Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Ta

Tim

On Sep 2, 2:01*pm, Tim S wrote:
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Ta

Tim


Floor tiles need a solid bed, so use more adhesive


NT

Tim S wrote:
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Ta

Tim

More adhesive. I find a blob in the middle is best. Then gradually tap
down with the *handle* of a club hammer i.e. hold the metal bit and hit
the centre of the tile at 90 degs with the end of the handle (sorry,
don't mean to be patronising :-)). If the adhesive is the right
consistency, it'll ooze out at the sides uniformly so that you know
there are no gaps under there. If just the weight of the hammer isn't
enough, add a little water to the mix rather than hitting it harder.
There I go again

NT coughed up some electrons that declared:


Floor tiles need a solid bed, so use more adhesive


NT

OK - ta.

Are there any good tricks of the trade for doing this. Putting a bit too
much on would allow the excess to be squeezed out - is this a good way?
Obviously have to scrape out the grout lines with a small screwdriver or
something if too much appears there.

I was thinking of adopting the bricklaying approach of tapping the tiles
down with a scrap of wood and a tapping implement, using a level over them
until they sit right. I'll be aware in advance of the problem bits I have
to take more care over. Is this a sane plan - only done wall tiles before?

Cheers

Tim

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down
less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Ta

Tim

More adhesive. I find a blob in the middle is best. Then gradually tap
down with the *handle* of a club hammer i.e. hold the metal bit and hit
the centre of the tile at 90 degs with the end of the handle (sorry,
don't mean to be patronising :-)). If the adhesive is the right
consistency, it'll ooze out at the sides uniformly so that you know
there are no gaps under there. If just the weight of the hammer isn't
enough, add a little water to the mix rather than hitting it harder.
There I go again

Splendid. My last post just crossed over yours, but you've answered the
question. Telepathy...?

Just to check a detail: by "blob" do you mean use a slotted trowel to apply
the basic stripes of adhesive then chuck an extra blob on - or just use a
blob on its own?

Basically sounds like the way I set bricks (yes I use the club hammer handle
there too ;- )

Ta

Tim

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:01:06 +0100, Tim S wrote:
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Ta

Tim
While you can fill in holes to flatten out uneven floors, if you
have bumps standing out, my experience is that you need to fix
them first.
If you pad-out the unevenness with extra goop (apologies for the
technical term), then the tile you've laid over the bump will stand
proud of the ones around it. Unless you then add more adhesive to
their beds, too - then they stand out WRT the ones around them ...
I tried to do this when tiling the conservatory - it wasn't very
satisfactory and I ended up pulling up some of the tiles to fix the
underlying bumps.

pete coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:01:06 +0100, Tim S wrote:
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down
less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Ta

Tim
While you can fill in holes to flatten out uneven floors, if you
have bumps standing out, my experience is that you need to fix
them first.
If you pad-out the unevenness with extra goop (apologies for the
technical term), then the tile you've laid over the bump will stand
proud of the ones around it. Unless you then add more adhesive to
their beds, too - then they stand out WRT the ones around them ...
I tried to do this when tiling the conservatory - it wasn't very
satisfactory and I ended up pulling up some of the tiles to fix the
underlying bumps.

As the adhesive is typically going to be several mm thick, I was hoping 2-3
mm bumps could be absorbed?...

Cheers

Tim

On 2 Sep, 14:41, Tim S wrote:
Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:





Tim S wrote:
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down
less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.


If you know you have this problem, back-buttering all the tiles will
help you get a deeper bed all round which gives you more wiggle room
for the tiles over the high spots - basically trowel the backs of the
tiles with a 6mm wall trowel as well as the floor with a floor
trowel. Or you could just back butter the individual tiles on the low
spots. To clean the grout lines out, a cheap paintbrush with the
bristles cut down to 10mm or so works quite well.

Tim S wrote:
Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down
less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Ta

Tim
More adhesive. I find a blob in the middle is best. Then gradually tap
down with the *handle* of a club hammer i.e. hold the metal bit and hit
the centre of the tile at 90 degs with the end of the handle (sorry,
don't mean to be patronising :-)). If the adhesive is the right
consistency, it'll ooze out at the sides uniformly so that you know
there are no gaps under there. If just the weight of the hammer isn't
enough, add a little water to the mix rather than hitting it harder.
There I go again

Splendid. My last post just crossed over yours, but you've answered the
question. Telepathy...?

