Any advice for what sort of drills to use for drilling old very tough
concrete. No holes will be less that 6 mm diameter.

I bought some from B&Q that were supposed to be for concrete but they were a
miserable failurs so were probably cheap and nasty ones.

Any advice would be great
thanks
Dave

"linkuk" wrote in message
...
Any advice for what sort of drills to use for drilling old very tough
concrete. No holes will be less that 6 mm diameter.

I bought some from B&Q that were supposed to be for concrete but they were
a miserable failurs so were probably cheap and nasty ones.

Any advice would be great
thanks
Dave

I meant no hole will be GREATER than 10mm.
Thanks

linkuk wrote:

"linkuk" wrote in message
...
Any advice for what sort of drills to use for drilling old very tough
concrete. No holes will be less that 6 mm diameter.

I bought some from B&Q that were supposed to be for concrete but they were
a miserable failurs so were probably cheap and nasty ones.

I meant no hole will be GREATER than 10mm.

What sort of power drill are you using?
Do you need one hole, or ten thousand?

The message
from "linkuk" contains these words:

Any advice for what sort of drills to use for drilling old very tough
concrete. No holes will be less that 6 mm diameter.

B&Q and all the other places do cheap SDS drills. They're magic and will
sail through even well hardened old concrete.

The walls here are concrete and I bust loads of drills and took nearly a
day to drill five holes once (luckily the neighbour that side was
utterly deaf).

SDS drill just slides in - about twenty seconds for a 3" deep 10mm hole.

Cost about £30.

The all look like this...
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18678&id=58494

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The machine is more important than the drill bit. A mains powered SDS
drill is the way to go.

For £25 - £35 you should be able to pickup an SDS drill from the
sheds or internet.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
linkuk wrote:

"linkuk" wrote in message
...
Any advice for what sort of drills to use for drilling old very tough
concrete. No holes will be less that 6 mm diameter.

I bought some from B&Q that were supposed to be for concrete but they
were
a miserable failurs so were probably cheap and nasty ones.

I meant no hole will be GREATER than 10mm.

What sort of power drill are you using?
Do you need one hole, or ten thousand?

Not just one but maybe a couple of dozen or so spread over a period of time
while in going through decoration rooms and replacing poor fixtures etc put
up by previous people but which are inadequte.

Thanks

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
linkuk wrote:

"linkuk" wrote in message
...
Any advice for what sort of drills to use for drilling old very tough
concrete. No holes will be less that 6 mm diameter.

I bought some from B&Q that were supposed to be for concrete but they
were
a miserable failurs so were probably cheap and nasty ones.

I meant no hole will be GREATER than 10mm.

What sort of power drill are you using?
Do you need one hole, or ten thousand?

Sorry forgot the first question:
Its a bosch mains drills with hammer action.

Netto had some half-decent[1] ones a fortnight ago, might still have a few
left? They came with a handful of SDS bits and chisels, spare brushes etc
for about 20 squid

Dave H.
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

[1] Looks rather identical to the Screwfix one, actually, and has the bits
included, so I bought one just for wall chasing (my Bosch GBH doesn't have a
rotation stop). Got to get the tool collection mania under control... The
baby table saw wasn't bad, either (OK for small work, eg frame + panel
doors, wouldn't want to run joists through it...)


wrote in message
ups.com...
The machine is more important than the drill bit. A mains powered SDS
drill is the way to go.

linkuk wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
linkuk wrote:

"linkuk" wrote in message
...
Any advice for what sort of drills to use for drilling old very tough
concrete. No holes will be less that 6 mm diameter.

I bought some from B&Q that were supposed to be for concrete but they
were
a miserable failurs so were probably cheap and nasty ones.

I meant no hole will be GREATER than 10mm.

What sort of power drill are you using?
Do you need one hole, or ten thousand?

Sorry forgot the first question:
Its a bosch mains drills with hammer action.

For occasional holes.

Simply taking any masonry bit, and leaning on it with the drill on
hammer action, with the chuck fastened, with more or less any drill,
going round the right way will work.

