(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday)

A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary
workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is
the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in
winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or
eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows
isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that
are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but
there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in
the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at
roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on
the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means
running a generator which is expensive and noisy.

So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and
ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2
fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need
a vapour barrier behind the ply?

Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big
will I need?

--

"The Other Mike" wrote in message
...
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday)

A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary
workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is
the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in
winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or
eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows
isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents
that
are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit
but
there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in
the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at
roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on
the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan
means
running a generator which is expensive and noisy.

So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and
ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2
fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I
need
a vapour barrier behind the ply?

Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big
will I need?

--

Someone I know had the inside of his workshop / container sprayed with
polyurathane foam. He had about 1" to stop condensation but you could
have it sprayed any depth you want. I looked at it before I had my
workshop done and it was entirely satisfactory. I had 100mm sprayed on
my barn roof, and 75mm on the walls - then I lined the walls with 18mm
osb to make them useful for cupboards / shelves etc

AWEM

On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:33:35 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday)

A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary
workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is
the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in
winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or
eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows
isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that
are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but
there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in
the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at
roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on
the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means
running a generator which is expensive and noisy.

So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and
ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2
fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need
a vapour barrier behind the ply?

Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big
will I need?

How about sun reflecting paint?
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Solar-Reflec...214?tapopen=cm

It's not something I've used myself, but it gets some good reviews.

On Apr 29, 1:33*pm, The Other Mike
wrote:
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday)

A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary
workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is
the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in
winter. * The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or
eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. * Fitting windows
isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that
are fitted are hopeless. *Working with the doors open helps a bit but
there is next to no shade in the morning and only a *bit late on in
the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at
roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on
the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. *Running a fan means
running a generator which is expensive and noisy.

So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and
ceiling with some rockwool. * *Could *I just batten it out with 2x2
fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need
a vapour barrier behind the ply?

Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big
will I need?

Papercrete would be cheaper.
I'd also arrange shade over the container, as desipte the insulation
you'll have very little thermal capacity. And paint the exterior
white.


NT

The Other Mike wrote:
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday)

A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary
workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is
the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in
winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or
eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows
isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that
are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but
there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in
the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at
roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on
the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means
running a generator which is expensive and noisy.

So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and
ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2
fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need
a vapour barrier behind the ply?

Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big
will I need?


Jablite (polystyrene) sheets might be easier. Just glue them straight on
to the metal? Unlike battens, I think you'd get a good bond over a wide
area that way, and then maybe stick some plasterboard to that? Second
question mark. My way of saying I've never done this :-)

The Other Mike wrote:
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday)

A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary
workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is
the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in
winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or
eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows
isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that
are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but
there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in
the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at
roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on
the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means
running a generator which is expensive and noisy.

So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and
ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2
fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need
a vapour barrier behind the ply?

Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big
will I need?


Line with celotex, and if its semi-permanent, try and put some mass
inside the celotex so that it slows down temp changes.

On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:33:35 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote:

(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday)


Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big
will I need?

Seems the most significant gain would be from providing shade - if you
can do that then it shouldn't get much above ambient temp. Some sort
of external secondary roof, maybe an adapted shed roof, fitted to
allow plenty of air to circulate underneath. Or try turfing the roof?
Or grow ivy up and over it?

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Other Mike
saying something like:

So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and
ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2
fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need
a vapour barrier behind the ply?

Not rockwool or fibreglass against a steel structure - permanently wet,
even if you install a vapour barrier, it would need to be perfect.
I'd spray it with foam, as suggested.

Owain wrote:
On 29 Apr, 13:33, The Other Mike wrote:
... Running a fan means
running a generator which is expensive and noisy.

You can get small roof fitting solar-powered ventilator fans for use
on cars/trucks.

....caravans and boats.

There are also Savonius rotor powered fans, which only need a light
breeze to work.

It might also help if you fit a 'safari roof' over the container, just
wriggly tin on a frame, but would mean the heat build-up would occur
between the tin and the container rather than inside the container.