Just to check a detail: by "blob" do you mean use a slotted trowel to apply
the basic stripes of adhesive then chuck an extra blob on - or just use a
blob on its own?

Basically sounds like the way I set bricks (yes I use the club hammer handle
there too ;- )

Ta

Tim

I normally use the notched spreader over about a 4 tile area so, if a
particular tile is too low, you don't know till you've laid it and
messed up the stripes. I then just chuck a blob on top. It's like
bricklaying in the sense that you can feel when the suction is good. How
you get there doesn't really matter.

Tim S wrote:
NT coughed up some electrons that declared:


Floor tiles need a solid bed, so use more adhesive


NT

OK - ta.

Are there any good tricks of the trade for doing this. Putting a bit
too much on would allow the excess to be squeezed out - is this a
good way? Obviously have to scrape out the grout lines with a small
screwdriver or something if too much appears there.

I was thinking of adopting the bricklaying approach of tapping the
tiles down with a scrap of wood and a tapping implement, using a
level over them until they sit right. I'll be aware in advance of the
problem bits I have to take more care over. Is this a sane plan -
only done wall tiles before?

Cheers

Tim

Tim,

I had this problem on wall tiles in a shower quite some time ago [1], and
simply put more tile cement on the back of the tiles [2], but rather than
tap them in with a hammer, I simply 'wriggled' the tiles whilst pressing
down on them with hand pressure and then cleared the over-spill away - and
the things are still there 10 years later!

[1] There were some rather large indentations in one wall which meant
that these had to be filled with IIRC, finishing plaster (it could even have
been carlite) mixed with sand - and adding bigger lumps of cement to the
tiles really wasn't an option.

[2] Making sure that the cement was of a sufficiently 'soft' mix out of a
new, unopened pot - rather than using stuff that may have had the odd lump
or two in it.

Cash

Bolted coughed up some electrons that declared:

On 2 Sep, 14:41, Tim S wrote:
Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:





Tim S wrote:
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down
less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.


If you know you have this problem,

Laying laminate 10 years ago taught me to guage the floors first!

Laying wood flooring 3 months ago taught me to guage *all* the floor first,
especially the edges where screed often seems to go a bit wonky.

back-buttering all the tiles will
help you get a deeper bed all round which gives you more wiggle room
for the tiles over the high spots - basically trowel the backs of the
tiles with a 6mm wall trowel as well as the floor with a floor
trowel. Or you could just back butter the individual tiles on the low
spots.

OK - this sounds like a good plan.

To clean the grout lines out, a cheap paintbrush with the
bristles cut down to 10mm or so works quite well.

That sounds like a real pro trick. I have lots of half knackered brushes
which would be ideal candidates for this.

Once again, thanks

Cheers

Tim

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

I normally use the notched spreader over about a 4 tile area so, if a
particular tile is too low, you don't know till you've laid it and
messed up the stripes. I then just chuck a blob on top. It's like
bricklaying in the sense that you can feel when the suction is good. How
you get there doesn't really matter.

Thanks Stuart.

This place really is a mine of good tips

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:09:46 +0100, Tim S wrote:
pete coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:01:06 +0100, Tim S wrote:
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down
less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Ta

Tim
While you can fill in holes to flatten out uneven floors, if you
have bumps standing out, my experience is that you need to fix
them first.
If you pad-out the unevenness with extra goop (apologies for the
technical term), then the tile you've laid over the bump will stand
proud of the ones around it. Unless you then add more adhesive to
their beds, too - then they stand out WRT the ones around them ...
I tried to do this when tiling the conservatory - it wasn't very
satisfactory and I ended up pulling up some of the tiles to fix the
underlying bumps.

As the adhesive is typically going to be several mm thick, I was hoping 2-3
mm bumps could be absorbed?...

