I trust the good advice and broad knowledge shown in this forum. Because of this I am asking a question somewhat off topic.

(If anybody knows a better forum for me to go to, please let me know):

I plan to buy a second hand medium size van to move some of my belongings (including furniture and other rather large items) to Spain from London, and to use it as a van in Spain.

My questions a

1. Which makes are good and reliable?

2. Can I keep the van in Spain registered in the UK for an indefinite time? I believe that I may be required to register it in Spain after some time. The problem is that I don't know how long I will stay or need the van in Spain.

3. Can I use the Spanish MOT (called ITV in Spain) to obtain the yearly road license?

Thanks,


Antonio

in 211986 20090706 200127 asalcedo wrote:

2. Can I keep the van in Spain registered in the UK for an indefinite
time? I believe that I may be required to register it in Spain after
some time. The problem is that I don't know how long I will stay in
Spain or need the van in Spain.

You can drive with UK number plates for 12 months, after which the vehicle
must conform to all local regulations.


3. Can I use the Spanish MOT (called ITV in Spain) to obtain the yearly
road license?

You don't need a UK tax disc while in Spain.

(I went through all this when I worked in Germany for a year - I was represented
by my local MEP who was also a lawyer.)

Bob Martin wrote:
in 211986 20090706 200127 asalcedo wrote:

2. Can I keep the van in Spain registered in the UK for an indefinite
time? I believe that I may be required to register it in Spain after
some time. The problem is that I don't know how long I will stay in
Spain or need the van in Spain.

You can drive with UK number plates for 12 months, after which the vehicle
must conform to all local regulations.

3. Can I use the Spanish MOT (called ITV in Spain) to obtain the yearly
road license?

You don't need a UK tax disc while in Spain.

(I went through all this when I worked in Germany for a year - I was represented
by my local MEP who was also a lawyer.)
You will possibly also need to make a SORN declaration over here as well
otherwise you risk being asked to pay UK road tax for the period you
were away and/or a fine too.

I have just been through something similar where I did not tick the
right box on a form when getting a tax refund.
It seems you must have a valid tax disc or a SORN no matter what. They
are totally unforgiving of mistakes.

Bob

asalcedo wrote:
I trust the good advice and broad knowledge shown in this forum. Because
of this I am asking a question a somewhat off topic.

(If anybody knows a better forum for me to go to, please let me know):

I plan to buy a second hand medium size van to move some of my
belongings (including furniture and other rather large items) to Spain
from London and to use it as a van in Spain.

My questions a

1. Which makes are good reliable?

2. Can I keep the van in Spain registered in the UK for an indefinite
time? I believe that I may be required to register it in Spain after
some time. The problem is that I don't know how long I will stay in
Spain or need the van in Spain.

3. Can I use the Spanish MOT (called ITV in Spain) to obtain the yearly
road license?


A friend had a fiat Punto in Italy for 15 years IIRC.. He never taxed it
at all. Just insured it. MOT's? Don't make me laugh..

Insurance is possible.


Thanks,


Antonio

On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:01:56 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:
in 211986 20090706 200127 asalcedo wrote:

2. Can I keep the van in Spain registered in the UK for an indefinite
time? I believe that I may be required to register it in Spain after
some time. The problem is that I don't know how long I will stay in
Spain or need the van in Spain.

You can drive with UK number plates for 12 months, after which the vehicle
must conform to all local regulations.

In some parts of Spain the local police will clamp down. In other parts,
they won't, it's very hit and miss. Sometimes you will get "pulled" if
they recognise your vehicle and it's been in the country for a long period.
Some parts of the country will let you keep the vehicvle there for 12 months
but in other places it could be 3 months - if you don't have proof that you're
getting the vehicle transferred to spanish registration.
Obviously, if the cops don't stop you none of this applies.

The expat forums are full of this kind of question, check out www.andalucia.com
for long, detailed discussions and tales of woe.