I would use grey PVC box section, rather than iron, as it should
transmit less heat to the cavity below it.

http://www.casupply.co.uk/acatalog/b...of_sheets.html

I would also mount alternate sheets at two different heights, to create
vents between the sheets, Unlike a Land Rover, we hope that the
container won't be moving to keep a wind blowing under the roof even on
a still day.

A false outer wall on the side(s) that get most sun would probably also
be necessary, but that can be continuous and simply have gaps top and
bottom.

Colin Bignell

Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea
but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to
a single metal skin.

Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with
climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the
doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat.


--

The Other Mike wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea
but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to
a single metal skin.

Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with
climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the
doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat.



I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time
in a caravan during extreme weather :-)
Given that you want the option to fix shelves, I'd go with battens/
Jablite rather than wool, mainly for ease of installation, but also the
fact that it doesn't hold moisture. I imagine condensation will be an
issue with a metal structure.

On 29 Apr, 13:50, pete wrote:

How about sun reflecting paint?http://www.wickes.co.uk/Solar-Reflec...ing-Paint/invt...

It's not something I've used myself, but it gets some good reviews.

It's usually better to fit a "safari roof" (old Land Rovers) and make
that into the reflector. A sheet of something spaced about an inch
outside of the main roof, with an airgap beneath. As the safari roof
doesn't have to be waterproof, it can be made simply without having to
seal the gaps. Metal or Versapanel will do.

I'd think hard about a green roof instead, with an inch or two of foam
insulation between it and the container.

On Sat, 01 May 2010 08:49:33 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote:


Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with
climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the
doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat.

Suggest fit the pvc box section as suggested earlier, but mounted on
battens to leave as much air gap as poss, and room at the bottom for
air to get in. Oh, and paint everything brilliant white.

On Sat, 01 May 2010 22:16:49 +0100, Simon C. . wrote:

On Sat, 01 May 2010 08:49:33 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote:


Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with
climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the
doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat.

Suggest fit the pvc box section

To the doors, just to be clear. I would think its pretty light and
wouldn't strain the hinges.

The Other Mike wrote:
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday)

A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary
workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is
the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in
winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or
eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows
isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that
are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but
there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in
the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at
roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on
the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means
running a generator which is expensive and noisy.

So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and
ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2
fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need
a vapour barrier behind the ply?

Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big
will I need?

I once read a thread about conservatories and keeping the temperature
down and I was told that once the heat got though the glass, there was
nothing you could do to keep the internal temps down. You have to stop
the heat from getting through the skin of the container before it warms
up the interior. I am no expert as to how to do this, but your idea of
lining the roof and walls will only keep it warm in winter. See what
others think.

Dave

Simon C. .
wibbled on Saturday 01 May 2010 22:18

On Sat, 01 May 2010 22:16:49 +0100, Simon C. . wrote:

On Sat, 01 May 2010 08:49:33 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote:


Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with
climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the
doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat.

Suggest fit the pvc box section

To the doors, just to be clear. I would think its pretty light and
wouldn't strain the hinges.

I'd think you'd be hard pressed to strain the hinges on a shipping
container

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

In message , Tim Watts
writes

To the doors, just to be clear. I would think its pretty light and
wouldn't strain the hinges.

I'd think you'd be hard pressed to strain the hinges on a shipping
container

I used to think that too. The top one, of 3, on mine sheared off
recently. Now got to figure out how to weld a new pin in place. Don't
fancy the idea of lifting the door off!




--
Bill

On Sat, 01 May 2010 09:42:46 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time
in a caravan during extreme weather :-)

Stopping the heat getting through the first skin is important,
insulation will slow that heat down but it the laws of thermo
dynamics mean it will even out in the end. The safari roof would stop
a lot of the heat getting in in the first place.

Given that you want the option to fix shelves, I'd go with battens/
Jablite rather than wool, mainly for ease of installation, but also the
fact that it doesn't hold moisture. I imagine condensation will be an
issue with a metal structure.

Yes, insulation inside as well for condensation, remember to tape
joins and/or have a DPM on the warm side of some sort. The battening
or ply lining will give something to fix things to.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 01/05/2010 09:42, stuart noble wrote:
The Other Mike wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea
but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to
a single metal skin.

Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with
climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the
doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat.

