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John Whitworth wrote:

I wonder if a lot of those people who really don't think there is an
issue would fancy sanding their asbestos roof, collecting the fibres up
into a bag, and then inhaling them. If they are so sure it's nonsense,
then it should be nothing to them.


I wouldn't do that with the dust from my vacuum, which is largely my
skin. Or flour, or anything else for that matter. Even if it doesn't
carry a cancer risk it's pretty unpleasant.

Andy
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John Whitworth wrote:


"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...

Unfortunately there is evidence that the reason _all_ types were
banned is so that someone could make a quick buck. White asbestos
cement roofs are more likely to cause a fall hazard than a cancer one.

Andy


Should have asked in the last post - can you provide that evidence
please? I would be interested to see it. Brown and blue asbestos were
banned for UK import in 1985 to my knowledge, with white being banned in
1999, under an EU-wide directive. Labour had promised to do it upon
election, but apparently Canadian opposition and lawsuits were too much
for any one country to take on.


Well I'm going to assume that you aren't asking for evidence of the lack
of man-carrying strength, so it must be the cancer risk

So.. a link or two...

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/338/22/1565

That's interesting as a Canadian study specifically stating that the (US
Government) EPA estimates for the risks are at least 10 times too high.

And there's a nice summary he

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/chemistry/Asbestos.html

Enough?

Andy
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"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
John Whitworth wrote:


"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...

Unfortunately there is evidence that the reason _all_ types were banned
is so that someone could make a quick buck. White asbestos cement roofs
are more likely to cause a fall hazard than a cancer one.

Andy


Should have asked in the last post - can you provide that evidence
please? I would be interested to see it. Brown and blue asbestos were
banned for UK import in 1985 to my knowledge, with white being banned in
1999, under an EU-wide directive. Labour had promised to do it upon
election, but apparently Canadian opposition and lawsuits were too much
for any one country to take on.


Well I'm going to assume that you aren't asking for evidence of the lack
of man-carrying strength, so it must be the cancer risk

So.. a link or two...

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/338/22/1565

That's interesting as a Canadian study specifically stating that the (US
Government) EPA estimates for the risks are at least 10 times too high.

And there's a nice summary he

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/chemistry/Asbestos.html

Enough?

Andy


Sorry - only just managed to plonk myself in front of the PC. Was finishing
part of the garage conversion yesterday - spraying the walls with a
fire-retardant mix of asbestos. ;-) Oh - OK - painting it with Dulux
emulsion! Anyway - thanks for these links.

Haven't read them properly yet - though a brief look at the first one shows
me two things that I immediately find questionable:

- the study was limited to women, to eliminate workers in the asbestos
industry
- [JW] so it would likely also eliminate anyone doing DIY asbestos removal
too? Surely factors like DIY working with the stuff should be taken into
account in any environmental assessment, as that's day-to-day usage?

- The results of this study are reassuring with respect to lung cancer, but
there were significant excess numbers of deaths due to pleural cancer (seven
deaths) and asbestosis (two deaths). The instances of pleural cancer suggest
an excess risk of mesothelioma. However, since historical death certificates
reflect the incidence of mesothelioma poorly we have launched a separate
study based on a province-wide survey of hospital records.

On the second article, much of the summarising at the end simply sounds like
the "yes, we as the asbestos industry know that blue asbestos is really bad,
and so by getting rid of that, we have cleaned up the industry".

I haven't scoured each article properly, as I said, and so I haven't found
evidence of "_all_ types were banned is so that someone could make a quick
buck".

JW

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John Whitworth wrote:

Sorry - only just managed to plonk myself in front of the PC. Was
finishing part of the garage conversion yesterday - spraying the walls
with a fire-retardant mix of asbestos. ;-) Oh - OK - painting it with
Dulux emulsion! Anyway - thanks for these links.


Paint in the garage? Isn't that a fire haz... oh. conversion _from_ a
garage?

Haven't read them properly yet - though a brief look at the first one
shows me two things that I immediately find questionable:

- the study was limited to women, to eliminate workers in the asbestos
industry
- [JW] so it would likely also eliminate anyone doing DIY asbestos
removal too? Surely factors like DIY working with the stuff should be
taken into account in any environmental assessment, as that's day-to-day
usage?

