ARWadsworth wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...


Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a
con have one.

ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun
without a licence.

It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a
license for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.

It was only a pikey that he killed.


And that also is a statement that could land you in trouble.


Trouble with who?

Adam
any politically correct bureacrat who interprets it as a racially or
ethnically offensive and discriminatory statement.
I think it probably falls under some law somewhere..

On 24 Jan, 21:52, "dennis@home" wrote:

It was worse than that..

What do you suggest he should have done Dennis? He was burgled by a
team of three people, all with criminal records that included
violence. One already had a conviction for burgling the same house.
Another was only out on bail from another offence. The third
interspersed his later busy criminal career with paid interviews from
the BBC, and suing Tony Martin for "loss of earnings"! "Honour
amongst thieves" in his mind meant taking a teenage apprentice along,
then leaving him to die, being so fearful for his own skin that he
didn't even tell the police his accomplice was lying wounded outside
the house.

We're lucky that such fine fellows have you to defend them.

On 25 Jan, 12:59, "dennis@home" wrote:

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?

Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have one.

Oh, you think he obtained a pump action shotgun to hunt rabbits, illegally.

He obtained an illegal firearm because he was in fear of his life and
property and because those who he (and we) had paid to protect him,
the police, the Gendarmes, the Men-of-Arms, had repeatedly failed
him.

What would you do if you had been in Bleak House, Dennis? There were
two options, sell up and move out or fight. And you cannot fight a mob
of pikies single-handed with a 3 x 2.

But you're not in Bleak House and you are incapable of envisaging the
besieged mentality of many people in rural communities when faced with
the incessant onslaught of itinerant, violent criminals, stealing
their vehicles, their tools, their fuel, their livelihoods. And you're
not a builder/ plumber who has had his van regularly turned over.

As Mr.Blair (not Tony) is wrongly quoted as saying, "We sleep safely
at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who
would harm us."
There are no rough men ready to dispense violence on our behalf
anymore. If you leave the dispensation of violence to untrained
amateurs like Tony Martin, they're liable to get it wrong.

Che Guevara preferred a double-barrelled shotgun over the pump-action
or self-loader because reloading is faster and a higher rate of fire
can be sustained.

It isn't racist to hate thieves; thievist, perhaps. The Irish loathe
them. I'm Irish.

On 25 Jan, 17:15, Onetap wrote:

It isn't racist to hate thieves; thievist, perhaps. The Irish loathe
them. I'm Irish.

PS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Ward

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:40:47 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun without a
licence.

His only crime was not shooting the lot of them and then burying the
evidence somewhere where it couldn't be found.

As the saying goes, the only good pikey is a dead one.


--

On 25 Jan, 17:43, Mike wrote:

His only crime was not shooting the lot of them and then burying the
evidence somewhere where it couldn't be found.

Oddly, almost the same comment was made to me by someone from that
area, who also said Martin had a JCB.
Wouldn't be the first time that's happened, he added.

Darren Bark and Brendan Fearon knew Fred Barras was unaccounted for
but they both cleared off and left him.
Martin, I think, didn't know if he'd hit anyone, but would have
checked for casualties if he'd been competent.
Barrass might have survived with competent first-aid (I don't know
the details of his injuries) and medical attention but was left to die
in the dark.

In message , tony sayer
writes
In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
. ..
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home"
saying something like:



"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have
one.

Bloke should have been given a medal, not a sentence.

He should have been given five years just like anyone else with an illegal
firearm should be.
That's before he shot someone.


Don't live out that way I presume then Dennis?..

They only allow him wax crayons in his "home"




--
geoff

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...


The firearm was only 'illegal' as he didnt have a certificate for it, it
wasnt illegal in itself, anyone else with the relevant cert. could keep
it lawfully.

Not true.
He could not get a license for it, it was an unlicensable weapon.
He was a criminal from the moment he had it, no better than other criminals.

"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jan, 12:59, "dennis@home" wrote:

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?

Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a
con
have one.

Oh, you think he obtained a pump action shotgun to hunt rabbits,
illegally.

