I have a 4m 110 soil pipe running from a centre bathroom under the floor to
a chamber outside. The next chamber along (top end of drains) is open
vented correctly.

In the bathroom, I will be connecting the sink into the toilet pipe.

Bog+sink into 110mm pipe. It clearly needs an air valve but I'd like to
check a couple of things:

Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

(I'm not worried about being "by the book", just whether it's likely to
work).

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and below
flood level.

It will be plugging into the top of one of these:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12454

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small side
bosses.

Sorry if this is dumb - never used an AAV before...

Ta

Tim

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
I have a 4m 110 soil pipe running from a centre bathroom under the floor to
a chamber outside. The next chamber along (top end of drains) is open
vented correctly.

In the bathroom, I will be connecting the sink into the toilet pipe.

Bog+sink into 110mm pipe. It clearly needs an air valve but I'd like to
check a couple of things:

Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

(I'm not worried about being "by the book", just whether it's likely to
work).

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and below
flood level.

It will be plugging into the top of one of these:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12454

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small side
bosses.

Sorry if this is dumb - never used an AAV before...

Fit a HepVo trap on the basin. A dry trap that si also an AAV. Simple.
http://www.bes.co.uk do them, available in most pro plumbing places.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
I have a 4m 110 soil pipe running from a centre bathroom under the floor
to
a chamber outside. The next chamber along (top end of drains) is open
vented correctly.

In the bathroom, I will be connecting the sink into the toilet pipe.

Bog+sink into 110mm pipe. It clearly needs an air valve but I'd like to
check a couple of things:

Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

(I'm not worried about being "by the book", just whether it's likely to
work).

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and below
flood level.

It will be plugging into the top of one of these:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12454

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small side
bosses.

Sorry if this is dumb - never used an AAV before...

Fit a HepVo trap on the basin. A dry trap that si also an AAV. Simple.
http://www.bes.co.uk do them, available in most pro plumbing places.


agree on that a HepVo meets requirements for an AAV

Venting is not to let gas out ... but to let air in to prevent vacuum
emptying of traps.

I used HepVo throughout the house anyway, so no issue with venting or
emptying.

Rick Hughes
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 12:41


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
I have a 4m 110 soil pipe running from a centre bathroom under the floor
to
a chamber outside. The next chamber along (top end of drains) is open
vented correctly.

In the bathroom, I will be connecting the sink into the toilet pipe.

Bog+sink into 110mm pipe. It clearly needs an air valve but I'd like to
check a couple of things:

Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

(I'm not worried about being "by the book", just whether it's likely to
work).

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and below
flood level.

It will be plugging into the top of one of these:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12454

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small side
bosses.

Sorry if this is dumb - never used an AAV before...

Fit a HepVo trap on the basin. A dry trap that si also an AAV. Simple.
http://www.bes.co.uk do them, available in most pro plumbing places.


agree on that a HepVo meets requirements for an AAV

Venting is not to let gas out ... but to let air in to prevent vacuum
emptying of traps.

I used HepVo throughout the house anyway, so no issue with venting or
emptying.

Thank you both Those look

The only question I have is will they really cope with a wedged lump of bog
paper and 4l of water travelling down the pipe after a bog blockage as
that's quite a lot of suction and air volume? I presume, the air would get
sucked in the sink drain (or overflow if the plug's in)?

How do you mount those - horizontal or vertical?

They do look interesting...

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

On Oct 15, 11:11*am, Tim W wrote:
I have a 4m 110 soil pipe running from a centre bathroom under the floor to
a chamber outside. The next chamber along (top end of drains) is open
vented correctly.

In the bathroom, I will be connecting the sink into the toilet pipe.

Bog+sink into 110mm pipe. It clearly needs an air valve but I'd like to
check a couple of things:

Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

(I'm not worried about being "by the book", just whether it's likely to
work).

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or

Strictly speaking, flood level will be the sink rim unless it is lower
than the bog rim.