- The results of this study are reassuring with respect to lung cancer,
but there were significant excess numbers of deaths due to pleural
cancer (seven deaths) and asbestosis (two deaths). The instances of
pleural cancer suggest an excess risk of mesothelioma. However, since
historical death certificates reflect the incidence of mesothelioma
poorly we have launched a separate study based on a province-wide survey
of hospital records.

On the second article, much of the summarising at the end simply sounds
like the "yes, we as the asbestos industry know that blue asbestos is
really bad, and so by getting rid of that, we have cleaned up the
industry".

I haven't scoured each article properly, as I said, and so I haven't
found evidence of "_all_ types were banned is so that someone could make
a quick buck".


I haven't found evidence of white asbestos being a significant risk
outside some production facilities - and even then it looks as though
contamination with other types may be involved. Certainly smoking is
strongly linked.

I guess it depends whether you want to be precautionary safe and ban
everything that isn't proved safe, or ban only things that are proved
dangerous.

Andy
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On 8 Mar, 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:

I haven't found evidence of white asbestos being a significant risk
outside some production facilities


Then look harder. Claiming there's _no_ risk is farcical.


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Andy Dingley wrote:
On 8 Mar, 20:53, Andy Champ wrote:

I haven't found evidence of white asbestos being a significant risk
outside some production facilities


Then look harder. Claiming there's _no_ risk is farcical.


I absolutely agree. Who said there was no risk?

Links to papers showing a risk from _white_ asbestos _outside_
production would be appreciated.

Andy
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I have successfully cleaned (moss) corrugated grage roof few times, if still interested please email
(Jim)
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On Monday, 25 August 2014 17:50:23 UTC+1, wrote:
I have successfully cleaned (moss) corrugated grage roof few times, if still interested please email

(Jim)


go on then - how much?

Jim K
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On 25/08/14 17:50, wrote:
I have successfully cleaned (moss) corrugated grage roof few times, if still interested please email
(Jim)


I have an asbestos roof. How much to sandblast?
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"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 25/08/14 17:50, wrote:
I have successfully cleaned (moss) corrugated grage roof few times, if
still interested please email
(Jim)


I have an asbestos roof. How much to sandblast?


Pressure washer is better.




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"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 25/08/14 17:50, wrote:
I have successfully cleaned (moss) corrugated grage roof few times, if
still interested please email
(Jim)


I have an asbestos roof. How much to sandblast?


Pressure washer is better.


I used a pressure washer on mine. Works very well.




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On Wednesday, March 3, 2010 4:09:19 PM UTC, RobertL wrote:
I need to get up on the roof of my garage to remove the moss. I
don't have a feel for how much imposed weight I can put on a typical
asbestos garage roof before I crack the panels. The panels are
supported on wood beams about every 5 feet.

If I put up a couple of planks to spread my weight across two beams
would that be enough do you think?

I weigh 100kg clothed.

Robert


its an old post BUT...NEVER EVER JETWASH AN ASBESTOS ROOF. YOU WILL RELEASE ASBESTOS FIBRES!! TAKE ALOOK AT WWW.TRENOVA.CO.UK at their cleaning system!
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On 03/09/14 15:14, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/09/2014 14:28, Tim Watts wrote:


I wire brushed mine. At 8:30am when all the schoolkids were walking by.
Was I wrong?


Did you have PPE on?


No. I was doing aerobics in a leotard barefoot at the time so was
inhaling quite heavily. Made a boring job go much quicker.


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On 03/09/14 16:21, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/09/14 15:14, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/09/2014 14:28, Tim Watts wrote:


I wire brushed mine. At 8:30am when all the schoolkids were walking by.
Was I wrong?


Did you have PPE on?


No. I was doing aerobics in a leotard barefoot at the time so was
inhaling quite heavily. Made a boring job go much quicker.

... and chain smoking Malboroughs


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll
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On 03/09/14 16:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/14 16:21, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/09/14 15:14, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/09/2014 14:28, Tim Watts wrote:


I wire brushed mine. At 8:30am when all the schoolkids were walking by.
Was I wrong?

Did you have PPE on?


No. I was doing aerobics in a leotard barefoot at the time so was
inhaling quite heavily. Made a boring job go much quicker.

.. and chain smoking Malboroughs


Of course...

I used to put my pastie down on the roof in the sun - used to warm it up
nicely....

