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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday)
A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means running a generator which is expensive and noisy. So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2 fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need a vapour barrier behind the ply? Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big will I need? -- |
#2
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
"The Other Mike" wrote in message ... (resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday) A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means running a generator which is expensive and noisy. So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2 fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need a vapour barrier behind the ply? Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big will I need? -- Someone I know had the inside of his workshop / container sprayed with polyurathane foam. He had about 1" to stop condensation but you could have it sprayed any depth you want. I looked at it before I had my workshop done and it was entirely satisfactory. I had 100mm sprayed on my barn roof, and 75mm on the walls - then I lined the walls with 18mm osb to make them useful for cupboards / shelves etc AWEM |
#3
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:33:35 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday) A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means running a generator which is expensive and noisy. So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2 fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need a vapour barrier behind the ply? Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big will I need? How about sun reflecting paint? http://www.wickes.co.uk/Solar-Reflec...214?tapopen=cm It's not something I've used myself, but it gets some good reviews. |
#4
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
On 29 Apr, 13:50, pete wrote:
How about sun reflecting paint?http://www.wickes.co.uk/Solar-Reflec...ing-Paint/invt... It's not something I've used myself, but it gets some good reviews. It's usually better to fit a "safari roof" (old Land Rovers) and make that into the reflector. A sheet of something spaced about an inch outside of the main roof, with an airgap beneath. As the safari roof doesn't have to be waterproof, it can be made simply without having to seal the gaps. Metal or Versapanel will do. I'd think hard about a green roof instead, with an inch or two of foam insulation between it and the container. |
#5
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
On Apr 29, 1:33*pm, The Other Mike
wrote: (resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday) A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in winter. * The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. * Fitting windows isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that are fitted are hopeless. *Working with the doors open helps a bit but there is next to no shade in the morning and only a *bit late on in the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. *Running a fan means running a generator which is expensive and noisy. So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and ceiling with some rockwool. * *Could *I just batten it out with 2x2 fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need a vapour barrier behind the ply? Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big will I need? Papercrete would be cheaper. I'd also arrange shade over the container, as desipte the insulation you'll have very little thermal capacity. And paint the exterior white. NT |
#6
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
The Other Mike wrote:
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday) A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means running a generator which is expensive and noisy. So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2 fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need a vapour barrier behind the ply? Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big will I need? Jablite (polystyrene) sheets might be easier. Just glue them straight on to the metal? Unlike battens, I think you'd get a good bond over a wide area that way, and then maybe stick some plasterboard to that? Second question mark. My way of saying I've never done this :-) |
#7
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
The Other Mike wrote:
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday) A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means running a generator which is expensive and noisy. So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2 fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need a vapour barrier behind the ply? Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big will I need? Line with celotex, and if its semi-permanent, try and put some mass inside the celotex so that it slows down temp changes. |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:33:35 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote: (resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday) Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big will I need? Seems the most significant gain would be from providing shade - if you can do that then it shouldn't get much above ambient temp. Some sort of external secondary roof, maybe an adapted shed roof, fitted to allow plenty of air to circulate underneath. Or try turfing the roof? Or grow ivy up and over it? |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Other Mike saying something like: So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2 fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need a vapour barrier behind the ply? Not rockwool or fibreglass against a steel structure - permanently wet, even if you install a vapour barrier, it would need to be perfect. I'd spray it with foam, as suggested. |
#10
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea
but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to a single metal skin. Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat. -- |
#11
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
The Other Mike wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to a single metal skin. Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat. I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time in a caravan during extreme weather :-) Given that you want the option to fix shelves, I'd go with battens/ Jablite rather than wool, mainly for ease of installation, but also the fact that it doesn't hold moisture. I imagine condensation will be an issue with a metal structure. |
#12
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
On 01/05/2010 09:42, stuart noble wrote:
The Other Mike wrote: Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to a single metal skin. Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat. I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time in a caravan during extreme weather :-) How about using exterior insulation products such as done to the outside of houses? -- Adrian C |
#13
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
On May 2, 10:53*am, Adrian C wrote:
On 01/05/2010 09:42, stuart noble wrote: The Other Mike wrote: Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to a single metal skin. Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat. I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time in a caravan during extreme weather :-) How about using exterior insulation products such as done to the outside of houses? Insulation needs to be exterior really. If its interior you'll get interstitial condensation, the metal will rust badly, the insualtion will saturate and conduct, and evil moulds will flourish. Unless you laeve a gap from the metal and drill vent/drain holes. NT |
#14
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
NT wrote:
On May 2, 10:53 am, Adrian C wrote: On 01/05/2010 09:42, stuart noble wrote: The Other Mike wrote: Thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give up on the rockwool idea but it still needs lining out as it's not that easy to fix shelves to a single metal skin. Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat. I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time in a caravan during extreme weather :-) How about using exterior insulation products such as done to the outside of houses? Insulation needs to be exterior really. If its interior you'll get interstitial condensation, the metal will rust badly, the insualtion will saturate and conduct, and evil moulds will flourish. Unless you laeve a gap from the metal and drill vent/drain holes. NT Rockwool holds water, but polystyrene doesn't. The container walls may be ribbed, which would provide ready made gaps behind the battens/insulation. Any condensation would then drain down to the inside floor, where at least you could see what you're dealing with. Quite agree about the passion flower. It would cover the whole thing in a couple of months, but would need to be south facing, and have a structure (just string will do) to climb up. They don't have suckers like other climbers. A bit of a mess in winter though if mine is anything to go by. |
#15
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
On Sat, 01 May 2010 09:42:46 +0100, stuart noble wrote:
I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time in a caravan during extreme weather :-) Stopping the heat getting through the first skin is important, insulation will slow that heat down but it the laws of thermo dynamics mean it will even out in the end. The safari roof would stop a lot of the heat getting in in the first place. Given that you want the option to fix shelves, I'd go with battens/ Jablite rather than wool, mainly for ease of installation, but also the fact that it doesn't hold moisture. I imagine condensation will be an issue with a metal structure. Yes, insulation inside as well for condensation, remember to tape joins and/or have a DPM on the warm side of some sort. The battening or ply lining will give something to fix things to. -- Cheers Dave. |
#16
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 01 May 2010 09:42:46 +0100, stuart noble wrote: I think interior insulation is the only way. Ask anyone who's spent time in a caravan during extreme weather :-) Stopping the heat getting through the first skin is important, insulation will slow that heat down but it the laws of thermo dynamics mean it will even out in the end. The safari roof would stop a lot of the heat getting in in the first place. Given that you want the option to fix shelves, I'd go with battens/ Jablite rather than wool, mainly for ease of installation, but also the fact that it doesn't hold moisture. I imagine condensation will be an issue with a metal structure. Yes, insulation inside as well for condensation, remember to tape joins and/or have a DPM on the warm side of some sort. The battening or ply lining will give something to fix things to. My loft is insulated top and bottom, the original 100mm wool on the floor and, subsequently, bats between rafters for when I used to work up there a bit in winter. I can't tell whether it's summer or winter up there, the temperature is remarkably stable year round, despite no heating. |
#17
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
On Sat, 01 May 2010 08:49:33 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote: Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat. Suggest fit the pvc box section as suggested earlier, but mounted on battens to leave as much air gap as poss, and room at the bottom for air to get in. Oh, and paint everything brilliant white. |
#18
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
On Sat, 01 May 2010 22:16:49 +0100, Simon C. . wrote:
On Sat, 01 May 2010 08:49:33 +0100, The Other Mike wrote: Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat. Suggest fit the pvc box section To the doors, just to be clear. I would think its pretty light and wouldn't strain the hinges. |
#19
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
Simon C. .
wibbled on Saturday 01 May 2010 22:18 On Sat, 01 May 2010 22:16:49 +0100, Simon C. . wrote: On Sat, 01 May 2010 08:49:33 +0100, The Other Mike wrote: Thinking that a green roof might be a reasonably cheap option with climbers like ivy up the exposed sides. But that still leaves the doors that face due south and soak up masses of heat. Suggest fit the pvc box section To the doors, just to be clear. I would think its pretty light and wouldn't strain the hinges. I'd think you'd be hard pressed to strain the hinges on a shipping container -- Tim Watts Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer. |
#20
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
In message , Tim Watts
writes To the doors, just to be clear. I would think its pretty light and wouldn't strain the hinges. I'd think you'd be hard pressed to strain the hinges on a shipping container I used to think that too. The top one, of 3, on mine sheared off recently. Now got to figure out how to weld a new pin in place. Don't fancy the idea of lifting the door off! -- Bill |
#21
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Insulating and lining out a shipping container
The Other Mike wrote:
(resent due to my news server apparently dying yesterday) A shipping container that was originally supposed to be a temporary workshop is now going to be a permanent fixture, the only problem is the place gets hot in the summer and freezing cold in winter. The cold I can deal with by wearing a few more clothes or eating a few pies, the heat is more of an issue. Fitting windows isn't really an option for security reasons and the trickle vents that are fitted are hopeless. Working with the doors open helps a bit but there is next to no shade in the morning and only a bit late on in the day so that on an 18 deg C sunny day it is hitting 50 deg C at roof level internally by mid afternoon and I can feel the hot air on the back of my throat at 2ft6 below the ceiling. Running a fan means running a generator which is expensive and noisy. So I'm thinking of lining it out with ply and filling the walls and ceiling with some rockwool. Could I just batten it out with 2x2 fixed with a grab adhesive and then screw plywood to it or will I need a vapour barrier behind the ply? Would an air gap be a good idea next to the steel and if so how big will I need? I once read a thread about conservatories and keeping the temperature down and I was told that once the heat got though the glass, there was nothing you could do to keep the internal temps down. You have to stop the heat from getting through the skin of the container before it warms up the interior. I am no expert as to how to do this, but your idea of lining the roof and walls will only keep it warm in winter. See what others think. Dave |
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