3. Can I use the Spanish MOT (called ITV in Spain) to obtain the yearly
road license?

You could also have trouble getting an ITV for a van in Spain, for two reasons.
First of all, the vehicle isn't registered on Spanish plates
Second, the spanish regs. are very tough on RHD commercial vehicles. If it's
a large van they will often fail it due to poor / lack of rear visibility.
(It's also a protectionist ploy, but that's one for the conspiracy people)

You don't need a UK tax disc while in Spain.

Your vehicle _must_ be legal in Spain - or in any country you drive in. Specifically
it must comply with the law whereever it's registered. It must also have insurance
cover that's valid for wherever you are. If your vehicle is registered in the UK,
it must have a tax disc and MOT if necessary. If it's been out of the country and
still registered in the UK and the tax/MOT has expired, it cannot be legal, so you
can't get it insured.
Yes, you can buy an insurance policy, but the company will very likely refuse to
pay out if you make a claim, on the basis that your vehicle isn't legal.
You'll still get a big fine for having an illegal vehicle if the spanish police
don't like your (out of date) documents.

The spanish police are quite hot on the ins and outs of british veicles in
Spain. They regard them all with suspicion. You can't argue with these guys
so make sure you carry all your paperwork (passport, driving licence, insurance,
log book, MOT, return tickets) all the time - and smile sweetly.

(I went through all this when I worked in Germany for a year - I was represented
by my local MEP who was also a lawyer.)

in 212028 20090707 113700 pete wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:01:56 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:
in 211986 20090706 200127 asalcedo wrote:

2. Can I keep the van in Spain registered in the UK for an indefinite
time? I believe that I may be required to register it in Spain after
some time. The problem is that I don't know how long I will stay in
Spain or need the van in Spain.

You can drive with UK number plates for 12 months, after which the vehicle
must conform to all local regulations.

In some parts of Spain the local police will clamp down. In other parts,
they won't, it's very hit and miss. Sometimes you will get "pulled" if
they recognise your vehicle and it's been in the country for a long period.
Some parts of the country will let you keep the vehicvle there for 12 months
but in other places it could be 3 months - if you don't have proof that you're
getting the vehicle transferred to spanish registration.
Obviously, if the cops don't stop you none of this applies.

The expat forums are full of this kind of question, check out www.andalucia.com
for long, detailed discussions and tales of woe.

3. Can I use the Spanish MOT (called ITV in Spain) to obtain the yearly
road license?

You could also have trouble getting an ITV for a van in Spain, for two reasons.
First of all, the vehicle isn't registered on Spanish plates
Second, the spanish regs. are very tough on RHD commercial vehicles. If it's
a large van they will often fail it due to poor / lack of rear visibility.
(It's also a protectionist ploy, but that's one for the conspiracy people)

You don't need a UK tax disc while in Spain.

Your vehicle _must_ be legal in Spain - or in any country you drive in. Specifically
it must comply with the law whereever it's registered. It must also have insurance
cover that's valid for wherever you are. If your vehicle is registered in the UK,
it must have a tax disc and MOT if necessary. If it's been out of the country and
still registered in the UK and the tax/MOT has expired, it cannot be legal, so you
can't get it insured.
Yes, you can buy an insurance policy, but the company will very likely refuse to
pay out if you make a claim, on the basis that your vehicle isn't legal.
You'll still get a big fine for having an illegal vehicle if the spanish police
don't like your (out of date) documents.

The spanish police are quite hot on the ins and outs of british veicles in
Spain. They regard them all with suspicion. You can't argue with these guys
so make sure you carry all your paperwork (passport, driving licence, insurance,
log book, MOT, return tickets) all the time - and smile sweetly.

(I went through all this when I worked in Germany for a year - I was represented
by my local MEP who was also a lawyer.)