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On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:29:07 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/09/14 16:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/09/14 16:21, Tim Watts wrote:


On 03/09/14 15:14, Dennis@home wrote:


On 03/09/2014 14:28, Tim Watts wrote:




I wire brushed mine. At 8:30am when all the schoolkids were walking by.


Was I wrong?




Did you have PPE on?




No. I was doing aerobics in a leotard barefoot at the time so was


inhaling quite heavily. Made a boring job go much quicker.


.. and chain smoking Malboroughs




Of course...



I used to put my pastie down on the roof in the sun - used to warm it up

nicely....


I fell through a flat asbestos roof as a boy. Ripped a nice gash in the back
of my thigh. As I was laying face down on the operating table having it repaired I kept complaining about a pain in my foot. Finally to shut me up the surgeon told me to roll over while he examined it, a small cut in the top of my foot. 'Thats only a small cut. Nothing to worry about " but to stop me whinging he put a few stitches in it. Stitched a piece of asbestos into it. For a few years I had a strange bump there and then it started to get sore. Back to the hospital. It had turned gangrenous. Had to have it cut out.

I suppose if that happened today solicitors and barristers would have a field day but in those days the concept of an 'accident' still existed
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On Wednesday, March 3, 2010 at 4:36:53 PM UTC, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:09:19 -0800 (PST), RobertL
wrote:
I need to get up on the roof of my garage to remove the moss. I
don't have a feel for how much imposed weight I can put on a typical
asbestos garage roof before I crack the panels. The panels are
supported on wood beams about every 5 feet.

If I put up a couple of planks to spread my weight across two beams
would that be enough do you think?

I weigh 100kg clothed.

No chance. Not only is asbestos cement weak and brittle, but there is
the danger from asbestos fibres when it breaks, as it surely will with
any weight on it.
Instead, use a ladder or staging to get into a position where you can
remove the moss with a pressure washer. Otherwise, don't bother.
If you insist on going ahead with your plank idea, you should call the
ambulance before starting work.

do not use a pressure washer!
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On Wednesday, March 3, 2010 at 5:21:13 PM UTC, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 3 Mar, 16:36, Bruce wrote:
Instead, use a ladder or staging to get into a position where you can
remove the moss with a pressure washer. Otherwise, don't bother.

One of the worst things you can do with an asbestos roof is to
pressure wash it. Now that really does loosen the fibres up!
Personally I leave mine and its moss well alone. I fix it where it
needs it, otherwise we live in blissful mutual ignoring of each other.

use bleach to kill the moss


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On 23/08/2020 17:51, Greig Adams wrote:

use bleach to kill the moss


+ 1
Using a decent news reader could avoid answering 10 years old messages.
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On 23/08/2020 17:24, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 08:50:51 -0700 (PDT), Greig Adams
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 3, 2010 at 4:36:53 PM UTC, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:09:19 -0800 (PST), RobertL
wrote:
I need to get up on the roof of my garage to remove the moss. I
don't have a feel for how much imposed weight I can put on a typical
asbestos garage roof before I crack the panels. The panels are
supported on wood beams about every 5 feet.

If I put up a couple of planks to spread my weight across two beams
would that be enough do you think?

I weigh 100kg clothed.
No chance. Not only is asbestos cement weak and brittle, but there is
the danger from asbestos fibres when it breaks, as it surely will with
any weight on it.
Instead, use a ladder or staging to get into a position where you can
remove the moss with a pressure washer. Otherwise, don't bother.
If you insist on going ahead with your plank idea, you should call the
ambulance before starting work.

do not use a pressure washer!


If the OP wasn't so long ago, I'd suggest putting a ladder flat across
the roof and a plank onto that.

But he's probably died of mesothelioma by now...


Or had a heart attck when he got the 'experts' in to remove it and
saw their bill.
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No I used to regularly cut these sheets for lengths with a jig saw on a
black and decker drill, I'm still here. The dust seems not to be fibrous at
all, its just heavy and drops to the floor. However that stuff is
brittle,and although when it was here I have been on it, I did take great
care with weight distribution. With age though and building movement it
tends to crack and fall to bits. In the end I had to pay to get the two
buildings removed and they were of course careful, and all the h and s stuff
including the double bagging and marking. One needs to remember that
Asbestos is a naturally occurring mineral, its how we made it into various
shapes that has made it dangerous due to the concentration, so to speak.
Brian

--
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 08:50:51 -0700 (PDT), Greig Adams
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 3, 2010 at 4:36:53 PM UTC, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:09:19 -0800 (PST), RobertL
wrote:
I need to get up on the roof of my garage to remove the moss. I
don't have a feel for how much imposed weight I can put on a typical
asbestos garage roof before I crack the panels. The panels are
supported on wood beams about every 5 feet.

