Arrg. Too many options...

I need one underground 15mm copper to 25mm MDPE union and one 22mm copper
(or 3/4" BSP) to 25mm MDPE union.

JG Speedfit say their ones are no good underground.

Another says "do not use where end loading is possible".

Another suggests that you need 25-22 reducers before you can use the bunch
of washers and widgets.

All I need are simple, buriable robust adaptors.

Any recommendations?

Ta

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Arrg. Too many options...

I need one underground 15mm copper to 25mm MDPE union and one 22mm
copper
(or 3/4" BSP) to 25mm MDPE union.

JG Speedfit say their ones are no good underground.

Another says "do not use where end loading is possible".

Another suggests that you need 25-22 reducers before you can use the
bunch
of washers and widgets.

All I need are simple, buriable robust adaptors.

Any recommendations?

Ta

Tim



Personally I wouldn't put straight copper pipe underground. I'd bring
it into the building and convert to copper indoors where the risk of
corrosion is much reduced. Beware of brass underground fittings - the
zinc is leached out (dezincification) - use the mnore expensive bronze
ones.

AWEM

On May 31, 9:57*pm, Tim S wrote:
Arrg. Too many options...

I need one underground 15mm copper to 25mm MDPE union and one 22mm copper
(or 3/4" BSP) to 25mm MDPE union.

JG Speedfit say their ones are no good underground.

Another says "do not use where end loading is possible".

Another suggests that you need 25-22 reducers before you can use the bunch
of washers and widgets.

All I need are simple, buriable robust adaptors.

Any recommendations?

Ta

Tim

Toolstation have a decent selection of stuff. One option is the
universal adaptors which replace a nut on their coupler:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum.../sd2729/p77932

As I remember they replace a nut a size bigger than you'd expect, so
the 15mm goes on a 25mm fitting, the 22mm needs a 32mm.

They also do MDPE to BSP fittings which would be simpler as long as
you're happy burying a compression to bsp fitting.

A

Andrew Mawson coughed up some electrons that declared:



Personally I wouldn't put straight copper pipe underground. I'd bring
it into the building and convert to copper indoors where the risk of
corrosion is much reduced. Beware of brass underground fittings - the
zinc is leached out (dezincification) - use the mnore expensive bronze
ones.

AWEM

Hi Andrew,

The copper is already underground - it's the main supply, in plastic covered
15mm copper.

The MDPE is a rerouted section for a new incoming position. Down the line,
when I have a digger, I plan to take the MDPE all the way to the road,
where the water company say they will happily connect it to my cock for
free.

I'm taking the chance to plan for upgrading the pipe bore at the same time.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
Arrg. Too many options...

I need one underground 15mm copper to 25mm MDPE union and one 22mm copper
(or 3/4" BSP) to 25mm MDPE union.

JG Speedfit say their ones are no good underground.

Another says "do not use where end loading is possible".

Another suggests that you need 25-22 reducers before you can use the bunch
of washers and widgets.

All I need are simple, buriable robust adaptors.

Any recommendations?

Ta

Tim



BES any good?

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/168.asp

Dave Osborne coughed up some electrons that declared:

BES any good?

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/168.asp

Yes - that looks interesting. Thanks Dave

Cheers

Tim

coughed up some electrons that declared:

Toolstation have a decent selection of stuff. One option is the
universal adaptors which replace a nut on their coupler:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum.../sd2729/p77932

As I remember they replace a nut a size bigger than you'd expect, so
the 15mm goes on a 25mm fitting, the 22mm needs a 32mm.

OK. Thanks for that. I'm veering either towards teh BES fitting,

or this:

They also do MDPE to BSP fittings which would be simpler as long as
you're happy burying a compression to bsp fitting.

Subject to Andrew's warning about dezincification of brass, I also like this
idea.

I will be putting a tiny inspection doobrey over this joint anyway as it's
right next to the house and if it fails, I want to know about it (rather
than waiting for the house to fall over).

Cheers

Tim

The message
from Tim S contains these words:


The MDPE is a rerouted section for a new incoming position. Down the line,
when I have a digger, I plan to take the MDPE all the way to the road,
where the water company say they will happily connect it to my cock for
free.

Sounds a bit painful :-)

Thanks for the advice.

Having obtained a couple of transition MDPE adaptors from BES and a short
roll of 25mm MDPE from B&Q, all is clear.

Turns out I'm not jointing to copper underground...

We dug the hole out today. 1 yard down, 2.5ft x 2.5ft. Could we find the
pipe - buggery we could...

Dug (well undermined) the side of the hole and found one rusty iron pipe
(prob old water) and one black electricity cable at 0.4m depth (so I
thought - read on)...

So we dug next to where blue copper pipe comes up (1 yard further down the
path). Found it there - 400mm down. Dig a bit more, and found a brass joint
in self amalgamating tape, where the short bit of newish copper changed to
some black plastic stuff...

Back to the "electricity cable" - quick diameter measurement with vernier
doobrey confirmed that muddy black thing was in fact the water pipe, not
the cable.