Cheers

Tim

So long as you use a notched trowel, then yes - maybe. But be mindful
than the thicker you lay it, the bigger in absolute terms any variation
in thickness will be and the more tapping level will be needed. Then one
tap too many and you've got a dip and the other side poking up :-(

Cash coughed up some electrons that declared:


I had this problem on wall tiles in a shower quite some time ago [1], and
simply put more tile cement on the back of the tiles [2], but rather than
tap them in with a hammer, I simply 'wriggled' the tiles whilst pressing
down on them with hand pressure and then cleared the over-spill away - and
the things are still there 10 years later!


Thanks Cash.

I use the wiggle method on marmox as it's very difficult to press it down
evenly (large sheets). Wiggling it seems to give a better feel.

It's laying the marmox that seems to induce the lumpiness though. It'll be
worth it overall (for the warmer feet and damp resisting properties) but
it's bloody difficult getting a 1.2m sheet down without getting 1-2mm out
of true somewhere, even with using a 4' and 6' level as I go.

I might try laying the next batch cut in half (600x600 - more like a big
floor tile).

[1] There were some rather large indentations in one wall which meant
that these had to be filled with IIRC, finishing plaster (it could even
have been carlite) mixed with sand - and adding bigger lumps of cement to
the tiles really wasn't an option.

Luckily nothing that bad. The surface is generally true - just a couple of
mm here and there.

[2] Making sure that the cement was of a sufficiently 'soft' mix out of
[a
new, unopened pot - rather than using stuff that may have had the odd lump
or two in it.

Good point

Cheers

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Its far easier to sort out any small depressions that would not be
accommodated by the notched spreader _Before_ you start tilling rather then
bodging in extra lumps of adhesive hoping to get an even finish.



-

Mark wrote:
"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Its far easier to sort out any small depressions that would not be
accommodated by the notched spreader _Before_ you start tilling rather then
bodging in extra lumps of adhesive hoping to get an even finish.



-



Packing out the odd tile by 3mm isn't a bodge, and is inevitable unless
the floor is perfect

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
om...
Mark wrote:
"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down
less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Its far easier to sort out any small depressions that would not be
accommodated by the notched spreader _Before_ you start tilling rather
then bodging in extra lumps of adhesive hoping to get an even finish.



Packing out the odd tile by 3mm isn't a bodge, and is inevitable unless
the floor is perfect

Yep no matter what im tilling the surface is made perfect before I start,
not during.



-

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

Mark wrote:
"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down
less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Its far easier to sort out any small depressions that would not be
accommodated by the notched spreader _Before_ you start tilling rather
then bodging in extra lumps of adhesive hoping to get an even finish.



-



Packing out the odd tile by 3mm isn't a bodge, and is inevitable unless
the floor is perfect

That's my thinking. Even my best floors have unevenesses at the 2-4mm level.

You notice that level of detail when you lay wood flooring! Thank heavens
for 1mm card!

Unless you pour 10+mm of Stopgap 300 in one hit or have just employed genius
floor screeder blokes, I suspect perfection is rare.

Where there might be a gentle dip at a few mm over a 4' or 6' level, I'm
more than happy to follow that with the tiles. No one is ever going to
notice. The rest of the house is bent anyway - it'll fit in perfectly!

It's localised wibbles that I'm preparing to deal with in my mind. The sort
of thing where not making allowances ends up with a cocked tile, which
would look bad. Also, while the bath has 4 adjustable feet, the bog does
not, so it's very important to get that bit dead flat.

I approach this job with some trepidation - which is why I'm trying to
fathom out everything that could go wrong before I start This is my
bathroom - at 3m2 with barely 1m2 visible in a single area (bath and bog
take out the rest) it's my "practise" floor.

After that, the next one will be the kicthen and that will be 20m2 with 15m2
on show!!!

Thanks for all the suggestions and tips.

Cheers

Tim

Mark coughed up some electrons that declared:


Yep no matter what im tilling the surface is made perfect before I start,
not during.


I can understand running some plaster over a wavy wall. But do you really
slap down levelling compound on your floors before you tile?

Curious...

Mark wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
om...
Mark wrote:
"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile
down less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Its far easier to sort out any small depressions that would not be
accommodated by the notched spreader _Before_ you start tilling
rather then bodging in extra lumps of adhesive hoping to get an
even finish.