If I put up a couple of planks to spread my weight across two beams
would that be enough do you think?

I weigh 100kg clothed.
No chance. Not only is asbestos cement weak and brittle, but there is
the danger from asbestos fibres when it breaks, as it surely will with
any weight on it.
Instead, use a ladder or staging to get into a position where you can
remove the moss with a pressure washer. Otherwise, don't bother.
If you insist on going ahead with your plank idea, you should call the
ambulance before starting work.

do not use a pressure washer!


If the OP wasn't so long ago, I'd suggest putting a ladder flat across
the roof and a plank onto that.

But he's probably died of mesothelioma by now...

--

Chris



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On 23/08/2020 16:50, Greig Adams wrote:
On Wednesday, March 3, 2010 at 4:36:53 PM UTC, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:09:19 -0800 (PST), RobertL
wrote:
I need to get up on the roof of my garage to remove the moss. I
don't have a feel for how much imposed weight I can put on a typical
asbestos garage roof before I crack the panels. The panels are
supported on wood beams about every 5 feet.

If I put up a couple of planks to spread my weight across two beams
would that be enough do you think?

I weigh 100kg clothed.

No chance. Not only is asbestos cement weak and brittle, but there is
the danger from asbestos fibres when it breaks, as it surely will with
any weight on it.
Instead, use a ladder or staging to get into a position where you can
remove the moss with a pressure washer. Otherwise, don't bother.
If you insist on going ahead with your plank idea, you should call the
ambulance before starting work.

do not use a pressure washer!

I used to sunbathe on my parents asbestos corrugated garage roof. Hidden
behind a parapet. I wouldn't jump on it, but it was safe to walk on for
sure.

I really think people are far too panic stricken about asbestos. It
takes a lifetimes exposure to a lot of dust to **** your lungs up.



--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.



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In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/08/2020 16:50, Greig Adams wrote:
On Wednesday, March 3, 2010 at 4:36:53 PM UTC, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:09:19 -0800 (PST), RobertL
wrote:
I need to get up on the roof of my garage to remove the moss. I
don't have a feel for how much imposed weight I can put on a typical
asbestos garage roof before I crack the panels. The panels are
supported on wood beams about every 5 feet.

If I put up a couple of planks to spread my weight across two beams
would that be enough do you think?

I weigh 100kg clothed.
No chance. Not only is asbestos cement weak and brittle, but there is
the danger from asbestos fibres when it breaks, as it surely will with
any weight on it.
Instead, use a ladder or staging to get into a position where you can
remove the moss with a pressure washer. Otherwise, don't bother.
If you insist on going ahead with your plank idea, you should call the
ambulance before starting work.

do not use a pressure washer!

I used to sunbathe on my parents asbestos corrugated garage roof. Hidden
behind a parapet. I wouldn't jump on it, but it was safe to walk on for
sure.


I really think people are far too panic stricken about asbestos. It
takes a lifetimes exposure to a lot of dust to **** your lungs up.


Perhaps, but perhaps not. I had a friend who died of it, but had no idea
how he came into contact.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On 24/08/2020 10:12, charles wrote:
I really think people are far too panic stricken about asbestos. It
takes a lifetimes exposure to a lot of dust to **** your lungs up.

Perhaps, but perhaps not. I had a friend who died of it, but had no idea
how he came into contact.


Died of what? Asbestosis requires *long term* exposure, and an autopsy
that reveals fibres in the lungs, but there are plenty of lung diseases
that mimic it. Car brake dust is another fairly common cause.

Living in asbestos roofed houses is not.

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!


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In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/2020 10:12, charles wrote:
I really think people are far too panic stricken about asbestos. It
takes a lifetimes exposure to a lot of dust to **** your lungs up.

Perhaps, but perhaps not. I had a friend who died of it, but had no idea
how he came into contact.


Died of what? Asbestosis requires *long term* exposure, and an autopsy
that reveals fibres in the lungs, but there are plenty of lung diseases
that mimic it. Car brake dust is another fairly common cause.


He ddin't own a car. And yes, there weew fibles in thenlungs.