MBQ

On 15 Oct, 14:08, Tim W wrote:

The only question I have is will they really cope with a wedged lump of bog
paper and 4l of water travelling down the pipe after a bog blockage as
that's quite a lot of suction and air volume?

The HepVO will open during the flush with a mighty rushing wind
through the basin, then close afterwards. HepVOs make excellent AAVs.

Sadly they make poor waste traps. In particular, any sort of foreign
bodies down the basin waste will cause problems. Things that a bottle
trap would happily flush through, or hold onto without problem, will
cause a HepVO to start jamming open. There's no "dead space" in a
HepVO, as there is with a bottle trap, so the smallest particles will
tend to start accumulating blockage-builders - in particular,
washbasin hair.

Personally I'd be very reluctant to use HepVOs again.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:43:37 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley wrote:

On 15 Oct, 14:08, Tim W wrote:

The only question I have is will they really cope with a wedged lump of bog
paper and 4l of water travelling down the pipe after a bog blockage as
that's quite a lot of suction and air volume?

The HepVO will open during the flush with a mighty rushing wind
through the basin, then close afterwards. HepVOs make excellent AAVs.

Sadly they make poor waste traps. In particular, any sort of foreign
bodies down the basin waste will cause problems. Things that a bottle
trap would happily flush through, or hold onto without problem, will
cause a HepVO to start jamming open. There's no "dead space" in a
HepVO, as there is with a bottle trap, so the smallest particles will
tend to start accumulating blockage-builders - in particular,
washbasin hair.

Personally I'd be very reluctant to use HepVOs again.

The sink on which I fitted one has all sorts of junk down it and hasn't had
a problem for ~7 years, although I can see that something stuck in the trap
would leave it 'open'.
Bottle traps etc. syphon and can lose water due to the wind causing
oscillations and evaporation; also string/fabric/hair can syphon off water
by capillary action.

On balance, I'd rather have HepVO, especially for low throughputs where a
trap might hold muck that putrifies.
Disadvantage: any object accidentally dropped in (earing, false tooth)
ain't gonna be there!
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

PeterC
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 19:32

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:43:37 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley wrote:

On 15 Oct, 14:08, Tim W wrote:

The only question I have is will they really cope with a wedged lump of
bog paper and 4l of water travelling down the pipe after a bog blockage
as that's quite a lot of suction and air volume?

The HepVO will open during the flush with a mighty rushing wind
through the basin, then close afterwards. HepVOs make excellent AAVs.

Sadly they make poor waste traps. In particular, any sort of foreign
bodies down the basin waste will cause problems. Things that a bottle
trap would happily flush through, or hold onto without problem, will
cause a HepVO to start jamming open. There's no "dead space" in a
HepVO, as there is with a bottle trap, so the smallest particles will
tend to start accumulating blockage-builders - in particular,
washbasin hair.

Personally I'd be very reluctant to use HepVOs again.

The sink on which I fitted one has all sorts of junk down it and hasn't
had a problem for ~7 years, although I can see that something stuck in the
trap would leave it 'open'.
Bottle traps etc. syphon and can lose water due to the wind causing
oscillations and evaporation; also string/fabric/hair can syphon off water
by capillary action.

On balance, I'd rather have HepVO, especially for low throughputs where a
trap might hold muck that putrifies.
Disadvantage: any object accidentally dropped in (earing, false tooth)
ain't gonna be there!

Andy, Peter:

I had wondered whether HepVo's could get nadgered by trapped crap.

I could run the sink into the bath drain, but that takes a different, 5-6m
route to a different stack and I can see globs of toothpaste gradually
settling and bunging that pipe.

Hmm. Two perfectly valid opinions... I might find the sink sucking a gush of
air disconcertings, but the AAVs I've seen make farty sounds so I'm not
sure what's worse...

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Tim W
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 20:48

Andy, Peter:

I had wondered whether HepVo's could get nadgered by trapped crap.