SDS is not needed - but will make the holes take well under a minute to
drill, instead of well over a minute to drill.

If the holes are vertical downwards, occasionally blowing out the holes
can help.
if they are horizontal, removing the drill from the hole several times
during drilling helps.

You need to lean on the drill enough so that the hammer action engages.

The message
from Ian Stirling contains these words:

SDS is not needed -

You've not tried the walls round here.

Using even very good quality masonry bits, in a hammer drill or hitting
the end with a hammer, just didn't go in. I've drilled holes in masonry
all over the country in various jobs, but for well aged concrete SDS is
sometimes the only way to go.

Other people in the row have had the same problem - nothing will go in
in a reasonable [1] time.

[1] Less than half an hour of sweating and swearing.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

In article ,
linkuk wrote:
What sort of power drill are you using?
Do you need one hole, or ten thousand?

Sorry forgot the first question:
Its a bosch mains drills with hammer action.

If the concrete is hard it will laugh at a hammer drill and masonry bit.
The only way to go is SDS.

--
*Avoid clichés like the plague. (They're old hat.) *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Guy King wrote:

The all look like this...
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18678&id=58494

appart from the decent light weight ones that look more like:-

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...54139&ts=29848


The OP might want to look at the Drills and Drilling FAQ as well:
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/drillfaq.htm

and the SDS one:

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/sds.htm


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave H. wrote:
Netto had some half-decent[1] ones a fortnight ago, might still have a few
left? They came with a handful of SDS bits and chisels, spare brushes etc
for about 20 squid

Dave H.
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

[1] Looks rather identical to the Screwfix one, actually, and has the bits
included, so I bought one just for wall chasing (my Bosch GBH doesn't have a
rotation stop). Got to get the tool collection mania under control... The
baby table saw wasn't bad, either (OK for small work, eg frame + panel
doors, wouldn't want to run joists through it...)


wrote in message
ups.com...
The machine is more important than the drill bit. A mains powered SDS
drill is the way to go.



6 years ago I moved into bungalow that needed a lot of TLC. I used
countless drills on the bricks, which are Staffordshires. when I had
almost finished I bought an SDS, now hot knife and butter comes to mind.
If the trouble and strife is against the spend get her to try drilling
the holes. ;-)

--
Please do not reply to this Email address,
as all Emails are deleted before opened.

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18678&id=58494

appart from the decent light weight ones that look more like:-

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...54139&ts=29848

As far as I know, none of the cheapies look like that, which was the
point I was making.

Oh, and for some reason B&Q don't put the SDS cheapie with the other
drills - it's off somewhere else.

Talking of cheapies. I bought a pull-mitre saw today from Argos. And
it's going back first thing in the morning. The pull slide is supposed
(I hope) to be supported on bearings, but this one has a nasty groove up
the slide and makes a horrid grating noise. And it's not really very
well made, either. So I'll go get the B&Q one instead.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Ian Stirling wrote:
Simply taking any masonry bit, and leaning on it with the drill on
hammer action, with the chuck fastened, with more or less any drill,
going round the right way will work.

before I got the SDS I was getting through 6mm bits pretty quickly -
bought a B+D "pyranha" (IIRC) bit which was quicker and lasted much
better - still got it but it's getting a bit blunt now.

--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder dot co dot uk

linkuk wrote:
"linkuk" wrote...
Any advice for what sort of drills to use for drilling old very tough
concrete. No holes will be less that 6 mm diameter.

I bought some from B&Q that were supposed to be for concrete but they were
a miserable failurs so were probably cheap and nasty ones.


Do you mean drill bits for your existing "conventional hammer"
drill? If so, then drill smaller diameter pilot holes (e.g. 5mm)
and then use the larger size. Don't push hard when using the
larger diameter.


Any advice would be great
I meant no hole will be GREATER than 10mm.

If you want to buy a drill just for drilling holes in masonry, that
you're going to use for more than the odd hole, but a cheap "SDS"
drill, and use virtually any brand/cost bit.

