Hello,

In the pipe freezing thread I was asking about changing some kitchen
sink taps. I'm afraid I have not changed the taps because all the nuts
are scaled over. I presume the tap connectors have weeped over the
years (fibre washer worn?) and the water has evaporated leaving the
scale behind. As you know, there's never much room to manouvre under a
sink at the best of times and even using one of those special spanners
I couldn't shift the nuts.

If I could get the tap connectors undone, I think I will have the same
problem with the tap back nuts. The hot water one in particular was
buried under calcium!

Other than cutting the pipes and ripping the sink out and replacing
the sink and taps together, what's the best way to take out the taps?

Can the scale be dissolved off with an acid or vinegar? Would a blow
torch help loosen the nuts?

Thanks in advance,
Stephen.

Stephen wrote:
Hello,

In the pipe freezing thread I was asking about changing some kitchen
sink taps. I'm afraid I have not changed the taps because all the nuts
are scaled over. I presume the tap connectors have weeped over the
years (fibre washer worn?) and the water has evaporated leaving the
scale behind. As you know, there's never much room to manouvre under a
sink at the best of times and even using one of those special spanners
I couldn't shift the nuts.

Pretty standard experience for me unforetunately.

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On'
has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." --Calvin
Coolidge

What kind of 'special spanner' did you use? There are various typs & some
are better than others.

If I could get the tap connectors undone, I think I will have the same
problem with the tap back nuts. The hot water one in particular was
buried under calcium!

If you can cut the supply pipes to give a 'straight line' to the tap
connectors a box spanner will work, and will also sort the back nuts. If
the back nuts are plastic they are likely to be brittle & a good bashing
will break them.

Other than cutting the pipes and ripping the sink out and replacing
the sink and taps together, what's the best way to take out the taps?

Can the scale be dissolved off with an acid or vinegar? Would a blow
torch help loosen the nuts?

WD40 helps, as does a little percussive maintenance.

Correct spanner if often the key, which is why my plumbing bag is so piggin
heavy.

HTH


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Stephen wrote:
Hello,

In the pipe freezing thread I was asking about changing some kitchen
sink taps. I'm afraid I have not changed the taps because all the nuts
are scaled over. I presume the tap connectors have weeped over the
years (fibre washer worn?) and the water has evaporated leaving the
scale behind. As you know, there's never much room to manouvre under a
sink at the best of times and even using one of those special spanners
I couldn't shift the nuts.

Pretty standard experience for me unforetunately.

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On'
has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." --Calvin
Coolidge

What kind of 'special spanner' did you use? There are various typs & some
are better than others.

If I could get the tap connectors undone, I think I will have the same
problem with the tap back nuts. The hot water one in particular was
buried under calcium!

If you can cut the supply pipes to give a 'straight line' to the tap
connectors a box spanner will work, and will also sort the back nuts. If
the back nuts are plastic they are likely to be brittle & a good bashing
will break them.

Other than cutting the pipes and ripping the sink out and replacing
the sink and taps together, what's the best way to take out the taps?

Can the scale be dissolved off with an acid or vinegar? Would a blow
torch help loosen the nuts?

WD40 helps, as does a little percussive maintenance.

Correct spanner if often the key, which is why my plumbing bag is so piggin
heavy.

You forgot to say what weight of percussive maintenance to use :-)

Dave

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:17:24 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

What kind of 'special spanner' did you use? There are various typs & some
are better than others.

I used something like this:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13294/...s/Basin-Wrench

You are now going to tell me I should have used this:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/14631/...e-Basin-Wrench

aren't you

If you can cut the supply pipes to give a 'straight line' to the tap
connectors a box spanner will work, and will also sort the back nuts. If
the back nuts are plastic they are likely to be brittle & a good bashing
will break them.

The box spanner idea sounds good because they surround the whole nut
so will not slip off, like the wrenches do. It does mean cutting the
pipe though, which is a sort of point of no return.

WD40 helps, as does a little percussive maintenance.

That's what I was thinking, so it's good to know I was heading in the
right direction. That said, the underside of the sink looks a little
rusty so I worry too much force might rip the sink as well as the taps
out!