I could run the sink into the bath drain, but that takes a different, 5-6m
route to a different stack and I can see globs of toothpaste gradually
settling and bunging that pipe.


Zombie mode off: I meant to say, exactly the sort of crap that might give
the HepVo grief...

Hmm. Two perfectly valid opinions... I might find the sink sucking a gush
of air disconcertings, but the AAVs I've seen make farty sounds so I'm not
sure what's worse...


--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

"PeterC" wrote in message
...

On balance, I'd rather have HepVO, especially for low throughputs where a
trap might hold muck that putrifies.
Disadvantage: any object accidentally dropped in (earing, false tooth)
ain't gonna be there!


I agree if you drop anything down there - it's gone.

We have HepVo on 6 sinks & on 2 showers and 2 baths - not had a problem with
any.
Although once a year we pour some drain clearer down each one just to keep
them functioning correctly.

Only slight issue is on showers ... I would recommend that you use top
opening wastes .. the ones I have, the centre opens, and then you lift out a
black sieve that has trapped all the hair that ends up in waste.

Tim W
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 14:08


How do you mount those - horizontal or vertical?

Anyone?

Just in case I do use one somewhere...

Ta

Tim

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:01:24 +0100, Tim W wrote:

Tim W
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 14:08

How do you mount those - horizontal or vertical?

Anyone?

Just in case I do use one somewhere...

Ta

Tim

Either way (assuming HepVO). It has to be the correct way up when anything
but vertical, so that the sleeve flops down.

See:

http://www.a-s-m.com/hepvosanitarywastevalve.html
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

Tim W wrote:
Tim W
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 14:08


How do you mount those - horizontal or vertical?

Anyone?

Just in case I do use one somewhere...

Ta

Tim

They used to have a good installation PDF. That included vertical and
horizontal - and indeed I have two horizontal (bath and basin) and one
vertical (basin). But I can't locate it in my quick browse. I think they
also had examples at angles between. Well worth trying to find if you
are considering using them.

All three work fine for us though I have had to clean out the vertical
basin one. (But by being mounted vertically within its very small
cupboard, it is very easy to take out, clean out and refit. Had I used a
conventional trap, or a horizontal installation, it would have been much
less convenient.)

I also used their flexible waste on the two basins and that was really
nice and easy to use.

http://www.hepstore.co.uk/downloadPDF.aspx?id=838&page=5

--
Rod

"Tim W" wrote in message
...


Hmm. Two perfectly valid opinions... I might find the sink sucking a gush
of
air disconcertings, but the AAVs I've seen make farty sounds so I'm not
sure what's worse...



Never heard any of the HepVo traps make a noise ... they just work.

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Tim W
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 14:08


How do you mount those - horizontal or vertical?

Anyone?

Just in case I do use one somewhere...



anyway you want .... there is a line on them that has to be on underside if
fitted horizontal.

They come in 2 sizes, plus you can get 90 degree waste adapters to screw
onto the end ... I used these on Shower trays to avoid any clearance
issues.

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Tim W
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 14:08


How do you mount those - horizontal or vertical?

Anyone?

Just in case I do use one somewhere...

anyway you want .... there is a line on them that has to be on underside
if fitted horizontal.

They come in 2 sizes, plus you can get 90 degree waste adapters to screw
onto the end ... I used these on Shower trays to avoid any clearance
issues.

Hepworth say they can be fitted horizontally. it is best to fit them as
vertical as possible if you can and only as a last resort fit horizontally.

Rick Hughes
wibbled on Tuesday 20 October 2009 14:47


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Tim W
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 14:08


How do you mount those - horizontal or vertical?

Anyone?

Just in case I do use one somewhere...



anyway you want .... there is a line on them that has to be on underside
if fitted horizontal.

They come in 2 sizes, plus you can get 90 degree waste adapters to screw
onto the end ... I used these on Shower trays to avoid any clearance
issues.