Packing out the odd tile by 3mm isn't a bodge, and is inevitable
unless the floor is perfect

Yep no matter what im tilling the surface is made perfect before I
start, not during.



-

Mark,

I must admit that I have seen many floors tiled, some on brand spanking
newly laid screed (dried out of course for the pedants amongst us ;-) ),
some on timber floors and some on old concrete floors that have literally
had buckets of self-levelling compound poured over them - and not one has
ever been *PERFECTLY* level or even - but the pro's have always managed to
get around that with the odd 'trade trick' or two (such as a thicker bed of
adhesive as and when needed!

All the best

Cash

Tim S wrote:

Mark coughed up some electrons that declared:


Yep no matter what im tilling the surface is made perfect before I start,
not during.


I can understand running some plaster over a wavy wall. But do you really
slap down levelling compound on your floors before you tile?

Curious...

if a floor is not level before i start i put down a sand/cement screed, i
don't use levelling compound, as inevitably it isn't.
if it only has miner imperfections i go over the floor with a long straight
edge and fill in any dips over 2mm with adhesive.
then all you have to do is spread the adhesive _evenly_ drop the tiles in
place and worry about getting the spacing accurate.
that way you don't come back next day when the tiles are stuck solid and find
one or more edges proud of it's neighbour.
also when Mrs walks across the floor with heels on you don't get that dreaded
click click,*clonk, as she steps on a tile that is part hollow
underneath*because you had to use extra dabs of glue to get the tile*level.
it's also SO much quicker in the long run.*****
Preparation*is the key to many jobs i.e. painting,
tiling is another good example IMO.**


\0

also when Mrs walks across the floor with heels on you don't get that dreaded
click click, clonk, as she steps on a tile that is part hollow
underneath because you had to use extra dabs of glue to get the tile level.

You're not listening. The extra blob of adhesive in the centre gets
spread evenly when the tile is pushed down.

Tim S coughed up some electrons that declared:

Hi,

If tiling over the odd patch of uneveness (2-3mm ish)?

Does one attempt to put more adhesive on, or just push the tile down less?

This is for 300mm floor tiles mostly.

Ta

Tim

Yea. Laid my first 10 tiles today. Took it slow, much mental planning, drew
up the tiles on inkscape (imported my floor plan in) and determined the
best position for the tiles without having silly slivers or other bad
things).

Set out the battens to give 2 edges, mixed up the Mapei kerabond + Isolastic
(needs elastic due to going onto marmox) and started laying.

Thanks to all the good folk here, I had everyone's tips on hand.

The extra blob method worked well when I knew I needed to pack up one
corner. When I needed to pack up a whole tile, I back buttered the tile
with a 6mm notched splatter and that worked really well.


Firstly, I found that the adhesive was a joy to work with. 8 hours bucket
life and 45 minutes of tile wibbling time is plenty to fiddle and re fiddle
with tiles.

However, one must be sure to clean up properly afterwards - I scraped the
joints out with a screwdriver and used a damp j-cloth to wipe the face of
the tiles and just into the joint. That adhesive with the additive sets
like araldite so leaving it till later would be unwise.


In the end, I allowed the tiles to follow the slight undulations in the
floor but aimed to make the joints matched.

It worked out better than I'd hoped. 2-3mm gradual variance in the height on
a 4' rule but you wouldn't notice as the tile edges seem pretty much
aligned - which is what I was aiming for. Quite satisfactory by my
standards. It's under the bath anyway - perhaps the next session will go
better.

I found the wiggle method of bedding the tiles worked very well too. I could
see the adhesive squeeze out at the edges so I'm pretty confident I've got
a 100% seating in most places - definately have under the bath feet where
it counts the most.

On an aside - got my Rubi Star 40 tile cutter today. It works pretty well.
the guide rail measure thingy is completely gay - as to be more or less
useless, but the actual score and snap mechanism seems very good. I suppose
the 200 quid pro version has better guides, but I'm happy lining it up with
a couple of pencil marks.

Haven't tried the Erbauer saw yet but I will have by Monday.

Once again - thanks - couldn't have done it without uk.d-i-y!

Cheers

Tim