odd quid though.

In message , mo
wrote

3) Does the weight 5kg or 6kg just mean the higher weight the more heavy
duty?

I guess for the type of general purpose work you may be doing a 2kg
model would be a lot better.
--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"Rod" wrote in message
...
On 15/05/2010 01:50, mo wrote:
Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the link
doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

The Screwfix one is a heavy, awkward brute. The Lidl one is cheaper, more
manageable and is up to the job. And far more likely to be usable for
other purposes, if needed. I have the equivalent they were selling last
year and actually rather like it. Well aware that it isn't up to the
standard of a Makita or Bosch blue, but perfectly adequate for my needs.

--
Rod

What does 'SDS' mean anyway? 'Define: SDS' in google comes up with nothing
about drills.
What is it that makes 'SDS' able to do a job that a 'hammer' drill won't?

S

On 15 May, 15:12, "spamlet" wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message

...

On 15/05/2010 01:50, mo wrote:
Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the link
doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

The Screwfix one is a heavy, awkward brute. The Lidl one is cheaper, more
manageable and is up to the job. And far more likely to be usable for
other purposes, if needed. I have the equivalent they were selling last
year and actually rather like it. Well aware that it isn't up to the
standard of a Makita or Bosch blue, but perfectly adequate for my needs.

--
Rod

What does 'SDS' mean anyway? 'Define: SDS' in google comes up with nothing
about drills.
What is it that makes 'SDS' able to do a job that a 'hammer' drill won't?

S

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDS

in there somewhere :)

JimK

spamlet wrote:

What does 'SDS' mean anyway? 'Define: SDS' in google comes up with
nothing about drills.

Its the initial letters of 3 German words which mean 'insert, twist, lock',
or something like that. It can also apply to tool free blade change on a
jigsaw.

What is it that makes 'SDS' able to do a job that a 'hammer' drill
won't?

In our context the SDS chuck & drill shank allow movement of roughly 15mm in
and out - and also ensure the bit can't slip as it rotates.

The back of said bit is then thumped as it spins by a pnuematic piston
inside the drill.

A normal 'hammer' drill more or less just vibrates back & forth, an SDS
applies much more energy.

Chalk & cheese in use, concrete lintels, hard render, engineering bricks
will cause the bit to burn out on a hammer drill before the hole even
starts. SDS will sail through difficult materials like a knife through
butter. You have to try it to believe it.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Rod wrote in
:


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))





Does that one have a clutch safety thing? My first uses will be at
height so I don't want it jamming on me!

On 15 May, 18:02, mo wrote:
Rod wrote :

No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

Does that one have a clutch safety thing? My first uses will be at
height so I don't want it jamming on me!

IMHO clutch only "needed" when using core drills to cut large holes
for e.g. WC wastes, extractor fans holes etc.

My cheapo but heavy SDS doesn't have a clutch and I've not had any
probs without...

Cheers
JimK

JimK wrote:
On 15 May, 18:02, mo wrote:
Rod wrote
:

No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode
to somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

Does that one have a clutch safety thing? My first uses will be at
height so I don't want it jamming on me!

IMHO clutch only "needed" when using core drills to cut large holes
for e.g. WC wastes, extractor fans holes etc.

My cheapo but heavy SDS doesn't have a clutch and I've not had any
probs without...

Cheers
JimK

I would not even consider buying one without a safety clutch. May cost a few
quid more but it pays for itself the first time you _don't_ need to go to
A&E :-)

John Rumm wrote:
On 15/05/2010 15:12, spamlet wrote:

What does 'SDS' mean anyway? 'Define: SDS' in google comes up with
nothing
about drills.

Often incorrectly claimed to be special drill system or similar[1], it
was originally the German phrase: "Steck - Dreh - Sitz" translating to
Insert, Twist, Lock or similar.

[1] You can get (Bosch) jigsaws with SDS clamping mechanisms as well.

What is it that makes 'SDS' able to do a job that a 'hammer' drill won't?