Ta - I've filed that to the brain cells

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Tim W
wibbled on Thursday 15 October 2009 11:11

I have a 4m 110 soil pipe running from a centre bathroom under the floor
to a chamber outside. The next chamber along (top end of drains) is open
vented correctly.

In the bathroom, I will be connecting the sink into the toilet pipe.

Bog+sink into 110mm pipe. It clearly needs an air valve but I'd like to
check a couple of things:

Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

(I'm not worried about being "by the book", just whether it's likely to
work).

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and below
flood level.

It will be plugging into the top of one of these:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12454

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small side
bosses.

Sorry if this is dumb - never used an AAV before...

Ta

Tim


OK - I got a Floplast 32/40/50 mm one. A highly scientific mouth suck test
shows it seems to allow loads of air through and its operation is silient
(no farty noises) other than a hiss.

We'll see how well it works in reality.

Ta

Tim

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Tim W wrote:
Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and below
flood level.

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small side
bosses.

OK - I got a Floplast 32/40/50 mm one. A highly scientific mouth suck test
shows it seems to allow loads of air through and its operation is silient
(no farty noises) other than a hiss.

What adaptor did you use to plug the 50mm AAV into the 110mm downpipe?
I'm just doing a bathroom where it would be nice to have the AAV below
toilet pan level, rather than above it.
Ta
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

A.Lee
wibbled on Friday 23 October 2009 07:27

Tim W wrote:
Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be
installed above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can
it be installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes
and below flood level.

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small side
bosses.

OK - I got a Floplast 32/40/50 mm one. A highly scientific mouth suck
test shows it seems to allow loads of air through and its operation is
silient (no farty noises) other than a hiss.

What adaptor did you use to plug the 50mm AAV into the 110mm downpipe?
I'm just doing a bathroom where it would be nice to have the AAV below
toilet pan level, rather than above it.
Ta
Alan.

http://www.bes.co.uk/product/130a~PL...ric-Waste.html


Part 13005

Which is either a Floplast SP95:

https://supreme1.sslpowered.com/cgi-...txt&item=00037

or very similar (haven't got it yet but used ones like it before).

You'll need one of these:

http://www.bes.co.uk/product/130b~PL...Push-fit-.html

To seal the pipe. The AAV is actually 32mm, but comes with an adaptor to 40
and 50mm. I'll put mine up a bit on 40mm, but if you were plugging it
straight in, I guess use the 32mm rubber.

B&Q do Marley 110-50mm solvent weld reducers if you prefer (but it's
probably better to be able to unplug the AAV for servicing).

Cheers

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Tim W wrote:
Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be
installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and
below
flood level.

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small side
bosses.

OK - I got a Floplast 32/40/50 mm one. A highly scientific mouth suck
test
shows it seems to allow loads of air through and its operation is silient
(no farty noises) other than a hiss.

What adaptor did you use to plug the 50mm AAV into the 110mm downpipe?
I'm just doing a bathroom where it would be nice to have the AAV below
toilet pan level, rather than above it.

You cannot do that. It must be above the highest water level which is
usually the wash basin in the bathroom. In the case of a blockage, water
must not touch the AAV. That is why Hep VO traps are a great get out of
jail product.

Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 23 October 2009 13:32


"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Tim W wrote:
Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be
installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and
below
flood level.

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small side
bosses.

OK - I got a Floplast 32/40/50 mm one. A highly scientific mouth suck
test
shows it seems to allow loads of air through and its operation is
silient (no farty noises) other than a hiss.

What adaptor did you use to plug the 50mm AAV into the 110mm downpipe?
I'm just doing a bathroom where it would be nice to have the AAV below
toilet pan level, rather than above it.

You cannot do that. It must be above the highest water level which is
usually the wash basin in the bathroom. In the case of a blockage, water
must not touch the AAV. That is why Hep VO traps are a great get out of
jail product.

One of the AAVs (sure it was the Floplast but I can check) said that it
*could* be installed below the flood line.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Tim W
wibbled on Friday 23 October 2009 15:28

Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 23 October 2009 13:32


"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Tim W wrote:
Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be
installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and
below
flood level.