Stephen wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:17:24 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

What kind of 'special spanner' did you use? There are various typs
& some are better than others.

I used something like this:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13294/...s/Basin-Wrench

You are now going to tell me I should have used this:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/14631/...e-Basin-Wrench

aren't you


Errm. Afraid so :-) The first one is a useful as a back pocket in a sock.

At least I haven't suggested
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;js...ch=jaw+dropper
which is what I use, worth every penny.

If you can cut the supply pipes to give a 'straight line' to the tap
connectors a box spanner will work, and will also sort the back
nuts. If the back nuts are plastic they are likely to be brittle &
a good bashing will break them.

The box spanner idea sounds good because they surround the whole nut
so will not slip off, like the wrenches do. It does mean cutting the
pipe though, which is a sort of point of no return.

Easy to repair or replace using flexible tap connectors.

WD40 helps, as does a little percussive maintenance.

That's what I was thinking, so it's good to know I was heading in the
right direction. That said, the underside of the sink looks a little
rusty so I worry too much force might rip the sink as well as the taps
out!

Helps if you have an assistant to (a) hold the tap still with mole grips or
stiltsons or (b) turn the tap while you hold the nut still with the basin
wrench.

It will come off! Think positive!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:17:24 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Stephen wrote:

Can the scale be dissolved off with an acid or vinegar? Would a blow
torch help loosen the nuts?

WD40 helps, as does a little percussive maintenance.

Correct spanner if often the key, which is why my plumbing bag is so piggin
heavy.

HTH

In the last week or so I've freed off a corroded stop tap by heating
up a lemon in the microwave and sticking it on the exposed spindle of
the stop tap (the crossbar had loosened and come off) and repeating a
few times, then spraying the whole valve with 3 in 1 oil, then WD -40,
and then with aerosol white spray grease, and leaving it all to soak
in, before refitting the crossbar and having another go which was
successful this time.

Derek

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:07:57 +0100, Derek Geldard
wrote:

In the last week or so I've freed off a corroded stop tap by heating
up a lemon in the microwave and sticking it on the exposed spindle of
the stop tap (the crossbar had loosened and come off) and repeating a
few times, then spraying the whole valve with 3 in 1 oil, then WD -40,
and then with aerosol white spray grease,

Crickey, four different treatments!

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:29:54 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I used something like this:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13294/...s/Basin-Wrench

You are now going to tell me I should have used this:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/14631/...e-Basin-Wrench

aren't you


Errm. Afraid so :-) The first one is a useful as a back pocket in a sock.

I knew there was one that was liked by the group and one that wasn't
but I couldn't remember which was which. In defence of the first one,
I have used it to remove my old bath and two basins, and refit all of
their replacements. I guess they work when the fittings are clean and
accessible.

I think the problem I have had is that I am now working on a sink,
where the joints are more out of reach.

You mentioned box spanners before and I was going to say it is a shame
they do not make very long box spanners that would reach from the tap
connectors down below the sink basin where you could easily fit a
tommy bar. I'm not sure there would be much room to turn the bar
squashed between the sink bowl and the wall.

I guess the second tool has some good features: it seems to have a
long handle that would drop beneath the sink bowl where it could be
turned more easily. I hear you can attach a wrench from a socket set
to some of them for extra leverage.

I am puzzled by the latest offering from Monument:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand...0/sd210/p63844

It has two ends. What is the second used for? At first I thought there
was one end for 15mm and the other for 22mm but I thought the "claw"
was one size fits all? Then I notice the second end is in a different
plane. Is one end for vertical use and the other end for horizontal?
Aren't 99% of tap connectors vertical?

At least I haven't suggested
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;js...ch=jaw+dropper
which is what I use, worth every penny.

I looked at this and your review but I am unsure what it does. Why do
they come as a pair? Is there a 15mm and 22mm version? Am I right tot
think that they tighten the tap back nut and tap connector nut at
once? What's the point of that? To prevent one coming undone whilst
you tighten the other?