That was not my experience. The police said I had to report to the local Tüv station
(German MOT) where they would give me a report on how my car failed to meet German
regulations. While I was in the waiting room the solicitor assigned to me by my employer
(IBM) - she was also the MEP - turned up and she and the garage manager retired to
a room where all the legal books were kept. They found EU legislation which said the
German police couldn't touch me until I had been there for 12 months, and I was given
a letter by the solicitor to show to any police who stopped me.
I checked with Swansea and they said I didn't need a tax disc if I was not using UK roads.

On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:04:29 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:

That was not my experience. The police said I had to report to the local Tüv station
(German MOT) where they would give me a report on how my car failed to meet German
regulations. While I was in the waiting room the solicitor assigned to me by my employer
(IBM) - she was also the MEP - turned up and she and the garage manager retired to
a room where all the legal books were kept. They found EU legislation which said the
German police couldn't touch me until I had been there for 12 months, and I was given
a letter by the solicitor to show to any police who stopped me.
I checked with Swansea and they said I didn't need a tax disc if I was not using UK roads.

I'm not denying your experience _in_ _Germany_. However, Germany is not Spain - and
Spain is 17 autonomous regions (rather like Wales and Scotland are to the United Kingdom)
each one with their own local laws and regultaions.

The practical situation, in 2009, for an individual who has neither the money or legal
representation of a multi-billion dollar company behind them, nor the time to go through
european law is very different.
If the local police don't like your paperwork - whether it ultimately turns out to be
legal or not: under their local laws, spanish national law or european law, is largely
immaterial - you will probably get fined. You may even get towed. Waving your arms
(metaphorically) and yelling at them in english won't help your situation, either.

The best thing to do is try to prevent the possibililty, by having everything in
order, making sure there are no external reasons (damage, faults, lack of or outdated
tax disk), and not ****ing-off the men with guns.

That was not my experience. The police said I had to report to the
local Tüv station (German MOT) where they would give me a report on
how my car failed to meet German regulations. While I was in the
waiting room the solicitor assigned to me by my employer (IBM) - she
was also the MEP - turned up and she and the garage manager retired
to
a room where all the legal books were kept. They found EU
legislation which said the German police couldn't touch me until I
had been there for 12 months, and I was given
a letter by the solicitor to show to any police who stopped me.
I checked with Swansea and they said I didn't need a tax disc if I
was not using UK roads.

Do you happen to have that letter still or a reference to the Directive
as everything I've ever seen limits the use of a car registered in
another member state to 6 months and then only if the keeper is not
resident in the UK. See eg
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...le/DG_10014623
--
R

"asalcedo" wrote in message
...

I trust the good advice and broad knowledge shown in this forum. Because
of this I am asking a question a somewhat off topic.

(If anybody knows a better forum for me to go to, please let me know):

I plan to buy a second hand medium size van to move some of my
belongings (including furniture and other rather large items) to Spain
from London and to use it as a van in Spain.

My questions a

1. Which makes are good reliable?

Several people I know who have extensive experience recommend Transits. They
also have the advantage that spares wil be available almost anywhere.

Colin Bignell

asalcedo wrote:
I trust the good advice and broad knowledge shown in this forum. Because
of this I am asking a question a somewhat off topic.


3. Can I use the Spanish MOT (called ITV in Spain) to obtain the yearly
road license?


I recently chatted to a motorhome owner who was going back to England
(we were in France) to get it MOTed because his insurance company said
they would refuse to pay out if it had any other kind of test, including
an ITV.

Another Dave

Another Dave gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

I trust the good advice and broad knowledge shown in this forum.
Because of this I am asking a question a somewhat off topic.

3. Can I use the Spanish MOT (called ITV in Spain) to obtain the yearly
road license?

I recently chatted to a motorhome owner who was going back to England
(we were in France) to get it MOTed because his insurance company said
they would refuse to pay out if it had any other kind of test, including
an ITV.

It's on UK plates, so be legal on the roads in any EU country, it must
have UK tax, UK insurance (covering the country it's being used in), and
a UK MOT if it's over 3yo, and it must be registered to a valid UK
address that the keeper can be contacted at. Most non-EU countries will
require similar.