He obtained an illegal firearm because he was in fear of his life and
property and because those who he (and we) had paid to protect him,
the police, the Gendarmes, the Men-of-Arms, had repeatedly failed
him.

What would you do if you had been in Bleak House, Dennis? There were
two options, sell up and move out or fight. And you cannot fight a mob
of pikies single-handed with a 3 x 2.

Don't talk stupid, I might think you are TNP.

There were numerous things that could have been done at Bleak house that
would probably have stopped the incident.
For instance he could have fitted some lights rather than deliberately
turning all the lights off so the passing crims would attempt a break in.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jan, 12:59, "dennis@home" wrote:

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?

Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a
con
have one.

Oh, you think he obtained a pump action shotgun to hunt rabbits,
illegally.

He obtained an illegal firearm because he was in fear of his life and
property and because those who he (and we) had paid to protect him,
the police, the Gendarmes, the Men-of-Arms, had repeatedly failed
him.

What would you do if you had been in Bleak House, Dennis? There were
two options, sell up and move out or fight. And you cannot fight a mob
of pikies single-handed with a 3 x 2.

Don't talk stupid, I might think you are TNP.

There were numerous things that could have been done at Bleak house that
would probably have stopped the incident.

Good effective policing for example.

Ha ha ha. Never seen that. The police are a bunch of ******* and my Mums
budgie is more experienced in life than the bullys in blue.

For instance he could have fitted some lights rather than deliberately
turning all the lights off so the passing crims would attempt a break in.

So it was Tony Martins fault that he was burgled?

Stupid **** should have left the lights on. That will fool a pikey.

Adam

On 25 Jan, 20:09, "dennis@home" wrote:

There were numerous things that could have been done at Bleak house that
would probably have stopped the incident.
For instance he could have fitted some lights rather than deliberately
turning all the lights off so the passing crims would attempt a break in.- Hide quoted text -

You have enjoyed a sheltered life, haven't you.

On 25 Jan, 20:09, "dennis@home" wrote:

For instance he could have fitted some lights rather than deliberately
turning all the lights off so the passing crims would attempt a break in.

Maybe he should have got a few large dogs as well? Oh, he had.

They weren't "passing crims", they already knew the house and one of
them had burgled it before. Tony Martin was known as the local
paranoid reclusive farmer who had a history of being free with the use
of a shotgun, and rarely left the house. They _still_ broke in.

dennis@home wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
The firearm was only 'illegal' as he didnt have a certificate for it, it
wasnt illegal in itself, anyone else with the relevant cert. could keep
it lawfully.

Not true.
He could not get a license for it, it was an unlicensable weapon.
He was a criminal from the moment he had it, no better than other criminals.

No one is denying he is/was a criminal.
It was not 'an unlicensable weapon'.
Tony Martin did not have the relevant certificate, so could not keep a
gun.
The relevant gun could be held by anyone else with either a shotgun
cert. or firearms cert. depending on what model the shotgun is.

Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
The firearm was only 'illegal' as he didnt have a certificate for it,
it
wasnt illegal in itself, anyone else with the relevant cert. could keep
it lawfully.

Not true.
He could not get a license for it, it was an unlicensable weapon.
He was a criminal from the moment he had it, no better than other
criminals.

No one is denying he is/was a criminal.
It was not 'an unlicensable weapon'.
Tony Martin did not have the relevant certificate, so could not keep a
gun.
The relevant gun could be held by anyone else with either a shotgun
cert. or firearms cert. depending on what model the shotgun is.

So lets get the right.. you don't know what model of shotgun he had but you
state it was licensable.

dennis@home wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ..

No one is denying he is/was a criminal.
It was not 'an unlicensable weapon'.
Tony Martin did not have the relevant certificate, so could not keep a
gun.
The relevant gun could be held by anyone else with either a shotgun
cert. or firearms cert. depending on what model the shotgun is.

So lets get the right.. you don't know what model of shotgun he had but you
state it was licensable.