By hitting the bit *much* harder while turning it.



...using a mechanism that has NOTHING to do with SDS bit locking
whatsoever...

So what you have is that SDS is a bit lock mechanism,m. But what people
MEAN by 'SDS drill' is one that has an impact mechanism different that
which is found in a normal 'non SDS' hammer drill that simply use
something like a cam system to judder the bit forwards and backwards.
The 'SDS 'has an impact system that literally hits the back of the shaft..

The fact that these two completely different and unrelated mechanisms
both appeared at the same time on the later generation of drills, is
what has completely confused the whole arena.

On 15/05/2010 18:02, mo wrote:
wrote in
:


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))





Does that one have a clutch safety thing? My first uses will be at
height so I don't want it jamming on me!

I am not sure - do wish Lidl would be a bit more comprehensive in their
descriptions. I *think* the one I bought last year (slightly different
model) has a clutch but I'd have to double-check to be sure.

--
Rod

Rod wrote in :

On 15/05/2010 18:02, mo wrote:
wrote in
:


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))





Does that one have a clutch safety thing? My first uses will be at
height so I don't want it jamming on me!

I am not sure - do wish Lidl would be a bit more comprehensive in their
descriptions. I *think* the one I bought last year (slightly different
model) has a clutch but I'd have to double-check to be sure.




It is annoying

Nearest LIDL is not too far so I might go down there tomorrw to see if its
in stock and see if there are any clues on the box.

spamlet has brought this to us :
What is it that makes 'SDS' able to do a job that a 'hammer' drill won't?

A very much harder impact on the tip of the bit. In the old days,
before SDS, when hammer drills appeared - If the hammer drill would not
make any headway in the hole, you would fall back onto a Rawldrill. A
hard triangular drill bit, in a holder which you hit repeatedly with a
hammer, turning slightly between each strike. They would drill through
anything, but it was hard work and took time. The SDS takes a similar
approach, a very hard blow on the tip of the bit combined with
comparatively slow rotation.

A hammer drill combines fast rotation with a much lighter blow on the
drill bit. Fine for material which is not so hard.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

mo laid this down on his screen :
It is annoying

Nearest LIDL is not too far so I might go down there tomorrw to see if its
in stock and see if there are any clues on the box.

There are no clues on the box.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote in
. uk:

mo laid this down on his screen :
It is annoying

Nearest LIDL is not too far so I might go down there tomorrw to see
if its in stock and see if there are any clues on the box.

There are no clues on the box.


Have you got one?

Anything in the manual?

I am guessing they would have mentioned it if it was a feature

Anyone seen one going for under £50 with the clutch and chisel feature?

on 15/05/2010, mo supposed :
Have you got one?

Yes


Anything in the manual?

Nothing I was able to find.

It has some useful things I have not seen before on any drills, as in a
power indicator and some system to detect when the motor brushes need
to be replaced.


I am guessing they would have mentioned it if it was a feature

Not necessarily. The cheapy I bought from Aldi 5 years ago didn't
mention it had a clutch, I only found out it did when it jammed. This
one improves on that by being to position lock the chisel, and has
variable speed forward and reverse.


Anyone seen one going for under £50 with the clutch and chisel feature?

I'm not convinced the clutch is really that essential. I have had many
drills grab in the past and a firm grip stalls them long enough to
release the trigger. These really are two handed tools, so even less
chance of your trigger arm being damaged.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"spamlet" wrote in message
...

"Rod" wrote in message
...
On 15/05/2010 01:50, mo wrote:
Thanks

I could be tempted into buying an SDS drill I spose if I could justify
further use.

Something like so:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/.../Direct-Power-
BS26S3-5kg-SDS-Plus-Drill


No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the link
doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode to
somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

The Screwfix one is a heavy, awkward brute. The Lidl one is cheaper, more
manageable and is up to the job. And far more likely to be usable for
other purposes, if needed. I have the equivalent they were selling last
year and actually rather like it. Well aware that it isn't up to the
standard of a Makita or Bosch blue, but perfectly adequate for my needs.