I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time
in a caravan during extreme weather :-)

How about using exterior insulation products such as done to the outside
of houses?

--
Adrian C

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 01 May 2010 09:42:46 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time
in a caravan during extreme weather :-)

Stopping the heat getting through the first skin is important,
insulation will slow that heat down but it the laws of thermo
dynamics mean it will even out in the end. The safari roof would stop
a lot of the heat getting in in the first place.

Given that you want the option to fix shelves, I'd go with battens/
Jablite rather than wool, mainly for ease of installation, but also the
fact that it doesn't hold moisture. I imagine condensation will be an
issue with a metal structure.

Yes, insulation inside as well for condensation, remember to tape
joins and/or have a DPM on the warm side of some sort. The battening
or ply lining will give something to fix things to.


My loft is insulated top and bottom, the original 100mm wool on the
floor and, subsequently, bats between rafters for when I used to work up
there a bit in winter. I can't tell whether it's summer or winter up
there, the temperature is remarkably stable year round, despite no heating.

On May 2, 10:53*am, Adrian C wrote:
On 01/05/2010 09:42, stuart noble wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea
but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to
a single metal skin.

Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with
climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the
doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat.

I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time
in a caravan during extreme weather :-)

How about using exterior insulation products such as done to the outside
of houses?


Insulation needs to be exterior really. If its interior you'll get
interstitial condensation, the metal will rust badly, the insualtion
will saturate and conduct, and evil moulds will flourish. Unless you
laeve a gap from the metal and drill vent/drain holes.


NT

On May 1, 9:44*am, Cicero wrote:

Russian vine ('Mile-a-minute') is much quicker than ivy. A few
strategically placed plants would make your workshop invisible in a couple
of years.

Cic.


It will. But its also exceptionally invasive and a complete nightmare
to control, even with glyphosate. Just say no! Try something you'll
appreciate like passionfruit. Fast growing, easy to control, decisuous
for winter sun, pretty flowers and fruit too. Ivy's way too slow.


NT

NT wrote:
On May 2, 10:53 am, Adrian C wrote:
On 01/05/2010 09:42, stuart noble wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea
but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to
a single metal skin.
Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with
climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the
doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat.
I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time
in a caravan during extreme weather :-)
How about using exterior insulation products such as done to the outside
of houses?


Insulation needs to be exterior really. If its interior you'll get
interstitial condensation, the metal will rust badly, the insualtion
will saturate and conduct, and evil moulds will flourish. Unless you
laeve a gap from the metal and drill vent/drain holes.


NT

Rockwool holds water, but polystyrene doesn't. The container walls may
be ribbed, which would provide ready made gaps behind the
battens/insulation. Any condensation would then drain down to the inside
floor, where at least you could see what you're dealing with.

Quite agree about the passion flower. It would cover the whole thing in
a couple of months, but would need to be south facing, and have a
structure (just string will do) to climb up. They don't have suckers
like other climbers. A bit of a mess in winter though if mine is
anything to go by.

On May 3, 10:39*am, stuart noble wrote:
NT wrote:
On May 2, 10:53 am, Adrian C wrote:
On 01/05/2010 09:42, stuart noble wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea
but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to
a single metal skin.
Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with
climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the
doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat.
I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time
in a caravan during extreme weather :-)
How about using exterior insulation products such as done to the outside
of houses?

Insulation needs to be exterior really. If its interior you'll get
interstitial condensation, the metal will rust badly, the insualtion
will saturate and conduct, and evil moulds will flourish. Unless you
laeve a gap from the metal and drill vent/drain holes.

NT

Rockwool holds water, but polystyrene doesn't. The container walls may
be ribbed, which would provide ready made gaps behind the
battens/insulation. Any condensation would then drain down to the inside
floor, where at least you could see what you're dealing with.

I've certainly had saturated polystyrene, but it wasnt being used as
wall insulation.


Quite agree about the passion flower. It would cover the whole thing in
a couple of months, but would need to be south facing, and have a
structure (just string will do) to climb up. They don't have suckers
like other climbers. A bit of a mess in winter though if mine is
anything to go by.

true - very rustic. OTOH the fruits hang on the vine for months
looking nice.


NT