Are you really stupid, or just putting on a show?
Yes, any shotgun is licensable[1].
Certain shotguns need a Class 1 Firearms certificate, the vast majority
need a Shotgun Certificate.
Is that clear enough?

Alan.

[1] So long as it meets certain rules, such as having a length of over
24" etc.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ..

No one is denying he is/was a criminal.
It was not 'an unlicensable weapon'.
Tony Martin did not have the relevant certificate, so could not keep a
gun.
The relevant gun could be held by anyone else with either a shotgun
cert. or firearms cert. depending on what model the shotgun is.

So lets get the right.. you don't know what model of shotgun he had but
you
state it was licensable.

Are you really stupid, or just putting on a show?
Yes, any shotgun is licensable[1].
Certain shotguns need a Class 1 Firearms certificate, the vast majority
need a Shotgun Certificate.
Is that clear enough?

Alan.

[1] So long as it meets certain rules, such as having a length of over
24" etc.

So without knowing what model it is and how many shots it can fire before
reloading you claim its licensable?
I suppose you will also state that machine guns are licensable provided they
meet certain rules (like not being a machine gun).
We are talking about the UK here BTW.

On 26 Jan, 13:00, "dennis@home" wrote:

I suppose you will also state that machine guns are licensable provided they
meet certain rules (like not being a machine gun).


Errr, actually, yes.
Section 5, Firearms Act I think but not having a FAC I'd have to
check that.
SMGs are, I'm uncertain about LMGs, GPMGs, and things of that ilk
since I don't know of any private owners.

Probably best if you stopped digging mate..

"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On 26 Jan, 13:00, "dennis@home" wrote:

I suppose you will also state that machine guns are licensable provided
they
meet certain rules (like not being a machine gun).


Errr, actually, yes.
Section 5, Firearms Act I think but not having a FAC I'd have to
check that.
SMGs are, I'm uncertain about LMGs, GPMGs, and things of that ilk
since I don't know of any private owners.

Probably best if you stopped digging mate..

Why?
Once he is deep enough I will just point out that the court reports stated
it was unlicensable not unlicensed.

On 26 Jan, 13:19, "dennis@home" wrote:

Why?
Once he is deep enough I will just point out that the court reports stated
it was unlicensable not unlicensed.

Report by a journalist, in the papers? Got to be right, then.

On 26 Jan, 13:19, "dennis@home" wrote:

Once he is deep enough I will just point out that the court reports stated
it was unlicensable not unlicensed.

It's on here Dennis, 3 up from the bottom, the bit about 'restricted'
shotguns.

http://www.durham.police.uk/info/firearms/faqs.php

A shotgun with a magazine capacity of more than 2 (+1 in the breech)
is a section one firearm, not classified as a shotgun for licensing
purposes.

On 26 Jan, 13:00, "dennis@home" wrote:

I suppose you will also state that machine guns are licensable provided they
meet certain rules (like not being a machine gun).

Of course they're licensable: Cat 5.

Nor are Cat 5 licences quite as unobtainable as people claim. As an
FAC (unlike a shotgun certificate) lists _specific_ firearms, it's not
hard to get a Cat 5 licence in general, but your specific one will be
restricted to only a specific firearm that you've shown good reason
for.

The guy who breaks scrap aircraft from the RAF has a Cat 5 licence
that covers him for the rare case of the odd 27mm cannon shell left
rolling around. When the Plod have time-expired CS to get rid of it
counts as hazardous chemical waste and so someone needs to have _both_
a Cat 5 and an ADR ticket. There are locksmiths who have Cat 5
licences to allow them to work legally with the teargas grenades in
some old safes.

Dave Osborne wrote:

On 22/01/2010 15:40, Vortex4 wrote:
I must have the same amount of copper again if I dig around. There's
good value in those old pipes.

http://www.letsrecycle.com/prices/metals/

The current price there for brazier copper is £3100/tonne.
I rang my local dealer today with a view to weighing in the 100kg or so
I have here - I'm not bothering yet, they are paying £1.20/kg, well
under half the quoted price.

I knew they would pay less, as the prices quoted on the link above are
bulk wholesale prices, but to be 60% down is rather too much for me.

Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Onetap wrote:
On 25 Jan, 17:15, Onetap wrote:

It isn't racist to hate thieves; thievist, perhaps. The Irish loathe
them. I'm Irish.

PS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Ward

Hmm.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 25 Jan, 20:09, "dennis@home" wrote:

For instance he could have fitted some lights rather than deliberately
turning all the lights off so the passing crims would attempt a break in.

Maybe he should have got a few large dogs as well? Oh, he had.

They weren't "passing crims", they already knew the house and one of
them had burgled it before. Tony Martin was known as the local
paranoid reclusive farmer who had a history of being free with the use
of a shotgun, and rarely left the house. They _still_ broke in.

If all passing thieves just quietly disappeared, and no one was any the
wiser and didn't go asking, there would be a lot less crime.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 25 Jan, 20:09, "dennis@home" wrote:

For instance he could have fitted some lights rather than deliberately
turning all the lights off so the passing crims would attempt a break
in.

Maybe he should have got a few large dogs as well? Oh, he had.

They weren't "passing crims", they already knew the house and one of
them had burgled it before. Tony Martin was known as the local
paranoid reclusive farmer who had a history of being free with the use
of a shotgun, and rarely left the house. They _still_ broke in.

If all passing thieves just quietly disappeared, and no one was any the
wiser and didn't go asking, there would be a lot less crime.


If all the people that buy stolen goods disappeared there would be virtually
no crime, just the odd murder, fight of parking spaces and speeding type
stuff.
Maybe the death sentence for anyone with stolen goods, its a lot easier to
prove than catching the people who steal the stuff in the first place. Got
any stolen pens, or other stuff from work?

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:10:16 -0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

If all the people that buy stolen goods disappeared there would be virtually
no crime, just the odd murder, fight of parking spaces and speeding type
stuff.
Maybe the death sentence for anyone with stolen goods, its a lot easier to
prove than catching the people who steal the stuff in the first place. Got
any stolen pens, or other stuff from work?

The temptation to plant some hooky gear on you Dennis would be too
great.


--

In message , Mike
writes
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:10:16 -0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

If all the people that buy stolen goods disappeared there would be virtually
no crime, just the odd murder, fight of parking spaces and speeding type
stuff.
Maybe the death sentence for anyone with stolen goods, its a lot easier to
prove than catching the people who steal the stuff in the first place. Got
any stolen pens, or other stuff from work?

The temptation to plant some hooky gear on you Dennis would be too
great.

Excellently put

--
geoff

In message , geoff
writes
In message , Mike
writes
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:10:16 -0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

If all the people that buy stolen goods disappeared there would be virtually
no crime, just the odd murder, fight of parking spaces and speeding type
stuff.
Maybe the death sentence for anyone with stolen goods, its a lot easier to
prove than catching the people who steal the stuff in the first place. Got
any stolen pens, or other stuff from work?

The temptation to plant some hooky gear on you Dennis would be too
great.

Excellently put

Hmm..

Tempting legislation, nevertheless.

We all file purchase receipts, guarantees etc. as a protection against
faulty goods or even mistaken purchase. I don't quite see how it could
be implemented other than random searches of private property or
checkout barriers in pub car parks:-)

Security systems, PIR lighting, expensive padlocks etc. are a
considerable cost to my low turnover business.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

On 22 Jan, 15:40, "Vortex4" wrote:
I have had a pile of scrap pipes and fittings accumulating behind my garage
for a few years. *Maybe 15-20 kilos.

Took it to the non ferrous metal merchant yesterday and he gave me 55 quid!
Staggering. *I shall be having an unscheduled curry this weekend as a direct
result.

I must have the same amount of copper again if I dig around. *There's good
value in those old pipes.

I have had a pile of scrap pipes and fittings accumulating behind my
shed
for a few years. 60 kilos, got £200. Party!

£3.40 a kilo for copper tube.

I have some regrets about selling it, I suspect the pound sterling
will prove to be a poor investment compared to the copper kilogram.