Chris Hodges wrote:
before I got the SDS I was getting through 6mm bits pretty quickly -
bought a B+D "pyranha" (IIRC) bit which was quicker and lasted much
better - still got it but it's getting a bit blunt now.

Is that the thing with a tit on the end, like a "bullet"
drill bit? Just sharpen it. Blunt masonry bits are a real
PITA.

Guy King wrote:

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:


http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18678&id=58494


appart from the decent light weight ones that look more like:-


http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...54139&ts=29848


As far as I know, none of the cheapies look like that, which was the
point I was making.

Appart from:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Powe...ols/d40/sd2670

(second one down)

;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

for 10mm, i think SDS is advisable. I got a bosch sds, its very
effective and drills really fast.

hammer drills are better for drilling through tiles than a rotary
hammer though

In article . com,
wrote:
for 10mm, i think SDS is advisable. I got a bosch sds, its very
effective and drills really fast.

hammer drills are better for drilling through tiles than a rotary
hammer though

Even a hammer drill can smash tiles, though. Best to switch it off.

--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I agree but when it goes beyond the tile and into the wall, the sds
seems to chip the tile more than a hammer drill.

So i would normally go for a hammer drill for tiled walls and sds for
normal. just remember to off the hammer until the file is through.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
linkuk wrote:
What sort of power drill are you using?
Do you need one hole, or ten thousand?

Sorry forgot the first question:
Its a bosch mains drills with hammer action.

If the concrete is hard it will laugh at a hammer drill and masonry bit.
The only way to go is SDS.

Why? SDS is only how the bit is held in, it says nothing about the power
of the drill, its hammer action, or the quality of the bit being used,
all of which seem rather more relevant than three letter painted on the
side of the drill casing...

I have found the BIT quality to be the key thing, followed by a good
hammer action. You need to smash through embedded flints. This takes
more than a run of the mill masonry bit.

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

As far as I know, none of the cheapies look like that, which was the
point I was making.

Appart from:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Powe...ols/d40/sd2670

(second one down)

;-)

That's not a cheapie - that's 50 quid!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Chris Hodges wrote:

before I got the SDS I was getting through 6mm bits pretty quickly -
bought a B+D "pyranha" (IIRC) bit which was quicker and lasted much
better - still got it but it's getting a bit blunt now.


Is that the thing with a tit on the end, like a "bullet"
drill bit? Just sharpen it. Blunt masonry bits are a real
PITA.

That sounds like the one. Havn't used it in anything harder than
aerated block in a while, since I got the SDS, otherwise I probably
would have done (or as likely replaced it).

--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder dot co dot uk

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Why? SDS is only how the bit is held in, it says nothing about the power
of the drill, its hammer action, or the quality of the bit being used,
all of which seem rather more relevant than three letter painted on the
side of the drill casing...

I suppose technically you could build a non SDS with an SDS-style hammer
action, but I've never seen one.

--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder dot co dot uk

Guy King wrote:
The message from John Rumm contains these words:

As far as I know, none of the cheapies look like that, which was the
point I was making.

Appart from:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Powe...ols/d40/sd2670

(second one down) ;-)

That's not a cheapie - that's 50 quid!

It's also a Silverline thing. There's a belt sander there, too, at £34
1 1/2 times more expensive than the one I looked at in Aldi yesterday,
which also had the benefit of being variable-speed.

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

I have found the BIT quality to be the key thing, followed by a good
hammer action.

I've found that pneumatic SDS drills (are there any other sort?) will
sail through concrete no matter how cheap the bits. "Impact" drills
struggle no matter what bits you put in 'em.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:
Appart from:


http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Powe...ols/d40/sd2670


(second one down)


;-)


That's not a cheapie - that's 50 quid!

Aright, try part number 88952 (about half way down the above page)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If the concrete is hard it will laugh at a hammer drill and masonry
bit. The only way to go is SDS.