--
Rod

What does 'SDS' mean anyway? 'Define: SDS' in google comes up with
nothing about drills.
What is it that makes 'SDS' able to do a job that a 'hammer' drill won't?

S


Thanks for clearing that up chums. It did seem at first like just another
gimmick to make us buy more drill bits - especially after the click stop
keyless chucks came in: they should have made more of the hammer. Mind you,
now, from our earlier thread we have the additional confusion of the 'impact
driver' now being a power tool too!

Things used to be so much simpler...
;-)

Another question arises though (in my thinking about those very hard but
rather thin panels in my garage): is an SDS going to run the risk of
cracking concrete rather than drilling it?
Why do there seem to be no thin diamond drill bits for these hard but
delicate jobs?

Cheers,
S

on 15/05/2010, spamlet supposed :
Another question arises though (in my thinking about those very hard but
rather thin panels in my garage): is an SDS going to run the risk of cracking
concrete rather than drilling it?
Why do there seem to be no thin diamond drill bits for these hard but
delicate jobs?

You would need to be very gentle with an SDS on a panel garage.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
on 15/05/2010, spamlet supposed :
Another question arises though (in my thinking about those very hard but
rather thin panels in my garage): is an SDS going to run the risk of
cracking concrete rather than drilling it?
Why do there seem to be no thin diamond drill bits for these hard but
delicate jobs?

You would need to be very gentle with an SDS on a panel garage.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


Thought so: back to hanging things from bamboo threaded through the spare
bolt holes then!

S

I'm not convinced the clutch is really that essential. I have had many
drills grab in the past and a firm grip stalls them long enough to
release the trigger. These really are two handed tools, so even less
chance of your trigger arm being damaged.

That's my experience with a 2kg bosch-pro sds - using it with the 3-
jaw chuck and largish hole-cutter in timber. With a firm grip,
absorbing the forces of stalling the drill really wasn't a big deal.

I now have a DeWalt high-torque drill for large drillings in timber,
and that's another beast altogether. A much firmer grip, more caution,
and being ready to release the trigger very quickly is necessary -
it'll have a good go at spinning me round otherwise.

On 15 May, 19:10, "John" wrote:
JimK wrote:
On 15 May, 18:02, mo wrote:
Rod wrote
:

No - not like that. Like this:

http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10533.htm

(Current special, as of yesterday. If you want one, go today. If the
link doesn't work, go to their current specials - changing postcode
to somewhere in the South of England if it still doesn't appear.))

Does that one have a clutch safety thing? My first uses will be at
height so I don't want it jamming on me!

IMHO clutch only "needed" when using core drills to cut large holes
for e.g. WC wastes, extractor fans holes etc.

My cheapo but heavy SDS doesn't have a clutch and I've not had any
probs without...

Cheers
JimK

I would not even consider buying one without a safety clutch. May cost a few
quid more but it pays for itself the first time you _don't_ need to go to
A&E :-)

go on - do tell :)))

JimK

On May 15, 11:08*pm, "spamlet" wrote:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message

. uk...

on 15/05/2010, spamlet supposed :
Another question arises though (in my thinking about those very hard but
rather thin panels in my garage): is an SDS going to run the risk of
cracking concrete rather than drilling it?
Why do there seem to be no thin diamond drill bits for these hard but
delicate jobs?

You would need to be very gentle with an SDS on a panel garage.

Thought so: *back to hanging things from bamboo threaded through the spare
bolt holes then!

S

You can get mortar raking bits for angle grinders that can be used
like a short drill bit. Theyre abrasive coated, TC IIRC, so one ought
to do the job if you take care not to let it wander sideways.

I've drilled asbestos panels using a no-hammer drill years ago, it was
slow but did work. I've a feeling it was done with a twist drill, not
a masonry bit.


