Whenever I read of a copper cable or pipe theft the report inevitably
headlines the replacement cost - or the cost of the damage and not the
likely much smaller scrap value that the theft may have earned the thieves.

I think this appears to make thefts more attractive to the criminal
fraternity. Having seen the price of a length of copper pipe in B&Q, it
hardly seems worth getting caught stealing it and taking it to a scrap
dealer - and possibly sharing the proceeds.

On 22 Mar, 20:50, "John" wrote:
Whenever I read of a copper cable or pipe theft the report inevitably
headlines the replacement cost - or the cost of the damage and not the
likely much smaller scrap value that the theft may have earned the thieves.

I think this appears to make thefts more attractive to the criminal
fraternity. Having seen the price of a length of copper pipe in B&Q, it
hardly seems worth getting caught stealing it and taking it to a scrap
dealer - and possibly sharing the proceeds.

I`m not sure what you are trying to convey here,but this is my story.
I have a small factory unit which is too small for production so I was
using it as a store.Over two years ago when copper was £3.50/kg for
scrap it got broken into and stripped of every bit of copper in the
place.From the main switch out,everything was gone,even the 1.5mm twin
and earths feeding the lights in the offices.Cisterns,washbasins and
sinks were torn from the walls to get the short lengths of copper
going to the taps etc.Machines were smashed to get bits of
brass,aluminium,anything non ferrous.
I reckoned they would have got £1500-2000 for it all.Cost to me over
£40,000.
Do you really think these people don`t know the value of scrap?They
couldn`t give a monkeys about the new cost or the installation cost
because they`re not buying it.But,they know exactly what a bit of
scrap is worth as that`s how they live,on their wits.
To rub salt into the wound the council wouldn`t even consider a
reduction in the rates.
Mark.

"mark" wrote in message
...
On 22 Mar, 20:50, "John" wrote:
Whenever I read of a copper cable or pipe theft the report inevitably
headlines the replacement cost - or the cost of the damage and not the
likely much smaller scrap value that the theft may have earned the
thieves.

I think this appears to make thefts more attractive to the criminal
fraternity. Having seen the price of a length of copper pipe in B&Q, it
hardly seems worth getting caught stealing it and taking it to a scrap
dealer - and possibly sharing the proceeds.

I`m not sure what you are trying to convey here,but this is my story.
I have a small factory unit which is too small for production so I was
using it as a store.Over two years ago when copper was £3.50/kg for
scrap it got broken into and stripped of every bit of copper in the
place.From the main switch out,everything was gone,even the 1.5mm twin
and earths feeding the lights in the offices.Cisterns,washbasins and
sinks were torn from the walls to get the short lengths of copper
going to the taps etc.Machines were smashed to get bits of
brass,aluminium,anything non ferrous.
I reckoned they would have got £1500-2000 for it all.Cost to me over
£40,000.
Do you really think these people don`t know the value of scrap?They
couldn`t give a monkeys about the new cost or the installation cost
because they`re not buying it.But,they know exactly what a bit of
scrap is worth as that`s how they live,on their wits.
To rub salt into the wound the council wouldn`t even consider a
reduction in the rates.
Mark.



I was just making the point that the headlines would probably make it appear
that they made of with £40,000.

Your situation was clearly more than the frequent robbing of a bit of 15mm
copper that then causes a building to flood and cause thousands of pounds of
damage - for the sake of a fiver's worth of scrap.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
Whenever I read of a copper cable or pipe theft the report inevitably
headlines the replacement cost - or the cost of the damage and not the
likely much smaller scrap value that the theft may have earned the
thieves.

I think this appears to make thefts more attractive to the criminal
fraternity. Having seen the price of a length of copper pipe in B&Q, it
hardly seems worth getting caught stealing it and taking it to a scrap
dealer - and possibly sharing the proceeds.

On the bright side, at least it may encourage some of the dimmer ones to
remove themselves from the gene pool! ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/s...re/6337641.stm

Adam

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:24:48 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

This low level thievery is mindless and really is more a reflection of
the 'hunter gatherer' mentality of the people involved, ...

Interesting comparison. :-)

Talking of gas, remember BES do auto cutoff valves if a full-bore
escape occurs (eg, pipe or appliance vandalism).

Thus far you would think they are not interested in stealing
alkathene, but you would be wrong - some stole bright yellow 8-10in
gas mains sat overnight in a trench. Quite what they are going to do
with it I have no idea. Lightning arrestor busbar does not last 5
minutes and copper is merrily plodding upwards in price again.

At one industrial unit everything is plugged in via BS4343 and
trailing leads in open duct around the perimeter. Precisely because
they "got done over" for copper cable once before. If it happens again
the damage and downtime is limited. Probably breaks a few H&S
regulations, but the damage can be tremendous. Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid covers
in street, in carpark & in the building.