On 28 Jan, 08:59, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , geoff
writes





In message , Mike
writes
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:10:16 -0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

If all the people that buy stolen goods disappeared there would be virtually
no crime, just the odd murder, fight of parking spaces and speeding type
stuff.
Maybe the death sentence for anyone with stolen goods, its a lot easier to
prove than catching the people who steal the stuff in the first place. Got
any stolen pens, or other stuff from work?

The temptation to plant some hooky gear on you Dennis would be too
great.

Excellently put

Hmm..

Tempting legislation, nevertheless.

We all file purchase receipts, guarantees etc. as a protection against
faulty goods or even mistaken purchase. I don't quite see how it could
be implemented other than random searches of private property or
checkout barriers in pub car parks:-)

Electronic receipts, details of purchases' bar codes &/or serial
numbers uploaded via your bank card, accessible on-line.
The main purpose being to reduce the consumption of energy and
resources in the production and importation of CRAP.

On 26 Jan, 17:29, (A.Lee) wrote:

I rang my local dealer today with a view to weighing in the 100kg or so
I have here - I'm not bothering yet, they are paying £1.20/kg, well
under half the quoted price.

I knew they would pay less, as the prices quoted on the link above are
bulk wholesale prices, but to be 60% down is rather too much for me.

Try elsewhere. I was offered £3.00@ kg for brazier copper.

In message
,
Onetap writes
If all the people that buy stolen goods disappeared there would be
virtually
no crime, just the odd murder, fight of parking spaces and speeding type
stuff.
Maybe the death sentence for anyone with stolen goods, its a lot easier to
prove than catching the people who steal the stuff in the first place. Got
any stolen pens, or other stuff from work?

The temptation to plant some hooky gear on you Dennis would be too
great.

Excellently put

Hmm..

Tempting legislation, nevertheless.

We all file purchase receipts, guarantees etc. as a protection against
faulty goods or even mistaken purchase. I don't quite see how it could
be implemented other than random searches of private property or
checkout barriers in pub car parks:-)

Electronic receipts, details of purchases' bar codes &/or serial
numbers uploaded via your bank card, accessible on-line.
The main purpose being to reduce the consumption of energy and
resources in the production and importation of CRAP.

Umm.. Wouldn't this also allow our controllers to compare spend/income
and draw conclusions about hidden; untaxed income sources? I suppose you
would need to stop people using cheques to escape monitoring... oh yes!

regards


--
Tim Lamb

On 29 Jan, 22:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message
,
Onetap writes





If all the people that buy stolen goods disappeared there would be
virtually
no crime, just the odd murder, fight of parking spaces and speeding type
stuff.
Maybe the death sentence for anyone with stolen goods, its a lot easier to
prove than catching the people who steal the stuff in the first place. Got
any stolen pens, or other stuff from work?

The temptation to plant some hooky gear on you Dennis would be too
great.

Excellently put

Hmm..

Tempting legislation, nevertheless.

We all file purchase receipts, guarantees etc. as a protection against
faulty goods or even mistaken purchase. I don't quite see how it could
be implemented other than random searches of private property or
checkout barriers in pub car parks:-)

Electronic receipts, details of purchases' bar codes &/or serial
numbers uploaded via your bank card, accessible on-line.
The main purpose being to reduce the consumption of energy and
resources in the production and importation of CRAP.

Umm.. Wouldn't this also allow our controllers to compare spend/income
and draw conclusions about hidden; untaxed income sources? I suppose you
would need to stop people using cheques to escape monitoring... oh yes!

Yes, assuming it was optional, you had opted to use it, and THEY had
access to it.
It's a good idea don't stomp on it immediately.
It'll never happen though, retailers want to sell you crap and prefer
to grudgingly give you a flimsy tissue receipt that fades in the
light; they don't want you coming back in 3 or 5 years when the
rubbish materials and workmanship that were expended in producing the
crap aretefact, make their presence known. It would need legislation
and our elected representatives to impose laws that do something for
the electorate, us, rather than just pocketing backhanders from
pressure groups.