Thanks.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:07:57 +0100, Derek Geldard
wrote:

In the last week or so I've freed off a corroded stop tap by heating
up a lemon in the microwave and sticking it on the exposed spindle of
the stop tap (the crossbar had loosened and come off) and repeating a
few times, then spraying the whole valve with 3 in 1 oil, then WD -40,
and then with aerosol white spray grease, and leaving it all to soak
in, before refitting the crossbar and having another go which was
successful this time.

Sorry, I forgot to ask is it ok to use oil on these fittings? It is
what I was thinking of doing myself but considering it is tap water,
is there a danger of the oil getting into the water? Is it just a case
of not applying too much to begin with and wiping the excess of the
pipe as soon as you open the joint?

Stephen wrote:
On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:29:54 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I used something like this:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13294/...s/Basin-Wrench

You are now going to tell me I should have used this:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/14631/...e-Basin-Wrench

aren't you


Errm. Afraid so :-) The first one is a useful as a back pocket in a
sock.

I knew there was one that was liked by the group and one that wasn't
but I couldn't remember which was which. In defence of the first one,
I have used it to remove my old bath and two basins, and refit all of
their replacements. I guess they work when the fittings are clean and
accessible.

I think the problem I have had is that I am now working on a sink,
where the joints are more out of reach.

You mentioned box spanners before and I was going to say it is a shame
they do not make very long box spanners that would reach from the tap
connectors down below the sink basin where you could easily fit a
tommy bar. I'm not sure there would be much room to turn the bar
squashed between the sink bowl and the wall.

There isn't :-) I often use s stubby screwdriver instead.

I guess the second tool has some good features: it seems to have a
long handle that would drop beneath the sink bowl where it could be
turned more easily. I hear you can attach a wrench from a socket set
to some of them for extra leverage.

You can get them with short & long handles & even telescopic.

I am puzzled by the latest offering from Monument:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand...0/sd210/p63844

It has two ends. What is the second used for? At first I thought there
was one end for 15mm and the other for 22mm but I thought the "claw"
was one size fits all? Then I notice the second end is in a different
plane. Is one end for vertical use and the other end for horizontal?
Aren't 99% of tap connectors vertical?

I think the photo is confusing. The end piece swaps from side to side
depending on weather you are doing up or undoing. I think this has two jaws
to reduce the size when using 15mm.


At least I haven't suggested
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;js...ch=jaw+dropper
which is what I use, worth every penny.

I looked at this and your review but I am unsure what it does. Why do
they come as a pair? Is there a 15mm and 22mm version?

Yes, one for basins, one for baths.

Am I right to
think that they tighten the tap back nut and tap connector nut at
once? What's the point of that? To prevent one coming undone whilst
you tighten the other?

The second jaw isn't a hexagon, its just circular. To undo a pipe connector
they are positioned together & it acts as a guide to locate the first
hexagonal jaw on the nut. When undoing back nuts its slid down out of the
way.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:41:20 +0100, Stephen
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:07:57 +0100, Derek Geldard
wrote:

In the last week or so I've freed off a corroded stop tap by heating
up a lemon in the microwave and sticking it on the exposed spindle of
the stop tap (the crossbar had loosened and come off) and repeating a
few times, then spraying the whole valve with 3 in 1 oil, then WD -40,
and then with aerosol white spray grease, and leaving it all to soak
in, before refitting the crossbar and having another go which was
successful this time.

Sorry, I forgot to ask is it ok to use oil on these fittings? It is
what I was thinking of doing myself but considering it is tap water,
is there a danger of the oil getting into the water? Is it just a case
of not applying too much to begin with and wiping the excess of the
pipe as soon as you open the joint?


Well if it's just a case of freeing off a siezed stop tap the water
can't get contaminated until the solvents / oils have got through and
penetrated the gland whereupon they will meet the water which will be
under high pressure, and hence tending to come out. rather than admit
any contaminating fluids in.

Derek

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:05:30 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


The second jaw isn't a hexagon, its just circular. To undo a pipe connector
they are positioned together & it acts as a guide to locate the first
hexagonal jaw on the nut. When undoing back nuts its slid down out of the
way.

Thanks for the explanation. Why are they so dear?