Why? SDS is only how the bit is held in, it says nothing about the power
of the drill, its hammer action, or the quality of the bit being used,
all of which seem rather more relevant than three letter painted on the
side of the drill casing...

If you say so. I take it you've never used either on something hard?

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

That's not a cheapie - that's 50 quid!

Aright, try part number 88952 (about half way down the above page)

Trouble with the lighter drills is they offer a much lower impact
energy. The 5kg model that everyone sells gets the job done very nicely.

Also, small boys enjoy using it to break up concrete that's set in a
lump in the barrow.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:
The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

That's not a cheapie - that's 50 quid!

Aright, try part number 88952 (about half way down the above page)

Trouble with the lighter drills is they offer a much lower impact
energy. The 5kg model that everyone sells gets the job done very nicely.

Cheaper lighter ones all suffer from this.
More expensive lighter ones do OK.

Guy King wrote:

Trouble with the lighter drills is they offer a much lower impact
energy. The 5kg model that everyone sells gets the job done very nicely.

Depends on the job... for breaking up a patio you may be right. But for
neatly chasing a wall for a cable run and then chopping out a socket
back box hole, the control and finesse you get with the decent drills
makes the job easy rather than almost impossible. (being able to lock
off the chisel at an angle of rotation you choose, and then use very
light and controllable hammer action to get a cut started is a massive
step forward from the all or nothing jump all over the place action you
get from some of the cruder beasties)

Also, small boys enjoy using it to break up concrete that's set in a
lump in the barrow.

Same applies to big boys I am sure ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Why? SDS is only how the bit is held in, it says nothing about the power
of the drill, its hammer action, or the quality of the bit being used,

Have you ever seen a SDS drill that does not also have the enhanced
pnumatic hammer action that the world has come to associate with "SDS"?

all of which seem rather more relevant than three letter painted on the
side of the drill casing...

I have found the BIT quality to be the key thing, followed by a good
hammer action. You need to smash through embedded flints. This takes
more than a run of the mill masonry bit.

With a conventional hammer drill, you are right - a good bit can make
the difference between a hole in a wall and a small dent plus lots of
swearing. With SDS drills however I have found you are going to get a
hole almost regardless of what you stick in the end!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

a rotary hammer works differently from a hammer drill. thats why the
chuck is different to necessitate the drilling.

if you were an expensive sds bit, cut the shank and place the bit into
a hammer drill, its performance would be no where near that of a rotary
hammer using a cheap $2 bit



its in the design of the drill, sds is just the tip of an iceberg.

wrote:
a rotary hammer works differently from a hammer drill. thats why the
chuck is different to necessitate the drilling.

if you were an expensive sds bit, cut the shank and place the bit into
a hammer drill, its performance would be no where near that of a rotary
hammer using a cheap $2 bit



its in the design of the drill, sds is just the tip of an iceberg.


Precisely.

Its in the hammer action, not in the fact it says 'SDS' on it.

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

Its in the hammer action, not in the fact it says 'SDS' on it.

However, SDS has become a convenient shorthand for "pneumatic impact"

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:
The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

Its in the hammer action, not in the fact it says 'SDS' on it.

However, SDS has become a convenient shorthand for "pneumatic impact"

Has it?

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its in the hammer action, not in the fact it says 'SDS' on it.

However, SDS has become a convenient shorthand for "pneumatic impact"

Has it?

Pneumatic 'conventional' hammer drills *were* once available at a vast
price, but are any now? Can't see the point since SDS works so well.

--
*Xerox and Wurlitzer will merge to market reproductive organs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its in the hammer action, not in the fact it says 'SDS' on it.
However, SDS has become a convenient shorthand for "pneumatic impact"

Has it?

Pneumatic 'conventional' hammer drills *were* once available at a vast
price, but are any now? Can't see the point since SDS works so well.


My real point is that 'SDS' is simply a name, and has no actual
relationship to drill *quality* other than it specifies a certain form
of chuck/drill interface.

Which is why I am unhappy that everyone says 'get an SDS' rather than
'get a Makita XYZ 5000'