OK - good. We have pipe in the correct new hole. A call to SE Water's
technical dept suggested the pipe was probably 1/2" black polyethylene
(PE). Good, my MDPE transitional adaptor does PE.

----

Managed to core drill (66mm) a very neat hole down through the floor inside
the house, and with a bit of help from a 1m SDS drill, and more core
cutting, we got through the strip foundation and into a small hole we'd
burrowed under the foundation, from the bloody big hole outside. Result...

I should add that in the older part of the house, our strip foundation
concrete starts 2" below ground and stops about 8" underground. It sits on
earth, not clay.

Apparantly my house should have fallen down years ago...

Anyway, we can easily get a 110 rest bend under the house and I plan to pop
a bit of 50mm waste pipe down from above to form a sealed duct into the 110
and add a bit of extra 110 pipe on the outside into a little brick
inspection pit and dump the joint in that. Makes it easy to re-lay the pipe
from the house in future...

Photos will come...

Cheers

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the advice.

Having obtained a couple of transition MDPE adaptors from BES and a
short
roll of 25mm MDPE from B&Q, all is clear.

Turns out I'm not jointing to copper underground...

We dug the hole out today. 1 yard down, 2.5ft x 2.5ft. Could we find
the
pipe - buggery we could...

Dug (well undermined) the side of the hole and found one rusty iron
pipe
(prob old water) and one black electricity cable at 0.4m depth (so I
thought - read on)...

So we dug next to where blue copper pipe comes up (1 yard further
down the
path). Found it there - 400mm down. Dig a bit more, and found a
brass joint
in self amalgamating tape, where the short bit of newish copper
changed to
some black plastic stuff...

Back to the "electricity cable" - quick diameter measurement with
vernier
doobrey confirmed that muddy black thing was in fact the water pipe,
not
the cable.

OK - good. We have pipe in the correct new hole. A call to SE
Water's
technical dept suggested the pipe was probably 1/2" black
polyethylene
(PE). Good, my MDPE transitional adaptor does PE.

----

Managed to core drill (66mm) a very neat hole down through the floor
inside
the house, and with a bit of help from a 1m SDS drill, and more core
cutting, we got through the strip foundation and into a small hole
we'd
burrowed under the foundation, from the bloody big hole outside.
Result...

I should add that in the older part of the house, our strip
foundation
concrete starts 2" below ground and stops about 8" underground. It
sits on
earth, not clay.

Apparantly my house should have fallen down years ago...

Anyway, we can easily get a 110 rest bend under the house and I plan
to pop
a bit of 50mm waste pipe down from above to form a sealed duct into
the 110
and add a bit of extra 110 pipe on the outside into a little brick
inspection pit and dump the joint in that. Makes it easy to re-lay
the pipe
from the house in future...

Photos will come...

Cheers

Tim

The black polythene water pipe went out of fashion in about 1984 if I
remember correctly, so your pipe pre-dates that.

AWEM

Andrew Mawson coughed up some electrons that declared:


The black polythene water pipe went out of fashion in about 1984 if I
remember correctly, so your pipe pre-dates that.


That's interesting - I thought the water main had been replaced in the late
90's.

Perhaps the end had merely been moved hence the weirdy underground joint to
copper...

On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:53:42 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
had this to say:

The black polythene water pipe went out of fashion in about 1984 if I
remember correctly,

I wonder why. My black polyethylene feed pipe was fitted around 1972
and hasn't given any trouble (at least in the last 26 years that I've
owned the place).

--
Frank Erskine

Tim S coughed up some electrons that declared:

Arrg. Too many options...

I need one underground 15mm copper to 25mm MDPE union and one 22mm copper
(or 3/4" BSP) to 25mm MDPE union.

JG Speedfit say their ones are no good underground.

Another says "do not use where end loading is possible".

Another suggests that you need 25-22 reducers before you can use the bunch
of washers and widgets.

All I need are simple, buriable robust adaptors.

Any recommendations?

Ta

Tim


Righty ho...

Done the job:

Inside the house, 25mm MDPE to 22mm copper stopcock is done with
http://www.bes.co.uk/products/168.asp part number 11330

Very pleasing and simple and slim (ish).

First solder the brass 22mm tail into a solder coupler and a bit of 22mm
pipe on the other side. Lots of heat needed but easy with a normal
blowtorch.

Then insert copper insert into MDPE pipe, nut and olive on outside, assemble
and do up *very* tight (it's a big olive and needs some welly).

Result - a very neat joint. Stick compression stopcock on the end.


MDPE to 1/2 inch PE: same page, part 13544.

Potentially easy (that thing has a bloody big doughnut o-ring in it - it
would joint to anything, as it in fact claims to. Main difficulty is doing
the extra 1/8 turn after hand tight on the MDPE and the extra 1/2 turn on
the other side. You need a strap wrench (or risk stilson chewing the
plastic up). Still a bugger to hold the fitting though - used pump pliers,
seemed to manage without wholesale destruction.

Not recommended for internal connection to copper - it would work, but it is
*huge*!