NT

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember mo saying something
like:

1) if I get an SDS is there any real reason to keep my normal drill? They
still work like normal drills on wood/metal etc AFAIK - downside is that
they are much bigger!

Keep your old drill for those times when you might need a bit more
precision. Otoh, I use the SDS drill for most things and find the
'wobbly' chuck thing to be over-stated. Let's face it, if you really
need some drilling precision you need a pillar drill.

2) Any difference between the difference type shapes? i.e the one I linked
above as opposed to the normal shaped drills that don;t have the fat bit
infront of the handle

Cheapness of construction for the Chinese factories. The bulky style
means it's easier to use (and fit in) larger gears of cheaper material.
The really properly heavy-duty drills use this style, but that's because
they need the room for proper HD gearing. The cheap ones copied this
style because it made sense for them and also made it look as if they
were HD, where they are not.

3) Does the weight 5kg or 6kg just mean the higher weight the more heavy
duty?

No. As I said above - the reverse is true for consumer items. A proper
HD drill/breaker is heavy and bulky (SDS Max), but decent makes of
consumer SDS are normally half the weight of the cheapies.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

The fact that these two completely different and unrelated mechanisms
both appeared at the same time on the later generation of drills, is
what has completely confused the whole arena.

What same time? Must be thirty years between them.

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

The fact that these two completely different and unrelated mechanisms
both appeared at the same time on the later generation of drills, is
what has completely confused the whole arena.

What same time? Must be thirty years between them.

I've a feeling there were pneumatic 'hammer' drills around before SDS but
fiendishly expensive.

--
*With her marriage she got a new name and a dress.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16 May, 11:57, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember mo saying something
like:

1) if I get an SDS is there any real reason to keep my normal drill? They
still work like normal drills on wood/metal etc AFAIK - downside is that
they are much bigger!

Keep your old drill for those times when you might need a bit more
precision. Otoh, I use the SDS drill for most things and find the
'wobbly' chuck thing to be over-stated. Let's face it, if you really
need some drilling precision you need a pillar drill.

2) Any difference between the difference type shapes? i.e the one I linked
above as opposed to the normal shaped drills that don;t have the fat bit
infront of the handle

Cheapness of construction for the Chinese factories. The bulky style
means it's easier to use (and fit in) larger gears of cheaper material.
The really properly heavy-duty drills use this style, but that's because
they need the room for proper HD gearing. The cheap ones copied this
style because it made sense for them and also made it look as if they
were HD, where they are not.

3) Does the weight 5kg or 6kg just mean the higher weight the more heavy
duty?

No. As I said above - the reverse is true for consumer items. A proper
HD drill/breaker is heavy and bulky (SDS Max), but decent makes of
consumer SDS are normally half the weight of the cheapies.

horses for courses shurely?

My ancient cheapo heavy SDS is only really called out for biggish/
roughish drilling jobs - say 10mm up, or chiselling out bigger
holes,,breaking small amounts of concrete etc... anything smaller -
cordless or mains ordinary hammer drills (equally cheapo)

Indeed a mate has a lightweight Dewalt SDS mains drill and I had a go
with it whilst helping him on a job - TBH I thought it was sh1te
compared to my big cheapo one or was I missing something?

IMHO if a job *needs* SDS you will usually want some weight behind it.

Cheers
JimK

On Sun, 16 May 2010 05:38:26 -0700 (PDT), JimK wrote:

IMHO if a job *needs* SDS you will usually want some weight behind it.

Define "needs".

I wanted to drill just one 6mm hole in sandstone outside yesterday.
Tried my battery drill with "hammer" action and a 4mm drill (had 6mm
bit to open it out later), it scratched the surface and made the bit
hot. Dragged out the mains 2kg SDS 10s of drilling later I had my 6mm
hole in one hit. That hole "needed" the SDS but it didn't "need" a
massive one.

Made me think I could use a battery SDS drill, until I (briefly)
looked at prices, seem to start at a couple of hundred quid... B-(

--
Cheers
Dave.