Living in asbestos roofed houses is not.

Agreed

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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The Natural Philosopher explained :
I used to sunbathe on my parents asbestos corrugated garage roof. Hidden
behind a parapet. I wouldn't jump on it, but it was safe to walk on for sure.


The main problem with asbestos roofing, is that it suddenly and without
warning just shatters under your weight. Unlike most roofing materials
which will complaint before they collapse.

I really think people are far too panic stricken about asbestos. It takes a
lifetimes exposure to a lot of dust to **** your lungs up.


I agree on that point.
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On 24/08/2020 13:46, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher explained :
I used to sunbathe on my parents asbestos corrugated garage roof.
Hidden behind a parapet. I wouldn't jump on it, but it was safe to
walk on for sure.


The main problem with asbestos roofing, is that it suddenly and without
warning just shatters under your weight. Unlike most roofing materials
which will complaint before they collapse.


so just like slates, tiles, strawboard covered with felt...

I really think people are far too panic stricken about asbestos. It
takes a lifetimes exposure to a lot of dust to **** your lungs up.


I agree on that point.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.



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On 24/08/2020 10:12, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/08/2020 16:50, Greig Adams wrote:
On Wednesday, March 3, 2010 at 4:36:53 PM UTC, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:09:19 -0800 (PST), RobertL
wrote:
I need to get up on the roof of my garage to remove the moss. I
don't have a feel for how much imposed weight I can put on a typical
asbestos garage roof before I crack the panels. The panels are
supported on wood beams about every 5 feet.

If I put up a couple of planks to spread my weight across two beams
would that be enough do you think?

I weigh 100kg clothed.
No chance. Not only is asbestos cement weak and brittle, but there is
the danger from asbestos fibres when it breaks, as it surely will with
any weight on it.
Instead, use a ladder or staging to get into a position where you can
remove the moss with a pressure washer. Otherwise, don't bother.
If you insist on going ahead with your plank idea, you should call the
ambulance before starting work.
do not use a pressure washer!

I used to sunbathe on my parents asbestos corrugated garage roof. Hidden
behind a parapet. I wouldn't jump on it, but it was safe to walk on for
sure.


I really think people are far too panic stricken about asbestos. It
takes a lifetimes exposure to a lot of dust to **** your lungs up.


Perhaps, but perhaps not. I had a friend who died of it, but had no idea
how he came into contact.

vehicle clutch centre plates and brake shoes/pads had asbestos. This
means every major road had asbestos fibres littered all around, blowing
in the wind.

Local back street car repairer died when he was about 68 from lung
cancer. He had never smoked in his life, but it was assumed that a
lifetime breathing in petrol fumes and using an air-line to blow
the dust out of calipers and drums was the cause.

Going onto an old asbestos-cement roof without using crawling
boards is utterly stupid. Old asbestos is very unforegiving and
gives no creaky warning, but just shatters and through you go.
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Default corrugated asbestos garage roof, how to spread my weight?

On 24/08/2020 15:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/2020 13:46, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher explained :
I used to sunbathe on my parents asbestos corrugated garage roof.
Hidden behind a parapet. I wouldn't jump on it, but it was safe to
walk on for sure.


The main problem with asbestos roofing, is that it suddenly and
without warning just shatters under your weight. Unlike most roofing
materials which will complaint before they collapse.


so just like slates, tiles, strawboard covered with felt...


No, not like those at all because corrugated asbestos tends to be
nailed to joists with quite a wide spacing and no tile battens,
sarking or anthing else. Just self-supporting asbestos sheeting,
whereas a proper roof will have rafters generally spaced no more
than 18 inches apart with cross nailed tile battens too, so you have
more chance of just putting one foot/leg through


I really think people are far too panic stricken about asbestos. It
takes a lifetimes exposure to a lot of dust to **** your lungs up.


I agree on that point.




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Default corrugated asbestos garage roof, how to spread my weight?

The Natural Philosopher has brought this to us :
so just like slates, tiles, strawboard covered with felt...


No, much worse than those.
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Default corrugated asbestos garage roof, how to spread my weight?

Andrew used his keyboard to write :
Old asbestos is very unforegiving and
gives no creak.


Yep, happened to me, luckily only 7 foot down to the ground underneath.
I was uninjured, but in shock with the suddenness of the failure. One
second stood on the roof, the next stood on the ground below.
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