Stephen wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:05:30 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


The second jaw isn't a hexagon, its just circular. To undo a pipe
connector they are positioned together & it acts as a guide to
locate the first hexagonal jaw on the nut. When undoing back nuts
its slid down out of the way.

Thanks for the explanation. Why are they so dear?

Dunno. Prolly cause Armeg are the only people who make one & presumably
have a patent, or maybe they are made in small numbers. There isn't £45
worth of materials & labour in them.

Glad I bit the bullet & bought a set though, they really do make the job a
doddle.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:15:40 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Prolly cause Armeg are the only people who make one & presumably
have a patent, or maybe they are made in small numbers.

I think it is a vicious circle: they are expensive because they sell
so few; they sell so few because they are expensive!

Why are they so much better than anything else? They sound like a
normal wrench but with a guide for tap connectors, and for back nuts
you don't even use the guide. Is there anything else that's special
about them?

Stephen wrote:
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:15:40 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Prolly cause Armeg are the only people who make one & presumably
have a patent, or maybe they are made in small numbers.

I think it is a vicious circle: they are expensive because they sell
so few; they sell so few because they are expensive!

Why are they so much better than anything else? They sound like a
normal wrench but with a guide for tap connectors, and for back nuts
you don't even use the guide. Is there anything else that's special
about them?

Compared to a normal cheap cast basin wrench, they are much slimmer and the
head is a hexagon rather than a slot, so much easier to get in to confined
spaces e.g. corner basins and you get more of a 'turn' before repositioning.

Compared to the adjustable type basin wrench with the sprung loaded jaw,
they are again much slimmer & give a much more positive grip - the spring
loaded jaws are difficult to locate & slip off all the time.

The sliding side handle allows you to position it somewhere where it can be
turned and enables you to apply a lot of force if needed.

When used on tap connectors, especially difficult to get at ones like those
on a bath, the guide means you can pretty much do it blind. Once the tap
connectors are undone you can use the other end of the same tool on the back
nut. Cheap cast basin wrenches & the Taptool either fit the tap connector
or the backnut, but obviously can't fit both. The sprung jaw type are not
much good on back nuts because they don't stay at 90 degrees.

They do wot is says on the tin basically. I wouldn't part with mine.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:41:43 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


They do wot is says on the tin basically. I wouldn't part with mine.

Thanks. Photos and descriptions in catalogues can only tell so much.
These are the kind of things you can only find out from talking to
someone who has actually used them. They sound like they have been
really good for you and used on a daily basis would soon pay for
themselves. For my occasional DIY use though, I can't justify that
expense right now.

You mentioned in an earlier post about your plumbing bag weighing so
much. How do you manage to carry everything you need with you? I'm
thinking that if you carry straight couples, elbows, and tees in 15
and 22 millimetre sizes, perhaps both in compression and solder,
that's already quite a box full of heavy brass.

Stephen wrote:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:41:43 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


They do wot is says on the tin basically. I wouldn't part with mine.

Thanks. Photos and descriptions in catalogues can only tell so much.
These are the kind of things you can only find out from talking to
someone who has actually used them. They sound like they have been
really good for you and used on a daily basis would soon pay for
themselves. For my occasional DIY use though, I can't justify that
expense right now.

Thats one of the good things about doing this for a living - I can justify
having the right tools, so when I do jobs at home I've got the right kit.

You mentioned in an earlier post about your plumbing bag weighing so
much. How do you manage to carry everything you need with you? I'm
thinking that if you carry straight couples, elbows, and tees in 15
and 22 millimetre sizes, perhaps both in compression and solder,
that's already quite a box full of heavy brass.

The plumbing tool bag weighs enough as it is. I also have a heavy duty
plastic organiser for bits
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Professional...er/invt/165171

Mainly 15mm TBH, don't do a lot with 22mm so just 1 or 2 of each in the
larger size. Couple of plastic boxes in the van hold flexibles, waste
fittings, flush handles, float valves, siphons etc.

Tend to take the tool bag in with me & go back to the van for bits. Gives
me the chance to have a quick fag whilst looking :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk