My three year-old Hotpoint Fridge freezer Rype FFA 70P has decided not
to chill any more. Nada.

Above the fridge door on the control panel I have a green mains light
showing, plus 2 red alarms: Food Defrost Alert & Freezer High Temp.

On switch-on, after about 30 seconds the motor/compressor can be heard
running, together with some 'flow' noises. However the rear radiator
produces no heat, and the interior is not chilled at all.

I have removed a cover from the freezer section, which exposes a
circulation fan, and a finned evaporator. I can see no PCB, which I
have read about on different models. The only obvious component in
there is a No-frost thermostat that is clipped to the evaporator
tubing. ELTH Type 261F with 2 pairs of wires going to a connector
block. Could this be my fault? I can see no thermistors anywhere.

There appears to be just one motor/compressor for the upper fridge and
the lower freezer. If so, how do they get 2 different temperatures?

I was hoping that this fault was something simple like a compressor
starter relay or a thermostat and relatively cheap to replace.

Any ideas from a fridge expert here? If so, an online source for the
replacement part would be appreciated.

DJ

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:44:57 +0100, David J wrote:

On switch-on, after about 30 seconds the motor/compressor can be heard
running, together with some 'flow' noises. However the rear radiator
produces no heat, and the interior is not chilled at all.

Heat pump not working... As the compressor runs one can only assume
it is out of gas for some reason. How long did you leave it running
to determine that the raditor wasn't getting warm?

A local refridgeration company should be able to re-gas it for you.
How ever if you don't find the leak it will need doing again, and
again, and again.

I have removed a cover from the freezer section, which exposes a
circulation fan, and a finned evaporator.

Frost free freezer, never very reliable. Most (all?) of the problems
reported in here about freezers are related to frost free designs. Is
that much of a chore to defrost the freezer every six months or so?

Have you contacted Hotpoint? What warranty does it have? Even if only
12 months you can still argue "unfit for purpose", 3 years is a short
life for a fridge/freezer even a frost free one. I'd say 5 years as
minimum, 10+ average, 20+ good.

There appears to be just one motor/compressor for the upper fridge and
the lower freezer. If so, how do they get 2 different temperatures?

They rely on the fridge being opened/heat gain and that calling for
coldth, the freezer part is cooled as part of the process hopefully
to low enough temperatures. This is why a fridge/freezer in a place
outside it's design temperature range, say a garage might let the
freezer get to warm because the fridge part doesn't gain enough heat
to trigger the heat pump.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:23:57 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:44:57 +0100, David J wrote:

On switch-on, after about 30 seconds the motor/compressor can be heard
running, together with some 'flow' noises. However the rear radiator
produces no heat, and the interior is not chilled at all.

Heat pump not working... As the compressor runs one can only assume
it is out of gas for some reason. How long did you leave it running
to determine that the raditor wasn't getting warm?


Ages. I switched the fridge off several times to start all over also.

A local refridgeration company should be able to re-gas it for you.
How ever if you don't find the leak it will need doing again, and
again, and again.

Oh dear.. that sounds expensive.. How do they find a leak? Presumably
it's a pinhole somewhere in the piping? I can see a blue 'copper
sulphate' stain on one joint - could that be it?

On a car a/c system there is a method of using a purple 'marker' to
establish the source of a leak. Is it the same for fridge engineers?

Also, would a leak leave a stain on the floor - or simply evaporate?

The plate states that the refridgerant type is R600a.


I have removed a cover from the freezer section, which exposes a
circulation fan, and a finned evaporator.

Frost free freezer, never very reliable. Most (all?) of the problems
reported in here about freezers are related to frost free designs. Is
that much of a chore to defrost the freezer every six months or so?

Have you contacted Hotpoint?

I'll do that on Monday.

What warranty does it have? Even if only 12 months you can still argue
"unfit for purpose", 3 years is a short
life for a fridge/freezer even a frost free one. I'd say 5 years as
minimum, 10+ average, 20+ good.


From memory Hotpoint give 5 years free parts, but I have to pay for
the callout (about £90) It was actually supplied by B&Q as a part of
a new kitchen, so are they my first port of call?


There appears to be just one motor/compressor for the upper fridge and
the lower freezer. If so, how do they get 2 different temperatures?

They rely on the fridge being opened/heat gain and that calling for
coldth, the freezer part is cooled as part of the process hopefully
to low enough temperatures. This is why a fridge/freezer in a place
outside it's design temperature range, say a garage might let the
freezer get to warm because the fridge part doesn't gain enough heat
to trigger the heat pump.

Very poor design - even misleading by the manufacturer!

I appreciate your swift reply here, Dave.

Funny thing - if I have a car problem and post to a forum, I will get
dozens of replies, and spare parts are available easily. White goods
- quite the opposite!

DJ

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:27:37 +0100, David J wrote:

Oh dear.. that sounds expensive.. How do they find a leak? Presumably
it's a pinhole somewhere in the piping? I can see a blue 'copper
sulphate' stain on one joint - could that be it?

Might be, don't know if they put the dye into fridges. Leaks are
rare, brased joints and lack of vibration (compared to a car with
demountable joints and lots of vibration) so probably not. If there
is no chance of that joint getting contamination from somewhere else
it puts the odds up that that is the leak.

Also, would a leak leave a stain on the floor - or simply evaporate?

The refrigerant is a gas at normal temps/pressures. There could be
trace of lubricant/dye.

It was actually supplied by B&Q as a part of a new kitchen, so are they
my first port of call?

That is who you have the contract of sale with, so yes. I'd expect
them to bump you across to Hotpoint though. Have a look on the B&Q
website?

There appears to be just one motor/compressor for the upper
fridge and
the lower freezer. If so, how do they get 2 different
temperatures?

They rely on the fridge being opened/heat gain and that calling
for
coldth, the freezer part is cooled as part of the process
hopefully
to low enough temperatures. This is why a fridge/freezer in a
place
outside it's design temperature range, say a garage might let the
freezer get to warm because the fridge part doesn't gain enough
heat
to trigger the heat pump.

Very poor design - even misleading by the manufacturer!

All fridges, freezers, fridge/freezers etc have a "Class" normally a
letter or combination. It is this that determines the environmental
operating temperature range. I would say it is up to the buyer to
tell the seller where they want to use the device and the seller to
sell them one of suitable class. Unfortunately I doubt many of the
droids in the white goods box shifter places are aware of the various
classes, "It's a 'fridge innit".

Funny thing - if I have a car problem and post to a forum, I will get
dozens of replies, and spare parts are available easily. White goods
- quite the opposite!

This isn't a "forum" it is usenet... I find the opposite, finding
(used) car parts online almost
impossible

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/module...a=showpage&pid
=182

Is a page about refrigeration from a a very good web forum site.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Aug 8, 11:27*am, David J wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:23:57 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:44:57 +0100, David J wrote:

On switch-on, after about 30 seconds the motor/compressor can be heard
running, together with some 'flow' noises. However the rear radiator
produces no heat, and the interior is not chilled at all.

It must have lost refrigerant then. The good news is R600a is
isobutane, and diying that is cheap. The bad news is that it'll leak
out again, and R600a is explosively flammable.

The usual advice with leaks is ditch it, as a slow leak's so hard to
find and fix.



Also, would a leak leave a stain on the floor - or simply evaporate?

The plate states that the refridgerant type is R600a.

its isobutane, like butane

This might be your opportunity to get a much more reliable frosting
freezer.


NT

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:23:57 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:44:57 +0100, David J wrote:

On switch-on, after about 30 seconds the motor/compressor can be heard
running, together with some 'flow' noises. However the rear radiator
produces no heat, and the interior is not chilled at all.

Heat pump not working... As the compressor runs one can only assume
it is out of gas for some reason. How long did you leave it running
to determine that the raditor wasn't getting warm?

A local refridgeration company should be able to re-gas it for you.
How ever if you don't find the leak it will need doing again, and
again, and again.

I have removed a cover from the freezer section, which exposes a
circulation fan, and a finned evaporator.

Frost free freezer, never very reliable. Most (all?) of the problems
reported in here about freezers are related to frost free designs. Is
that much of a chore to defrost the freezer every six months or so?

Have you contacted Hotpoint? What warranty does it have? Even if only
12 months you can still argue "unfit for purpose", 3 years is a short
life for a fridge/freezer even a frost free one. I'd say 5 years as
minimum, 10+ average, 20+ good.

There appears to be just one motor/compressor for the upper fridge and
the lower freezer. If so, how do they get 2 different temperatures?

They rely on the fridge being opened/heat gain and that calling for
coldth, the freezer part is cooled as part of the process hopefully
to low enough temperatures. This is why a fridge/freezer in a place
outside it's design temperature range, say a garage might let the
freezer get to warm because the fridge part doesn't gain enough heat
to trigger the heat pump.

We have a hotpoint frost free, but I can't remember the model number at the
moment. It does *not* rely on the fridge needing cooling to operate the
freezer - the freezer has a thermistor, the fridge has it's own thermistor,
which controls a fan and motorised flap, circulating air over the freezer's
pipework and there is a third thermistor on the pipework; the freezer can
control itself, the fridge loses its heat to the freezer pipework whenever
required (as long as the pipework is reading cool enough) and the
compressor will run to cool the freezer pipework if the pipework is too
warm and the fridge requires cooling. Quite clever really, but the
thermistors are prone to failure - ours lasted about six years, but once I
replaced the faulty one, all has been fine since.

SteveW

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:45:32 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:


There appears to be just one motor/compressor for the upper
fridge and
the lower freezer. If so, how do they get 2 different
temperatures?

They rely on the fridge being opened/heat gain and that calling
for
coldth, the freezer part is cooled as part of the process
hopefully
to low enough temperatures. This is why a fridge/freezer in a
place
outside it's design temperature range, say a garage might let the
freezer get to warm because the fridge part doesn't gain enough
heat
to trigger the heat pump.

Very poor design - even misleading by the manufacturer!

All fridges, freezers, fridge/freezers etc have a "Class" normally a
letter or combination. It is this that determines the environmental
operating temperature range. I would say it is up to the buyer to
tell the seller where they want to use the device and the seller to
sell them one of suitable class. Unfortunately I doubt many of the
droids in the white goods box shifter places are aware of the various
classes, "It's a 'fridge innit".

Thanks for that explanation Dave, which makes sense to me.

By 'misleading', I was referring to the control panel that has 2
discrete temperature-setting controls - one for the fridge and one for
the freezer.

And then to discover that the freezer temperature actually relies on
the fridge door being opened regularly, is misleading, wouldn't you
agree?

Regarding 'topping up' the refrigerant, I can see no obvious access
point that isn't soldered. As the stuff is flammable, do you know how
they get the refill in?

DJ

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 07:46:35 +0100, David J wrote:

By 'misleading', I was referring to the control panel that has 2
discrete temperature-setting controls - one for the fridge and one for
the freezer.

And then to discover that the freezer temperature actually relies on
the fridge door being opened regularly, is misleading, wouldn't you
agree?

A further expansion on frost free designs has been posted; moving
flaps, more to go wrong... Our fridge/freezer (also a Hotpoint) has
two compressors, dual controls and displays but isn't frost free.

Regarding 'topping up' the refrigerant, I can see no obvious access
point that isn't soldered. As the stuff is flammable, do you know how
they get the refill in?

It's quite a process these days, with having to reclaim the
refridgerant (though I would have thought that only applies to
devices using CFCs not butane). Refridgeration enginneers have the
self cutting clamps to put around the pipes, the vacum pump to empty
the system and check for leaks. IIRC they refill via the short stubby
pipe on the compressor, crimp then brase the end of that once the
correct amount of refridgerant has been drawn in.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:15:48 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:23:57 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:44:57 +0100, David J wrote:

On switch-on, after about 30 seconds the motor/compressor can be heard
running, together with some 'flow' noises. However the rear radiator
produces no heat, and the interior is not chilled at all.

Heat pump not working... As the compressor runs one can only assume
it is out of gas for some reason. How long did you leave it running
to determine that the raditor wasn't getting warm?

A local refridgeration company should be able to re-gas it for you.
How ever if you don't find the leak it will need doing again, and
again, and again.

I have removed a cover from the freezer section, which exposes a
circulation fan, and a finned evaporator.

Frost free freezer, never very reliable. Most (all?) of the problems
reported in here about freezers are related to frost free designs. Is
that much of a chore to defrost the freezer every six months or so?

Have you contacted Hotpoint? What warranty does it have? Even if only
12 months you can still argue "unfit for purpose", 3 years is a short
life for a fridge/freezer even a frost free one. I'd say 5 years as
minimum, 10+ average, 20+ good.