Pressure teested to 10.75bar (used one of those pushfit jobbies:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/72940/...ssure-Test-Kit

with the pathetic 4 bar guage swapped out for an 11 bar one off this:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/82412/...ure-Test-Gauge

Nearly blew up the footpump, obviously advised helper to stay out of the
firing line of any bits that may becomed detatched.

But it held pressure for 5 minutes, so that's good enough - and more or less
satisfied the "test to 150% of working pressure" recommendation of the
MDPE-random-crap-adaptor (water pressure is 7.5 bar).

We now also know that the road stop cock turns off properly as we were
pressure testing against that!

Stuck the full bore lever valve and pressure reducing device on. Cursed
trying to get everything to line up.

Mounted the stack on 3 mentally strong solid brass "hospital" saddle pipe
clamps, packed off the wal with thick square building style plate washers
to line up with the MDPE clip and hole in floor.

Going to retest tomorrow and test the throughput of the PRV to see if it
buggers up our flow rate (40l/min without) or not.


Cheers

Tim

Tim S coughed up some electrons that declared:

Arrg. Too many options...

I need one underground 15mm copper to 25mm MDPE union and one 22mm copper
(or 3/4" BSP) to 25mm MDPE union.

JG Speedfit say their ones are no good underground.

Another says "do not use where end loading is possible".

Another suggests that you need 25-22 reducers before you can use the bunch
of washers and widgets.

All I need are simple, buriable robust adaptors.

Any recommendations?

Ta

Tim


On an aside,

I used one of these as my PRV:

http://www.hav.co.uk/products/shw-de...13086&cid=1099

Just done some flow measurements. My system is new-ish cock in the road
(blue water meter type witout the meter), 1/2 inch PE black pipe for about
15m to the house, jointed by me into 1.5m 25mm MDPE then into a 1/4 turn
full bore lever valve (inside cock) then into the above PRV. Static
pressure of mains is 7.5 bar.

For testing, I stuck a bit of U shaped 22mm copper onto the top pointing
down at a 14l bucket and timed the fills.

Flow rate is 50l/min regardless of pressure setting, everywhere between 2
bar to 6 bar (the limits of the PRV, more or less).

Not sure I'm going to bother with upgrading the main to the road now. I
think I have a more than adequate flow for my heatbank with direct hot
water

I'll keep all of my end in 22mm until the final drops to each usage point,
and do those in 15mm.

Also, 4 bar seems a nice setting. Good hose jet and doesn't blow the taps
off! And seems to regulate the pressure OK at 4 bar even with a tap going
full blast.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
I used one of these as my PRV:

http://www.hav.co.uk/products/shw-de...13086&cid=1099

Just done some flow measurements. My system is new-ish cock in the road
(blue water meter type witout the meter), 1/2 inch PE black pipe for about
15m to the house, jointed by me into 1.5m 25mm MDPE then into a 1/4 turn
full bore lever valve (inside cock) then into the above PRV. Static
pressure of mains is 7.5 bar.

I'm using one of these Caleffi valves at the moment to reduce the water
feed into the caravan we're living in (whilst our extension is done)
down to 1 bar so the plumbing doesn't blow. You can pick them up on ebay
for about 10 quid.

Tim S coughed up some electrons that declared:

Arrg. Too many options...

I need one underground 15mm copper to 25mm MDPE union and one 22mm copper
(or 3/4" BSP) to 25mm MDPE union.

JG Speedfit say their ones are no good underground.

Another says "do not use where end loading is possible".

Another suggests that you need 25-22 reducers before you can use the bunch
of washers and widgets.

All I need are simple, buriable robust adaptors.

Any recommendations?

Ta

Tim

And here are the photos:

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu..._0019.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu..._0016.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu..._0017.jpg.html

Cheers

Tim

In article , Tim S
writes

Mounted the stack on 3 mentally strong solid brass "hospital" saddle pipe
clamps, packed off the wal with thick square building style plate washers
to line up with the MDPE clip and hole in floor.

Forgive me, you've clearly put a lot of thought and effort into this,
but it's not exactly, um, pretty is it? Do you plan to hide it behind
some kitchen cabinets, or... ?

--
(\__/)
(='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png

Mike Tomlinson coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article , Tim S
writes

Mounted the stack on 3 mentally strong solid brass "hospital" saddle pipe
clamps, packed off the wal with thick square building style plate washers
to line up with the MDPE clip and hole in floor.

Forgive me, you've clearly put a lot of thought and effort into this,
but it's not exactly, um, pretty is it? Do you plan to hide it behind
some kitchen cabinets, or... ?


Indeed.

And excuse me - it is *very* pretty - all polished up and everything. I'd
marry it... ;-

That position was chosen specifically so that little lot can go into the
back of a cupboard. A stand alone cupboard to boot, to the right of the
cooker, which means that in the worst case, I could remove the cupboard for
better access if I needed to do serious work.

But the components are aligned such that normal maintenance like changing
teh PRV cartridge can be done from the right side and I doubt it would be
hard to swap a new cock in. The MDPE has enough slop to drop down an inch
if required.

The only bugger is directly above there is an arse load of timberwork, so I
may have to bend the riser pipe and route to the right (chrome time).

Cheers

Tim