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small
side bosses.

OK - I got a Floplast 32/40/50 mm one. A highly scientific mouth suck
test
shows it seems to allow loads of air through and its operation is
silient (no farty noises) other than a hiss.

What adaptor did you use to plug the 50mm AAV into the 110mm downpipe?
I'm just doing a bathroom where it would be nice to have the AAV below
toilet pan level, rather than above it.

You cannot do that. It must be above the highest water level which is
usually the wash basin in the bathroom. In the case of a blockage, water
must not touch the AAV. That is why Hep VO traps are a great get out of
jail product.

One of the AAVs (sure it was the Floplast but I can check) said that it
*could* be installed below the flood line.

Cheers

Tim


http://www.floplast.co.uk/uploads/So...20Brochure.pdf

Page 5 - "install [AV110] 200mm above highest joint"

Perhaps that is practically equivalent to "above the flood line".

Anyway, I'd install it above the bog's flood line (yuk if it leaked) but
perhaps I wouldn't worry so much about matching the flood line of any
secondary devices, eg basins - anyway, they'd probably just flood out the
bog rim of the main stack was blocked...

Not sure if that would apply to the smaller ones...
--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Tim W
wibbled on Friday 23 October 2009 15:28

Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 23 October 2009 13:32


"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Tim W wrote:
Might I get away with a 50mm jobbie, like:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42968/

Otherwise if I have to use a 110mm version, does it need to be
installed
above the flood level (so above the bog rim I suppose) or can it be
installed lower? The 50mm one above suggests 100mm above pipes and
below
flood level.

Bog goes in the side port and the sink goes into one of the small
side bosses.

OK - I got a Floplast 32/40/50 mm one. A highly scientific mouth suck
test
shows it seems to allow loads of air through and its operation is
silient (no farty noises) other than a hiss.

What adaptor did you use to plug the 50mm AAV into the 110mm downpipe?
I'm just doing a bathroom where it would be nice to have the AAV below
toilet pan level, rather than above it.

You cannot do that. It must be above the highest water level which is
usually the wash basin in the bathroom. In the case of a blockage,
water
must not touch the AAV. That is why Hep VO traps are a great get out of
jail product.

One of the AAVs (sure it was the Floplast but I can check) said that it
*could* be installed below the flood line.

Cheers

Tim


http://www.floplast.co.uk/uploads/So...20Brochure.pdf

Page 5 - "install [AV110] 200mm above highest joint"

Perhaps that is practically equivalent to "above the flood line".

Anyway, I'd install it above the bog's flood line (yuk if it leaked) but
perhaps I wouldn't worry so much about matching the flood line of any
secondary devices, eg basins - anyway, they'd probably just flood out the
bog rim of the main stack was blocked...

Not sure if that would apply to the smaller ones...

It must be above the basin. If the toilet is blocked at the tee into the
stack the basin water will touch the AAV. MUST be fitted ABOVE the basin.
You should have fitted a HepVo as advised by many here.

try

http://www.plumbingpages.com/feature...0casestudy.cfm

Ash
wibbled on Friday 23 October 2009 16:46

try

http://www.plumbingpages.com/feature...0casestudy.cfm

That's interesting.

But - might I recommend quoting a little of teh original message so folk
know what you're referring to ;-

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...

"PeterC" wrote in message
...

On balance, I'd rather have HepVO, especially for low throughputs where a
trap might hold muck that putrifies.
Disadvantage: any object accidentally dropped in (earing, false tooth)
ain't gonna be there!


I agree if you drop anything down there - it's gone.

We have HepVo on 6 sinks & on 2 showers and 2 baths - not had a problem
with any.
Although once a year we pour some drain clearer down each one just to keep
them functioning correctly.

Only slight issue is on showers ... I would recommend that you use top
opening wastes .. the ones I have, the centre opens, and then you lift out
a black sieve that has trapped all the hair that ends up in waste.

Which waste do you mean?