If it's in that country for more than a few months, or the keeper is
permanently resident in that country, it must be registered in that
country.

It's really not a difficult concept, and it's _exactly_ the same as for
vehicles registered in other EU countries but used in the UK.

In message , Bob Martin
writes
in 211986 20090706 200127 asalcedo wrote:

2. Can I keep the van in Spain registered in the UK for an indefinite
time? I believe that I may be required to register it in Spain after
some time. The problem is that I don't know how long I will stay in
Spain or need the van in Spain.

You can drive with UK number plates for 12 months, after which the vehicle
must conform to all local regulations.

I thought you just had to move out of the country and then back in again
- that's the principle I worked on when I lived in Germany - the vehicle
has to leave the country's border - you can then bring it in again



3. Can I use the Spanish MOT (called ITV in Spain) to obtain the yearly
road license?

You don't need a UK tax disc while in Spain.

(I went through all this when I worked in Germany for a year - I was
represented
by my local MEP who was also a lawyer.)

You do, however, need valid insurance. Make sure you comply with their
requirements


--
geoff

in 212039 20090707 123154 pete wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:04:29 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:

That was not my experience. The police said I had to report to the local Tüv station
(German MOT) where they would give me a report on how my car failed to meet German
regulations. While I was in the waiting room the solicitor assigned to me by my employer
(IBM) - she was also the MEP - turned up and she and the garage manager retired to
a room where all the legal books were kept. They found EU legislation which said the
German police couldn't touch me until I had been there for 12 months, and I was given
a letter by the solicitor to show to any police who stopped me.
I checked with Swansea and they said I didn't need a tax disc if I was not using UK roads.

I'm not denying your experience _in_ _Germany_. However, Germany is not Spain - and
Spain is 17 autonomous regions (rather like Wales and Scotland are to the United Kingdom)
each one with their own local laws and regultaions.

Nevertheless, European law overrides national law.

in 212050 20090707 142525 "neverwas" wrote:
That was not my experience. The police said I had to report to the
local Tüv station (German MOT) where they would give me a report on
how my car failed to meet German regulations. While I was in the
waiting room the solicitor assigned to me by my employer (IBM) - she
was also the MEP - turned up and she and the garage manager retired
to
a room where all the legal books were kept. They found EU
legislation which said the German police couldn't touch me until I
had been there for 12 months, and I was given
a letter by the solicitor to show to any police who stopped me.
I checked with Swansea and they said I didn't need a tax disc if I
was not using UK roads.

Do you happen to have that letter still or a reference to the Directive
as everything I've ever seen limits the use of a car registered in
another member state to 6 months and then only if the keeper is not
resident in the UK. See eg
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...le/DG_10014623

No, sorry, the letter is long gone. From reading your link the law may have changed since
I was in Germany. Assuming the link is correct.

On Jul 7, 11:37*am, pete wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:01:56 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:
in 211986 20090706 200127 asalcedo wrote:

2. Can I keep the van in Spain registered in the UK for an indefinite
time? I believe that I may be required to register it in Spain after
some time. The problem is that I don't know how long I will stay in
Spain or need the van in Spain.

You can drive with UK number plates for 12 months, after which the vehicle
must conform to all local regulations.

In some parts of Spain the local police will clamp down. In other parts,
they won't, it's very hit and miss. Sometimes you will get "pulled" if
they recognise your vehicle and it's been in the country for a long period.
Some parts of the country will let you keep the vehicvle there for 12 months
but in other places it could be 3 months - if you don't have proof that you're
getting the vehicle transferred to spanish registration.
Obviously, if the cops don't stop you none of this applies.


Unless you have a crash perhaps?

Robert

Thank you all for your inputs.

It looks like the best bet is to consider a UK Van in Spain as a temporary arrangement. The Van should be registered in Spain if it is going to stay there for long.