There appears to be just one motor/compressor for the upper fridge and
the lower freezer. If so, how do they get 2 different temperatures?

They rely on the fridge being opened/heat gain and that calling for
coldth, the freezer part is cooled as part of the process hopefully
to low enough temperatures. This is why a fridge/freezer in a place
outside it's design temperature range, say a garage might let the
freezer get to warm because the fridge part doesn't gain enough heat
to trigger the heat pump.

We have a hotpoint frost free, but I can't remember the model number at the
moment. It does *not* rely on the fridge needing cooling to operate the
freezer - the freezer has a thermistor, the fridge has it's own thermistor,
which controls a fan and motorised flap, circulating air over the freezer's
pipework and there is a third thermistor on the pipework; the freezer can
control itself, the fridge loses its heat to the freezer pipework whenever
required (as long as the pipework is reading cool enough) and the
compressor will run to cool the freezer pipework if the pipework is too
warm and the fridge requires cooling. Quite clever really, but the
thermistors are prone to failure - ours lasted about six years, but once I
replaced the faulty one, all has been fine since.

SteveW

I think that my Hotpoint FFA 70P is a less sophisticated model than
yours, as I have no motorised flap - simply a fan in the freezer
section behind a removable panel.

I have now spotted a thermistor in the freezer section which I hadn't
noticed before. The sleeved cable to it disappears into the rear
compartment and enters a white plastic component with several small
fridge pipes also entering. No idea what this does!

A fridge guy is coming next week, so I'll report the eventual damage
later.

DJ

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:27:37 +0100, David J
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:23:57 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:44:57 +0100, David J wrote:

On switch-on, after about 30 seconds the motor/compressor can be heard
running, together with some 'flow' noises. However the rear radiator
produces no heat, and the interior is not chilled at all.

Heat pump not working... As the compressor runs one can only assume
it is out of gas for some reason. How long did you leave it running
to determine that the raditor wasn't getting warm?


Ages. I switched the fridge off several times to start all over also.

A local refridgeration company should be able to re-gas it for you.
How ever if you don't find the leak it will need doing again, and
again, and again.

Oh dear.. that sounds expensive.. How do they find a leak? Presumably
it's a pinhole somewhere in the piping? I can see a blue 'copper
sulphate' stain on one joint - could that be it?

On a car a/c system there is a method of using a purple 'marker' to
establish the source of a leak. Is it the same for fridge engineers?

Also, would a leak leave a stain on the floor - or simply evaporate?

The plate states that the refridgerant type is R600a.


I have removed a cover from the freezer section, which exposes a
circulation fan, and a finned evaporator.

Frost free freezer, never very reliable. Most (all?) of the problems
reported in here about freezers are related to frost free designs. Is
that much of a chore to defrost the freezer every six months or so?

Have you contacted Hotpoint?

I'll do that on Monday.

What warranty does it have? Even if only 12 months you can still argue
"unfit for purpose", 3 years is a short
life for a fridge/freezer even a frost free one. I'd say 5 years as
minimum, 10+ average, 20+ good.


From memory Hotpoint give 5 years free parts, but I have to pay for
the callout (about £90) It was actually supplied by B&Q as a part of
a new kitchen, so are they my first port of call?


There appears to be just one motor/compressor for the upper fridge and
the lower freezer. If so, how do they get 2 different temperatures?

They rely on the fridge being opened/heat gain and that calling for
coldth, the freezer part is cooled as part of the process hopefully
to low enough temperatures. This is why a fridge/freezer in a place
outside it's design temperature range, say a garage might let the
freezer get to warm because the fridge part doesn't gain enough heat
to trigger the heat pump.

Very poor design - even misleading by the manufacturer!

I appreciate your swift reply here, Dave.

Funny thing - if I have a car problem and post to a forum, I will get
dozens of replies, and spare parts are available easily. White goods
- quite the opposite!

It's amazing how short a time manufacturers will supply spares for
their white goods, especially those made in the far east (which is
most of them).

Frost-free fridge/freezers are *much* more unreliable than
conventional ones and I would avoid them. Getting a separate fridge
and freezer is always the best way to go if you can.

Frost-free freezers have heaters and extra control circuitry which
often go wrong and are expensive to replace.

--
(\__/) M.
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