"John" wrote in message ...

Whenever I read of a copper cable or pipe theft the report inevitably
headlines the replacement cost - or the cost of the damage and not the
likely much smaller scrap value that the theft may have earned the thieves.

I think this appears to make thefts more attractive to the criminal
fraternity. Having seen the price of a length of copper pipe in B&Q, it
hardly seems worth getting caught stealing it and taking it to a scrap
dealer - and possibly sharing the proceeds.



The reasons why newspaper headlines only ever report the replacement value
rather than the scrap value are -

a) This is the reported value the insurers actually pay out on

b) Reporters normally get their information from the insurers or the people
who've been robbed, rather then the thieves themselves or their fences.

c) Criminals won't necessarily believe anything they read in newspapers
in any case. If only because they, and they alone, will be aware of the
extent to which even the most respectable of citizens will sometimes tend
to overstate the extent of their losses when making insurance claims.
Or possibly even understate their losses if under investigation by the
tax man. Especially where safe deposit boxes are concerned.


michael adams

....

On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.

This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.

Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.

This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.

Which great leap forward was that, then?

In article
..com, js.b1 scribeth thus
Talking of gas, remember BES do auto cutoff valves if a full-bore
escape occurs (eg, pipe or appliance vandalism).

Thus far you would think they are not interested in stealing
alkathene, but you would be wrong - some stole bright yellow 8-10in
gas mains sat overnight in a trench. Quite what they are going to do
with it I have no idea. Lightning arrestor busbar does not last 5
minutes and copper is merrily plodding upwards in price again.

Indeed and thats why a lot of broadcast and comms sites are now
converted to Ally as its not worth nicking...

Part from all that semi sticky paint they coat it with
--
Tony Sayer

On 23/03/2010 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.

This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.

Which great leap forward was that, then?

There's only one sufficiently famous and relevant to the conversation
about melting down everything for scrap.

Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.

This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.

Which great leap forward was that, then?

There's only one sufficiently famous and relevant to the conversation
about melting down everything for scrap.

well its not sufficiently famous for me to recall it.

On 23 Mar, 18:36, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.

This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.

Which great leap forward was that, then?

There's only one sufficiently famous and relevant to the conversation
about melting down everything for scrap.

* well its not sufficiently famous for me to recall it.

Probably this one;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward

See the paragraph about small-scale steel production, below the graph.

I had about half-a-dozen capilliary thermostats in a store at a former
job. Someone (an employee) cut off & stole the copper capilliaries
which, as the name suggests,were very thin tubes (2mm?) about 1m long.
£40 thermostats wrecked for 5p or 10p worth of copper,

Onetap wrote:
On 23 Mar, 18:36, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.
This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.
Which great leap forward was that, then?
There's only one sufficiently famous and relevant to the conversation
about melting down everything for scrap.
well its not sufficiently famous for me to recall it.

Probably this one;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward


Sorry, but I cant see how that relates to scarp thefts at all.

See the paragraph about small-scale steel production, below the graph.



ah. I see. Well its relevant to Nu Laber and G Brown, but hardly
relevant to scarp thefts.

Dickhead gets into power, has Great Ideas, sidelines all intelligent
people as elitists, and ****s things up totally. Meanwhile part
apparatchiks line their nests.

Yup. Browns communism all right.


"Village people... had come to associate socialism with starvation and
the agents of the party-state with the specter of death."

very familiar.

I had about half-a-dozen capilliary thermostats in a store at a former
job. Someone (an employee) cut off & stole the copper capilliaries
which, as the name suggests,were very thin tubes (2mm?) about 1m long.
£40 thermostats wrecked for 5p or 10p worth of copper,

On 23/03/2010 19:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Onetap wrote:
On 23 Mar, 18:36, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.
This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.
Which great leap forward was that, then?
There's only one sufficiently famous and relevant to the conversation
about melting down everything for scrap.
well its not sufficiently famous for me to recall it.

Probably this one;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward


Sorry, but I cant see how that relates to scarp thefts at all.

There there.

The relevant bit is that they melted down anything they could get their
hands on to make iron, and destroyed much while doing so. Same as with
the scrap thefts.

Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 19:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Onetap wrote:
On 23 Mar, 18:36, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid
covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.
This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.
Which great leap forward was that, then?
There's only one sufficiently famous and relevant to the conversation
about melting down everything for scrap.
well its not sufficiently famous for me to recall it.

Probably this one;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward


Sorry, but I cant see how that relates to scarp thefts at all.

There there.

The relevant bit is that they melted down anything they could get their
hands on to make iron, and destroyed much while doing so. Same as with
the scrap thefts.

Oh. But theydid it to satisfy the Party, not make beer money with.

On 23/03/2010 19:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 19:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Onetap wrote:
On 23 Mar, 18:36, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid
covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.
This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.
Which great leap forward was that, then?
There's only one sufficiently famous and relevant to the conversation
about melting down everything for scrap.
well its not sufficiently famous for me to recall it.

Probably this one;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward


Sorry, but I cant see how that relates to scarp thefts at all.

There there.

The relevant bit is that they melted down anything they could get
their hands on to make iron, and destroyed much while doing so. Same
as with the scrap thefts.

Oh. But theydid it to satisfy the Party, not make beer money with.

I didn't claim it was exactly the same. "reminiscent of".

On 23 Mar, 19:35, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 19:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Onetap wrote:
On 23 Mar, 18:36, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid
covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.
This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.
Which great leap forward was that, then?
There's only one sufficiently famous and relevant to the conversation
about melting down everything for scrap.
well its not sufficiently famous for me to recall it.

Probably this one;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward

Sorry, but I cant see how that relates to scarp thefts at all.

There there.

The relevant bit is that they melted down anything they could get their
hands on to make iron, and destroyed much while doing so. Same as with
the scrap thefts.

Oh. But theydid it to satisfy the Party, not make beer money with.- Hide quoted text -


The party members got their beer money out of it (or whatever the
preferred tipple is in those parts). The peasants/workers starved &
froze in their millions.
The other similarity is that all the scrap ends up in China.
The analogy is a bit subtle.

The UK had a similarly brainless program in WW2 when whole districts
were stripped of Victorian and Edwardian cast iron garden & park
railings and gates for scrap metal.
Allegedly, the painted cast iron was unsuitable for it's intended use
and was quietly dumped at sea.

Onetap wrote:
On 23 Mar, 19:35, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 19:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Onetap wrote:
On 23 Mar, 18:36, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Clive George wrote:
On 23/03/2010 12:12, js.b1 wrote:
Plastic pipes do not
help - they go after the taps for brass, even taking the grid
covers
in street, in carpark& in the building.
This is all getting a bit reminiscent of the great leap forward.
Which great leap forward was that, then?
There's only one sufficiently famous and relevant to the conversation
about melting down everything for scrap.
well its not sufficiently famous for me to recall it.
Probably this one;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward
Sorry, but I cant see how that relates to scarp thefts at all.
There there.
The relevant bit is that they melted down anything they could get their
hands on to make iron, and destroyed much while doing so. Same as with
the scrap thefts.
Oh. But theydid it to satisfy the Party, not make beer money with.- Hide quoted text -


The party members got their beer money out of it (or whatever the
preferred tipple is in those parts). The peasants/workers starved &
froze in their millions.
The other similarity is that all the scrap ends up in China.
The analogy is a bit subtle.

The UK had a similarly brainless program in WW2 when whole districts
were stripped of Victorian and Edwardian cast iron garden & park
railings and gates for scrap metal.
Allegedly, the painted cast iron was unsuitable for it's intended use
and was quietly dumped at sea.



IIRC that was aluminium pans, to make aircraft. The aluminium used for
pans is not of aircraft grade..

On 24 Mar, 11:35, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

IIRC that was aluminium pans, to make aircraft. The aluminium used for
pans is not of aircraft grade..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes; there was a similar program collecting scrap iron.
I grew up in London suburbs, terraces built in Victorian times. You
could run along the knee-high garden walls jumping over the gaps where
the gates had been. It was a bit of a shock recently to see a similar
house restored with the cast-ron railings on top of the walls and the
iron gates. Parks were also stripped of ornamental wrought-iron gates
and railings.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Onetap saying
something like:

The UK had a similarly brainless program in WW2 when whole districts
were stripped of Victorian and Edwardian cast iron garden & park
railings and gates for scrap metal.
Allegedly, the painted cast iron was unsuitable for it's intended use
and was quietly dumped at sea.

In actuality, it became an emergency reserve that was never needed.
Any steelworks could have used the CI, but during the war the normal
feed of ore and coal was sufficient to meet our needs.

Of greater importance was the public's feeling of 'being in it together'
and sacrificing a few garden railings for the greater good produced a
tremendous effect - in some cases an effect of great resentment

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Onetap wrote:

The UK had a similarly brainless program in WW2 when whole districts
were stripped of Victorian and Edwardian cast iron garden & park
railings and gates for scrap metal.
Allegedly, the painted cast iron was unsuitable for it's intended use
and was quietly dumped at sea.


IIRC that was aluminium pans, to make aircraft. The aluminium used for
pans is not of aircraft grade..

And iron railings, my grandparents house in Hackney (built c 1840) had
railings until c1940. And many London Squares have only recently got
them back eg Gordon Sq.



--
David Clark, MSc, PhD. UCL Centre for Publishing
Gower Str London WCIE 6BT
What sort of web animal are you?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/labuk/experiments/webbehaviour